KAG:

I'm going to go with a different tack about his letter.

You have been told that it's his invitation to the children to get sucked into his affair world.

There is some truth to that, and maybe a whole lot.

However, and this is my different tack:

He states pretty plainly in that letter what was wrong in your marriage and why he ended up in his affair.

He stated pretty clearly what his emotional needs are.

He even gave you the road map back.

And you can be angry and upset, and you deserve to be, but you need to be the clear headed one here and work the PLAN.

There is plenty Blah, Blah, Blah in that letter.

But instead of picking out the Blah Blah, lets look at what he DID SAY.



There is rewriting marital history here, in spades, but also, he admitting that he wasn't working with you any more. And you probably had alot of other things going on in your life didn't you? Homeschooling, the special needs son? Not much time for Husband and wife, right?



EVERYONE wants to avoid pain and conflict. This was a GUY writing this? WOW! He is taking the easy way out. Because recovery is HARD.

However, this line in particular: "I needed to receive approval and acceptance from others" Bing! Emotional Need.... ADMIRATION. That's what I wanted to point out. His admiration EN might have been getting abused for a long time.


This is just Unbridled WW MUSH. 'nuff said.


His EN's just were not getting met. So, he withdrew from you. And this is the proverbial circular drain, round and round and down it goes.

Then someone threw him a lifeline, and he stupidly took it.


If he did try to do something about the wall, he would get his fingers snapped. So, he stopped reaching out. His fault. Honesty and openess. HE didn't feel that he could offer that. In 20 years of marriage both partners in marriage can get stuck in thier ways. You live your life, and he lives his. Round and round we go.....

The OW presented him with a blank slate, someone that he FELT he could be open and honest with. (His reference to breaking down the wall he constructed) Been There, Done That. I can relate to where your WH is.

The differnece is, I found a way to reconcile with my wife.

She is not the same as she was prior to DDay, and neither am I.

THAT is the enviornment needed to recover the marriage.

Destroy the old habits and behaviors that created so much distance between the two of you.

Is it too late? No.

You state you have been counseling with SH. That is excellent. What is HIS take on this? What was HIS take on your and your H relationship since DDay?

You state you were in Plan A while trying to counsel. Your H continued his A during this time, so your full efforts were not rewarded. Reevaluate that time and reflect on your own behaviors during that time. That isn't a critisim, you could have been Mother Teresa, and a WH active in his A will not see it. But really put your noggin on that.

You can save this.

He doesn't like the Plan B efforts you have put in so far. So get better at it.

Please call the OWH. That should be an interesting conversation. One you NEED to have. That conversation may propel your marriage closer to recovery than anything else that might happen in the next two weeks.

Nothing else in your WH letter was worth addressing....

That's my take. Something for you to ponder. Your Husband went away, and he CAN come back. You just have to pop him out of the mothership.

LG

I agree with LG that the letter can be used to better understand his thinking. The most compelling thing to me is how he plans on rationalizing his adultery to his children. If left to his own devices that is exactly how he would tell his kids.

KAG, I remembered later last night that you told your H he had to tell the boys himself. Is this why he gave you that letter? '

If that is the reason, do you see now why I didn't think it was a good idea for him to tell them? If that happens, they will never get the truth....and your boys will be dragged into his affair unawares.

KAG:

As an aside, I agree with Mel. Talk to your children.

THey need to know WHY Daddy moved out.

And the real truth.

LG

Good morning K, how are you today? How'd the talk with the boys go last night?

Please tell me you talked with the boys. You know you have to before H does, right?

K, I know this is hard. I know because I Know I KNOW! I've done it both ways - I've sugar-coated why Daddy is gone, some crap about "mommy & daddy just need time apart" and "Hey, your dad's choices aren't healthy, for him OR us. He can come home, once he _____" I'll tell you they were both equally difficult to deliver, but the results of them knowing the TRUTH are much more healthy for us all.

Also, FYI, though it's hard to digest, please know that the fact you've got Mel & LG posting to you is a GREAT help. They know their stuff, they've been around, and at times are only available by way of MB fog-horn. So please, heed their advice! Keep posting...we're holding your hand!!!

LG,

Thanks so much for such a thoughtful reply. Bascially we were in Plan A since the summer. He was supposedly NC. HE stopped with SH right around when he broke the NC. I didn't know about it. I worked my ars off on plan A, he DID NOT.

He even said on the last night, "I don't know why I am doing this, you have been great"

He NEEDS an explanation to his behavior. First it was 'destiny' and all this new age spiritual crap. Now it is psychobabble excuses for the affair. What happened to I SCREWED UP and I am sorry?????

