Ok...I must say it. AGG is right!

I think the reason she wanted you to "take what you want" is because rough sex is not intimate. She thought rough sex and detached sex would be the answer to giving you just enough to keep you jumping through her hoops without having to kiss you or be emotionaly intimate with you.

She didn't cry from guilt, she cried because it didn't feel right. I know it's hard for you to understand how someone you made love to for many years doesn't feel comfortable being intimate with you now but it is possible. That is also exactly why she doesn't want you in the bathroom with her watching her change clothes.

Is it okay for me to tell my wife I absolutely know she has had sex with him. Is it best just to let her come out with it.

To be honest my feelings if she has had sex with him...it to tell her to get the f&*^ out. Is this wrong?

I should say, it wasn't rough sex. Also, she cried only after she came...both times.

So, what do you give her having sex w/ him? Nearly 100%? I just don't know if I could cope w/ it at this point.

Well, truth is that you don't know, so why say that? I would assume that they had sex, and proceed with that assumption. But why tell her that you know for sure when you don't?

AGG

I spoke to my wife just now. She seemed like she knew what was up, but wanted me to tell her "is there something you want to tell me?" I told her no...she pressed. I eventually said, I had nothing to say to her...but perhaps somebody else might.

Of course she pressed, and I just said...I called OM house. I told her I was uncertain who I spoke to. That part is true. I feel it might have been the OMW. I did not tell her about the letter.

She was upset. B4 we got to all of this, I asked about her and the OM having sex. I tell you, I don't think my wife is a good liar. I know this would be the best time she could be one...has something to hide. But, IMO, I'm also very manipulative if I have to be...and I think I've given her plenty of opportunities to tell me the truth.

I will say it again, I feel it very unlikely the A has gone overly physical. Not that my wife wouldn't...perhaps she would do everything (sex being last resort). Felatio, I think no problem. Kissing, definitely would do. Sex, perhaps. I will say my wife is emotionally based...rather than physical.

So, I'm not really sure. I feel she hasn't done anything except holding hands and hugging. You can argue more w/ me...I don't mind. I'm uncertain as she has lied effectively in the past. It's just this item I have asked her several times. She has been relentless and consistent, and hasn't budged. I have really helped her feel comfortable telling me (but she might have that pact w/ him and that overrides the comfort I give her). I don't really know.

Anyway, she went off the handle. I think she has little choice but to come home tonight. Perhaps she will sleep with the kids rather than in our bed. Perhaps she will sleep downstairs by herself.

I'm wondering if I should wait up for her, or just hit the hay. I'm assuming she might want to talk this time, to dig for more details. That is what she was pressing me about on the phone...what did you say to his wife exactly. She has not see the 3 page note I have (I read her only like 5 lines to give her a taste). I mailed the 3 pages too, which she doesn't know about.

I don't know...I do not feel good hurting my wife. I don't like to see her mad. I feel good that OMW probably knows, and is likely going to put some serious pressure on the OM...if she hasn't already. I feel it will get worse rather than better for him in the coming days. Perhaps I'll get a phone call soon.

My wife, I'm unsure, but somebody said it well. My wife doesn't have much better options right now. She is stuck as she doesn't want to just leave the kids. Nor can we afford sitting right now. I think she is likely to just let things go the way they are for convenience. My mother can watch the kids while I work. My mom would do it for my wife too...but, it would be awkward as ****** for beth to take the kids away from the house and then ask my mom to take care of the kids. Or for that matter, kick me out of the house (I'm not leaving voluntarily)...and then she asks my mom for help. I guess if my wife stops paying the bills (mine), she could do it. That is an option. I'm unsure how things work, but her bonus would kill me if she took it all to herself. $25K, and $9K is to go to my CC, and $9K to hers. The rest is for a trip that I likely won't be able to go on. It's a bummer, as we would be in a nice timeshare...could be romantic, and would be nice family vacation (disney world).

So, what do you think...go to bed, or wait up for her?

She is likely to say she'll divorce me I think...b/c of what I did. I am unsure how to respond, but I guess I'll tell her I love her, and hope she doesn't decide to do this. Please allow things to settle before jumping to a quick conclusion.

Go to bed.


Well, it might be good to start by pointing out that her affair is by far a more eggregious offense against the marriage than you informing the OM's wife about it... And, you can tell her what I finally told my W when she kept telling me that she wanted out - "honey, the door is right over there"...

AGG

Wow, my wife just took the kids. It's 12:40, and she came w/ a sherriff.

I was told I would be arrested and have a felony on my record if I called her friends, family, or work. I think it included my wife too. He said it took effect immediately, and tomorrow my wife was going to get the paperwork done.

