Define "controlling person".


You don't make that decision based on MB 'principles' (they are concepts, not principles by the way)

*LINK*

There is a wealth of information at your fingertips - start here.

Someone that likes you to run errands for them, instructs you from afar, tries to make sure you are doing the things that are their priority first -- but not crossing the line to absolute control.

Thank you.

sounds like my children

That is ANOTHER EA...Inappropriate and Unacceptable...This is NOT recovery...


His last marriage ended with an AFFAIR? Did you know this prior to marrying him?

He does not believe in FIDELITY...


UNACCEPTABLE.


You aren't having "leftover triggers"...You are CURRENTLY being betrayed...He is an ACTIVE WS, imo...

Mrs. W

Thank you, MrsW. I thought so. He wants to convince me that I am crazy. That since he didn't put his thing in it (excuse my frankness,) why am I treating him like he is having affairs?

Looks like my hunch is right. He is still EAing, just in a more subtle manner.

My text this morning resulted in him promptly jumping to her defense: "What did she ever do to you?"

Then the fight spiraled out of control. I thought, darn, I am losing my day again. And he isn't being productive at work. Which brought me back to, let's reduce the text messaging package down. We shouldn't fight by text, we should 'discuss' face to face.

To that, he topped, "I'm not even going to bring my phone to work anymore!"

Okay. Well, one plus, the cell phone bill will go down.

He was not ok with me not hanging out with T. because then he would have to explain and get embarrassed, that is why he was trying to make up a story that I said something bad about her. Never. Not to him anyway. No doubt so he could tell her that instead of the truth --

I've hurt my wife so badly in the past that now I cannot be with a female friend and her in the same room anymore.

No wonder he is so miserable.

I think I will add Shirley Glass's book, "NOT Just Friends," to my libarary list, because these are the style friendships he has. I've started calling them borderline-PAs.

He HAS tried to cut back. Stopped calling K. Stop calling J. As far as I know, never texted K. Hasn't texted J in many months. In fact, made a romantic production of removing J. from his contact list -- too bad K. called just then. It was like the planets were aligning to hurt, hurt, hurt us.

Everything he texted was the negative/we won't make it stuff he texts/says whenever we talk about his female friends. I can see that clearly now. I am not giving him a choice anymore. It's down to me OR other women. He doesn't like that at all.

At least he knows now T. is targeted for elimination.

One thing I wanted to say in my own defense: I do want to mature! I have been working at it steadily for months now. It's been slower progress than I hoped, but I have made progress.

Also bear in mind that I was celibate 2.5 years before meeting my DH. I wanted to step back and reevaluate my life. I didn't want to be "dirtied" by men that I didn't want to be with long-term. Even if DH had a PA and I was tempted to indulge in a revenge affair, I doubt I would do it. I still want to protect my body/life/heart from harm.

I only learned of his affair the night before our wedding. It didn't actually end the marriage right away. Rumor has it his wife had an affair, but I am unclear on the details, was she the first, was he? It happened in their tenth year. I took a leap of faith.

Valentine,
A woman calling a married man "sugar bear" is not a friend to your marriage. You have to make your own decisions of course, but at this point my boundary would be no female friends whatsoever,and I'd be willing to enforce that boundary by removing myself from the situation....by sending him out the door unless he ends contact with all of his A partners, because that is what they are.

You have been married less than a year and he has already engaged in numerous affairs. It would be a deal breaker for me at this point for him to have any women "friends"...these women are hardly friends...Your WH seems to have a problem with being monogamous..he's been married twice before his current marrige to you..his track record just doesn't look good.

You don't trust him because he has proven to be untrustworthy. Until he proves himself to be trustworthy you have zero reason to trust him. Did you say he'd be working with an ex-lover, and continues to receive communication from a woman who calls YOUR HUSBAND "sugar bear"...why in the world would you trust him. IMHO you have every reason NOT to.

"You don't trust him because he has proven to be untrustworthy. Until he proves himself to be trustworthy you have zero reason to trust him. Did you say he'd be working with an ex-lover, and continues to receive communication from a woman who calls YOUR HUSBAND "sugar bear"...why in the world would you trust him. IMHO you have every reason NOT to."

Yes, that is correct. He doesn't know I know she calls him that. He is not officially educated on emotional affairs yet, but he is clear that he cannot do any of the following anymore: lovey-dovey nicknames, lip kisses, romantic texts, etc.

(In fact, today I've decided to cancel our text messaging package. It will be reduced this month and canceled the on the 25th.)

I thought that would be enough to protect my heart, and he agreed to those terms. (Giving up non-platonic behaviors.) I thought his agreeing to work on all my terms would help a lot.

But it wasn't over for me. That wasn't enough. Right in a tumble, T. called repetitively, then DH will switch shifts, possibly going on same shift as ex-lover (6 years ago) again. Those triggers are making me as jumpy as a cat in a roomful of rocking chairs to use an old phrase.

