My wife and I have been together (dating) since 1995. We married in 1999. I believe the first 11.5 years of our time together was very passionate and fulfilling. Over the past year and a half, I noticed things were not quite as good, but never did I think them to be bad.

It was about a year ago, I wanted to give up my main hobby of fish-keeping because I was not getting enough time with my wife. She has been working more, and more noticeable, our communication was not as good as it once was (qty. and perhaps qlty.).

She was on business out of town for a week and a half working at her company's headquarters. I was upset because something didn't feel right. She wasn't making any time to communicate with me, and she was getting back to her hotel at like midnight everynight. This all took place in October 2007.

Well, I noticed my wife's work hours continued to increase. Her communication with me seemed to dwindle (again in both quantity and quality). I asked her if she had feelings for this guy I knew she was working w/ at her companies headquarters. She said no.

Well, we had some bickerments along the way. I was getting upset for my needs and the kids needs...as she continued to work these longer hours. She wanted me to support her work. Finally upon some other "parent company" trips...it was one in early January.

Upon getting home I had a latter for her...telling her I wnated her honesty, and openness...that things didn't feel right. I was torn apart about what she revealed, but glad of her honesty. She said, I love you, but I'm not sure I'm still in love with you .

I of course, loving my wife, ahd having 3 kids with her was going to win this small battle. I mean, she has known me for 13 years, and we have been happy for so many of them. This guy, she has only known for 2-3 months.

So, I ordered books on passion in marriage, as well as infidelity. I'm reading and learning a lot. I feel she is in an infatuation state, and is trapped in a bubble...and can't think logically.

We have been "trying" the past 2 months, and she just said tonight I've been pushing her farther away. I know during these past 2 months, she has done nothing to stop her feelings/actions for this person. They flirt contstantly via IM and phone. They work many hours together too. She has a lot of respect for him, and is in love with him. She said, she envisioned me to be like him when she married me.

She has lied to me a lot...over the past 2 months. I asked for honesty. But, she has lied jsut to get me off her back, so she can continue w/ him. She has lied just to appease my sorrow. She has made many commitments to work on us, but has seldom met them.

She came home after a recent trip from headquarters...few days ago, to tell me she was going to her parent's house. She wouldn't kiss me, or anything. This is after she decided to go up there Valentine's Day...commit to me she'd be in hotel by 7:00 (I didn't ask her to do it). She ended up having too much work to do. She was to call me later before she left...I waited and waited...10:50 I try to reach her. At first her phone rang...later it went straight to voicemail. She called me at 1:00 AM and told me she loved me, and she didn't think it woudl bother me much but she went out with this guy (my competition) and one other guy to dinner. She said they are just friends. Anyway, days later I find out she went for a walk with the guy holding hands, and they hugged.

She says nothing else physical has happened. She says they are emotionally connected. He is married and has two kids,and per my wife, is commited to his wife. My wife says she thinks about him a lot, and won't let go of him. She says they are just friends to our family...and isn't really being honest that she thinks of him often, is in love with him, has thought about him a lot while we kiss and make love, etc.

She has recently come out with some very hard things for me to swallow about our relationship. She says she has been unhappy for a long time. She definitely feels the 1.5 years, and perhaps farther back. I feel she never really communicated well. In all honesty her personality is one where she doesn't want to hurt somebody's feelings that she cares about...so she says. She thinks she tried with me letting me know of her unhappiness. I remember us having perhaps 6 or so converstaions over the past year (2-3 about growing apart, 1-3 about me getting counseling for depression, 4-5 times her wanting me to finish a college class). I remember I always talked to her about them, but neither of us offered suggestions...or acted upon it. I guess I didn't think there was a real problem.

I reflect and know I made a lot of mistakes. I took her fo granted, and really failed at making her feel special. I despise myself for it, as she has always meant the world to me. Though failing in actions, inside I have always been 100% for her. I'd do anything for her, and if I'd known there to be a problem...I'd step up for her. I go back and see so many opportunities...many times I did things to appease others at a knowing loss to myself and my wife (have single friends over). I remember at the time, I wanted to be w/ her, but was trying to fill the needs of my friend. There were other examples. I also have been working part time jobs, and going to school...and towards the end of my teaching certification...didn't finish my class. I think this was the straw that broke her back? Again, I know I failed...but again, I always felt we were happy, and my actions didn't stick out as overly problematic.