She is trying to say the kids aren't safe. I'm sorry, but I would never do anything to the kids, and my wife knows that. However, she is using my shared information of suicide in the past. Her work is terrified of me...and really all the calls have been to my wife's office phone, the OM cell phone...only late hours when he is off w/ her. I have called the IT guy and a few other number 2/15 to find her. But, I only spoke to one person, and I was very cordial.

I think it's going to be a tough road. How can I get my kids back? I think she'll go for the house too, and will be doing that tomorrow.

Wow!

I'm guessing she'll clean out the bank tomorrow too. Wow, I can only think things are over.

You need an attorney NOW.

This fight is no longer about the M, it is about your time with your kids.

I don't have a clue why you wanted to call and tell your WW about calling the OMW PB, what part of Plan A did that fall under?

Anyhow, get a lawyer, a good one, and get your kids home.

Agree with Tyk...Get a lawyer today!

Mark

I actually don't think a Sherriff can prevent you from calling such a broad range of people on your WW's instructions. SHE can get a restraining order against you contacting HER, and that might even perhaps include calling her work at all (I doubt this, but maybe), but your WW can't get a RO on OM's or OMW's behalf. Get a lawyer and have him to explain very clearly what actions your WW has taken.

I am at this point hesitant to give you any further advice as you seem to have a hard time controlling yourself and don't really appear to understand what the MB plans are trying to accomplish, or are at least unable to control your impulsive behavior and execute the plans effectively. I honestly fear that you will make your own legal situation worse.

Where are your kids now?

Wow... Did the sheriff have some paperwork to justify this action? Something smells very fishy here to me...

Anyway, agree with others, this is way beyond MB - it's time to go see a lawyer ASAP...

AGG

Damage control time. I went through a custody battle a few years ago. I got a paper that said I'd "kidnapped" my son. It meant nothing in court.

~ Don't panic.
~ Get on the net and find your closests fathers' rights advocacy group.
~ ALSO contact your nearest women's domestic aid/advocacy group. Tell them the story of how you were in the reverse role of home maker. They may help you.
~ If you were not given a 'paper' last night, just don't call anyone at all until you get a piece of paper. But if it doesn't arrive within a couple of days, go to the court where she filed and find out what's on record.
~ Unless she filed a PPO, I can't imagine that you would be forbidden to call her regarding the children. My lawyer advised not to call about children more than once per day.
~ In my opinion, you are in a good position to remain a stay at home dad if you so choose.
~ Because your wife controls the money, first start with the legal phone numbers you will get from "Legal Aid," usually in the phone book or available from domestic aid services. You will need as much free legal advice as you can get.
~ Get into therapy (even a free therapist) as soon as possible. You will need to get to the point where you are not suicidal to get a letter from a counselor saying you are now stable. Don't rush the process just because your wife took the children. You need to get to a stable place. Remember that that being "mother" to the children for so many years already proves a pattern of stability.
~ If you are suicidal today, though it may not be the best in terms of legal rights, go to a hospital with a psych ward, go to the emergency room, tell them that you are afraid you will harm yourself. There are also hotlines in phone books for suicidal thoughts.
~ Start gathering money for a retainer for a real lawyer. Get references. You don't want to invest in a bad lawyer just because they are handy. Get relatives to help the search if you can. Get relatives to help raise the money. You cannot promise they will get their money back, but they might. Your wife may end up having to pay your legal fees.
~ Consider what you really want for yourself right now. Did you really want to go back to work? Or would you really rather remain a stay-at-home dad? Because if she really divorces you and really has that big income, it is unlikely a court will force you to go back to work. Once the dust settles from "her" accusations/lies, the court will certainly look at your stability as a SAHD and her instability of having an affair and yanking the children from their home. You may very well be awarded custody and given child support and possibly spousal support. You may be awarded a little extra for the fact that she had an affair. (My referee penalized my ex for lying by making him drive an extra forty miles for visitation.)

I think you were trying to Plan A. Now you will have to look at some of the threads where people are Plan A/Plan B'ing with spouses absent. There are also some custodial issue threads that could help out.

I think you must have been a pretty great dad for her to trust you at home for so many years. That was every bit a full-time job. I wish you the best.

Horrible experience for the children, can't imagine a mother handling the situation this way. So sorry for you.

Unfortunately, I've been to court a couple of times, have lots of friends/relatives who have gone through these battles.

The courts don't really care too much about the personal drama between the parents. They want to know where will the children be safe? (Most stable home environment: SAHD with years of experience vs. revolving door child care with full-time working mother -- though this is not a judgement on her/I admire her working.) Where do the children have social support (relatives/friends/school/church)? Where will the childrens medical needs be met best? (Any special care children/special classes/etc?) Where have the children lived the majority of their lives? Etc.