I can't get over how he is GRATEFUL to the OW. That one has sent me to my attorney. This is NOT the person I married nor one I want in my life.

We absolutely grew apart. My youngest son had 20 surgeries, 9 in the first year of his life. Who handles most of it....me! Now who seems to be blamed for this mess...me!



Believe me I tried during plan A



He says plan B and protect yourself. It is a crap shoot. My work wasn't being recieved by WH since he was back in A.


I am desperately trying. I am going to hire a PI to find where he works. I can't get through on the phone. I mailed him a letter. I will have the PI look for her mother as well. Don't know if I should blow the work cover since we need his income and ins.



Seems impossible at this point. Refusing to see him and talk to him really makes him want to come back? I am having trouble with this concept other than it helps me not to see him....

LG,

PS...

I can't imagine going back to Plan A with him when he never did the work before. He did not protect me(obviously), resented any and all of SH's advice. My heart was broken again when he betrayed me again!

Kag:

About this:

As I said, nothing else in the letter was worth commenting about.

This is Fog-babble for the waywards to make themselves feel better...."Life will be GREAT after the Divorce and we will be one big happy...." PUKE.

They FORGET something. THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO ALONG WITH THE FANTASY.

Cause that's all it is.

Ok.

Now, to your real issue as I see it.

You are carrying ALOT of resentment around because you had to take care of your DS8.

That has been ALOT of work. Work you did yourself. (20 surgeries, another one with 3 months of recovery coming up...)

Homeschooling, and giving it ALL for your children.

And Husband was off at work, right?

He never really showed you the appreciation for all the things you were doing, and vice versa.

And he never got the appreciation he needed for working, providing the home and the ability for you to stay home, home school and GIVE the care to DS8 that he NEEDED.


And guess what? By divorcing him, your giving him the permanant get out of jail card.

YOU will be stuck with all the boys care.
YOU will be without a Husband.
HE will be partying with his OW.
YOU will not be able to go to work, and therefore dependent on WH for Alimony or child support.
HE becomes the One night a week and every other weekend Dad to his kids. Which will diminish over time.

Personally, I recommend that YOU TURN the TABLES on HIM. Make the BOYS HIS RESPONSIBILITY.

Send him a letter....(this is a VERY rough Draft...)

On Tuesday, I will drop off DS8 with all his equipment and attachments, along with DS11, and you can return them on Thurday evening. I will be OUT. You can have the BOYS again on FRIDAY Night and return them Monday Morning. Once again, I will not be available. This will be the future agreement. Home schooling will occur on Monday, Tuesday and Friday. The rest of the time, they are WH responsibility.

You get the point. You CAN get a job, and support yourself. He found someone new. You find a new life too, but he's stuck with the old life, not YOU.

Time for him to shoulder his responsibilty for the BOYS. ALL of it. But seems that HE can expect you to be with the KIDS ALL THE TIME. So, IF he doesn't want you anymore, than the boys become his responsibility.

Really BLOWS up the fantasy of the Affair.

And please, DO NOT knee jerk react and think: "I CAN'T GIVE UP MY BOYS!"

Your WH has. And he likes that world. It will ROCK his WORLD, if he thought that he can have his freedom from YOU, but NOT THE BOYS....And that OW will be the New Mommy...She's ready to sign up for that, isn't SHE?

Remember, WH is thinking.... I'll get 50/50 custody with the kids, so no CS. We'll sell the house, and I can take that money to go with OW, No Alimony, because, well most people don't pay that anymore, DS11 can go to regular school, and DS8, well maybe he can TOO, and KAG is going to probably get a job anyway, so NO alimony, OW works and she can really help with the bills, and SHE will probably get CS from her BH, then we can stucture it so that NONE of the kids are around that often...WOW, and since KAG is NICE, we will get along and everything will be GREAT...

BLOW UP that fantasy....

Do not agree to anything that would adversely affect your custody rights without talking to a lawyer, BUT, I think that a letter stating that the terms would be HE gets the boys full time, except when homeschooling, will JUST destroy his fantasy.

The counselling sessions with SH? Since your H was still activly involved in his A, then the sessions may have helped you, but WH was punching the clock. "See, I tried, I went to counselling and everything!" "But it just didn't work"

Just my take. Kind of harsh, I know, but you REALLY need to wake him up.

LG

LG,
Have you been a fly on the wall? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> You almost got to a T.