I just know she has it in her mind, she is now out of love with me. She doesn't think she can fall back in love with me. I feel she has a right to these feelings...but I think they are not completely true. I feel how can she let go of our marriage and our commitments (vows and kids)? I tell her, I'm changing. I'll show you, that I'm a man worth keeping.

But, for all my efforts...cuddling everynight, waking up with her and making breakfast for her, send her 12 roses one white eleven red (in every bunch there is one that stands out and you are that one...always and forever...Jason), bought her some valentines clothes, bought her a book with nice words inside of it hiding the book for her to eventually find, breakfast in bed, generally chivalry, brushing her hair, massages, lunch with her at work once per week, dinner w/ family at her work once per week. You get the point...I'm really trying to make her feel special.

The problem is that I'm constatly being lied to during this time. There are times when the honesty comes in and I find out what she said 2 weeks ago...was forgetting him, not flirting with him..was all work...She was now saying she thought about him all the time, and she was 50-50 on leaving me for him if he asked. She had made commitments to call me 3X per day while she worked + car ride home(~ 30min/day) to help us. She also while workign late woudl reschedule her times...almost always she would never make her commitments on her new times...and she came home much later than planned w/o communication too.

I feel she never gave me a chance. She says I've pushed her away more. I know I have tried talking about us, and what needs I need to fulfill. She just hasn't really put the effort into us.

As I type, I'm realizing how bleak it looks for me. I won't give up hope. I must add I've told her in honesty...adn I meant it as no guilt trip...that I am thinking about ending my life. I don't know if I can do it, but I just don't know if I can live on w/o her...I can't be the father I want to be w/o her either. She, of course, feels cornered, and I understand. If I thought, she couldn't be happy with me I'd let her go.

How can I make her fall in love w/ me again? She doesn't want to hold hands. She won't kiss me. She is staying at the house in a separate room. We see a minister on Friday to discuss our problems. She isn't going to let go, currently, of her chances with him...even though right now he is commited to his wife (though he has similar feelings for my wife...is passionate about her).

My wife is at the point, and is saying...she just doesn't know if she can be happy w/ me anymore. I am only asking her to trust me...give me one year and see where she is at. I ask her to do it b/c of our vows and commitments to one another...as well as for our kids. Deep down, I can't believe she would be any happier w/ anybody else. I know in her head and heart...if she stayed w/ me now and commited, if he asked her in 3 months to go w/ him...she'd do it.

Again, help me peeps. I love her...can't live w/o her.

How can I get her to give me a chance and/or how do I get her to fall back in love with me?

Welcome to MB. I'm sorry you are here. You have come to a a very good place. One thsat you will learn lots about yourself and your M, IF you are willing to look at it.

I KNOW how hard this must be for you and how deeply it hurts.

How much of this website have you read? Have you read Surviving an Affair and His Needs, Her Needs.

Your wayward wife is an alien who lives in a fog. You will hear from many people here, don't listen to what she says, pay only attention to her actions.

One of the things early on that I didn't understand is that it won't be fixed ASAP. You have much to learn. Breathe... read... and ask questions. There will be way more knowledgable along to help you develop a plan to save your M. Have faith in these people, they know and understand what they are talking about.

Everyone understands, especially me. I think my situation is one of the worst on here and I have learned and done things that I never thought I was capable of. I continue to love my WH deeply and have faith in G-d.

Learn all you can, develop your Plan and I wish you the best. Be as open on here as you can be and know that we are here to support you,

Quickly:

1. Read about, and apply Plan A. Your WW is in an EA, and quite likely a PA.
2. You have little chance of recovering your M if your WW and the OM continue to work together. Part of Plan A includes exposure to those who can assist in ending the A. The OMW should be on the top of your exposure list.

I appreciate the comments...am hoping for more perspectives.

Where can I learn about all these acronyms? WW, OM, etc.

Also, is plan A and B detailed anywhere. I've looked around the website, and haven't seen anything titled that (perhaps I missed it?). Perhaps it is somewhere on the forums?

I'm not giving up hope, but work I believe is somehow involved. As far as I know her lover is trying to work things out with his wife. In all honesty, I called his house once already and believe it or not talked to her. She does not speak English. I'm unsure what I would have said to her if she did...

I don't want to create tension, as I feel that may push my wife further away? I feel so guilty for my ill actions. I'm reading a lot and they say that of all actions my wife could have done...cheating is the worst. She caused this. But, I want her to just let this guy go...give me a chance. I just don't see that happening, as I don't think she is in a compromising mood. She "tried" only to lie to me more...and we have distanced more since. She is working more with him, and has developed more feelings for him I believe.