The affair will have an impact in terms of explaining why you were unstable during this time -- your lawyer would probably mention it briefly. But custody battles are not about parents; they are about the children. I am so sorry your children had to go through this.

Yes I can confirm that the wife CAN put a restraining order on you from calling her, her friends, her family, and her co-workers. This was done to me to keep me from exposing the affair to everyone. The odd part was that she kept calling me so it wasn't two sided either.

I'm sorry to say this but whether she was wrong or not you went too far. I have a husband that acted the same way long before I ever gave him reason to. It's horrible having somebody pile their emotional insecurities onto you, your family, your friends and your co-workers...it's humiliating having your marrital problems smeared all over the place when your husband decides to broadcast your personal business to anyone who will listen. You may have pushed her away long before an affair. At least consider that please.

I don't think you understand or agree with intention of exposure LASG.

Exposing the A is not "broadcasting personal business to anyone who will listen", nor is that what PB did or attempted to do.

While I would agree he's been somewhat clumsy with some things (that might be sugar coating it, sorry PB), I don't feel he's done anything unwarranted in the attempt to end his WW's adultery. His problem is the carrot of Plan A, and a clumsy use of the stick. I'd definitely say that those things are working against him, but not because of the exposure.

I'd bet pretty heavily that you are a very fogged out WS, LASG. Have you posted your story? 6 posts and you're harpin on PB about exposure? What's your perspective?

THANK YOU TYK!!! You beat me to it...the foghorn was a-wailin in my ears when I read that post.

Anyone who is giving advice to others without posting their story and trying to gain some KNOWLEDGE first- especially spewing things like that, are almost definitley FOGGY!

I agree that PB has done some things wrong, but he has just had his kids stolen from him for it. Hopefully he will let us help him as best we can...

PB, really worried about you, buddy...update PLEASE!!!

Hey guys. Well, the M is not over yet.

To step back a bit...I know there are some things that I haven't handled ideally. On 2/14 it was the worst. I did call her quite a bit, OM cell quite a bit, office # quite a bit, and even called her hotel. I am being honest, I not only worried about her being w/ OM, but perhaps she was attacked while she left work. It is not the best neighborhood, and she had to have left very late. It is by a dark alley when you leave the office.

Anyway, there have been some other episodes, and each time my wife has made commitments to call me...she doesn't, and very often they are very late at night when she is at corporate.

Anyway, I told my wife about calling OMW b/c I knew my wife knew. The way she spoke on the phone "is there anything you want to tell me?" I figured why give her a st8 answer, and said no, but perhaps somebody else might. You know the end result...I knew she knew, so I went ahead and said the truth first. She already knew.

I can't help but feel...that I was justified in letting OMW know. He wasn't going to tell her, and he was involving himself in my marriage. I know my wife and I have to work on us, but being realistic...how can I work on it, if he is involved. Right? I had to take the action of plan A. Clearly, I tried not contacting OMW, and it only got worse over the first 2 months of me knowing about the affair. I was doing EXTRA things then too...many things. Nothing was being received from my wife as they were (flowers...she was mad about getting them).

Anyway...I voluntarily moved out of the house. She gave me an ultimatum...move out, or I'll get an order of protection. She said "it was doing her a favor." After some thinking, I said I would do it, but I strongly disagreed it was in the best interest of the children. I'm making a long story short...only a matter of time until she would get OoP, and likely I wouldn't be able to see the kids for 3 weeks. That is not good for the kids. I'm trying to be rational (have thought I have been...minus excessive calls...and yes, suicide...but I'm 100% past it...i made the concious decision 2 weeks ago).

Anyway, on Saturday my wife invited me to dinner. Oh yeah, she allowed a minor back into the house on Friday with me (our exchange student). If she truly felt I could cause harm to myself/kids...then she never should have allowed him back in, nor should she have brought a sherriff into the house (the kids were traumatized, believe me). Also, don't you think if she felt I was suicidal to put me into an institution? I think her actions spoke selfishness. That is just my feelings. At the least, she acted very irrationally. So, dinner...at 6:00 Saturday. I had told her the day before that I had sent a letter to OMW. I told her as I wanted to get the worst out of the way.

The OMW got the letter on Saturday. I guess she was upset, and OM called WW. My wife was furious...even though I had told her it was 3 pages long, and only spoke the truth. I guess the OM called my wife and said he could no longer protect her and he was going into work w/ letter and saying he could no longer work w/ her. I am guessing he will lie about feelings between him and my wife...and simply say he is forced b/c of the letter (his wife fears affair is true, and he has to act on it).

