Long and complex sith, will try to break it down in 2 posts… First post is background info, 2nd one will be about the Affair. Please forgive me for the length, just trying to give as much info at first as I can. Here we go…

Together 14 yrs, married 12 1/2, first marriage for both of us, and 4 young girls (all ours). First couple years of marriage was ok; afterward all downhill. The beginning of our problems started with my ex-girlfriend. I must admit, she was a pain, calling the house making spiteful remarks, bugging us, immature stuff etc...

You see, I have a child with my ex, my first daughter, and that means there’s always gonna b some kind of contact... I did what I could to handle her... like telling her to back off, changing my house #, got a cell for only way of contacting me etc…like taking my wife along when picking and dropping off daughter etc… None of that satisfied wify, the way I handled my ex was never good enough. Keep in mind all that was at the beginning of the marriage, which means all that stuff has stopped for almost over 9 years now... My ex has gotten married, some 9 yrs ago, we don't even talk no more, cuz my eldest is 16 now, I deal directly with my D. The only acceptable thing for my wife, was to erase my past with my ex, which is not possible. I guess she never really accepted the fact that I father a child before I met her.

My ex is no longer a bother to us. To me I thought everything was cool. But for my wife, it is not so. As far as she's concerned, everything is like yesterday. She never got over my ex, and even accused me of messing around with her. Frankly that’s a problem, because my wife is extremely revengeful, and will do anything to get back at me. Unfortunately, there’s nothing I can do to prove to her that I’ve never messed with my ex. Besides, she has no proof I did anything. I told her over and over that she’s all the woman I love and need.

My life is totally run around my wife and our kids... My family is even a bit upset at me, cuz they feel like I abandon them. I barely go to family events, just to please my wife, cuz she doesn't like them too.

So right after the ex sith, she becomes very distant. She started reconnecting with old friends, guys and girls. She tells me little about her day to day activities, her whereabouts were none of my business… I confronted her, and it was ****** from there, ya know how it goes… We’ve gotten separated several times, once I came home from work, and the entire house was empty... No warning sign…I was devastated, crushed and felt violated…We did get back together 6 months later. I tried harder to please her, even seeing less of my eldest daughter, (which I’m ashamed to say), didn’t seem to turn things around.

The second time she left me was on our 10th anniversary. I came home with gifts and flower, and she was gone with all the kids, “on our anniversary”. She moved them 2000 miles away, out of town again, didn’t hear from them for a whole week. That time, she left everything in the house, didn’t care to take nothing. Once again, I was shocked, crushed, and devastated, my heart ripped in pieces. Funny twist is, she made love to me the night before she disappeared. I didn’t get it…and I still don’t…So I went nuts, felt lost, and distraught. I felt so empty that suicidal thought was raging in my head.

Six months later, she moved back again, mostly of me convincing her we could make it… I proposed counseling, at first she didn’t want to, but agreed at the end. We tried it, didn’t help any… She didn’t like what they were telling her to do in order to have a successful marriage. Everything was up and down again for another year, and then she decided that “moving out of town again and be closer to her sisters, was what she felt was best for her and the girls”… and that, it was a smaller town and very family oriented.

This time she didn’t surprise me, she just told me straight up that she’s moving out of town. I figured she’s gonna do it anyway, with or without me. So I said ok, made arrangement and helped them moved. She asked me if I would consider moving and joining them over there. It was a rhetorical question, since she thought I would never leave my hometown, where all my resources are at, family, career, friends etc... “Surprise” I told her yes I would. For a moment she seemed happy, then sad, and then scared. I didn’t get it and I still don’t. It’s almost like, she wants me, but then she doesn’t. They moved away; and I joined them months later. I left everything behind, hoping this would be the turning point.

Well guess what, it was… only not in the direction I wished for…

Continued on next post...

The Affair…

At this present time, wife is very distant, no conversation, no intimacy, she sleeps in her own room, I sleep in the basement, doesn’t tell me about her whereabouts, everything is none of my business, doesn’t care how I feel, what I think or say, treats me like crap, take bunch of so-called business trips. We don’t have sex, I can’t touch her, I get turned down every time I try. No sex, but yet she’s bought tone of sexy undies, “not for me, I said to myself”, cell phone glue to her body at ALL TIMES etc… u know, the typical ww behavior.

