Mel,

Yes she knows about the affair but she will be of no help whatsoever. Especially now that WW has been in contact with her. WW had wanted nothing to do with her mother until this happened. Now she is seeing her and speaking to her.

Wat, did you read what I said about getting intel on the OM? I cannot EMPHASIZSE enough how important this is. It is very common for married people to lie about their marital status in order to carry on affairs. You may have a powerful weapon in your hand that can be used against this affair. Exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer and you cannot afford to forgo this weapon. Please look into this.

I don't believe the OM has any plans to move in with your wife and I suspect there may be good reason: he is married.

I did read it and I will find out and expose. Thanks for the push, Mel!

Okay, troops. Some new info and I need a bit of guidance, here, pls!

My WW had our son over the weekend and when he returned last night he stated he starts in-car testing for his license and it has been scheduled to begin this Thursday. He has been chomping at the bit to get in-car testing. My WW called the driving school and scheduled it without contacting me and she scheduled it to begin Thursday. When my son announced this last night I was a bit aggravated because it was not discussed with me and I then asked my son if she was going to pay for part of the in-car testing. He said he didn't know and I said 'okay don't worry, I'll take care of it.' I then get a call from WW a few minutes ago and apparently our son had called WW or vise-versa and told her that I was asking what part she was paying for. We spoke on the phone for a minute but the call was breaking up. WW said she would call me later after she got off work to discuss. How should I proceed when she calls? She also texted me and it read as follows:

"How much of the driving school fee do you expect me to pay? Will have to give it to you next week."

Thanks all for the help!

How much do you want her to pay?

ALL OF IT!! hahaha!

Seriously, she should pay a portion but she doesn't make nearly as much money as I do, so, I told her I would take care of it and she could pay some on it if she wanted. After I posted I had to leave work and on my way home (I'm home now) she called me. We talked and laughed for a while about how it was a misunderstanding. Our son had failed to tell me that the in-car class had not been green-lighted yet by WW and she said she told him that her and I would have to talk about it. We did and we also talked about some other business and she seemed eager to talk.....me too...but it was all business and children type talk....some laughter and joking but I told her that we needed to get our taxes done and ironed out and then I laughed and said 'then we can get some other things ironed out'...she replied 'like what other things'...I laughed a little and said..'oh...I don't know, WW.' There was a pause and then I said 'I have to go.....take care of yourself'

Do you think I handled the situation okay? I feel I should wait until she contacts me regarding our relationship. I don't think I should be pressing any issue that involves marriage talk with WW. It's so hard though because everytime we talk I want to work things out and talk about us. I don't and haven't but, God help me, it's so hard. She seems so nonchalant about the whole situation that it drives me insane.

BUMP

Ya, I think you did ok with it Wats, you Plan A until you're convinced that you've identified your problems within the M and feel you've shown that you know how to fix them, and for as long as you think its having some kind of effect (thats more my personal philosophy, MB doesn't explicitely say that!). Part of Plan A is not pushing M talk on a WS. You want to be the guy she fell in love with.

Now try to not erase your efforts with a LB filled explosion!

Thanks, Tyk, I haven't been talking relationship with her for a while now and I'm kind of hesitant to initiate contact and ask her to lunch/dinner. I guess because I feel she will decline the invitation in part and because I don't feel I'm strong enough yet to spend time with her without showing and expressing how hurt I am right now. I want her to feel comfortable with me and I'm not sure she can right now.

I believe you ask, and ask often. Don't be pushy about it, accept the "no" with not visible effect. Part of what you should be trying to do is get some time with her, its hard to Plan A from a distance, so be thinking of things she likes to do, also be thinking of things that aren't a big deal, casual, non-threatening stuff, stuff that it will seem unreasonable for her to NOT join you for.

"oh hey, you're going to WalMart? I need dog food! Hop in! Wanna stop for a sandwich on the way?" kind of stuff.

I understand what you're saying, Tyk, and thank you for your advice.

It definitely is hard to Plan A from a distance. Her apartment is several miles away. The only way I can see getting face time with her is when she picks/drops our son off. I will have to call her to ask her to do something with me, I would be going out of my way to stop by her place of work, so she may feel I'm being pushy if I do that.

What I find hard is I get conflicting advice from reading some things. For instance 'Love Must Be Tough' recommends for no reason should you phone or contact a separated spouse other than for necessary business matters but here I get do a strong Plan A first then go dark in Plan B.

I think that advice from "LMBT" suits the MB Plan B. I haven't read it so can't really say anything about it, maybe some others that have can help you correlate that with MB.

What I do know is that MB says that ideally Plan B should follow a strong Plan A.

I get the sense that you really are not in a PLAN, but are trying to cobble together bits and pieces from different sources and its confusing you (understandably so).

Plan A: you identify your failures in the M. You fix them, you SHOW your WS that you have identified them and are fixing them. You stop all lovebusters, you seek to meet as many of your WS ENs as you are able to, you expect NOTHING in return. You attack the A at every opportunity.