I don't know, but my wife was furious...called dinner off. She invited me over on Sunday after she moved into the house. I had not seen the kids since they were taken out of the house. I told her I did not know if it was a good idea the kids seeing us together (mixed messages). My wife is unsure on us falling back in love (very pessimistic). But, one person told her (marriage counselor) that people can fall back in love with one another. I have told this to my wife too, but she had to hear it from someone else. She goes to see an attorney on Wednesday...and she might file for legal separation. I know she asked me if I could move back in and not pressure her...not sure if she quite asked me, but she was feeling me up on the idea at the least. I'm shaking my head. I think she is acting very irrationally, and taking advice from OM, and her friends. I'm not sure, but her friend is the one that convinced her to get sherriff.

So, I didn't go over for dinner. Rather, I aksed he to drop off the kids. I spent some time w/ them, but they were ready to get back home to toys, etc. I dropped them off, and was transferring car seats to WW vehicle. She came outside, and wanted to talk to me (I would not look at her when she dropped off the kids). I am not sure, but I was holding her in my arms...and kissed her on the cheek. She seemed to receive it well...like she needed some affection (wasn't going to get it from OM). She asked me to come inside. I told her I'd have come over earlier for dinner if it was for us and the kids. But earlier, she expressed it was for the kids.

I went inside, and helped her unload groceries. I spent a little extra time with the kids, and my wife and I spoke. I offerred her the letter I wrote to OMW...to help her. I asked her to listen to my advice of how I think she should handle work tomorrow (basically said, protect yourself and the kids...not him. I also asked her to be honest). I know she won't be completely open, and she said she could not tell work about his feelings for her...only share she had feelings for him. She said it was not her place. I know she is risking her job, but I accept her decision. I only hope OM doesn't take her to the cleaners, and he may. My wife loves him, and I think she is taking that risk.

So, I'm living at my parents...not able to be father right now. In some facets yes, but not daily routines. It is all being changed.

I still love my wife, or the idea of who I feel she is. She is not currently who I married, or knew 6 months ago. I want to fight for that person she was. She told me she wasn't going to do anything, and I had to win her back. I know I've made mistakes. But, how can she rate our years so well, and then say...what have you done for me? At one point, she mentioned financially. How am I going to win that war when we decided I'd stay at home (I did have a part-time job managing 50 apt's up until 2.5 years ago).

I don't know. I just hope for her, and the kids mainly...she gives an effort on the M. I can't help but think we'll get through it...I'll start filling her LB, and our marriage can be better as a result of all of this (b/c of our actions). I wouldn't wish this on anybody, and I would take it all back if I could. But, I'm here, and want to move forward, and make our marriage better.

Thanks to everybody. I will update as soon as things unfold.

BTW, I asked my wife about her crying after our 2 recent sexual encounters.

Kudos to the two who said she cried b/c she felt as if she was cheating on him. She told me this was the case yesterday after I said reflecting back, this is how I took it. She agreed...it was totally how she felt.

She still is adamant on there not being anything physical beyond what she told me (holding hands and hugging).

Marriage counselor today through church.
Tomorrow my wife sees a Psychiatrist
I see a different psychiatrist on Wednesday

my wife opened separate checking account and gets her bonus of $25K in it today. She didn't openly share this with me, but I said you've told me you have no secrets...do you have a separate checking account...she said yes...i said are you putting your bonus in there...she said yes. She later told me it was being deposited today.

BTW, what is best...I keep helping her a great deal at the house? Or do I let her do most of it herself...to ackknowledge just how much I have been doing? I know I could have done more, don't get me wrong. But, keeping a house w/ little to no support is hard (4 kids). I think I need to help her in any way I can...she has too much going on (stresses, etc.). I love her. I feel like I'm making myself overly vulnerable to failure w/ her actions/feelings she has expressed. I know I don't want to live w/o her (if she can be that person I knew 6 mo ago). I know I could dettach best right now...but can't be in contact (or little of it as possible). If I try to help her...save our marriage...I could get badly hurt. And her attitude, I think it is likely.

I am getting a job...might make $50-75K...it is possible, have a good job possibility per my father. I go in for testing tomorrow, and my father has set up with "high upper" to talk to me as soon as my testing is over...to get me placed. He said even if I fail the test, he is going to place me. I can't think I'd fail a test...I often do very well on things like that. Anyway, it's crazy, as so many things are at play. I have learned how poor our finances are...and perhaps that is what is driving my wife mad, though she wouldn't agree to it likely. She'll gross around $125K this year, and we have no retirement, $18K CC, $60K in student loans, etc. We have recently bounced a lot of checks, etc. I'm at serious fault for not involving myself in our finances...she is an Acct., and loves handling the $$$. I know if we move forward, I'll have at least 50% involvement. She just has too much going on...