What makes it worse is that WH is thinking "her parents are independently wealthy and she won't have to get a job, they will take care of them....."

However we also have the money to hire a [email]kick-a@@[/email] attorney and he WILL pay alimony and child support.

A lot of our counseling session with MC (not SH) were about resentment and responsibility. One MC called me the dominatrix and WH the [email]F@@#-up[/email] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I am such a swirl of emotions I shouldn't make any decisions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> And actually I love being around my boys and would take them full time if that what it comes to. His loss. I think am ready to let WH go and make a better life for myself...but my heart aches most days.

On the 20th you attempted via Itermediary to contact OWH.

Within minutes....OW contacted your WH who then contacted Intermediary.

They are very much IN CONTACT....This is not "NC"...

And the reason they want to keep you away from OWH...is because he likely knows NOTHING about this affair.

You have got to stop protecting his secrets.

Tell your kids.
And tell OWH.

Hire the PI if you have to.

KAG,

I understand where you are coming from. I was more than willing to keep my kids full time. In fact, I would have preferred that, because FWS was so full of babble that he was twisting Scripture and causing them to become confused about all that we had taught them from birth.

I refused to LET FWS be involved in our lives any more that was required...I allowed him every other weekend. That was it. He kept trying to see them during the week, but I stood my ground. He did not expect me to handle things that way. He thought that I would see his being heavily involved as a good thing for the kids. This had a BIG impact on FWS.

BUT my FWS was a very involved father all along. So it really hit him to see what his life would be like divorced. If your WS has never been involved, then perhaps pushing a lot of the burden onto him, might impact him. However, I would caution you to consider what your end desire for custody would be if you do divorce. Because what you accept NOW, will influence the judge's decision later. My lawyer told me that if I allowed FWS to take the kids during the week, I would be setting myself to be required to do that permanently, and would have more of a co-parent arrangement instead of full custody (which I wanted if we divorced.)

Also, DO NOT get a job right now. My lawyer advised me that I should not change my income status AT ALL because it WOULD affect child support later. I had been home teaching children since the beginning (oldest is 17).

KAG, PLEASE, PLEASE tell your children. If you need help with the wording, I will help you. It CAN be done gently and lovingly and without bashing WS but still behing honest.

Kag:

About this line:


If that's how the counseling sessions went, and that was the general result, and you didn't think that it was so bad, then cut your best financial deal and let him go.

Get the biggest screwdriver you can and run him thru with it. Because it was all his fault.

And go on with your life.

It's easier that way.

KAG:

List for me the top five reasons you would like to remain married to your current husband.

Then list for me the top ten reasons your ready to kick him to the curb.

Then list for me the top ten reasons you married him 19 years ago.

And then lets explore the differences in these lists. Ok?

LG

LG,
You really cut to the chase....


I still love him
He is a good father
He has a great outlook on life
We enjoy the same things and have the same goals and the same spirituality
He is like a part of me



He slept with someone else
He lied to me
He lied to me
He lied to me
He isn't who I married
He isn't taking responsibility for his actions
He is using spirituality to justify his actions
He is using psychobabble to justify his actions
He wasn't there for me when I really needed him
He invalidates my feelings
I can never trust him
My friends and family now despise him



I was physically attracted to him
I felt good about myself with him pursuing me
He was spontaneous
He had high energy
He had a zest for life
He lifted me higher than my normal state
I thought he would be there for me when I needed him
He was driven to meet his goals
There was an energenic magnetic pull to him
He challanged all my preconceptions and made me grow
I thought he was my 'soulmate', I thought this was love


Now I wonder if it is the time to let go...the relationship has served its purpose and it is time to go our separate ways.

My mantra has been let go and let God...

A lot of drama has happened in the past 2 days! I probably have screwed up plan B royally.

My WH emailed the intermediary saying he wants another chance and misses me, has been staying with a friend...blah blah.

I can not reach OWH, called, sent a letter. I don't think he wants to talk to me. Verified that OW and OWh are are in 2 different apts. They have a baby that is less than 2 years old!!! Which means she was only a year when the affair started. All I would have been thinking about is my child not some other man...what is wrong with her??????????? I really hate her.

I really have a problem with my WH thinking she is so wonderful, even if he leaves her for me.....I really hate her(oh, I said that already)

My intermediary is my cousin and like a sister, her husband sent an email to my WH chewing him another you know what. It was great since it said all the things I was feeling but it didn't come from me.

