We are doing ok, but it seems we may be getting in to a "status quo" rut. I feel like I really want WW to do more to actively recover our marriage, but I don't really know what specifically I want. Does that make sense?

She has told me that she's sorry and that she "made a mistake". But I feel like she's a little dismissive, and I don't view it as "a mistake". I could see a ONS as that, but the months and months of lies deceit and interaction with him are far more than that in my estimation.

I want to talk to her about how I feel. I want to share some of my concerns about the affair and about her/ us moving forward, but it seems that when I try, she gets defensive and starts justifying again which triggers me back to her old "affair" ways and doesn't seem to get a positive result.

I've tried telling her that what I'm doing is not an attack, or intended to make her feel bad, but I need to get some of these things out, but it usually doesn't work so well.
At this point I think I'm just defaulting to "no R talk" to support her WD, but at some point I'm going to need to get through this or I don't think we can get really better. I still have huge trust issues.
I fear a repeat not because I think she wants to do that, but I don't think she's got an idea about her behavior sending the wrong signals, men generally are willing to say whatever they think a woman wants to hear if they think they can bed them, and her not really being as street smart as she thinks she is.
I also can't seem to let go of wanting her to recognize that RB is NOT the nice guy she thinks he is. She was essentially pried apart from him. Didn't really decide to do it for us, but I think it just became too difficult, and I truly believe she has strong feelings for him that she may carry forever.
As her husband I take the role of protector to heart, and want her to understand who she's dealing with. She just doesn't see that. BTW, I found out that he was hitting on another former co-worker while his wife was out of earshot.What a POS! She (co-worker) also only knew part of the story between them. Of course RB's version, and what a controlling husband I am.... Co-worker also implied that "everyone" at work knew something was going on between them. I'm certain WW doesn't realize that she appeared to her co-workers as a tramp. "I like flirting".... There's a diffrence between innocent flirting and acting like a ******. I don't want people thinking my wife is a ******. I wish she could see this and showed some self respect. I've always found attractive women who show some class and don't try too hard, to be very sexy. Trampiness doesn't do it for me, but clearly appeals to the lowest common denominator in men. Anyway....
I am struggling with this one as I haven't said anything about him in a long time, but part of me still really wants her to understand.
Sorry, I'm rambling here, so I'll stop for now.
I want to feel safe with her again, and I don't. I want to feel like she's trying to make it up to me but I don't. I want to know that she's remorseful for what she did, not for how I feel but I don't.
Do you have any suggestions on how I can break through to this next level? Or how she can?
It's been 7 weeks since NC started, and I am hoping that we can start working on understanding how to get through this from an understanding / repairing/ A proofing standpoint.
I need to see and feel her attempting to regain my trust. It's not there and I want it back.
Maybe I should focus more on the positive aspects of our sitch, and I do realize things could be worse, but I want a full recovery and a thriving marriage...

Trytoo,

Have you and she ever done any marriage counseling?

A good MC therapist can start the communication and keep it on the right track, directing it to the concerns you want to share and speak about about how you feel and at the same time acting like an intermediary between you both so your wife does not feel the need to become defensive.

If she refuses, well that's a bad thing.

IMHO

kirk

I see you had several attempts at NC, why did it happen this time? Are you sure that NC is in place? What were her reasons for agreeing to NC? What has she said she wants from the M? What do you want from the M?

I'm asking those questions because recovery really can't happen until she really is in NC and past WD. IMHO, a decent indicator of being out of WD is when the WS starts looking a little towards the future as opposed to raging about the past.

Do you have a recovery plan?

What are your options in terms of MC?

I ask because it sounds like you need a recovery plan and I think that recovery plan needs to fit with your situation. You can develop a recovery plan without your FWS's input for the short term, but I would strongly suggest you have help from a MC.

Even if your WW does not want to go to MC, you can talk to one who can give you ideas about what to do and when to do it.

That will answer the question of is it too soon, plus will probably help reduce your anxiety.

Remember withdrawal allways restarts after the last time NC is broken. Affair started about April 2007. Who knows when the PA ended the EA has continued, even if only on your WW's part, until the last time NC was broken.

WS's can not start recovery until they have gone through withdrawal. It is apparent that your WW has not finished withdrawing.

Continue to do the 180. Spend 15 hours a week for couple fun time. Show your WW that she is making the correct choice. That her marriage is the best place to be.
Making her safe and happy is what a WS needs to come out of the fog.

WS's are afraid to come out of the fog because they have justified that affair land is their safe haven.

Have patinence. It takes time.

MCs are only good if they focus on the here and now, and follow the MB principles. All Try needs is to get stuck with one of the many guru FOO fruits out there that want to spend all their time and money "exploring" her inner workings and what she was thinking when she was five. You know, helping her figure out exactly what Try did wrong that led her into the arms of another man...this part IS important, but needs to come a little later when she has made the necessary reparations and gets to a place of true contrition and is humbled by the way he has loved her through all this. After that happens, they BOTH need to examine what lead them to this point so that they can start meeting each other's ENs. But the minute he starts feeling like the MC is justifying her actions because of something he did wrong, he is going to freak!

Don't waste your money on a weekly MC...set up bi-weekly sessions with the Harleys. They will get you farther in 3-4 sessions than "regular" MC would, even if you went weekly for six months. They will give you specific tasks to do between sessions that will help you work your way through all this...ask Toomuchtoosoon how good they are at post WD/recovery!