I don't think she wants to buy into the things I'm doing...and she is incapable of seeing many of them as being able to meet her needs. She only sees him, as her perfect, and whatever I do can't compare.

It's so hard how she says it's not a walk in the park for him, but she would run off w/ him if he asked her to right now. She is going to come back home, started last night after being at her parents for only a few nights. But, she is coming home for the kids. We both feel having both parents will give them better support. I know I'm trying to move forward w/ my life, and acquire a job/career (I was a homemaker, and she does well professionally), and trying to do everything else (most of housework, fighting for her, making sense of everything, raising 3 kids + an exchange student, adjusting to new responsibilities....basically run the household by myself). I don't know...she feels she has been taking care of me for years, and she now thinks of me as a dependent. I can't help but think I was in many ways, but I know I offered her things outside of that idea. But, financially, and perhaps in other ways, I should have done better.

How do we continue to move forward...and restore that "in love" feeling (well, her having it for me)? I would think holding hands, kissing, hugging would help that? She doesn't want to do these things b/c at this point, it has no meaning to her except to prevent me from crying, etc.

Physicsboy,

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

You might be looking for more perspectives and you might get others to chime in here, but MIM has pretty much summed up the deal for you.

Your wife is involved in an EA (Emotional Affair) at the very least. The bad thing is that all the signs and normal justifications for what she is doing are already there.

The good thing is that the same ideas can be applied to saving your marriage that have led to recovery of other marriages here on this forum. Because all affairs, no matter how unique they seem on the surface, are all pretty much the same in dynamics, certain things that can be applied to one can pretty often be applied to others with very little modification.

So when MIM says you need to do Plan A, he is saying that you need to do a couple of specific things. These are:

1) Learn what her top Emotional Needs (EN) are and figure out focused ways to meet those specific needs
2) Identify those things that you do that cause her to lose feelings of love for you. We call these Love Busters. (LB) Once you know these, you can work on getting rid of them.

Now all of this seems so daunting until you realize that her EN and your LBs are all gonna be pretty much from the book. So it isn't really all that hard except that you have to do it while trying to get her to end her affair. And be forwarned, there is nothing that will make this all go away and things get back to normal again and it certainly isn't going to happen quickly.

If you haven't already done so, please read the basic concepts from the link on the nav-bar at the top of the page. You might also want to read the Q&A columns regarding infidelity also found in the links at the top of the page.

You should also read WAT's and Longhorn's threads that are stuck to the top of the Just Found Out forum. I have some additional discussion of Plan A in the Musings Thread linked in my signature line and there are some additional links and resources on about page 4 or 5 of that thread as well.

I would also recommend that you get a copy of Surviving An Affair and begin to read it, since this is going to be the handbook that the advice you receive will come from.

For a short explanation of Plan A and B see this link >>> What Are Plan A & Plan B?

Hang in there and understand that this is going to be a long bumpy ride. Unfortunately there isn't a switch you can throw that will turn it all around. Affairs are analog rather than digital in nature and so gradual transitions and solutions work best.

MIM has mentioned exposure as being a tool to attack the affair and that is actually you most powerful tool to use. Exposure is done for a specific purpose and is sometimes counterintuitive so it needs to be done with some thought.

You also need to know what you can find out about this other guy. You need to do that by snooping/spying. You can get help with that here as well.

For now, read the Basic Concepts, the Q&A stuff and the threads on JFO. See about getting a copy of SAA and begin to ask more focused questions about things you don't
understand.

One more thing to keep in mind is that your marriage didn't get to this point over night and the problem won't go away over night either. This will be a process rather than punch list...

Mark

Your situation is totally salvagable !

Your pre-A marriage was not terrible. You are a good man & a good husband. Your pre-A marriage issues are average at worst!

CALL THE HARLEYS for an individual counseling session .... they will advise you the best way to coax your wife into a session of her own.

Do this sooner rather than later.

It is $$$ .... but cheaper than a divorce...... DO IT !

To schedule an appointment with Steve Harley, you may use one of two options:

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639
or
e-mail (counsel@marriagebuilders.com) an appointment request by completing the form below.

about this:



This is my suggestion .... find a way to communicate with OM's wife.

Ask her if she is aware that your wife has stated she would "run off with" her husband given the change.

Rock this boat ... Tell OM's wife your wife is acting like a teenager in love .... and let OM's W know HER marriage is in jeopardy if your wife does not back off .... and give OM's W your wife's cell phone number !!!!!!!!!!!!