He wanted to talk this weekend so I let him talk, in my home...I know mistake. He was kind of feeling me out for what he need to do, I stood my ground with a NC plan that has extrordinary measures to prevent any contact. Which means leave your job. He was asking if a 6 month leave of absence would cut it and I said that was the bare minimum. Of course this leaves us with no income and ins. payments and mortgage payments etc. All of which he created! I did not want to tell him what to do to solve this dilemna but I feel like it is my marriage or my kids well being in terms of income and insurance. With my youngest needing so much medical care, insurance is critical and I would sacrifice my marriage for that.

I left it as when you have a real plan for NC let me know, in the meantime I am resuming plan B.

Maybe it would be easier to divorce and start over?

Kag, next time, your intermediary should not let him through until she is CERTAIN he has found another job and has achieved no contact. Your H is a bright man and he can get another job. That is what it will take to achieve nc.

I would try very hard to get ahold of OWH.


How did you verify this? It does not ring true. And are you sure this correspondence is not from the OW posing as OWH?

Some other thoughts.

1. your plan B is WORKING and your H misses you. He wants you to ease his pain so he won't have to make any changes

Don't EASE HIS PAIN, Kag

2. I actually think this meeting was good because you were able to express that he will have to leave the job

3. the 6 months leave of absence makes no sense. What are you supposed to do? Go back to affair he11 in 6 months? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I staked out their apartments <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> And found them listed on 2 different addresses through intellius. I mailed a letter to OW asking him to contact me since I keep getting foiled by phone. Wish I knew where he worked.

The job thing is hard...he works for the gov't in a very specialized field. Another job would probably leaving the area. The kids and I are established here. This is the best place for my son with the medical needs in terms of specialists and state support. Again it seems like the marriage or taking care of the kids.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

It seems like SH thinks that without contact for 6 months the addiction is broken? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Yes, it will be hard, but when there is a will, there is a way. You might have to make some tough choices here. Many people do. Your H will have to figure it out.

But its better to face it now that go through this again and again for years on end, jeopardizing your mental and physical health. If you are even thinking of getting back together while he continues to work with the OW, just know that women have nervous breakdowns and suffer years of post traumatic stress disorder from living like this. You are all your kids HAVE, and it would do no good for their mother to be in a nut house.

Good job staking out the OM! BRAVO TO YOU!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Can you go pay him a visit and ask him to be your ally?

KAG:

You realize from the list that I asked you to create, HOW you can recover this marriage, right?

All the reasons that you married him still exist.

The reason he is lost in the fog and caught up in this tragic relationship with his OW is due to the distance that was created in your relationship due to the medical issues of your DS and how both of you stopped feeded the marriage.

You probably had a great marriage until the first son was born. The second son added pressures that your WH was not really capable of handling. Dr. Harley talks about children being the time bomb in most relationships. Everything seems great in the M until the children come, and suddenly, all the things that were simmering underneath move to the forefront.

And he dealt with it for a number of years. Hoping that things might go "back to how they were". That would never happen. Kids CHANGE everything. Kids change BOTH of you. Notice your slam on OW for beginning this A with your H when her kid was 1 year old. (BTW, a deserved Slam!) This dscribes your focus, and your needed focus for the past 8 years. I'm not saying that you should remove blame from your WH for choosing an affair and transfer that blame to your child. Not at all. It's just the relationship between you and your H eroded due to your attention on your children.

Your WH COULD have chosen to find ways back into you and the marriage, and kept the marriage growing.
So could you.

We all suffer from that blind spot. If only our spouse would do THIS. Then the Marriage would be so much BETTER.

So, as soon as your spouse DOES THIS, you will DO that.

Pretty BIG blind spot.

I'm here at MB because it helped me save my marriage. Two days before Dday, my BS found this site and revealed it to me. Three days later my A was over and we were BOTH changed by then. My BS sounds an alot like you. You describe your WH like my W would have described me. (actually, your WH comes off better..) We never had any serious medical issues with our now 15 year old son. We have been VERY fortunate in that respect. But her focus became our son, and my failures to meet her EN's of Family Committment and Domestic Support. She was missing mine for admiration, recreational companionship and physical attractiveness. So. You can get there. Your WH would rather be home. Are you willing to find a way to let him back in?

Because it can happen.

What did you do during your Plan A?

LG

OWH called me finally. Conversation not too helpful. He is done with the marriage and has been since September. OWH did not want to try since he saw it was hopeless. OWH did not want any of the details, he just walked away. I probably know more than him and he didn't want to know! He alluded to OW not stopping her pursuit of my WH until she gets him.

Should I throw in the towel? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />