I remain unconvinced that there exists such an addiction.

I think it is a choice.
I don't think sex is really an addiction.

And if sex IS an 'addiction' for a 'sex addict' --- then the addict must remain chaste for the remainder of their lives !

An alcoholic does not drink with their spouse and claim alcohol recovery because they do not drink with others.

A recovered heroin addict does not restrict himself by shooting up with their spouse and thus claim recovery.

If sex is REALLY an 'addiction' .... then any sexual act with their spouse is risky and may trigger the 'addict' to resume their 'addictive' behaviors .... and for that matter, looking at any magazine that has sexy advertisments is also a 'gateway' drug leading back to 'sex' <~~~ if sex is the drug of choice

I just don't buy it --- I know some of you do ---- let me hear your logical and reasoned thinking that has convinced you that there is such a thing as

'sexual addiction' - I think, at most, is an anxiety issue - and is shame based

and how the 'sexual addict' can have marital sex and not be re-addicted when getting 'high' with their spouse

I am not looking to argue - but to understand something that escapes me because it is illogical to me - the way the term 'sex addict' is usually used

makes no sense in my Pepbrain

We say our WS is 'addicted' to the OP - and hence we require life long NC - now how can we do that if the addiction is sex it's self?

thanks in advance

Pep

agree 100%.

I see it as nothing more than an excuse for bad behavior.

Pepper...

Interesting take. I've never seen it put that way before. Hmmmm...some food for thought....

Would you like to take this to a panel of DR.'s???...LMAO...

Hi!

My husband says that he's a sex addict and I've been reading up on it.

According to the professionals, sex addiction is not about sex but rather a dysfunctional coping style. Supposedly, the dopamine levels in the brain of a sex addict while "acting out" exceed the dopamine levels of a crack addict while using crack.

Here's an interesting and timely article:
using naltrexone to treat sex addiction

Anyway, Pep has a point: sex addicts can't actually completely abstain like alcoholics can. This is similar to people who have a "food addiction"- they just can't stop eating completely! But Pep can probably see the logic in this: an alcoholic who abstains from drinking is not necessarily healthy either. I think they call that a "dry drunk" in AA. The real healing begins when the alcoholic is able to replace drinking with a healthy way to cope with problems. The same is true for sex addicts. It's not really about alcohol, or sex, or food - that's just the vehicle the addict has chosen as an escape.

It is arguably harder for sex and food addicts to get healthy, because their goal is moderation not abstinence. But I sure hope health is possible- my husband does NOT want to keep living this way. He's tried to stop on his own and was unsuccessful... so the word "addiction" seems appropriate in his case.

Just my two cents! I'm still learning and this is new to me, so I could be completely wrong!

~Saturn

Your post made me think of food addiction. Many overweight people have labled their use of food as an addiction, but we all need food to survive. So, they have to work to disassociate emotions from food. Maybe that is what sexual addiction is about... using sex to deal with emotional issues rather than its intended purpose. So not a physical addiction like drugs and alcohol, but an emotional addiction used to avoid facing the root cause of what they feel is missing?

Saturn rising beat me to it! LOL

This is a hard one, and hard because of social stigma attached to it. Very similar in nature to food addictions, one that can be argued away.

But much of hte argument against SA can be used against all addictions really. Don't all addictions come down to a choice? A choice between their drug of choice and other things in their life that matter?

When is sex an addiction? When is alcohol an addiction? Why is it some people can drink socially and other people can't? I would reason using the same guidelines. But yet one addiction can nott easily be compared to another because they all have their differences...here lies the problem...

How SA is like other addictions. It is an escape to release pain. It is self-indulgent. It causes problems with all your other relationships, jobs, family. It takes up a great deal of time. It keeps you in a spiral of shame and guilt.

How it is not like other addictions. You can escape ANYWHERE, simply by fantasizing. You can do it when you're driving, working, having sex with your S, and will generally not cause you to get arrested. It is generally not done in front of people and stays hidden, no prying eyes, no party atmosphere, no one has to know. It is generally not illegal.

So when does an overpowering sex drive become an addiction? Don't know, can't say. I can say I've reached the point where I've reached the limit with my H, and living with him and his fantasy is more than I want to deal with.

Does having sex with your S create a trigger? I can't see why it won't. I've been used for years as a blow up doll, never realizing what was going on, just thought the sex was bad...until he stopped doing that once or twice, and realized he's been 'gone' during coitus.

Ho much is SA? I realized there was a problem when I asked him to put up the material and he was unable (or didn't want to). There is porn hidden in every room in our house. He M about 3-5 x week. And that is what he admits to, so I'm sure this number is higher.

One way I've heard an addiction defined is if you want to stop and don't or can't. He's had many 'opportunities' to stop, has promised he will, says he has, but keeps this part of his life very secret...sound familiar?

Much like a food addiction, you can't or don't want to give up sex for good, so how do you deal with this? I look at it as more an addiction to fantasy, the porn star, the lips wanting to kiss you...and is your S a trigger? Does it help if he M to pictures of me? Hmmmm, doesn't that remove the actual skin and blood and intimacy?

I can see the logic behind "dysfunctional coping style"
but not "addiction"

smokers who quit and stay smoke-sober find other ways to deal with their anxiety - and they risk re-addiction when they smoke "just this once"

I think calling a behavior by a wrong term such as 'sex addiction' is just

wrong
sends a wrong message
and is confusing to someone like me

So how can a WS show the passion and romance of intimacy that is badly needed by the BS without feeling the shame of his/her past mistakes?

It's hard to say that the WS should be looking for "moderation" when moderate intimacy is what some of us BS have been putting up with for years.

This is my logic as well.

If sex is REALLY an 'addiction' .... then any sexual act with their spouse is risky and may trigger the 'addict' to resume their 'addictive' behaviors .... and for that matter, looking at any magazine that has sexy advertisments is also a 'gateway' drug leading back to 'sex' <~~~ if sex is the drug of choice

I just don't buy it --- I know some of you do ---- let me hear your logical and reasoned thinking that has convinced you that there is such a thing as

'sexual addiction' - I think, at most, is an anxiety issue - and is shame based

and how the 'sexual addict' can have marital sex and not be re-addicted when getting 'high' with their spouse
*********************************

Your opinion makes sense to me.
SA has been likened to eating disorders and food addictions.
MC actually told us that like food, you can't expect someone to live w/o sex... :confused

I totally agree w/ you that even sex w/ a spouse can even fuel the so called "addiction"

This is why I do not think there is such a thing a 'sex addict'

there is the behavior, yes

but if we use the term 'addiction' to decide how to relate to the 'sex addict' we must advise there be no sex in the relationship

makes no sense

My advise:

stop refering to her as a 'sex addict'

it puts your marriage recovery into a trap

I can see the logic behind "dysfunctional coping style"
but not "addiction
*****************************
This makes more sense to me too.
I think the term "addiction" is used too lightly ....it would make a lot more sense if it was called a dysfunctional coping style and would force the "addict" to become more responsible for their recovery instead of chalking it off as an addiction.

Like has been mentioned above, many things these days are being labeled addictions and even the word "addiction" has become somewhat fuzzy.

First there are physical addictions - these are addictions (generally) to substances where the body has developed a dependancy upon the substances to the point where if the substance is withdrawn the person will become ill or possibly even die. These are easily recognizable as addictions. Many people are physically addicted to medications to treat physical ailments - diabetics are addicted to their medications, people with heart problems or high blood pressure can be medically addicted to their medications. My own mother is medically addicted to morphine because of her health problems.

Not all addictions are bad, destructive, or problems.

Then there are emotional addictions where people use some behavior to cope with anxiety, fear, frustration or as an escape from life. Sometimes, these addictions are coupled with a physical addiction (ie. someone addicted to heroin is both physically and emotionally addicted). My mother would be both physically and emotionally addicted but in her case it's not dysfunctional behavior because it's monitored and simply medical care that allows her a quality of life.

Simply emotional addictions are usually identified when ever the focus of the addiction (coping mechanism) becomes dysfunctional to the point where it affects the person's ability to lead a normal life or where it puts their health in jeopardy.

For example, if their fixation is gambling - it shows up if financial ruin occurs. If no financial ruin occurs - we call those people professional gamblers and it becomes a job they use to make a living.

If their fixation is danger/sports - it shows up when they hurt themselves. If they manage to be truly lucky, we call them professionals and stunt men.

If their fixation is shopping, it shows up when financial ruin occurs. If they get a job as a professional shopper then...well...

If their fixation is sex, it shows up when it starts to cause family disintegration or to interfere with their relationships with others. Other wise they become playboys like Hugh Hefner.

I think that these types of addictions are dysfunctional fixations on something (online gaming, gambling, sex/relationships, shopping, eating, danger/risk taking, playing the stock market) etc.

These fixations are not an 'exucse' for bad behavior - as it's always a choice. I do believe, however, that MB does not work for behavior that has become an addiction fixation. The addict must first give up the fixation and replace it with a healthy way of coping with whatever emotion they are masking (anxiety, fear, anger) with the addiction. Because giving up their coping mechanism is (I think) almost impossible until they find a healthy replacement. It's impossible to avoid those basic emotions - until they learn how to cope properly with those emotions they will continue to self medicate with whatever they are fixated on.

Until that happens, Plan A, Plan B, and Plan D will not work.

Mys

Is this your definition of addiction?

Is this different from behavior that is a bad habbit?

Some behaviors that are a good habbit could also be called an 'addiction' using this definition .... for instance - running marathons .... this could be a 'running addiction' and meets the requirements (except, perhaps for the shame)

I think we ought to reserve the use of the term 'addiction' to situations that have been carefully thought out ---

Mys - very logical and well said

thanks

edited to add: "will not work to change the behavior/fixation by the addict."

Those Plan B and Plan D will work to protect the abused spouse from further consequences of the addict's fixation.

Mys

Alas, "Addiction" is just a word.

Remember what Addie said in Faulkner's story "As I Lay Dying"? Addie says [some] words are invented by someone who had to have a word for it" and "...that words are no good; that words don't ever fit even what they are trying to say at."

I prefer the term I learned in college psych classes decades ago: Maladaptive Sexual Behavior... ask yourself if...

* Your thoughts about sex interfere with your family relationships? Do they cause disruption in communication? Do you hide them?
* Do thoughts of sex interfere with your social life? Do they cause issues in how you relate to friends?
* Do thoughts or images of sex cause disruptions in your work life, such as distractions, loss of concentration, or even supervisory or peer relations (often related to sexual harassment)?
* Do you hide or lie about your activities relating to sex (porn, prostitution, promiscuity, etc)?

PB, I agree with you. It does put us into a trap.

nia, I like the phrase you used of dysfunctional coping style. That is a much more descriptive term in the majority of cases of what is actually happening.