DO you have the book Surviving an Affair? I don't know if it will help you, but it explains a lot.

I am skeptical of his commitment (partly because of my own past). He said that he wasn't sure he was supposed to be with you. Now he wants to work on the marriage. What changed? Was it just the idea of not having you and the kids? I think you need to explore that part more because there has to be some motivation for him saying that.

The book gives lots of advice but also explains a lot about how As start and how they end. I think your DH needs to figure out why he allowed OW so close in the first place. What did he get from her that he isn't getting from you?

And a NC letter is essential. Not just for her but for you and your H to know the intentions. I really think you guys need to get out of there. I know it sounds extreme, but if the devil were chasing you and you knew that you could move away and be safer, wouldn't you do it? You (you and your H) have got to make it impossible for her to connect with your DH. Whatever you have to do.

I'm sure that your H loves you. He sounds like he is simply unsure. Something is pulling him and if he can figure out what he is getting from the relationship with OW and not from you then you can work together so that he can find it in your marriage and not have to look elsewhere.

My DH and I are still searching for what he was getting from OW. At this point, we know that he could have what he wanted without having to meet her ENs. But I think it was more than that. And he is looking inside himself to find it.

Do you want me to change the thread title so that others will look here to help you? What are you afraid of? Would your H disapprove?

Oh, no, I'm not afraid of H knowing anything. In fact, I share these with him if I think there is benefit for him too. It's just that I was originally on another discussion forum and these women ripped me a new head for staying married and for 'hating' the OW. They treated me like nothing and I am simply nervous about them finding me. It was very emotionally destructive to have another human use your situation as fodder for their laughter and afternoon fun.
As for the 'I'm not sure you're the one for me..." we have discussed this ALOT. He sat with out deacon and thinks he responded that way because he felt I backed him into a corner by continuing to come at him with requests for answers. He did not know what to do so he struck back at me. We stink at arguing. Anyway, these are words I may never forget but wish to have them surgically removed from my brain. I am sure H loves me too, but his age, uncertainty about his job, questioning the fact that we won't have any more babies....lot's for him to digest and he's doing a crappy job at it. If you change the heading, I'm ok with that. But, I'm chatting back and forth on another area abuot the same issue...I think in the general discussion area under "How can I heal from HIS emotional affair?" I've gotten much help from snugglefresh and a few others. Thanks.

Glad to hear that you are getting advice from others too. I'd hate to think that I'm the best advice out there...lol. I'm just a complete wreck myself.

I know what you mean about surgically removing things from your brain. I made the mistake of asking DH details about thier PA and now I know more than I cared to know. And I can never un-know it. They say that your imagination is worse than whatever happened, but for me, this one part of their PA was way worse than anything else because it's something that I have always failed to do well for DH and she seemed to be good at it. Yuck. Don't want to think about that anymore.

I also feel the pain of being ripped on. I belong to WeightWatchers (got 25 pounds to go!) and I found a board that I thought would be helpful. The chicks there just railed on me about my weaknesses. I went there for support and found none. Not only that, but one of the chicks followed me to another board to make fun of me more. I just finally quit posting there. It wasn't worth it.

I'm glad that you've talked about the comment he made. It's important that he looks at why he said it and whether there is any truth in it. You can love someone and still not be sure about staying with them. My DH has felt that way through our entire marriage (apparently). He says that he was so careless in his A over the past four years because he kind of wanted to get caught, but didn't care enough to give it up. Talk about painful words.

But ya know what? A friend of mine called me yesterday and I was busy. He checked my phone and saw that it was a guy friend and admitted that he actually felt some jealousy...something that he has NEVER EVER felt with me. Maybe it means that he wants to protect what he has.

Don't get me wrong...I don't wish for a jealous H, but it shows me yet another new feeling he is experiencing and reinforces that he is changing.

We talked for about four hours yesterday. Lots of questions and answers, but I didn't really feel much resolution...whatever that is. I'm sure it was helpful in some ways, I just keep hoping that the next talk will be the "closure" to this whole event for me. I know, it's too soon. I just hate hurting like this.

Hey Robyn...
Today really stunk! H stayed home from work...there was so much promise but it fell through the cracks. Last night was great. The potential was there for horrificness but it worked out well. I printed out the questionnaires on this website and we sat together and did them. Then, we exchanged forms and talked about the results for four hours. This was very productive. There were a few times when we could have blown it into a real brawl, but we kept it all in perspective and got through it. And, it was good. Flash forward to the dreaded NC. Hmmm....we are soo not on the same page. Please don't tell me it's because he is still with her...I know he is not and I really just want an ear...not judgement. Sorry if that was harsh. But, we really are far apart of the wording of this thing. You should have heard his opening sentence. "it's come to my attention that our friendship is detrimental.....blah blah blah...Then, he ends with this great line. I wish that we no longer communicate!
Poop on him!!! That's not good enough. I want him to say you may not call me, email me, speak to me in person...for that matter -- I am dead to you! I think that pretty much sums it up. So, we made a deal. He's going to combine his version and my version and give me two options to choose from. He really believes that he's hit home with her and she knows not to call/email any longer, but so far his judgements about her have been wrong on every count. But, one good thing...he did send out a resume today. Have a good night. I'll check in tomorrow.

I think that in a way the NC Letter is a letter of admittance of wrong-doing for the WS. I know that for my DH it was hard to write. He said he felt like it was not just for OW, but also for me. And he had more to say than what I expected him to write.

I don't know that his reluctance means their together, just maybe he's not ready to admit how harmful this "relationship" with OW is to your marriage. He may just not be to the point of understanding that HE needs to end it, not that YOU want him to end it.

I think as long as it states the basics:
- Our (whatever he calls it) is harmful to my marriage.
- I love and respect my wife and children.
- I want to protect my marriage.
- I will NEVER contact you and I do not want you to contact me.
- Please respect this.

My DH added something about how nobody deserved to be hurt the way that I was hurting. And that there was no point going point/counterpoint with her, that the affair was over. But you know, my DH is a little further away from his A. He ended it almost four months ago and has been thinking about telling me for that long (if not longer). Your DH is still in the thick of it.

A NC Letter to me seems like it holds the potential for admitting guilt and feeling remorse, maybe your DH isn't ready for that part of it yet. I'd go with his version as long as it gets the point across that there can NEVER be any contact.

Can I ask you a personal question? Why do you call your H a DH? Doesn't that mean devoted husband or I am missing that lingo?
I'm not judging you, he may be devoted, it's just that my raw emotion won't let me refer to mine as devoted. And, the wayward thing is hard for me too. Too many labels and letters to learn.

I think of it as Dear Husband and to me he is still Dear. Yes, he has been Wayward and I suppose I could call him WH or FWH...but Dear is what he is to me. I wouldn't be able to feel good with Devoted (although he's showing a lot of devotion now).
R <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Good, I'm glad for you. Where is the OW now? Has she disappeared? My H submitted his first resume yesterday to a new job so I'm hopeful. My OW is still there. I really dislike her tremendously. Have you met yours? I actually had mine to dinner! Good lord!! Anyway, you seem like you're having a better day today. Let's hope tomorrow is good too. Do you work outside the home? I do not. The wench on the other forum told me that was my problem...no women should be without a job. I love raising my kids and could not imagine it any other way.

I actually tried to be friends with the OW in the beginning...and always hated it. And her. It was all part of the twisted gaslighting my DH did...trying to convince me that they were friends. We house-sat for them, we went to parties at her house, she even helped me plan my DH surprise party. The anger is tangible when I list these things. But not so much with him, more at her. It needs to be with him. He let me make a FOOL of myself. He says that they never talked about that, but it was still there. They were fooling me completely.