Plan A often doesn't work. It is to be followed by Plan B. The purpose of Plan B is to protect yourself from your WS abuse, to attempt to save what little love you have remaining for the WS should they choose to come back to the M. Plan B involves the the BS ceasing to meet ANY of the ENs of the WS. Forcing the WS to get those needs met by the OP, or not. The idea is that usually the OP is not meeting ALL the WS needs. They are usually only meeting a couple ENs that were not being met by the BS. In forcing the OP to meet all the WS ENs, it usually becomes apparent that they are not able to. This is decribed as bringing REALITY to the A. Its no longer a fantasy cobbled together by those couple ENs. Affairs usually cruble under the weight of reality. A crucial part of Plan B is the Plan B letter, in which the BS outlines thier conditions that must be met in order for the BS to consider attempting recovery with the WS. This is done to protect the BS from false recovery attempts. It is also a way for the BS to take back some control of thier lives. The BS is able to move forward knowing that they have outlined what they need to happen in order to reengage with the WS, and can proceed with thier lives knowing that they no longer need to torture themselves dealing with a WS that is not willing to invest in the M.

Something that I think many BS do is see these plans as an attempt to manipulate the WS into reacting in the way that they want, and they get discouraged when that doesn't happen. This is not really the purpose of the plans. In essense, the plans are ALL about the BS. Plan A: identify and fix your failures, SHOW the WS that you have done this. Plan B: remove yourself from abuse and begin living your life without the WS while giving them the roadmap back.

Sorry to go "back to basics" with you WATS, it may not be what you're looking for, I just sense you are confused and you seem to be "in between" plans, which I believe may be the absolute worst place for a BS to be.

Finally, through all this, you conduct yourself with truth, honor, and integrity. You remain true to yourself, your values, and your purpose.

Exactly right, Tyk. I'm not in a true plan of any sort because of conflicting information and advice. I strongly believe in a lot of the things and advice you've given but what I feel is going to be extremely hard is my WW seeing that I have made changes and recognized my short-comings in our marriage. Since it will be very difficult to get real QT with her as she will most likely reject any attempts to get together for any reason. LMBT, which is an excellent book on this subject, recognizes there will be a time of begging and pleading and crying for reconciliation in the marriage but then suggests the BS needs to regain respect and must change his/her demeanor altogether showing strenght and fortitude in the face of adultery but to ensure not to act in unloving ways. During this time, which I see as Plan A, BS must, as you say, fix themselves and regain respect by standing up for themselves and eventually make the WS feel they may not be able to get BS back (Plan B), thus creating a longing for something they can't have. I think it's the same basic principle but states the BS should not contact the WS.....that's where I'm conflicted.

Thanks, Tyk

Actually, I would consider myself in Plan A as far as getting myself and my finances in order and I have been polite and kind when I do speak to WW. The only thing is that I am not initiating any contact with WW. I recognize the changes that I need to make and I'm working on those things. Like you said, though, she won't see the changes unless we are together and I suppose I should try to get that QT any chance I can but I don't want to seem pushy...perhaps ask her to do something once a week but if/when she declines just accept it and politely end the conversation.

Okay, I sent my WW a text message and it read as follows; 'You were in my dreams last night. You wouldn't let me touch you and then you were gone. I couldn't find you for so long but when I did, you let me hold you and you held me too. I love you and I miss you.' I'm not sure if it was okay to do that and perhaps it was....I am in Plan A....any thoughts on this? The last text I sent her was sent on Feb 22nd but that was more of a pleading text as Mel and Tyk pointed out. The Feb.22nd text I sent to WW is a few posts back. Any advice is welcome.

That text doesn't seem particularly productive to me. Mainly because its really doesn't say anything, and a WS is likely to interpret something like that very differently from the way you intended.

What have you done recently to show your WW that you can be a good H? What have you done to disrupt the A?

You claim you are in Plan A, I am not really sure that is the case, or at least, you aren't in any kind of Plan A that is likely to be effective. I believe that after a time, ineffective Plan A behavior comes to be seen by the WS as weak, it causes the WS to actually LOSE respect for the BS and becomes in effect a LB. I don't know if you are there yet WATS, but I worry that you are cobbling together bits of different plans in order to create "comfort zone" for yourself that justifies, even causes, inaction.

Hi, Tyk,

I have exposed the A to all but what could I possibly do to show WW I can be good H when she doesn't live at home and I don't see her. The things that I can do, I am doing, such as paying for my son's driving school and taking care of our children and our finances. I did plan on asking her to a movie or dinner this weekend. I haven't been begging, pleading and crying when we speak for some time. How should I be showing her those things?
Thanks for the guidance.

up

Any other advice other than inviting her to do things together and being kind and loving when I do get to see her? Mel has suggested I wait to see if she contacts me but, Tyk, you tell me to invite her to do things and ask often. I think I am doing everything a Plan A would be other than initiating contact, like you suggest, Tyk.

All other advice is welcome and I thank you.