Hello all,

I've come to these boards for some much needed help. I've been reading so much for the past couple of months and feel this is the best place for the answers I need.

My wife and I have been married for 21 years this past November and on November 14th she told me she wanted to leave and that she has been wanting to leave for a long time. We have 3 children. Two girls and a boy ages 20, 18, and 17 respectively. There is no alchohol or substance abuse in our house nor is there any physical abuse. We were a loving family but my wife and I just haven't been meeting each others needs. We are trying to put one of our daughters through college and we have always struggled financially. In October I bought a fancy car agaisnt her will (bad move...I know...don't beat me up too bad!) that she claims just escalated her announcement to leave. I told her I was selling the car but she claims she would have left me years ago if she could have made it alone financially. I found out she told an old school friend and others that she was leaving me before she told me. Turns out she had lunch with this school friend(male) when she was in NH to see her ailing grandmother. I believe it was late September of last year. I guess you all know by now what this is leading to. We live in VA, by the way, and since she announced she wanted to leave on the 14th of Nov. she started acting strange and I found that she had been talking to this other guy on the cell phone, e-mail, texting an incredible amount of time. It was something our children also noticed. She slept in our bed for a few more nights after the her announcement to leave me and all the while I was begging and pleading and crying....the typical, I'll change , I know I been wrong and neglectful...stuff. I was and still am extremely upset and still cry alot when I'm alone. I 'captured' some of the e-mail traffic and it appeared she was planning a life with this other man. She was staying up late on the computer and on the phone all the time. She never was like that. She hates the computer but was having an emotional affair with this guy and I was closing in on it. She had a class reunion of sorts in a restaurant in a town nearby in November, after she broke the news to me, and the OM drove from NH to be there. There were other people there but I was not invited, of course. After the reunion was over he walked her to the car and kissed her. She told me this only after finding a love letter from him in her pocketbook. I was devastated. All through Nov. and Dec. she continued her EA with this other guy as I begged and pleaded and asked her to please work on our marriage. There were angry outbursts at times on both parts during this time. I was trying hard to be loving and kind and for the most part I was but all the begging and pleading and tears just drove her further from me. She had lost respect but in the exchanges of anger I was no pushover. I told her what she was doing was wrong and she knew it. At one point, right before Christmas, I told her I wanted her out of the house and if that is what she wants she should just leave. The other man had sent her a phone to use because my wife found out I was tracking her phone usage. This phone came to our house and one of our children had to sign for the package. They were already suspicious because of her actions and new manner. I tried to tell my wife that this guy is trash but of course she didn't listen. The other man plans on moving to VA in about a year and leave his 4 children with his ex-wife who lives in MA, I believe. I continued to beg and plead and cry for re-committment to our marriage. I was a mess...up and down..angry..then sad..During this period she was out of work (Oct thru Dec) and finally she got a new job. She moved out on Jan 5th and we continued to speak and as long as the conversation didn't turn to our marriage we were fine but evertime I saw her I brought it up and the tears would start. Not so much begging and pleading at this point but more of a 'I hope we can get through this...I love you...I know our marriage is worth saving'..kind of stuff. I hope this other guy isn't coming down to see her while she is on her own, but I can't be sure. She has lied about the relationship before. The last thing I said to her reagrding our marriage was on Feb. 10th. I told her I didn't believe in divorce, I wanted her to come home, I know our marriage is worth saving, but it's all in your hands now. I told her this after making her laugh a bit. She had just dropped off our son who has spent a few weekends with her since she's moved out. Just this past weekend she dropped our son off late on Sunday and she came in the house to see our daughters who were there and stayed for a hour. We asked each other 'how are you' and really that was the extent of our conversation. I was dying inside but trying hard to stay strong and appear happy. When I see her I just want to hug her and hold her but she'll have no parts of that, I know. She hasn't wanted me to touch her since before she moved out. Were do I go from here. I feel I shouldn't contact her at all....I didn't send her a Valentine....she doesn't need two, right? Thank you so much in advance! I know this is long and I'm sorry but there is much more that will be revealed as I post, I'm sure.

Wats...

Hang in there. Yes your post is long, but the bigger problem with it is you need to break it up into more paragraphs so it is not so hard on the eyes....

You came to the right place...I'll be back later to post to you since DD11 is standing over my shoulder waiting for the computer....lol.