My antenna went up… So one day I did some snooping in her luggage after one of those so called business trips, and Bingo! , I found sexy lingerie, a wine glass, half burnt candle, and the biggest proof of all was that the hotel reservation receipt was under some guy name… Naturally, I confronted her, she Denied, Denied, and Denied some more, saying he’s just a friend. Actually, she even went on and CRUELLY laughed and mocked me, saying sarcastically “ Ohhhh, your poor little heart… that hurts, doesn’t it? How does that feel?” crap like that etc… I mean, she’s just evil and lost. So I withdraw trying to decide what the heck to do.

Since she denied the affair, I decided to get more concrete proof. A few days later, I got lucky. She made the fatal mistake of forgetting her cell. I went through it, the very first click, Bingo again. Text from her saying to the guy” oh babe, how much I need you right now”. The guy responding, “ you’re God sent… and blah blah blah”, sh*t like that etc… Enough said, to me it’s confirmed, she’s cheating and I don’t for how the heck long. But in her mind, she ain’t doing nothing wrong, and she’s not having an affair… She said if she wanted to leave me for another man, she would have been done that, since we’ve gotten separated twice, 4 and 6 months duration.

My State of mind

Knowing what I know now from Dr. H. I realized I failed to meet several of her emotional needs few years into the marriage. I guess making her feel secure was important to her. According to her, I didn’t do a good enough job standing up for her, when my ex was acting up. I also realized I did a lot of love busting reacting to the way she treated me. I never hit her, but I’ve had some angry outburst and called her a few names.

I try plan A Big Time. Doesn’t do any good. I get discouraged and frustrated. I make it very hard for her to ride the fence. She told me she would stop the inappropriate friendship with OM, for her own self respect, but not for me. Unfortunately, I have no way to verify if she stopped. She told me she’s sure the marriage is over, and that we’re too incompatible, and that we’ve tried too many times and never got anywhere, and for me to just move on.

When I said I agreed, and began talking about moving arrangement, she panics and puts everything on hold, like she’s not ready to talk about that yet. So I make my move to make the most of plan A, then she pushes me away. She’ll do everything she can to remind me that she’s done with me. She won’t let me meet any of her E needs. She treats me like crap. Deep down inside, I believe it is over. I can feel it deep down her soul that, that’s what she really wants. I can’t figure her out though; one day she pushes me away, the next she’ll ask me to hold her. Sometimes I don’t feel like holding her, but I try not to love bust further. She’s in control, I’m like her little puppet…

I know a good plan B would give her a nice wake up call. But I can’t just take off, leave them and do a good Plan B, because financially and physically (4 kids), it’ll be too hard on her. We both have good jobs, but we’ve made some very bad decisions in the past that put us in debt. Splitting up right would be a financial burden to all of us.

I don’t know anymore… some days I just wanna take off and leave everything behind. Others, I wanna tie another knot and hang on to that last rope. I don’t know if she’s just playing me, or if she’s just as confused and undecided as I am. Her word says it clearly, that she’s done with me. But her action sometimes says otherwise. I bought His needs Her needs, Love Busters and a couple DVD from the Harley’s. She doesn’t touch none of them. She purposely stays away from anything that can bring us back together. She says she’s protecting her heart. I’m worried about the girls, they are so attached to me. They’re hurting too much already. When is it the right time for a man to call it quit? When do you know for sure it’s time to give up? Is there any hope for this marriage, or is anything that’s left is “me and my fantasy”? Is there any light left?

Cuz I’m lost in this tunnel, and wondering how do I get out?

Sco

That is one painful scenario you've written there. First off it appears she's been cheating for sometime. This most recent guy is probably not the only one. I'm sure you've thought that. She is so foggy and detached, it really would take a very dark Plan B to have a chance. You are meeting some of her ENs. Could be financial or domestic support, but it's something that's important to her.

Right now if you do nothing, you're enabling her to continue her savage behavior. She doesn't see that you have a backbone and she's walking all over you. So this won't stop unless there is a reason for it to stop. She's the worst kind of cake eater. She's got you and him and she knows you know, but nothing changes. It's time to help yourself out.