So I knew it wasn't over. Simply changing his behavior around people of the OS wasn't going to be enough. He would have to eliminate OS friends altogether. With the exception of these two, he has. He has not seen T. in person in over a year. His only opportunity to see K. is at shift change. (They have a lock-down type factory, get in/get out.) The threat of a) having T. drop in and/or going to her party and b) having DH be on K's shift again worked overtime at stressing me out again.

No, it is not enough. I did text DH this morning that he is the kind of man that can have a wife OR opposite sex friends, but not both. He didn't mourn anyone but T., but he did say something like, can't you just see that is how I am [flirtatious with women].

Actually, in person, with me, he's not that flirtatious. He makes stray VERY BAD, inappropriate remarks, but he is not one of those guys where you can't take him out in public. (One VB comment was announcing his vasectomy in front of a very sleazy, bi-sexual girlfriend of a co-worker. I could have died.)

But behind my back? I know that he is very insecure and needs a lot of ego-stroking. As soon as the women aren't stroking his ego, he stops calling them. They start again, he's there bigtime. But I considered two of the four all done.

He has to get rid of K. and T. It may be a blessing to our marriage if he is laid off. It will be very meaningful if he applies for a shift to work with K. (He has to change shifts, no choice; but he has choice of working her shift or not. We did not have a POJA regarding the shift he picked. He did not tell me if K. is on that shift or not. (But I did not ask.))

T. would be easy to get rid of. It's his heart that would mourn her. She has no real place in our lives, and in fact would be nothing but a third wheel.

Returning to your quote, I have made it clear to him that, NO, I do not trust you. NO, I do not have reason to trust you. YES, I want to trust you. But you must protect me, my heart, from your EAs. I repeated at least three times, "With me, trust must be built." Yes, he was looking for a free pass. Yes, he wanted me to say, "But I do trust you honey, and I want to stay married." But I was completely honest with him about how I really felt. He said lack of trust was reason enough for a divorce. But then, even knowing that, NO, I do not trust him, he promised not to ask for a divorce again, agreed to work on letter.

That is why I am scrambling so hard right now.

"He said lack of trust was reason enough for a divorce."

Close, but not exactly right. Lack of being trustworthy is reason enough for a divorce.

This guy has too many problems. Nine months of marriage and you have to beat off the other women? Do yourself a favor and unload him.

EXACTLY!

Have you read Mulan's post on boundaries? If not, please do...

And these aren't "borderline EAs" imo, they are bonified EAs...It's HUGE Red Flag that he gets defensive about this "friend"...

Mrs. W

Mrs. wondering, actually that was borderline-PA if I typed incorrectly. I do agree the EA is a certainty. Men don't like that term EA. Don't get it. This is the gap that DH and I are trying to cross. He is trying to get it. Wants to be married. Wants to stop hurting me. But he has only gotten halfway between Point A and Point B.

Should I really dump him now when he has come this far?

He is trying to get me to back down because of the stress of the lay-off, but he has overplayed that card.

No, I have not read Mulan's post. I will look for it. Thank you.

VS,

Wasn't "K" who he had his affair with in his last marriage? If I'm right, he must have NO CONTACT with her FOR LIFE...Friends can become lovers, but lovers can never become friends...

Do you know that one of the reasons for "NO CONTACT FOR LIFE"k according to Dr. Harley, is because there will forever be a low burning flame for the OP that can be reignited at any time...NC is NON-NEGOTIABLE where this this OW is concerned-she is a huge threat to the security of your marriage...He cannot work with her...He is going to have to find another job...

Mrs. W

Gotcha...I misread about the borderline deal...Sorry 'bout that!

I can't answer for YOU...I can tell you that *I* would remove myself from this situation with Plan B...

And you know what? Not all men feel that way about the term EA...Mr. W is well aware of what constitutes an EA and protects me and himself accordingly...He is very business like with our female staff, and removes himself when any of them try to talk to him about anything personal-sometimes he suggests that they talk to me if they feel they need "help"...Boundaries...

Mulan's post about boundaries was recent...JosieJones started a thread about it called "Mulan, on boundaries"...

Mrs. W

Yes, I have been taking this stage by stage, step by step. Trust me, I really made a lot of things clear for him on the 28th. He must do this and this, or I am out. I was foolish for leaving wiggle room.

But he is working 3 12 hour shifts. So I am going to have to wait till at least Monday to talk this out further with him. I really have my fingers crossed that I can find a book on emotional affairs in the library because that is his biggest problem -- he cannot relate to how women feel about these. I don't have a really clear black & white definition for him.

In fact, I think that many men are like him in that. He would consider a nickname like, "Sugar Bear," nothing if a man called me that. He would only care if I slept with someone.

I am hoping the Harleys will consider writing a book exclusively about emotional affairs -- oriented toward men. Something a wife to give to a husband and say, "Here, honey, this is why I am so angry with you." Just a really clear, concise, small volume for men with short attentions spans.