Have you read "Surviving An Affair" yet? Have you identified her emotional needs???

not2fun

What do your kids think? They need to know all the details.

I personally would file for a legal separation and cut her off financially if you pay for any insurance or anything. I would also expose to OM's wife or ex-wife, his family, and your WW's family. Make sure they understand that she has been planning leaving you for this OM, well before she told you it was over.

I don't even know where to start, but I do want to assure you that this is not hopeless at all. We have seen far worse than this come back from the dead. Her affair is DOOMED. 95% of affairs fall apart and there is a 70% divorce rate of that 5% that ever get to marriage. So, be assured that it is the affair that is doomed, not your marriage.

But first off, it is important that you EDUCATE yourself about waht is happening here. The way to do that is get to the bookstore TODAY and get Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. That will help make sense of what we are going to tell you because all of this will be COUNTERINTUITIVE. As you can see, the intuitive actions you have taken thus far have been disasterous. But that is exactly how most of us react.

I would suggest Plan A immediately. And that means stopping all lovebusting, stopping all the unattractive behavior like lecturing, crying, pleading. It does not work and only pushes her away. It makes the OM look more attractive. I will post some links and info about Plan A in the next post.

One of your most powerful weapons is EXPOSURE of the affair. The affair should be exposed to parents, family, friends, pastor, children. Your children should be told about the OM and should be kept away from him. The OM' wife and parents should be called. Affairs thrive on secrecy and fantasy, so your exposure is like turning on the lights on the crack house. No one likes to get high while everyone is watching.

Who is the OM? Have you spoken to his wife? Have you called his parents? Have you told your children the truth about the affair?

How to Survive Infidelity: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

Plan A and Plan B: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

Plan A outline:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Hi everyone and thanks for the response!

Yeah, it is kind of hard on the eyes, huh! lol!

I realize that I've been doing a lot of things wrong and I have read 'love must be tough' 'the five love languages' and a number of other books but I will be getting the 'Surviving An Affair' book and I will read it.

Our children have been told and at first she lied to our son about it but later admitted there was someone else involved after I had told him. Our daughters are hurt and very dissapointed to put it nicely. They noticed her behavior and habits change after she told me she wanted to leave. I've told her mother but she has a very bad relationship with her mother to begin with and hadn't spoken to her in a long time but strangly she is now in contact with her mother after she broke the news to me. Her mother and I have spoken several times and she is very much against her daughters plans. Since the relationship between mother and daughter is strained already, her mother is loving her contact and doesn't want to push her away.

Unfortunately, I don't know the other man's family or ex-wife but I have told my family and also told others in her family. Who strongly disapprove of her actions.

Since she has moved out how should I implement plan A? I have been working hard on getting my/our finacial stuff straight and working on improving things around the house but I really have been pretty good about home improvement for a while. We have a nice home. I have the car for sale and plan on selling another auto right after that. I have lost weight due to stress and I'm wearing the size pants I was wearing in high school! I've been in pretty good shape most of my life but I have been pumping iron. I just don't know if I should be calling her or not. Should I just wait for her contact and then be kind, loving and polite or should I be trying to contact her? It just seems I should wait for her contact and show her the love I have for her but you here have so much more experience.

I did go see a lawyer first and got some good advice but I haven't done a separation agreement. She says the only thing she wants is the van everything else would be mine but she doesn't want any of our current obligations; loans/medical bills/car payments/house paymt./college loan paymt. She just wants out and no comittment or obligations however, she does want me to keep her on the auto and health insurance.

I truly love this woman with all my heart, we've been through so much together and I honestly thought that once the kids started their own live and moved on we could start back on each other.

We started early, we were married young and our first born became ill just 1 week home from the hospital with spinal menegitis. Bad case, our daughter was flown to MCV hospital in Richmond from a smaller local hospital. She is fine now but the first year was very very hard on both of us and our families.

Thanks guys and gals!

ding, ding, ding!! HUGE OPPORTUNITY! You MUST get ahold of his family and inform his wife and his parents. He may be married and is only carrying on an affair with your wife. If that is the case, you may be able to KILL this affair by exposing to her.

Exposing to his parents ruins her future hopes of joining his family because his family will be against her presence if they know she is a married woman who has abandoned her H and children.

