The other side of fixation is avoidance. Some people actively fixate on some behavior as a way of coping with emotions they otherwise don't know how to handle. Other people use denial and avoidance in order to avoid emotions they don't know how to deal with - for example people who avoid sexual relations at all costs.

Both behaviors are very damaging to marraige and the marriage has little chance of surviving until the avoidant/fixated partner learns coping mechanisms to deal with regular emotions (anger, frustration, boredom, fear, <whatever>.

I prefer dysfunctional coping mechanism to addiction, as well, because the opposite side is can be just as damaging and seems to be created by the same type of motivation.

Mys

I prefer the term I learned in college psych classes decades ago: Maladaptive Sexual Behavior.
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I wish "they" had just stuck w/ that term and made a case for it being a common real life problem instead of labeling it an addiction.

in many ways, calling it an addiction has got the pendulum to swing in the other direction.
when I first started to realize that the way my husband coped w/ his issues was causing a problem w/ the intimacy in our marriage I was laughed at and told that I wa sthe one w/ the problem.
Then,
1 counselor immediately labeled my H a Sex Addict and threw us off into the wrong direction for a couple of years....it actually gave my H reason to believe he had inherited it and couldn't help himself...made him feel less in control and worse about himself........which mad him act out more and hide it more, which just added to his shame.

And when I wasn't comfortable w/ the diagnoses and would ask for them to better explain "addiction" to me because I just wasn't getting it...they just stared at me like I had sprouted another head.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Interesting topic. I went to see Fr. Tom Allender when he came to our church to talk about Transcending anger. I learned so much from his talks (3-2 hour talks) that I bought the CD set to listen to it. In his CD he talks about processing anger. We all have anger and anger itself is not bad it is how you deal with it that may be the problem. He makes jokes about how he sometimes processes it through ice-cream. Then he pats his belly and says "can you tell I have had some anger issues lately?” Then he goes on to talk about ragers, passive aggressive (hello! ME!!) and sexual aggressors. He said some people use sex as a release for their anger. It is very interesting to see it from that side. I know of someone who is like this (cheated on past GF's and wife) and if you asked him if he was angry he would say no. He is just the boy next door, happy go lucky. If you ask his ex-wife she would tell you he is a closet rager and a sex rager. It is his way of controlling situations and people around him.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

better not ask questions of the 'experts'

you'll grow another head !

LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

nia, I like the phrase you used of dysfunctional coping style.
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I can't take credit...that was Pep's term.
But, I think we should all get together and write a book about it and start giving seminars to help the poor "sex addicts" shed their label (which only adds to their shame and fear) and conquer their Dysfunctional Coping Styles!

Pep:

But you do agree that the Wayward is ADDICTED to the "DRUG" produced by the AFFAIR?

Which isn't JUST about SEX..but allowing the OP to meet all ENs including SF?

My H affair was certainly NOT about SEX but he was ADDICTED to the OP.

You agree with THAT CONCEPT, correct?

Mimi,


I know you and your H have processed through <edited to say HIS affair not your affair> affair (to both your credit). Has he ever revealed to you the chain of events that took him from the point of <safety> to the point of <affair>? What were the rationalizations he used?

Mys

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yeah! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

unfortunately, the "experts" response to MY own "intuition" pushed My self-esteem buttons and I spent a whole lot of time questioning what the heck was wrong with ME.

I am really glad you posted this thread, pep......the timing was perfect for me.

Will be glad to ANSWER...

But I don't know what you mean by the point of SAFETY.

I think it was an EA for a long while before it became SEXUAL...and he remained highly SEXUALLY ATTRACTED to me throughout the WHOLE AFFAIR..she met other ENs...

yeah Mimi - I agree - but it took me awhile to accept the addiction concept there as well

but I think the BS has to be careful when they label their WS a 'sex addict' .... using this label makes normal sex relations very very difficult in recovery

What I meant by the point of <safety> was that there had to be some point when he had not developed a fixation/addiction to her - for example the first moment the met. The point right before it became an EA. (ie. If all they'd ever done was met and shook hands or even just maintained a working relationship then that's not considered affair behavior.)