She lives in Oregon with her H and kids and we are in southern California. I taught for ten years and am now a PROUD stay at home mom. It drives me crazy sometimes, but I love it. It's the absolute best and most important job I have ever held.

don't you love that! Then, you look nuts because she's so "nice" and you did not trust her!
Last night we had another long 4 hour chat. These questionnaires have really gotten us thinking. But, we differ on a lot of things but we're learning where to make some changes. I'm going to really have to do some soul searching here because I'm not real good with change and I have a feisty temper. Love Buster for him! So, I'll work on it!
We did, however, come to grips with the wording on the NC. It's probably not quite as forceful as I'd have preferred, but it was direct and to the point...I could not ask for anything more. H does not see the relevance of this, but I've explained that its more for me and it is for him and will totally benefit OW since he's attempts at complete seperation have failed. She always finds new ways to excuse a call or email. Work party after hours tomorrow..H is not going! We need to start dating again. I really miss what we had, even if it was flawed, from before the intruder came into my life. He explained alot of things about what she would say to him last night and it made me a bit nauseous. Some people!!
Anyway, we'll see what happens next. What happened after the NC letter to your OW? Did she stop contacting or did she confront him to ask for clarification? I would bet a limb that this one will march right over to him and ask for clarification. I only hope he handles it the right way!
Have a good day...hug the boys.

I haven't heard anything from OW. And as far as I know, she hasn't contacted DH. He has blocked her from all email and says he won't answer if she calls. I have to trust that...hard, but a first step. I think she will eventually try to contact him, but I think she's probably hurt and angry right now.

We had our first MC session last night. It was good. The MC did a lot of questioning of our parents. I think he feels like a lot of our personal challenges relate to how we were parented. He dug into DH about his past and how he never learned to allow attachment. He also talked about how the A was a form of attachment, but for DH it was less important than for some. It was more companionship (we were on opposite schedules with him working nights with OW).

He told us absolutely NO Contact...likened it to an alcoholic hanging out at a bar. He told us to spend at least half an hour a day connecting alone and to get away once a week by ourselves.

I think the most important thing for me was that he made it clear to me that I don't need to "solve" the problems of the A before we can start to rebuild. That the discussions about the A will continue now and then, but that not every discussion needs to be related to it. It's ok to continue in a "normal" life, and by doing so, I'm not ignoring the A, but building the relationship more so that as issues of the A come up, we are prepared to deal with it.

DH thought it was ok...he wasn't thrilled, but I think it will benefit us both. MC told us that under our current financial situation, he would waive his fee until we could afford something. I'm not going to let free help go unused. At the very least, it will be once a week that we KNOW we will talk about things.

Fiori, be careful what you ask your H about the A...details aren't always the best thing. I asked a few too many questions at the start and I wish I didn't know them. I think it's better not to know every little thing that happened but just to know that it was wrong and go from there.

Hugs!

I agree about not asking too much. Sadly, when I ask, he tells! So, I learned that the hard way. And, I believe I badger him into saying things he would not otherwise say. And, I also have found that I validate the EA more than he does. He always tells me that in my mind its way bigger than it really was...that I have this impression that every waking hour of his day was spent with her and that he would not have his position at work if this was the case. I get that, really, on a good/rational day!
I like what MC told you about not letting every conversation be about A. I agree with it in theory, but it's hard to do. When i see a commercial or a tv show or magazine cover, there's always something there to remind me. Amazingly, he see none of this! Do you watch alot of tv? I do like to watch at night after a hot bath and I'm shocked how many shows are about cheating...I never really paid much attention before. Now, I find my blood boiling when it goes to that subject. So, as soon as baseball season begins I will watch that instead. We are big, big baseball fans here and watch every game on tv of our home team...goober, I know, but we love it. This is one thing we share and both love.
As for your finances, great that the Mc will offer this without charge. When we went it was $100 per week. H had a real tough time swallowing that. Especially because we did most of our talking in the car sitting in the driveway or Barnes & Noble after the appt. That was a huge benefit to us. IT made us talk. But, I get wary about all that parenting stuff. I'm an adult, H is an adult, why should our parents 'pay' for our mistakes? I know there must be some merit to the theory, but it seems like a crutch to me. My dad cheated and he was mean to the core. But, I'm actually a really nice person and I have no intention of ever cheating. Nature vs. nurture.
One more thing...was your NC certified mail?