Go to www.zabasearch.com and www.peoplefinder.com and look up the OM's name. See if there is a wife listed and call her. There may even be parents listed. If you can't find his parents this way, we can recommend a PI who is very reasonable.

But this is a huge opportunity that you cannot afford to overlook.

Does she work? How is she supporting herself?

Fantastic....thanks! I will find out. I'm on a mission! OM is originally from this area, so, I'm sure I can find out his parents and I do know his name. Thanks again!

Should I be contacting her or just wait for her to contact me?

I would hold off on contacting your wife for a while and see if she contacts you. Lets see how long she takes to contact you and plan accordingly.

Out of the books you mentioned above, Love Must be Tough is the best, IMO, along with Dr Harley's Surviving an Affair. If you can't find it in a bookstore, they sell it cheap with cheap, fast shipping.

Also, if you have OM's home phone # it is easy enough to disguise your # with *67 and call there and ask for Mrs Scumbum. See what happens when you do that.

I find it very suspicious that he lives out of state and is planning on "moving to VA in a year." That sounds like a man who has something to HIDE.

Also, I think you have a distinct advantage in any potential D proceedings becuase of her adultery. When you file seperation, I would strongly suggest you file on grounds of adultery and have the OM called to the stand to give testimony. You should hire the meanest SOB attorney you can. Your wife should find it extremely HARD to divorce you.

If you cooperate with any divorce proceedings, you will find yourself divorced. The best thing you can do is make it HARD [reality check for your wife] and DRAG IT OUT. Her affair is DOOMED so your goal is to drag it out longer than the affair.

Thank you Melody,

My wife does have a job now and she has worked at different jobs for as long as we've been married. She just doesn't stay at one job very long.

And, yes, that is very suspicious about his year wait to move to VA. I have his home number and I'll do that. Thanks.

I'm logging off for the night but I'll be checking in tomorrow. Thanks again.

Hello all,

On my way to work this morning I passed my wife on the road. This is the first time I've passed her on the way to work but I knew it would happen sooner or later. I don't even think she realized it was me but she was on the phone and laughing as I passed her. I didn't wave or anything but just seeing her on that phone and laughing and smiling was very depressing. All kinds of things went through my head but I gathered myself and figured she was on the phone with someone from her place of work since she is supposed to be at work at 8:30 and it was 8:30 when I passed her on the road. Maybe, maybe not...it's really hard to see that.

Anyhow, some more information about our marriage. We've been neglectful for a long time by not meeting each others needs and to be honest, my wife and I haven't kissed intimately in a long long time. Just a simple peck here and there. I realized about a little over a year ago that I needed to try to move our relationship in the right direction. Be more loving, listen better, and the like but she made me feel rejected and unloved because she was unreceptive to my attempts. We did enjoy each others company and had started going out once in a while but the spark was definitely not there and I feel our constant struggle financially was severe on both of us and our relationship.

It doesn't appear that you all had that great of a M pre-A, plus your children either are or are nearly adults. Given her fogged up offer above, I believe you have a golden opportunity to rid yourself of an unworthy WW, and make a clean start for yourself. I think I would consider this option very seriously. You likely won't get this opportunity again once you start with the "fireworks" everyone else is suggesting.

The more I'm around this site, the more I see Plan D as the "best" option in a majority of the BH/WW cases. Fogged up WW's are too often ready to simply "give the store away" to go off in search of their "soulmate" ... that gives you a clear advantage in settlement negotiations that shouldn't be discounted.

Well, to be honest, it was in the dumps but I feel we can regain what's been lost and I truly want to try and save my marriage. Like I said we've been married 21 years and I love this woman with all my heart and we've been through so much that I absolutely don't want to throw it all away now.

I want to work on my marriage and I told her it was in her hands now.

I definitely see your point, though ragarding that option but I pray she will give our marriage a chance.

Fair enough ... its your life to play out however you see fit.

BEFORE you make any decisions though, please look within yourself for the honest answers to these two questions:

1. Was your M pre-A good enough to be "WORTH" trying to recover?

2. Now that you know the level to which your WW is willing to lie and cheat on you ... Is she "WORTHY" of the amount of effort it will take to potentially recover from her deception?

It is my position that not all marriages are worth recovering, and not all WW's are worth keeping ... its your call.

Only you can honestly answer these questions, but they're important in determining which path you should follow. Now is the time to lead with your "head", rather than your "heart".