Just don't try to do this alone...I see you starting the same pattern that Want2stay and I were in for almost a year, which almost caused the demise of our M even after the A was well over. She should be nearing the end of WD now, and you really need to call the Harleys ASAP!!

Hey Try...STOP TRYIN' TO EDUCATE YOUR WIFE!!!! She has to come to it on her own, enlist the experts to help her get there!!

Thanks to all who responded.
Sorry I haven't gotten back sooner.
LaLa - you just basically described the counselors we went through. The first told me point blank that you don't need to end the affair before working on our marriage (ie what I'm doing wrong...) The second was a little better, but still seemed to focus more on my "jealousy" and how I was reacting, than the F-ing affair itself.

As for the NC this time, well MIL got involved and called OMW to let her know what was going on. Not sure exactly what was said other than to know that she got the same story I did from OMW, that WW initiated the inappropriate relationship, OM hadn't called her at Xmas (verified that he did place the call) etc. He basically set things up so he could blame WW (which he did), and make me out to be crazy... Typical from what I've learned here. Anyway, OMW sent WW a scathing email telling her and her "crazy family" to stay away from OM's work etc. WW then sent a reply gushing about what a great guy OM is and how sorry she was.
I still am dealing with hurt and anger over that one...

Anyway, fast forward a couple of months, and the fog appears to be lifting somewhat, but I have put my needs for information and healing on hold to facilitate WD and need to get on to discussing these things with WW.

She still maintains contact with other co-workers which I feel is dangerous. She still wants to be "flirty" with people. Generally other than lots of ILY's and an occasional "I'm sorry", it feels like her attitude hasn't really changed much. Last weekend I was beside myself over her pissy attitude and short temper. I think she realized that I was upset, and the last few days she's been pretty nice. We do talk about our future together, I know she wants things to be better, but we don't have a plan. I do (MB), but she's not bought into it yet, and a session with Dr. H just isn't financially feasible right now.
I just have a lot of things that are boiling up inside that I know I need to get out with her, but am hesitant as I'm not sure she's far enough along in WD or whatever for it to be productive.
I guess I feel like I'm only getting scraps right now, which is much better than what was going on a few months ago, but I need more. She hasn't read the MANY books I have, and I don't think she has any idea about how much she has damaged me and my opinion of her with this crap. I want her to understand but I know I can't educate her.
Mrs W has been a help and spoken to her a few times which was REALLY helpful, but I can't expect her to be our personal crisis manager.
I'm rambling now.
You get the idea.
Any suggestions?
I feel like we're on the cusp of a "next" stage, and I need to figure out how to nudge her there...
(Slam away, Melodylane...)

Just changed my display name as it more accurately reflects who I am at this point...
T2H (Formerly TryTooHard)

Anyone out there???
Mr or Mrs W?
LaLa?
Anyone?

I beg your pardon?

I'm sorry Mel, I was anticipating a stirring "stop being a weinie" type of response. (Which frankly, I may deserve...)

Tryin...

If NC has been maintained, withdrawal is OVER and you should stop walking on eggshells around your WIFE...Print out the Emotional Needs questionnaire and have both of you fill them out...She isn't a mind reader, you are gonna have to tell her what you NEED...Don't lovebust, but you can tell her what it will take for her to begin EARNING back your trust...

On a sidenote, I gotta tell ya that I've come close to slappin' you silly in the past two days for your poking Mel with a stick...That is completely uncalled for imo, and will avail you NOTHING...To quote from the movie Stripes, "Lighten Up Francis"! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Nice to hear from you MrsW. I've been wondering how you and the hubby are doing. Did you get your mail?
I get your message about not needing to walk on eggshells. You're probably right. Any chance of a call to WW?

FWIW, I was not trying to poke Mel w/a stick. I'm not really even sure exactly what you're referring to. I value her opinion as much as anyone's. I tried to convey that to her, I guess unsuccessfully...
If she's pissed at me she should get over it. I harbor no ill will. I come in peace.

Anyway, thanks for checking in.

Perhaps I took you the wrong way yesterday and today then...From my POV, telling Mel that she was being condescending to you, telling others here (including myself & Mel) to take a "TIME OUT"-(you can't control others Tryin'-you'll find that to be an exercise in futility I promise), baiting her by acting like she was going to call you a "weenie"-which she has NOT ever done to my knowledge, and now acting as if she is pissed at you are all things in bad form...I certainly can't control you, but as your friend here, I would advise you against going down that road...Up to you of course...Perhaps, at this time, so very early in your recovery, it might be wise for you to avoid debates here...dunno, only you can decide that...No worries, I'm not mad at ya...just sharin' how I see things, k? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anyway...As for phone calls...See Tryin', I don't have a problem talking to your wife at all, however, at this juncture I REALLY feel that the ball should be in her court...I've called, we've talked a couple of times...I've called back and left a message...She and I have emailed back and forth-my last email to her even gave her my Yahoo chat ID-I've told her to call or email ME at anytime...You can lead a horse to water yanno??? I can't FORCE myself on her...And I don't think that is in your best interest at all...I hope that you understand what I'm saying...At some point she will have to do things towards your recovery on her own...And I think you do have to TELL her what you NEED...She is your wife...Be open with her...Don't try and teach her, but let her KNOW how hurt you are...She needs to see that, imo...

All the Best...

Mrs. W

Thanks for asking about myself and Mr. W btw...We are well...appreciate the good wishes...:)

I don't have the magic bullet or solution Tryin'...If I did, I PROMISE I would hand it out freely! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W