He reiterated, "Why am I be treated like I have had affairs?" All of us girls here know (and the enlightened men of course!) All he knows is, when I do this, my wife flies off the handle, so I'd better not do it. Not that when I do this, it causes long term damage to my wife's love and trust and ruins our marriage.

I emailed him a few articles on Emotional Affairs, then took highlights and typed them up in an email.

I laid it right out there. THIS is why it hurts so much. THIS is why I am hurting so much. Give up the women, or you will never have your wife's heart or trust. That's it.

His choice. Them or me.

I gave several examples of some of the awful things he's done, said, texted, etc., with his EAs, all in one spot as supporting evidence. I used the five times he lept to T.'s defense in texts today as examples of how he protects her but not me. How he even made T. sound like his girlfriend and me the OW! (He once said to my face, "My (girl)friends are my family. I'll never give them up." What is a wife?)

I am prepared to go back to Plan B if necessary.

What happened next?

I am going to share some things I never shared before to help explain why I am in this relationship.

When I was a little girl, I met my Spirit Guide who helped me through the toughest times in my childhood. Over the years, I have had different Spirit Guides -- but because of the religion I was raised in -- Jehovah's Witnesses -- I attempted to ignore them. Although I left the religion at the age of sixteen, I struggled with the guilt of seeing and hearing things that others did not see or hear.

In my early twenties, I met a man who sexually abused me. I only recently recognized what he did was abuse. It affected me deeply. My anxiety attacks began when I was with him, and stay with me to this day. They are under control due to therapy.

In my early thirties, I met a man who physically abused me. I had a child with this man. In a way, I felt I deserved the abuse. I had several health crises during/after my pregnancy in 2001 and developed Chronic Fatigue Syndrome & Fibromyalgia (CFS/FM.) Through most of this time frame, I continued to try to suppress messages from my Spirit Guides.

After I left the abusive man, I began to listen to my Spirit Guides in earnest. After a rebound relationship that taught me some horrible lessons, it became clear that I must be celibate until I met the man I was willing to commit to for life. I took this time to work on myself and raise my child. Life was still filled with strife and pain as I have failed -- and continue to fail -- to organize my thoughts and follow my path in earnest.

In my 30s, I noticed that when I ignore my dreams, I become physically ill from supressing them. Part of the appeal of my DH is that he volunteered to be my sounding board for my dream re-telling. But soon he found the imagery too distrubing (which I do understand) so I have switched to online journal as a sounding board. I notice on days when I do not have time to journal a dream that I do remember, I experience more pain.

He also was a sounding board for experiences regarding my Spirit Guides and other visitors. However, that too became too much for him. He says it is because he has more belief and what I speak of than he does, but my view is that I feel protected by my Guides that I will not suffer harm from my visions.

My Guides were adamant this was the man for me. I wanted to back out several times. It was easy to be in love with my DH, but would a marriage really work?

However, I have seen over and over again why they picked him for me. He is very generous. He has protected me financially and physically through the depths of pain of my CFS/FM. I needed that protection to begin growing.

He also loves me deeply. His love has been tested over and over as we grow together, but they say he loves me deeply. Even when my faith falters, they say keep going.

All of the pain I am going through is personal growth. The mistakes I made were a sign that I needed to mature. The mistakes he made were very similar to the ones I made in my history.

My husband said it clearly, "You have to ask yourself if you can forgive."

I am an unforgiving person. I always considered myself forgiving, but the truth is, I only forgive the small stuff. I hold on to the big stuff. I recognize -- as many of you reading here will -- that holding onto this emotional pain is contributing greatly to my very real physical pain.

I have to learn to forgive.

My DH and I had a huge conflict yesterday where I did explain to him what emotional affairs are and how they impacted our relationship from the beginning.

I said from what I have learned about emotional affairs, it boils down to no contact or divorce. There is no happy in-between land. No contact or divorce. He acknowledged that his last EA must go.

He is sorry. Just like me, he has to learn that at the core of our relationship has been betrayal. My betrayal may have been revenge for his betrayal, but all betrayal is wrong. Harming the one you love by being careless is a betrayal. He has to learn for himself how to protect me.

We are attempting to heal these wounds and move on. He has asked me to forgive him. I want him to forgive me too of course. We are working on that, as well as building a new kind of love and trust.

On the practical side of life, I have had a wholistic/naturalistic approach to life for several years now. I believe in using natural foods and supplements to help treat my CFS/FM. However, I have not studied long enough or deep enough to find a natural cure for my pain, so I still rely on prescription drugs for that symptom.

My husband is fully supportive of my pursuit of an alternative income in a naturalistic/wholistic field. The form doesn't matter (health/mind/body/spirit,) but he does care that I make friends in the area of my true passion, and that the size of my income does not matter -- only that I am contributing.

My Guides picked him for a reason. I am off to discover out how to heal the old wounds that are making me ill. I am off to pursue a new life's path.