Hi all, I'm a newbie here (posted once before in another forum). I've been reading up a storm and have a question about how to interact, if at all, with suspected OW (possible EA going on for at least a year, maybe more, which H refuses to acknowledge as inappropriate or put a stop to).
My thought is that, since OW is not a friend to the marriage (refuses to acknowledge my presence in his life, has met with him behind my back, tried to talk him out of marrying me, etc.), I would make my presence felt by inviting her and her husband out with us. Basically, I will not be ignored, and she has to understand that he and I are a total package, and that she can no longer order him "a la carte." Does this make sense to anyone? Has anyone else out there had experience in trying to insert themselves in the (inappropriate) friendship? Any thoughts and advice would be so appreciated, as I am starting to feel more and more desparate about this situation. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
p.s. I love my husband and want to protect the M

The answer to your question is yes. Many of us have successfully inserted ourselves between the OW and our husbands.

But not the way you are suggesting.

It is one thing to suggest getting together with an OW or suspected OW to gauge WS reactions, and quite another to plan to integrate her more fully into your lives.

You want her out of your lives, not farther into them.

If it were me, I would tell OW and her husband that since OW (would Suspected Other Woman be abbreviated SOW?) is not a friend of your marriage, you will not have her as a part of your life. List the specific things she has done.

Keep in touch with her husband without her knowledge, but being very careful to limit this as you are both vulnerable right now, and the last thing you need is a double-affair.

Then start in on Plan A.

You are not wrong to feel desperate. You can sense your husband slipping away and you want to stop it. But your best chance of doing that is by following the Plan A/Plan B progression.

It will probably get much uglier before you are through, but your chances of reconciliation are good.

Hiya Neak,
Thank you so much for your good advice. I have suggested to my H that we should get together with OW and her H, and he seems amenable to it--although when push comes to shove there is always some reason why he doesn't want to call her and actually make the plans (too tired, doesn't feel like dealing w/ her right now, etc.). So I figured I'd take matters into my own hands and ask her/them myself. My thought was that if she realizes I am on to her, so to speak, maybe she'll back off. Sort of like how some women, when they sense "danger" from another woman, become very present--sidle up to their husbands, link arms with them in front of her, etc. It's a bold statement that "this man is mine, and he will not go gently into that good night." (Of course this begs the question of why H is allowing the R himself, but he claims they are just friends--oh and he is also godfather to her child...talk about a way to get your claws into someone FOREVER.) *sigh*
p.s. H is always saying what a bad marriage OW has w/her husband, and how her H is attracted to me. So weird...

Once this is over, he will need to un-godfather himself. Sad, but one of the needed side effects. Your marriage is far more important.

IMO, you already have enough of his reaction to have the info you need to know, without going through with a meet. Blatantly marking your territory in front of her will not have the desired effect.

Don't focus on her, beyond what I suggested to expose to her husband with her knowledge of what you said. (An email sent to both at once would be best, avoid face-to-face drama if you can help it.) Focus on you, and focus on your husband. This is likely to be a long battle, but if you go into it knowing that you won't be surprised. The important thing is knowing you can win.

One of the interesting things about my story is how long, prior to MB, I spent stuck trying to prove that they weren't really just friends like he claimed. I wore myself out trying to prove it outside the text messages, which I didn't want to give up as a source of intel.

Once I found MB, I realized it didn't matter if he said they were just friends. She was a threat to the marriage either way, and had to go.

So don't bog in the 'just friends'. Don't make ultimatums, either, but you can express it to your H "Our marriage will only survive if we are both willing to protect it from anyone who could harm it. This woman is not a friend of marriage, not a friend of our marriage, and if our marriage is going to grow to be better than ever, she needs to be out of the picture."

Much different from "It's her or me - choose now."

Oh, and the comment about her H being attracted to you, the translation of that is: "I will feel a lot less guilty for what is going on with OW, if you will only cheat on me with her H. Then we can all be one big cheating happy family. And I won't have to choose."

Neak,
I see what you are saying about not getting bogged down in proof, although I do feel that I need it for my own sense of truth and reality. I always tend to doubt myself and my intuition (it's such an abstract thing, hard to get your arms around, so to speak). I would not mind at all if they were just friends (indeed, H has other women friends that I am fine with and have spent time with), but I do worry if there is stuff happening that I don't know about. (I found texts indicating that they were meeting for coffee, arranging to meet after work at the mall, etc, but I never found anything overtly sexual or anything like that. If I had, it would have been over in a second.)