You are where I was in so many ways. You have an advantage in that you have a better idea what is going on with your WW. Yes, there is a good chance you can save your marriage. Not until this A has ended.

You're still being lied to though. Your WW is in all probability having sex with this OM. I'd say its very unlikely this is just an emotional affair.

Study the concepts of this site. You need to be in Plan A, read this post, Carrot and Stick of Plan A and everything else Harley has written about Plan A. You need to become the best husband you can, eliminating all lovebusters. You also need to develop a plan of action to STOP this affair. Read about exposure, think about who you can expose this affair to that will help you end it. Family, friends, WORK (this will be very important since they work together), church, children, etc. I know as you contemplate this you're thinking "oh man, she'd be so pissed if I exposed this, she'd never forgive me". That is not true. Your marriage will not survive while another man is involved in it, the longer this A goes, the worse things are going to get.

IF you can get your ****** together and start executing Plan A like a pro, you may be able to turn things in your favor much more quickly than some others do.

STOP lovebusters, start doing everything you can to meet your WW's needs and fill her love bank (ya, we talk like that around here, you won't even notice it soon! :P ). START snooping, gathering as much information as you can. I suspect you need to prove to yourself that this A has gone physical. Put a stealth keylogger on any computer she may use, start investigating her detailed cell billing, and see if you can get into her voice mail. Consider a GPS tracker and perhaps a digital voice recorder for her vehicle. DO NOT get caught spying, DO NOT tip your hand regarding the information you gather. If things go badly you will be very happy to still have your information sources.

Get Surviving An Affair by Steven Harley, understand that your WW's behavior is really about an addiction, that she really is not herself, and is not functioning according to the normal rules you are used to. Get ready for her to say terrible things to you, and steel yourself to not crumble in the face of it.

As I said, you situation is very similar to mine, you may want to read through my Pre-Recovery thread.

Start PLANNING your actions, resolve to not fly off the handle, get your emotions in check and start doing the things you need to do to end this affair and bring your W back to you.

PB- the thing that stands out here is you say you are thinking about ending your life. You have 3 children???

Please get medical help. Your children need a sane, healthy father if they are going to get through this.


ABSOLUTELY expose! To OM (other man) wife, your wife's family, etc. Do it "nuclear style," ie, all at once to all parties with NO WARNING to your wife. It will surely piss her off, but it will ultimately be one of the best things you can do to END HER AFFAIR and get YOUR MARRIAGE BACK!

You need to "man up" as they say around here and PLAN A. It sucks, you did NOTHING to deserve this, but if you love your wife and family you MUST do what you need to do to end this affair and work on your marriage!

Good luck and keep posting, it really helps.

HTH

Hey PB! You are getting fantastic advice and links to some of the best this site/forum has to offer!

The best way to look at this is: you were 50% responsible for the state of the M before the A, but SHE and SHE ALONE is responsible for the A. All marriages have problems and noone is perfect, but having an A is NOT a solution.

Please stop thinking about ending your life. You would absolutely devastate your children. That is the most selfish thing anyone can do. As it is, they only have ONE parent who is thinking rationally and they NEED their father to be strong. You MUST getto the doc ASAP and get some anti-depressants. Dr. Harley recommends this to help BSs deal with the trauma.

Exposure...all in the same day (may take a couple days of planning, but the longer you wait, the more chance she has to "spin" things to her advantage, painting you out to be the bad H). Remeber this...and BELIEVE this:

**YOUR MARRIAGE CAN SURVIVE HER ANGER, IT CANNOT SURVIVE AN ONGOING A!!**

1. Write a letter to the director of HR telling them that this is going on during company trips and work time. Make sure you let them know how long you have been M and how many children you have.

2. Her parents and your parents....call them one after the other...make it short and sweet. "WW is having an affair with a man she is working with and I am letting you know so that you can possibly help me save my family. Whatever our problems were in our M, I will do my part to be a better H."

3. Go on the internet and pull up a translation website. Translate a short, concise letter to OMW since she does not speak English. If you can get a P.I. first and get some pictures, that would be great. Send phone bills with his number highlighted...whatever proof you can give her all together, so that langueage barriers don't matter, yanno! Believe me, she'll get the point!! Send it certified mail, receipt upon delivery (make sure ONLY she can sign for it, not him).