Too hard on HER? That's the enabling part. Basically you're saying, the consequences of her A will just be too hard on her so you'll let her do whatever, to whoever, whenever she wants. Do you see that?

It's time to see a lawyer. Time to get the financial plan of providing for her and the kids worked out. Along with custody for the kids. There's no question that right now her decision making is purely selfish.She has put herself as the number one priority, above you AND YOUR KIDS. You should fight to protect them, because what she is doing is harming them. This will scar them for the rest of their lives. They will never understand what is right and what is wrong because their mother's A was ignored by their father. Their moral compass will be forever off if even established. You need to protect them!!!!! That's reason enough to start this ball rolling.

Others will chime in and give some more advice. IMO you should talk to a lawyer, get the important stuff worked out. While doing this you plan A her. Work on you and all the things that you contributed to. You own half of your M. It's time to fix that half. No LBs, try to meet her ENs.

And most importantly, you expose this A. Do you know this guy? Is he M? If yes, his wife must know. Expose to anyone who has any influence with her. This is not out of revenge, you do this cause this is your one tool to end the A. Use it. Tell her friends and family. Tell them that you are trying to save your M and need their support. She will be furious...ok? But you have no choice. Your M can survive her anger, but it will never survive her A continuing forever. So do not apologize for exposing it. Stay calm and tell her that you will fight for her, your family and your M.

Sco, How long are you willing to let her go on like this?

Time to work the plans here. Give your M a fighting chance.

And I say this only if you desire to do so. Not all M's should be saved. So do you really want this woman as your wife for the rest of your life?

Thanks MicheleG for the input, I have to read it more than twice, you said a lot of important things.

Yes I do wonder who else has she's had affairs with. She's always been so secretive about everything. Most of our fights is over that. You're right about the backbone thing, she knows my weakness is the girls. She uses that at her advantage. I feel so guilty, and am having a hard time dealing with the fact that I can’t give the girls a unified home with their mom and dad. I can’t give them what my mom and dad gave me. So I made a decision to stick around for the kids. But my heart can’t tell the difference. It still hurts like heck the things she does to me. I can’t really do it. No one should…

About the financial thing, it'll be hard on me as well, if not more. This woman can be so cruel, that financially she'll take me to the cleaner. She's entitled to child support and alimony, which she'll go for so that I can't afford not even a cup of coffee. She's warned me already. I worked mostly thoughout the marriage, and her very little.

I will start planning and start focussing more on how to protect the girls, you're right again about them being harmed.

She told me the guy is a friend who's going through marital problems. I know nothing else about him, not his address, not his friends, not his wife. I wish I did. Her cell is glued on her. I don't know if he's separated or still living with his wife or girlfriend.

Exposure in my case will do nothing, because her family backs her up no matter what, they could care less about me. Her mom resent me cuz, wify left her house after a fight with her mom at age 18 and came to live with me. We've been together ever since. That was 13 years ago and she still blames me for it.

Her sisters won't even believe me nor give a s*#t... Everyone is affraid to tell her the truth, none of friends will dare. Besides she's good with her mouth, she can lie a jury out of the death penalty...She has already convinced everyone that I'm no good.

Exposure to my family, I'm too ashamed... All I'm gonna get is I Told You So. You should've been divorced that girl long ago etc... They were totally against me moving with her over here, they're worried thinking she'll send me back home in a coffin.

Do I really want this woman for the rest of my life? The answer is no, but I do miss the one I met 14 years ago. She's gone, will she evr come back? Probably not...

Sco

I'd advise you to snoop. Try to find out who the OM is. You really need to find this out. Not only should his wife know because she deserves the truth, there's a slight chance that telling his wife will end the A right then and there. Don't worry about his M being in trouble. Most OPs say that. They're not going to say that their M is great, right? In any case, you need to find out who he is. Can you have her followed by a friend? Can you hire a PI? Do you have a phone number that can be looked up? Some PI's can do that for several hundred dollars. I know of one that can. It's important Sco. The more info you know the better for you to fight this battle.