NC letter went by regular post. I wonder who got it out of the mailbox (OWH or OW) but it doesn't really matter. A lot of the NC letter was for us, not her. Chances are, she got it. And if she didn't for some reason, it's clear in DH and my head that it's over. He will not communicate with her again...that is what HIS letter said.

And the OCD in me, I copied the letter and have it in my journal.

I agree about the parenting thing. I think the MC was more so trying to get at the problems that we each have that have facilitated the A, not as a scapegoat. In fact he reminded both of us several times that we are responsible for our choices, but sometimes it's helpful to understand the origins to change the actions.

I'm one of those strange families that has no TV. We gave it up about four years ago and haven't gone back. We have a TV and watch lots of movies, but have no cable connection, no rabbit ears, nothing from the outside.

I'm having trouble with music at the moment. There's this country song written from the perspective of the OW, talking about how she wants him to just stay and not leave her again to go home. It ends with her realizing that she doesn't have to be the OW and that she deserves better, but I can't stand the song right now. I have ABSOLUTELY NO SYMPATHY for the OW...only anger.

Hello to you today! I hope all is well. Quick question...do you still do the snooping thing? I understand the concept and have gotten quite good at it, but it feels weird sometimes. Today there is a party after work for a co-worker who is leaving (no, not OW). This particular person is very friendly with OW. The H is not going to the party. His choice, not mine, although I would have insisted not if he asked. Anyway, back on task...
I was painting and had a moment of fear. Did he go on the train or drive to work? If he drove, that means he's going to sneak to the party for a little while and then head home...Panic!!! So, I drove to train station and was releived to see his car there. I'm afraid I'm losing my mind a bit. But, we'll dwell on the positive, as today is "positive friday".

Holy cow...I hope you did alright while the board was down. I didn't realize how much I relied on it until it was gone.

I am really doing better with the snooping thing. I have panic moments like that to and yes, sometimes I check up on him. We have talked about it and he knows that he HAS to be an open book for me right now. That means that I have full snooping privileges without recourse from him. He brought it on himself with his behavior. As far as I'm concerned, he's guilty until proven innocent.

It's not a fun feeling though, so I try to trust him little by little. I know that eventually I have to get to the point where I trust that he will make the right choices without my watching. But I still snoop now and again.

Robyn

Hey Robyn...
That was a loooonnnnggg week! Welcome back. I, too, realized that I must come to this alot during the day. Actually, I was a bit more productive, though.
We're chugging along here. ACtually, we had a pretty good week. I freaked out a bit when I found out he called and left a messege on her home tape. She was at work when he called so he knew he would not get her, but he says he simply reiterated, strongly, that under no circumstances could she call our home and ruin yet another holiday. Basically, she has ruined every one since last year. H knew this was a tough weekend for me, as this is the one year anniversary of when he made his very first misguided decision and allowed her to come into my life. This was the first time he treated her NOT like a co-worker. And, to boot, it was her birthday! Tough!!! Obviously she had a support system in place long before she met him so she'll have to revert back to that. Once I got over my Friday, the rest of the weekend went well. I deemed it to be Happy Saturday and it seemed to work. I made a choice NOT to argue. He was very good this weekend and very attentive. Yesterday we had a great chat outside and he thanked me for perseveering with him through this 'stuff'. I just allowed him to thank me. What can I say? I'm so cautious but still optomistic too. I'm taking it one day at a time. So, I did think of you this week. Are you still going to counseling? Is it helping. Is your H much older than you? I don't know why, but I imagine him older than you. We'll chat soon.
D

My DH is actually a year younger than I am. I will be 37 next Monday and he is 35...then he likes to say that I'm two years older, but only for part of the year.