I strongly suggest that your H would not be considered to be a sexual addict. Has anyone ever suggested that he is a sexual addict? From what you've described he doesn't use sexually oriented behavior to self soothe some common emotion. (ie. he doesn't run to porn when he's feeling <angry, frustrated, bored, anxious, etc - contrasted with Nia's story who's H has had porn problems for a long time) Nor does he run to have affairs to avoid dealing with real life.

I think your H developed a fixation on one person - but do you know what rationale he used to justify his behavior to himself? He knew right from wrong .. has he ever disclosed why he chose to do the destructive action rather than walk away?

I don't think all affairs are because of a dysfunctional sexual fixation - but I do believe that some of them can be.

In your case, Mimi, it seemed that he developed a fixation on person - and until he was willing to give up that fixation then he was still ruled by the fixation.

Mys

In your case, Mimi, it seemed that he developed a fixation on person - and until he was willing to give up that fixation then he was still ruled by the fixation.
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I think my H could have eventually gotten around to an affair if I had not been meeting many of his ENs.....including SF.

years ago, (before I knew of his sexual IB's) If I had withdrawn FROM him, he may have actually developed a relationship(an affair) and a fixation on a particular woman......but,since I was meeting many of his other needs he remained loyal to me in his own way.

I think that average affairs are NOT a 'dysfunction' in the sense of being part of a disease or syndrome

I agree. I think there has to be a pretty significant history of sexual fixation before you should consider that as the problem.

That said, I do think there ARE some affairs that are the result of a dysfunctional sexual fixation.

Just as there are some marriages that suffer from sexual starvation as one spouse has a dysfunctional sexual avoidance.

Mys

Have you ever read "The Awakening" By Kate Chopin? It is a very short novel published in 1899 that deals brilliantly with the theme of OP addiction.

The story was labeled "unwholesome" and condemned for its sexual openness (by Victorian standards of the day) though the outstanding writing style was simultaneously acknowledged. Due to harsh reaction, publication was stopped after the 1st printing. The story was revived in 1969 and is now often required reading in colleges because it is widely considered to be a precursor to American modernism.

Since the novel is so short, there are internet sites to download it from...though I find it is a more pleasurable and sensual experience to read any 19th century work from a dusty old library book! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Just to add:

If the marriage is dealing with a sexual dysfunction (fixation or avoidance) then I do not believe traditional MB principles will work. I believe that the fixated/avoident spouse will first have to address their abusive behaviors towards their spouse (withholding/affairs) and find new coping mechanisms.

Which is another good argument for why MOST marriages can be helped by MB - but not all. Sometimes there are underlying dysfunctions which have to be addressed before any MB principles should be applied.

Mys

but not all. Sometimes there are underlying dysfunctions which have to be addressed before any MB principles should be applied.
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I honestly think this is very common....I think many of us come here thinking MB can restore intimacy to our marriages.....only to find out that the real problem is that there are underlying dysfunctions that we didn't even know about........On a positive note, MB has helped many couples "see" those dysfunctions for the first time.

The problem is with the word 'dysfunction' and why I think "maladaptive" is still the better term. It's assessment is relatively free from subjectivity. Although the term might connote or indicate abnormality or mental dysfunction, it simply means behavior that is counterproductive to the individual.

Even behaviors considered moral can be apparently maladaptive, such as dissent or abstinence.

I could not disagree more -

the word "any" does not work for me .... radical honesty is the first MB concept that should be applied to every marriage IMO

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a marriage that doesn't have any dysfunctional/maladaptive behaviors.

I think the distinction is whether those behaviors are severe enough that they have to take precidence over anything else.



You're right, Pep. What I was thinking wasn't really what I wrote - because in cases of abuse, immediate separation would apply, for example.

We can agree to disagree about radical honesty, though. I think that the physical safety of all parties should take the highest precedence in any situation. Take care of life and limb and then we can worry about honesty.

Mys