Also if you can get some concrete evidence of her A, this will help you if it comes to a D. But I would go talk to a lawyer. You may be surprised to find out that you won't be as shafted as you think you might. I'd put that as a priority.

Your wife may still be in there somewhere. During A's the WSs seems to be taken over by aliens. I remember looking at my FWH and asking myself "who is this man and why is he so angry?" He is now a loving man, who tells me daily how important I am to him. So don't give up hope. Things change and they could change drastically with one phone call to OMs wife. So get on it.

Keep posting Sco, the boards are slow on the weekends. Others will add on to what I've said. Keep your post on the first page , it helps.

SCO...

I am sorry to hear your story and how painful this must be for you. I will be back around to post later, but have some things to do first.

Let me be the first to say I apologize for misjudging you and assuming the worst when you first posted. We have had many vicious little trolls around here lately and I think we all have our guard up a little! But I am sorry for that and I hope the good people here can help you find a way out of this mess!!

Thanks Resonance,

I understand and I try not to take things too personal. Remember, we've all been betrayed and tricked here, and it's hard to trust. So we do what we have to do to guard ourselves and not be too naive. Our antenna is up at all times, and that goes for all area of life, and that's the way it should be.

Michele,

I got two numbers I think belong to OM. I took them from her cell D Day. I Should've forwarded all texts to my cell, I screwed up, I didn't. I guess I was too much in shock and in disbelief. Seriously, my heart felt like it was gonna stop. I got his first and last name as well from the hotel receipt. But how far will I get with that info, because I have a feeling he lives alone, and probably won't care if his wife knows. It might be a dead end, what do you guys think about that?

Besides she's "The Punisher". I mean, she's so mean that even if I were to succeed to back him off and stop the A through Exposure, she would punish me by denying me that one thing that she knows I want: "THE MARRIAGE". Yes she's that twisted, and I think that's what she's been doing all along. It's REVENGE. I get blamed for everything that goes wrong in her life, and to get even she takes away what she thinks would make me happy. That is her one and only card.

I think that's also why everytime I try to leave, she stops me. Cause if I leave, she can no longer punish me. I'd be a free man somewhat. She knows I've done a lot to B a better man, read, counseling, church etc... she told me she knows whoever wind up with me, gonna be a lucky girl. But yet she won't let me meet any of her EN's. She doesn't wanna be seduced by me. She looks at that as a "lost" for her, not a win for the entire family. What do you guys think?

Sco,

Get a cup of coffee and read this link >>> TMTS Saga

Some of it gets pretty boring, what with everyone telling TMTS the same things every day for what seemed like forever...

But I want you to pay close attention to the changes in HIS attitude as time went on and the responses of his wife as he began to detach emotionally a bit while executing a specific plan designed to win the war.

Have you read up on Plan A and B? Do you fully understand and buy into the Basic Concepts?

Much of this stuff around here is not intuitive at all. You almost have to force yourself to do it.

Two warnings for you. When you do certain things to show her the best side of you that can be presented, expect NOTHING from her in return beyond more garbage. Second is to detach from her ranting and raving and ignore the venom she will lay on you.

Her punishing is actually built up resentment, fueling entitlement and selfishness...

That, almost by definition, is an affair...

The problem is the affair...

Have you read SAA yet?

Do you have another thread some place so we can read up on what you've already posted?

Mark

LOL Marky! Ain't DAT the truth! And you know I shall nevah let him live that down...hehehe. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

SCO...I know she is a hateful wench right now. We (WSs) all were. But it is why the Harley method is counter-intuitive. Normal, instinctive reactions from you only create more justifications for her and more excuses to continue the bad bahavior.

Loving detachment is crucial. Think of it this way...you have to get to a point in your own mind where you KNOW you are what she really wants and needs, no matter what she says. This is NOT an act...you MUST believe it. To get there, you have to start to change the things about yourself that she gripes about...and it sounds like you are doing that. So, take it one step further and BELIEVE that the changes you have made make you a GREAT catch...she even told you this herself. Who cares what her reasons were at the time! That belief in yourself is what will shine from within and make her take notice. DO NOT verablize this, it mut be actualized in your presence... KWIM?