BTW I just looked at H's phone records, and I saw a whole bunch of texts to and from one number on Valentine's Day, later on in the day around 6:30 or so. I also saw one text to an ex-girlfriend who lives accross the country and is married with kids. Of course, if I approached him about it, he could always just plead, "I'm just being nice/friendly," and there would be a part of me that would think, well it's possble. I just don't trust myself enough to torpedo my marriage based only on vague but pressing feelings that he is playing me. I need to know for sure. I guess I'm like Doubting Thomas, needing to put his fingers in Christ's wounds. lol
Thanks again for your help. I need to talk about this stuff to someone, but I can't talk to family (they would be devastated) or friends (they hate hearing it).
E

Your husband should not be texting other women any more than you should be texting other men. Your gut is screaming at you that this is a very real danger to your marriage, so please stop trying to ignore that signal or make it go away.

No married man should be spending time being "nice/friendly" to other women - especially to ex-girlfriends. NOTHING good will ever come of that.

There is nothing wrong with your perceptions except that you are trying to ignore them or convince yourself they're wrong. They're not.
Mulan

Hi Mulan,
Thank you for your "take" on things--you're right, sometimes I really do discount my gut feelings. Either that, or I rationalize H's behavior and say stuff like, "Well I have male friends" (although I am not texting them on Valentine's Day!). I know he will say that it is my low self-esteem coming into play here, and of course he would be right. Right now, I have zero, because I feel as though I am not good enough to hold his attention exclusively. He has always been one of those guys who is attentive to women in general, and charming beyond belief. But he has always sworn he's been faithful, syaing stuff like "when would I have time for an affair? I'm always working or with you." But because I know he was meeting with her after work, etc., I guess that's not entirely true. I've told him I am not comfortable with the relationship, and I have asked him nicely to consider my feelings on the matter (that it makes me feel afraid, etc) but his response was that it is a non-negotiable. Since I told him this, I have been trying soooo hard to meet his needs, be attractive, have a life outside the marriage, etc., but maybe it's no use...

Yes, exactly.


Ed, a high school girl wouldn't fall for this line - "oh, if you just weren't so INSECURE, you wouldn't care if other women were around!" That's the translation of his "you have low self esteem" statement. He's hoping to make you feel guilty about being jealous, so you'll get off his back about his girlfriends.


Mine, too, though he always kept the boundaries up until he got to be a big shot in a very large corporate environment. Then he went from "attentive and charming" to full-blown Player.

Where does your WH work? What's his job title?


You do know that statments like that are right out of The Script, don't you? Mine said EXACTLY the same thing. Well, the answer is, when you spend upwards of 12 hours a day at work, and spend days or even weeks on business trips, it's no trouble to take an hour or two for an off-site private lunch with your attractive flirty co-worker - or to spend an evening with some office wh*re or six when you're on a trip.

Mine thoroughly convinced himself that ANYTHING remotely connected to work meant he was "at work" - even sitting in a bar drinking sake with his current bimbo coworker was "at work" since she was a coworker and they weren't on a date, they were having an "extension of the work day". So, he could tell me he was "at work" with a clear conscience and was enormously pleased with himself. This is how the wayward mind works.


Translation: "My fence-sitting is far more important to me than your feelings. I want both a wife AND girlfriends and THAT is non-negotiable. Take it or leave it."


This is Plan A, and yes, that's where you should start - but you must understand that cake-eaters and fence-sitters (like your WH) absolutely LOVE Plan A and the last thing it's going to do is change them.

That's why you must start making ready for Plan B right now.

If you understand nothing else, you must understand this: Your husband is NOT trying to "choose" between you and some other woman.

He has ALREADY chosen, and his choice is to have both a wife AND girlfriends. He will string you along and keep this going for as long as you are willing to be part of it.

That's why you need Plan B.

Also, please read these links:

http://members.aol.com/Relationshop/Definitions/gaslighting.html

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/109220/what_is_gaslighting_.html

Mulan

Ed, a high school girl wouldn't fall for this line - "oh, if you just weren't so INSECURE, you wouldn't care if other women were around!" That's the translation of his "you have low self esteem" statement. He's hoping to make you feel guilty about being jealous, so you'll get off his back about his girlfriends.

ya, I'm probably as gullible as they come, but again there is some truth in what he says. I DO have low self-esteem and have been working on it for years, but certainly this situation is not helping any! lol

Where does your WH work? What's his job title?

He is an attorney, and the OW was instrumental in getting him into the somewhat insular law community in our state's county. I'd rather not say where, tho, for security reasons.


This is Plan A, and yes, that's where you should start - but you must understand that cake-eaters and fence-sitters (like your WH) absolutely LOVE Plan A and the last thing it's going to do is change them.

That's why you must start making ready for Plan B right now.

If you understand nothing else, you must understand this: Your husband is NOT trying to "choose" between you and some other woman.

He has ALREADY chosen, and his choice is to have both a wife AND girlfriends. He will string you along and keep this going for as long as you are willing to be part of it.

That's why you need Plan B.

thank you, Mulan--maybe you're right. I just wish I had hard and fast proof. Otherwise I will never trust only my gut feelings enough to proceed with a potentially devastating move that could end my marriage. This is all so confusing...