PB, you have already spent the past few weeks showing her how much you love her, doting over her, etc...only to be lied to and mistreated. Your affection means nothing to her right now...UNTIL THE A IS OVER!!! This is war, and the first battle is ending the affair. Not much else matters before that point, sorry to say, because I have been in her shoes. She will be LIVID about exposure, that's why it CANNOT be half-a$$ed. You must plan it and do it all in the same day. When she confronts you, just say "I will not allow a third party into our M." Then walk away...

I'm sorry you are in this situation, but I'm glad you found this place!!! Hang in there, put your head down and prepare to weather this storm. If you do the right things NOW, it will save you much heartache LATER.

((((((((((PB))))))))))

Jason,

Your story sounds incredibly similar to mine, except that you have one advantage - you already know your W is involved with a coworker - it took me 3 months from the "I love you but I am not in love with you" speech to find out that she was sleeping with a coworker.

I completely agree with others that this is unlikely to be just an EA - most adults who work so closely together and go on business trips together will not stop at just flirting without going physical.

Now, you seem to be doing what I did - blaming yourself, and trying to make up for past mistakes by overdoing it now. As others said, while you are probably 50% responsible for the state of the marriage, she is 100% responsible for the affair. So don't blame yourself for that. Besides, as you see, trying to be extra loving and affectionate to her, when she is in an affair, will only push her away. She is simply too conflicted to be able to both sleep with the OM and be accepting of attention from you - because if she did, it would ruin her "excuse" for the affair, that you are a "bad guy". That's why she will resist any efforts to woo her.

I think it is absolutely critical that you expose the affair to the OM's W. I was an idiot and did not expose my ex's affair until after she moved out - then, the affair ended within a week, but it was too late for us. Don't make the same mistake.

Also, I agree that as long as she works with the OM, there is no chance of recovery. Even if she tries to stop the affair, just the sight of hin at a meeting will reset the clock right back to the beginning. He can meet her EN's simply by being there - so they must be separated. My ex refused to do that (her job was the most important thing in the world, according to her), and she never stopped the affair for more than a few weeks. Again, don't make the same mistake.

In the meantime, it is really going to suck to be where you are, but please realize that at this point, you are the rock for the family and the kids, as your W is in LaLa land... So please, take care of yourself and the kids, and try to break up the affair by exposing to OM's W.

AGG

OM's wife can be the one that blows up the A - use this fact - TELL HER

I suspect that OM is using your WW like a toy - fun to play with but not to "buy".

Once OM's BW is pressuring her WH it is highly likely that OM will head for the hills ---- he just wants to play sexy games --- he does not want a costly divorce and the loss of his family

..... I would be surprised if OM wants a divorce ----

BobPure finally exposed his WW's affair to OM's live-in girlfriend --- immediately OM told Bob's wife he wanted nothing further to do with her

Their M is now recovering nicely !

This is a recurring theme --- the WW is the one who is heart-in the affair .... and the OM is just in with a different part of anatomy leading the way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Wow thanks for the advice. I have a lot of new information to share.

As I'm sure is common, my wife still loves me...and hates to see me suffer. Bottom line if he asked her to leave me she would...I don't think I'd be honest if I said otherwise.

She said she wanted to make things work. But, she isn't committed to leaving work. They work together. They are 180 miles apart in distance, but IM/Phoned in the past. And when my wife goes to corporate from time to time...they are often overnighters.

I know I'm being told don't believe anything she says. I have to say I've broken her down...completely..at times. It has been a serious struggle...and I've tried to manipulate the truth from her...trust me it has been a battle, and I've come out pretty scarred. I truly believe, that they have only hugged, and held hands. As much as I try to give her comfort in sharing this with me...it will help me move on, understand her feelings better, I will keep it between the two of us. She just won't budge. I know I'm partially gullible to believe her...but, I kid you not...I see no room when she tells me. I think I'd rather her say it to get it done...so I'm not hearing what I want to hear.

I'm glad this hasn't happened, but she is head over heels over this guy who she says is committed to his wife. She has hopes for him.

1) What are our chances?

I was so close to calling the OPS today. Anyway, my wife is back...she is distant...she broke down the most I've seen her during our whole ordeal (hurts to see her shed more for him in front of me than she ever did for me...in fact more anger towards me...accused me of trying to guilt her, etc.)

