OMG - does she have a sister that used to post to MB under the nickname "Tangled"? :-)

TR,

You have a lot to read through and digest.
I'm overwhelmed with the amount of feedback myself.

You have some amazing people posting to you, I only pray you reflect on their words with the understanding they are trying to convey to you.

Everyone here knows you have pain, but we also know this is not the appropriate time or place for you to vent.
This is the time and place for you to begin to comprehend the steps necessary for you to become the Husband and Father God called you to be!

Everyone here wants your marriage to recover. Many here already have and will continue to help you outline steps to recovery. You just need to remember its not an event this is a process.

Hold your wife, sooth your wife, answer her questions, and spend time being the dad your kids need EVERYDAY!

I will post more later!

geez, there's a lot of people on here. There was someone back there that was hoping i wasn't running away from this place, i'm not, just been at work. I jotted down some things i read in some posts from you all that stuck out to me.

There is no contact between the OW (i hope i'm using these things right here) and myself. I myself cut off contact before the affair was revealed by saying - no e-mails, no phone calls, nothing at all - and i stuck true. There were a couple of times where she tried to call me but i never answered the phone or responded. I never wrote a "no contact" letter, and to do so right now would be pointless because due to the wonderful world of myspace and my thrashing her to pieces with how i feel about her in front of about 80 witnesses. I can with all honesty say that the few times i do attempt to pray, one of them is that i never cross paths with her again so that i won't go to jail so i can be here with my family.

My wife and i have had some marriage counceling sessions since everything was revealed, and i remember the first one we went to the Dr. said "tell her EVERYTHING, any questions she has, answer them truthfully, there needs to be nothing sacred between you and the other woman." I have followed that rule ever since i was given it. It hurt a LOT to reveal details and answer explicit questions, and i didn't WANT to because of how it hurt my wife, but with faith in the Dr.'s credentials, i took her advice, and still do.

My wife has full access to everything i have, passwords, emails, myspace, everything. I even have a company cell phone and make sure that every month the company e-mails me the records from arizona (i'm in Cali) so i can print them out and give them to her.

There was a post about my feeling sad due to a fantasy fix, that i don't have the OW as an option and that there's a long uphill road to travel. That stuck out to me because I in no way would EVER want to be with the OW or any other woman for the rest of my life. I want to do what i need to do, and there's a lot of times where i need reminders of what i did, and actually reading my wife's post helped a LOT with that. What's weird is that i read it and think, "that was me? i did THAT?!" and feel very confused. My wife has told me a little about the "fog" and it makes sense, but i don't want that to be an answer for anything. EX: wife - "why did you say/do that?" me- "uh, gee, must've been the fog". that just seems like a cop out to me.

I also read about being reclusive. That pretty much describes it, i don't feel like being around others more than i need to, i avoid going back to church because i feel really ashamed, and etc. Now that could be conveyed as self-loathing and that i don't want, so i think...why do i feel that way? so i self-analyze and see that i have a huge issue now with trusting others, almost on paranoia...well, maybe not that strong. I know that i used to be very gullible and thought i wasn't anymore, then the whole affair happened and i look back to try and see how it happened and how to look for signs for it to never happen again, and i feel like if i don't get close to anyone, i won't get lied or backstabbed to again. could that be reason for reclusiveness?

um, 2 replies to 2 people

Lady Clueless: as you know i have 3 children, and to read that God has called 2 of yours home strikes deep. But what strikes deeper is saying that the affair is worse. It seems unfathomable to hold that statement, to know that what i've done is worse than that eats me alive, and i thank you for sharing that personal information because i need reminders of just how horrible this is and how much work is needed, esp. patience

Resonance: you stood out to me because you used something that i like to use, analogies. taking a separate situation and comparing it to another. Actually as i type this i think...isn't that what Jesus did? Anyways, me being a male i wish to fix things immediately and if i can't then it frustraites me, so i'm looking for logic and reason which is what you gave. now don't take that for me thinking there's a magic wand (or cresent wrench) somewhere that i can wave, i know better, but your analogy helped me. thank you

and thank you others for posting also, a quick synopsis of what happened is somewhere on one of these posts, look for
tigerwife - she is my love

((((((tigerripper))))))))

Now we are getting somewhere. I'll be back in a bit. Very proud of you that you have taken this all in and stuck with it!!!

There may be hope for ya yet! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I hope you and your wife will start going to church. Now is the time when you really need it. Prayers going up for you.

I second the church vote. How far would you have to drive to get to a different church, one where everyone wasn't in on this?

We drive 50 minutes each way to church most of the time, and we've been going there so long we're just used to it - a beautiful drive once a week. It may be more convenient, but you don't have to even go to a church in your town.

Also, don't let shame keep you away. What you did is terrible, but as a forgiven child of God, you have every right to be there in His house.


Being forgiven isn't a magic pill that will take your wife's pain away, and for quite a while it will be hard to walk between being shame-free and the damage you caused, but you can do it if you decide to. Ask forgiveness, embrace forgiveness, live as a new creature, and then continue to be understanding with your wife when it takes her much longer.

You guys can make it - we have, and so have many others.