Below is a letter I drafted and much of it taken from ideas and a letter in the book 'Love Must Be Tough'. I intend on giving her this letter perhaps in a month or so, possibly with revisions. Of course if you've read that book, my letter may seem too harsh, I'm not sure but when I wrote it some of my hurt and anger went into the letter as you will see. What do you pros think? Perhaps too harsh...?

WW,

It’s funny how a person loses all perspective when he’s so close to a problem. Things become blurred and it becomes difficult to see things clearly. That has happened to me in recent weeks but I’ve been able to pull back from our difficulties and I see everything more clearly now. I’ve realized how foolish I’ve been since you decided to leave. I’ve watched, along with our children, as your behavior and habits have changed. Your suspicious actions led to me tracking your phone and internet usage as I’m sure any normal concerned spouse would do. You’ve betrayed my trust in you as you and your new “friend” had even resorted to using someone else’s phone in an attempt to hide your actions. This man was not sent to you by God and if you search your heart you will know this is true. You’ve lied to me and our children. You’ve insulted and disrespected me. And one of the most disrespectful and insulting things to me and the children was him sending a phone to our house for you to use and having our children sign for it. He might as well have sent you flowers. Perhaps that was next for the courier to deliver. And I won’t even go into the ridiculous love letter he gave to you; a married woman. I can assure you I would never leave my children so many miles away for any woman, not even you. You continually try to justify your actions by blaming me and citing my faults and short-comings, I suppose to absolve yourself of the guilt you feel for what you are doing. But you precipitated what is going on with you and that guy. Don’t get me wrong, I’m fully aware that what has happened is a result of a marriage in trouble but by no means does that excuse what you’ve done. I guess I’m no longer special to you. I’m now just an acquaintance. Someone you may speak to in passing.

You pledged eternal love and commitment to me on our wedding day but now you can’t seem to find it in your heart to re-commit to our marriage. WW, I know in my heart that our marriage is worth saving but it must be incredibly hard now for you to see things between us as fixable when you have such a stand-up “different kind of guy” waiting in the wings for you. This past couple of months has been painful beyond words for me. I suppose I loved you so much I was willing to beg and plead and make promises and look away as you continued your affair with another man. Well, you’ll get no more of that from me. And you ask me not to humiliate you. I guess it’s best if you do continue on the path you’ve chosen. I’d rather live life alone than be just an acquaintance, as you’ve made me feel. I haven’t been the perfect husband, for sure and I’ll be the first to admit it, and I guess it’s easier for you to lay all blame on me for our problems but my love for you was true and no other woman has touched my heart and possibly never will as you have. I was the one beside you all these years and you treat me like a stranger now.

I’ve waited for you, WW, and hoped that you and I could begin to give to each other as the children began to make their own lives and move on but now you find comfort and confide in people you hardly know. I pledged my life and love to you and the vows we took before God mean something to me. If in the future you want to be my wife then we’ll talk about it. I make no promises, however. I’m doing everything possible to remove you from my heart, to spare myself any more pain. It’s not going to be easy; you were my only love-the only one I ever wanted. God bless you, WW. I will miss you.

All,

should I send my wife the letter I posted or wait for a while to see if she contacts me first? Does anyone think the letter is too harsh or should be revised in any way?

Thank you all so much.

wats:

Do you know what a Disrespectful Judgement is?

I just read the first line of each of your paragraphs.

And that's what I read.

Your WW will not even read the rest.

So your letter would be pointless.

There are examples of Plan B letters around here. But the Plan B letter is a "Love Letter" at it's most basic. You profess your love and your desire to keep it intact and to do so you need to go dark.

Your letter above is just...?

Nothing wrong with making sure she knows she is at fault. But she already knows that.

You want her to read a letter from you where she might be motivated to MOVE BACK IN.

Big difference.

LG

Wats, there are alot of lovebusters in that letter and it is my opinion, and Dr. Harley's, that you don't want to go dark with that kind of taste in her mouth. Dr. Harley recommends what we call a Plan B letter, which is a love letter that tells her a) you love her, b) you are ending all contact with her and c) gives her a path back. The tone of the letter is really critical because it will be the last reminder she has of you before you cease contact.

I would also suggest cutting it shorter. A detached wayward is not inclined to read through that whole thing. Here is an example that I would suggest: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897