Do this for one month...go about your business and stop trying to educate her. ACTIVELY try to expose and end the A. Nothing will really work until that happens. You can work on yourself, though, while busting up the A to the best of your ability. That way if you succeed in breaking them up, you will be ready for the fallout and ensuing WAR to recapture her heart.

Thanks guys, for all the great advices. WW is very sick past 4 days (very bad flu), we're snowbound, been home taking care of her and the kids.

Not much time left to be on line and read on. Mark thanks for the link, I'll get to it very soon. Resonance, you're definitely dead on, interesting perspective. I'll reply when I get a chance.

Again thank you all, and please keep posting, I like the different perspectives ya'll brought. It helps expand my mind.

Will get back here soon, thanks Sco!

Also Mark NO I don't have any other thread up about my situation, that's the only one. If you or (anyone else for that matter), have any specific questions that may be important to help things make more sense,feel free to ask.

I left out a few thing here and there, cause my initial first 2 posts would have been way too long.
Thanks again,Sco!

You can prove to her you didn't mess around with the ex. Polygraph.

I do NOT think that is a real issue though. I think your wife is using that to excuse her horrid actions.

Why did you let her leave with your children? You MUST NEVER ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN AGAIN. Get a court involved if you must.

IMHO, based on your wife's past actions and her current actions...you should speak to a lawyer immediately to protect both your finances and your children. She is playing you for a fool and you are going along for the ride. Just because your wife denies the affair...it doesn't change reality.

This affair needs to be exposed and exposed broadly. Do not warn her and get over your fear of doing so. Your wife is a b!tch that needs to be shown that you will no longer be her doormat.

Sco,

good job taking care of her and the kids. You are at this moment meetings some ENs of hers. Keep it up.

This might help you understand both sides of Plan A. You need to work it in its entirety.



The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


I have to agree with MEDC on this one. She is a particularly cruel and manipulative WW. I wouldn't stay too long in plan A. Plan B is probably where you need to get sooner rather than later. Get to that lawyer now.

Worked on plan A big time past 4 days (in fact WW slept voluntarily in my bed past 3 nights, and even met some SF need of mine without me even ask), ONLY FOR ME TO LOVEBUSTED big time this morning, I mean BIG TIME, and mess everything up again. I feel like a total idiot. And now she's looking for an apartment and wants to move out next month. I try to apologize, she told me there's no need to, cuz all I do is insult and criticize her anyway.

This plan A is hard, man. Countless hours and days of love deposits, and "Bam", 5 minutes of lovebusting is all it took; and it's all over.

I realize something and I need some serious help with. There are some specific things that bring out this "LB demon" out of me everytime.

1- When she makes or receives a cell phone call, I can't help but to think it's the OM on the other line. It's hard to really tell the difference anymore, and I can't ask her who she's talking to. I guess I envy the person at the other end, cuz you see her laughing, giggling, joking, at peace, happy, having fun and really enjoying it. I know it could be just friends, family members, or the OM too. Nevertheless, it just shoot this awry feeling up my spine and U know the rest.

2- She's got this CD she came home with from one of her trip, it's in her car, and that's all she listens to. It's got songs titled like "Everything your man won't do" " I wanna do this to you", and bunch of s#*t like that. I already know OM gave it to her. How the heck can somebody listens to 1 CD over and over and over again?

To me she does that to stay close emotionally to OM, and that pisses me off. Consequently, my mind wants to say " screw all this, have it your way, I'm outta here". I'm falling apart here, I'm losing the handle of this thing. Now she wants to move out. She's not talking to me, she's cold and distant, she's sleeping upstairs again, I mean I messed up. The thing is she didn't do nothing directly to provoke this, she was playful, teasing and messing with me etc... What is wrong with me? Is it because I haven't grieved this Affair yet?

Anyone please, Is there anything I can do mentally to handle these external triggers? They are killing me.

Please help...

Well, lots of us go through that. Apologize and don't do it again. Then pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and back to Plan A.

You need to set a date in your head for how long you will do Plan A. That might make it a bit easier.

Triggers are hard. You've just gotta try to stay in control.

I agree with B, dust yourself off and apologize. Get back in the game. Try to continue doing the best Plan A you know how.