We are still going to counseling and it is helping a lot. Our counselor asks good questions and isn't shy about placing responsibility where it lies.

DH has made HUGE efforts to spend quality time with me alone and he has actually opened up immensely (something that he never really has done). He is compassionate about my needs and attentive to me. He is a completely different person. Not that he was a complete jacka$$ before, but he never really let me in. He is letting me in now.

The A is part of the healing and we have talked a lot about it, but also, we spend time just becoming closer friends...talking about our childhoods, our dreams, our thoughts. We are using the Personal History Questionnaire from here as a jumping off point for discussion. Rather than both do it separately and then share, we are working our way through the questions in a discussion format. It helps because this "connecting" thing is foreign for him.

Our 7 year old has started having troubles at school and I can't help but wonder if it's because of our problems. We aren't fighting (at all) but I'm sure that the emotional level is higher in the house. Our son has been lying a lot. I did make a snide remark to DH that he should handle it because "he has more experience with lying than I do." Just a little anger coming out.

If you ever want to send a direct email...my address is hicktownmommy@gmail.com.

Yesterday I got a call from my 12yr. old's music teacher. Apparently he's been "angry" at school and seems to have a bit of an issue with respect. Hmmm.... I, too, asked H to chat with him as I believe the timing is amazing. He's been acting out since this time last year, exactly when this all began. I feel sad for my kids because they have both made a comment as to how sad I always am. I try to remain upbeat for them, but it's not a good quality of mine. I'm simply not a good liar. Wow, how beneficial for my H!! Ok, sarcasm here too...it creeps in every now and again.
I'm trying sooo hard to take one day at a time. I've just read another posting by a man whose wife is in the beginning stages of an EA. It's strange to look back and realize that some day I may be in a position to offer guidance to another. Not yet though. Have a great day.

D

I'm driving to Portland tomorrow by myself (about 1000 miles). We have a truck to sell and a buyer up there. My dad and his wife live near there. I will try to drive it all tomorrow and then I fly home on Monday night (my birthday).

I'm a little nervous about being alone for so long. It seems like the waves of sadness/depression come mostly when I don't have other things that I have to think about...like the boys. 18 hours alone in a car is a lot of time to think.

Things are going well. DH and I are doing a good job spending time together each night just talking. Last night we talked about growing up. He was really a jerk as a teenager. I wonder why I never saw any of that when we met in his twenties. He just didn't seem to care about anyone but himself. It makes me a little nervous about who he is now...how far can he really grow from that teen?

I'll check in this weekend from my dad's place. He remarried after my mom died (12 years ago)and he and his wife had twins just last year (yes, I have siblings younger than my children, and yes, it's weird). I'm looking forward to spending time with my brother and sister. It'll be a nice baby fix.

OOOhhh, the dreaded alone time! Easter Sunday I woke up earlier than H and came downstairs to just be alone. Bad move...in the brief 30 minutes I was alone I had him divorced, re married and with a gaggle of more kids with OW. AAAAAAHHHHH...why do we do this to ourselves. So, I went upstairs, told him of my thoughts and snuggled a little more in bed. He was surprised and later apologized for not getting up with me. He sees that me being alone is not wise all the time. But, I'm a stay/home mom so there's plenty of time for that. Perhaps I should get a part time job. Hmm..we'll consider that later.
Anyway, as you journey, just know I'm thinking of you and trying to transfer good thoughts. I did not quite get a feel for if the boys were with you, but if they are not, this is the perfect time for a good cry -- no harm no foul. If you're alone, get it out. And, if necessary, talk to your family. I'm a horrible communicator with others (just not strangers!). I rarely include my friends/family in my personal stuff so I felt very isloated for the past year. Finally I included my MIL and she was a tremendous support. Lean on someone other than yourself. I'm here if you need to talk.
D