2) Should I fight for her? I guess, I have to say I love this woman...or 3) am I trying to hold on to what I thought I had? 4) Does she deserve me? 5) Am I doomed for likely failure? I feel we can restore what we had...it will be bumpy, but we'll get there. I am stepping up...trying to do the EN and LB thing. We see a minister on Friday. She wants me to see a therapist, and I don't feel I need one. 6) Is it more common/uncommon to think of suicide a little?

I have so many questions.

Let me propose this. She is in love with him. Physically I think what I said is true. How do I help my wife get past him? I don't want to jeopardize her job...6 digit annual salary, and still has quite a bit of growth. This guy she is after also is 6 digits. I have been the "woman" of the relationship, so perhaps some roles are reversed. I take care of the house and kids. I know she mentioned she needed a man...she wanted me to take more initiative. It hurts as I know I could have done better, but the most pain is in the fact I'm unsure if I can win her back b/c of what has happened. She is always going to compare me to this "dream." I know if I let her play that "dream" out, she would then only perhaps be able to see those needs I was filling. I tend to think in her current state of mind, only has unrealistic expectations of her needs. She sees only perhaps what she was missing.

To think she fell for this guy pretty easily...makes me think she was extremely vulnverable. Was that because of my poor actions, or her being weak to resisting? Probably both, I guess. I just ponder if I'll ever be enough now...even though in reality would best meet her overall needs. I know I'd compromise quite a bit...

What I'm fighting now...and is my focus (and should be I think)...is getting her past him. I read above, don't let it happen to you...his wife woudl go back and 3 weeks later be in the same situation. I think mine is paralleling that...over the past 2 months. She was mentally committed...and then go up to corporate...and it would intensify. During the times between it was rough, but we had good times. It can't be me...but there are highs and lows...constantly. One moment she has me feeling good, the next moment I feel destroyed. I know in spurts I'd get the truth...parts at the least...and think most parts when i spoke to her as a friend. I firmlly believe her feelings for him have gotten strongerover the past 2 months. Is it right to make that call to OMW? My wife has made it clear it would PISS her off. I understand it hurts her chances, but I think in reality it is more that she wants him to come to her on his own. Perhaps at some point, she will get despearate enough where she'll resort to doing it herself...

I just know I want her here...not hating me, and would want to do it together to get through it. Can my talks and therapists talks do this? I do question it being possible.

I just can't communicate well w/ OMW as she speaks VERY little english. And what happens if I do separate him and his wife...and my wife and him get together?

Let me know...I need to take action quickly. BTW, I don't think my wife would quit work. So, they are stuck working together...not sure how much, but in recent past, it was a great deal. I believe they'll spend some time 5-10 hours a week seems like a lot from now one (in past some weeks they worked well over 100 hours...I'm being honest...120+ in a 6 day perios, my wife slept in the office for 2 nights...well, for 1-3 hours total.

Sorry it's so long...I want to save us.

As I write this it sounds so pathetic to some degree...in reality, it looks like little hope. Am I right on that?

I just don't think I can enjoy another woman...I am so much in love with my wife. We always idealized our relationship, and new we were special (I know it probably sounds familiar). How do you move on?

Financially I have so many struggles. As of 4 days ago, she was willing to give me the kids and $2300 monthly child support (I get the house, kids). Still, to keep the house, and me getting a $20K/job...I will be VERY tight. I have a Physics degree, but it's hard to apply. I've been out of work for so long. I do think I have marketable skills, but it will take some time for me to showcase them...and market them. Likely years before I start to really move up. I fear as things progress, it is likely, my wife will want the kids and I'd have to pay C.s. I don't mind paying c.s., but I didn't do this...she did. I know I had a part, but she didn't have to do the worst thing to me. She could have left me if she was unhappy. I don't buy she was that unhappy...was missing needs, but not overly unhappy. She would have fought for improvement, right? Perhaps most just quit and move on rather than try to fix what is broken?

If I need to let her go...I just feel I also risk losing the kids too. I'm living at my parents to get by...make little to no money. My wife may/may not get her dream...and even if he does, someday she will realize he wasn't what all she thought. I can't help but believe she'll come back to regret we didn't try to work it out. But, I think it takes us to divorce for her to believe that. How else could I show her this, and help her believe it?

I worry about my kids a lot. Statistics show they are predisposed to divorce if parent divorce. As we know, it's as close to bottom of the barrel as one could come (for me losing my child would be worse). I think I should try to make this work for them...and I know I could be happy w/ her...but is she going to ever be that same person I was once in love with? Close? Forever changed, and likely to never be able to love me?