Set a timeframe in your mind of how long you are going to stay in Plan A. And start thinking and planning for Plan B. Who will be your intermediary?

How about talking to a lawyer?


You are not going to be able to handle alot of this I afraid. So start getting your ducks in a row.

Thanks guys for the support. I must dust myself off and push forward. For a while my taker took over and went on this cleansing rampage. It felt good though, and gave me that false sense of freedom.
But as I read through TMTS thread, one person asks: Do you wanna be right, or do you wanna save your marriage? You pick!

You see for those BS whose WS are remorseful and volunteer to end the A, it's usually an easy answer. But for those of us whose WS stubbornly are unwilling to end the A, it's no longer a YES n NO answer. I think it becomes a Yes but, and NO answer. Sometimes eventhough you know the answer is a resounding "YES" you wanna save your marriage, but you keep hearing this little voice that keep telling you that, maybe your ww is right and that " the marriage is really over".

I like Resonance's .02 cents
[ Loving detachment is crucial. Think of it this way...you have to get to a point in your own mind where you KNOW you are what she really wants and needs, no matter what she says. This is NOT an act...you MUST believe it. ]

Hard to do in one seating, but it's a must, and is key to be able to stay focus and also be able to endure her torturous ranting and raving. Resonance, or anyone, can you give me a few pointers of how to work on that? Thanks in advance.

Got to go now, will give follow up on her moving out next post.

Sco!

FWIW, take a look at a book called "Taming your Gremlin" by Rick Carson. It's available at Barnes & Noble, don't know about other stores.

This book has given me a tremendous way to clear my head and avoid my bad, reactive behaviors from getting in the way when my WW and I talk now. The idea is really simple: each of us has an inner "Gremlin" that knows how to step in and sabotage us in all kinds of situations. Yours is particularly familiar.

This is not a long book, but might be huge for you, no matter what the outcome of your situation. Hope that helps....

Thanks for the tip RFYL, I will definitely look into that. We need all the resources we can get our hands on, to help us sharpen ourselves to be better men/women for our current relationship or the next.

Follow up on ww moving out next month.

She came to me and said: I realize it's gonna take a lot from us to care for the kids when we separate. Between morning drop offs, pick ups, afterschool care, homeworks, dinner and baths for the kids, and bouncing back and fourth 'tween 2 houses etc...it's just gonna be extremely overwhelming physically, financially, and emotionally for everyone.

I reply: Well exactly, Divorce/Separation is not meant to be easy.

So what she wants to do for now is, for us to "Live under the same roof but be Separated". I told her, well isn't that what we've had for almost 4 years anyway. She replied "No, I mean OFFICIALLY this time, with the title and all, meaning You Do As You Please, and I Do As I Please, You Don't Mind My Business, and I Don't Mind Yours".

I told her No, that I couldn't agree to that. As long as we're under the same roof and married, it's not acceptable to do as we please and especially See Other People. Our vows was to forsake all others, remember. That's a "no brainer" to me.
So I told her that, we can live under the same roof, separated even, but can't see other people.

Am I right or wrong, or should have I said something else?
I mean that's like making it easier for her to officially ride the fence. I know having her home is ideal for plan A, but at the same time, we all know the marriage can't move in a positive direction while the A is still ablaze.

Anyway, her answer for my proposition was: "NO, I can't agree to that either".

So I told her: Wait a minute, you mean to tell me I'm asking too much by asking that we respect each other and not see other people while living under the same roof".

She replied: "No, I have a problem with you and your rules, you think you're my father, and always coming up with rules, and telling me what to do and how to do it".

Is there something psychologically challenging in there for her to genuinely accept and deal with rules, or is she just putting this on. You see I'm 40, she's 30. We got together when she'd just turned 17, and me 27. I'm her first boy-friend, she's my second. She said I always seem to do things right, and her not, and that I act like her Dad, and not like her friend. And that I don't allow her to make mistakes, I'm over cautious. Any thought on that is welcome please.

How do I counter offer her? I wanna give her an alternative, rather than just saying no to her offer.

Any suggestions, any thoughts, anyone please? Thanks a bunch, and God bless. Sco!