Again, sorry for so many questions. I have so much on my mind. I'm glad she is here...I comforted her telling her we'd take it slow. I expressed I understood she had great feelings for him, and it was okay to show them to me. I told her how common A are...and how ours is very much like everybody else's. I'm unsure if this is giving her strength to make the fight for us.

There is always hope, but you have to listen to the people on here and get a plan together.

Trust me when I say this is the hardest thing I had to do and learn. And I am still struggling with it. Simply put, you face reality of the situation, decide on your plan. do what you can and give it to G-d. He is the one who will walk through it and with you. Moving on it letting G-d do what he is going to do. We have NO control over anyone else but ourselves. Moving on is accepting the situation and working your hardest on the footsteps, and then turning it over.

Are you familiar with AA terminology?

You HAVE to accept your wife is an ADDICT, ALIEN, and MONSTER. The wife you knows doesn't exist. What she is doing, saying, etc is all to get her next fix. Don't worry about what she is doing. Concentrate on you and what Plan you are putting together.

You can't show her or tell her anything at all. It's not your place and it's not going to work. Concentrate on getting a plan together and work it.

Stop telling her and educating her. Start meeting her EN's and keep asking questions. Become the very best person you can be. What changes do you think you need to make?

Wow, I keep rereading your posts...I'm trying to work up the balls...it's hard to make that jump to call the OMW. I have his home # and address.

Is he not guilty of A by having feelings for my wife, and acting on them by holding my wifes hand...hugging her. At this point, I truly believe he could have done this to only comfort her. I think he is, at this point, trying to stay committed to his wife. Assume this all is true. I should still call his wife..perhaps he goes nuts, or she does too. She might get physical w/ my wife...kill her, or who knows. I know my wife will use this to hate me...and bring her family onto her side. I know here family thinks they are just friends and she has an infatuation. They will not accept it is more than that. I know they would be upset with me if I called the OMW. I honestly think it would be enough to push my wife out the door and plenty of reason to fight for the kids. Now, what do you think? I don't know if it's worth that risk, but the end result might be the same...but one she hates me. I guess either way if she leaves me...I have plenty of reason to resent her...she, IMO, is no better, and could use a taste of her own medicine. Come on guys...make some sense. Be cautious...I really worry about pulling the trigger. Do I wait to see how therapy goes...or pull the trigger now. I'm sorry as it has gotten worse over the past 2 months.

My wife is an atheist. I am an agnostic. The OM is a devought Catholic. My wife said she wanted to try and convert for him. She was the EXACT opposite, and has always been so tough to fight religion. She is a whole new person. Of all people, my wife had the most resentment of a creator...and people shoving religion in people's faces. She now wants to throw herself into God...I think to cope w/ her feelings. I don't even think she has much guilt (at times perhaps)...but she told me jsut 2 days ago, it was very little. I think she was honest. How could she not in how she has lied to me...so effortlessly? It all makes sense with your ALIEN ADDICT MONSTER example. She is going to get her fix, and nothing will stop her. She wants us to go to church now, and I'm not saying it's a bad thing...but I hate to feel pressured into doing it. I would rather have went on our own...and grown into it. I'm unsure I'll ever be able to accept here is/isn't a creator. We could be going down a path of conflict.

What do you mean...nothing? I mean obviously we have to talk about the kids...but about my methods of breaking them up? Thus far, I've shared EVERYTHING...all thoughts, actions, and I constantly tell her what are the norms, etc. She is exhausted at naseum...I obsess over these things she says.

[/quote]Start meeting her EN's and keep asking questions. Become the very best person you can be. [/quote] I will go look at love bank and EN's. By the way we did EN survey about 2.5 weeks ago. My wife said I met her needs, and she liked the way I did them...and did them often enough. I took it, and it showed she wasn't meeting my needs (obvsiously she was in an affair and not meeting my needs). She broke down when she found out she couldn't meet my needs. I think at this point, she was hoping to work things out. I think it confirmed to her that I was too needy. She does express she feels I'm too dependent on her. Anyway, I started to talk to her about EN survey, and told her about being in her bubble...and her EN survey was proof of that. She then struggled...and w/ a little time, she said she wasn't being honest. She wanted us both to reatake the thing. We both took it as thinking past 2 years of our marriage. I was more happy, and she was not as happy. She was REALLY expecting me to be hurt by her comments. I caught myself thinking, is she just trying to say things to say there is no chance...I wasn't meeting her needs? I get the feeling she has guilt deep down...doesn't want to see me hurt...hope she does feel guilty...and she wants to push me away (find a woman, job, etc.) so she can pursue her dream (and not have the guilt, etc.). Like she doesn't have enough reason to merit the jump w/o all other parties in our lives to think negative of her (kids not respecting her for cheating, her parents for not sticking it out, etc.). My in-laws are relatively religious...in fact, my mother-in-law works 60-80 hours a week at her church. Was the 1st survey right? The second? Do either have any validity? The bottom line I need to know where I'm deficient so I can address them.

[quote/What changes do you think you need to make? [/quote] Wow, that's a good question, and here is what I'm doing now. I'm pursuing a job...that pays okay ($20-30K/year). My hope is to evolve into something along $50K/year or better, but it will take a few-several years perhaps. I was at about $50K/year when I started staying at home. I just can't apply my degree well. Anyway, other changes. I'm doing more around the house. Over the past 6 months, I do 90%+ of housework. I do stuff during the day, and most at night too. I'm the typical housewife (but male physically). I have failed on this front to some degree, but I know I was improving a great deal this summer on. It wasn't overnight, but I'm now cooking almost every single meal we eat in the house. I'm also improving on clean-up. There is a lot of maintenance of our property 2.5 acres. We have a fairly sized home, and messy kids. I need to do more of just clean-up. It is a lot of work, and I have had a hard time coping w/ cleaning w/ the kids in the past. I basically did bare minimum in the past. I also need to improve on the time spent w/ my kids. I need to do better w/ potty training, education, etc. My wife also wants me to volunteer more, which I've been doing more as of late. B4 I knew of affair I was already taking more actions...just not as quickly as I should have...nor as much. I want to do these things for myself...so, I do think I was truly lacking in my efforts. I can do more..could have done more...I'm now going to do it all. So, I'm facing a lot...really stepping up to get a job, fight for my marriage, while she is away at work/living at in-laws...I'm raising the kids full-time, volunteering, trying to exercise (my new hobby of getting healthy and losing weight), etc. It's a lot of stress...I have only slept about 16 hours over the past week. Typically it's around 2.5 hours a night. I've lost 30 lbs. over the past 2 months. I don't know...I'm trying. I want these changes regardless of my wife's decision. But, it is so hard for me to do it alone...much easier w/ her. I want to enjoy them w/ her too. On other things...I need to be more passionate, and I've done WELL over the past 2 months, but those efforts were unnoticed (but I did GREAT things). I want to make her feel special...that's what I've been doing. I know I have to get rid of A b4 she can see them. I also feel I need to work on adjusting her idea that she was so unhappy with me...and can't be happy and in love with me again. How do I do the latter? And comments about the above? Thanks.

OK, PB....BREATH.....

Calm down. Read the links that have been posted for you to read on page one of your thread. Know that almost every single person who comes to this site is in the place you are in, writes the same things, feels the same way. The most important thing for you to do right now, is read. Read the other stories on here...see how you are the same, not different. It is the calming factor. It is what will help you focus on the fact that while there are some minute deatils that are different in each story, the gist is the same.

So spend a couple days reading, PB. There will be a lot of things you may need to read a couple times, but here is a list of things that WILL NOT WORK!!!

1. Begging and pleading
2. Trying to educate her
3. Trying to talk to her about relationship or affair issues
4. Negotiating any kind of "arrangement" that enables her affair (child support, separation, etc)

I know you think that the OM or his W may retaliate, but they most likely will not. 99% of the time, it doesn't happen. If you are concerned that you need more proof, hire a P.I. and get proof. I know you don't want to hear this, PB, but from the hours they have spent together and the level of emotional attachment your WW had to this man, it is NOT just an EA. It just isn't. She isn't going to give you the truth for fear of you ruining her chances with him.

Which is EXACTLY what needs to happen. You like the analogy of the addict? That's exactly what she is right now. You are trying to take the crack pipe away. She is oblivious to you right now, she is living her every breath waiting for the next fix. YOU MUST DENY HER THIS. Get the company she works for involved (DIRECTOR of HR) and then tell his wife. YES, he is having an affair with your wife (even if it did stop at a hug). His wife deserves to know so she can do her part to stop it.

But none of this matters until you have a chance to read, calm down and focus on a plan. Nothing is worse than the pain you are feeling right now, am I right? So, listen to us and put those thoughts of suicide out of your mind RIGHT NOW!! It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. And you have kids who love you...please do not devastate them this way.

Come on, now, deep breath...READ!!!