I agree with B, but I would make it a different church...

Perhaps a mens small group would be of benefit to you as a help with accountability. Iron sharpens iron and all that...

TR, you need to take the lead on this recovery stuff soon. Your wife needs you to be her hero again, just don't try to fix it all at once, because it will be one forward and two back or two forward and one back for some time to come. But the more you learn and apply to helping her heal, the sooner you yourself will be able to heal.

A word of caution for you. Beware blaming anyone else for anything for a while. It is too easy to get into the habit of justifying one's actions because of what someone else has done. And if you examine things you said or did to try to justify the affair, you will see that blame-shifting and denying personal responsibility was a big part of how you were able to cross the line.

Glad you're still here.

Mark

tr,

I just wanted to clarify something for you.

I know you feel like you are 8 months into recovery, and you don't understand why your wife is still asking you the same questions over and over.

My friend, it is because you have not told her the truth when she first asked these questions, and when she repeated the question she got a different answer, so she keeps asking until she gets the same answer (ie the truth), and then she will feel you are telling the truth.

The same thing happened with my FWS (former wayward spouse). He finally started telling the truth, a bit sooner than you have, but it happened. It was a huge relief.

You have to understand this.

Also, you were dishonest with her about your porn use and so you really need to be transparent and build her trust... I know this because my H used porn for years and lied and lied. Porn use is hard on some women because they feel they cannot compete with that, and it is VERY hard on the ol' self esteem.

If you are worried about telling her the truth because it might hurt her, please believe me when I say that her imagination, or what she might THINK happened is MUCH worse than what REALLY happened.

The sooner you tell her the truth, the sooner you will start recovery. Please tell the truth, then your story won't change and your wife will feel MUCH safer.

It is your job to make her feel safe again. Please do not yell at her anymore if she has questions. This is not her fault. Yeah, you weren't in agreement to have that third child, but it was no excuse for your adultery. You have to OWN that before things get better.

I hope you have learned to NEVER talk to another woman about your marital problems again.

Best wishes,
Love in Christ,
Miss M <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My gosh, people...can it be? Is that a GOOD MC I hear someone talking about?? UNBELIEVABLE! (TR-I say this jokingly because there are SOOOO many quacks out there and some of the stuff we read that couples are told in "counseling" is so ridiculous that it is laughable!) Consider yourself very lucky that you found a GOOD one!


Excellent...do not begrudge her this...she needs time to trust again!


I really understand this, TR...I had the same reaction when I read my DH first post here. BTW-you think your BW's post was long...sheesh...you haven't read Want2Stay's! (my DBH) It's in my sig line below...he still gets teased relentlessly about it by friends here! But he was like you...pretty private, untrusting (TRUST NOONE is his motto), but such a friendly, easy-going guy. It was a shame that I was the one person he trusted implicitly and I took that away from him. But when I read his post...I just couldn't believe it was ME he was writing about. He had held it all in for so long that once he started writing, it all came pouring out. I just remember sitting there that night, and for almost a day after practically speechless (and if you knew me, you would know what a shocker that is! LOL). I just couldn't wrap my brain around it...who had I become...when did I start being so stupid and inconsiderate...how did I let it go that far???

There was one particularly ugly incident where I left W2S at the dentist when he was having a tooth removed to go see OM. He would have never done that to me...he would have been there holding my hand the whole time. Actually I would have NEVER done that before that time. The tooth shattered and it got so bad he passed out in the chair. It gets worse, but it makes me sick to even think about it. I am disgusted by the memory of those times....

You just need to focus on the important things right now and realize that this is a slow process. You are both here, and that is SO HUGE!!! Be the man your wife fell in love with and make sure that you spend your 15 hrs a week together, and start to rebuild your romantic love again. It will get better!

you know mark, i hear what your saying about the blame-shift. there was a period of time a couple months back where my BW would ask a certain series of questions, and the honest answers would but the OW in the bad light, i didn't like it because it sounded like justifications. Also it's very true "you will see that blame-shifting and denying personal responsibility was a big part of how you were able to cross the line."

Miss M-very true what you've said also, it's been a while since that revelation to me. In trying to do what i'm supposed to, I answer my BW's questions, but before the counceling & at the first revealing i told half-truths, or just straight up "No"'s when it was really "Yes." I had gotten really frustrated at one point and raised my voice to my BW with "why do you keep asking me the same questions?!" So she tells me "Because i keep getting different answers!" dur. Oh, and as for going to another female for advice (besides mom, sis, in-laws, and councilors), oh yeah, big f-up on my part

Neak-thanks for the verse. known it almost my whole life, i remember even giving a 15 minute devotional on it! but do i think of it...noooo...am i reading my bible...noooo...should i start? yeaaaaah

Resonance - thanks for sharing the tooth story, if i stop and start thinking about some instances i pulled, i really easily can slip into darkness. almost like how you'd watch a drama or horror movie and get sickened at the villan, but in this case the villan would be me, so therefore i get sick at myself, especially like you said, my BW would NEVER do something like that to me. man i don't deserve her

This might be a good time to pull out that devotional again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And since you know already that you should be reading, then I don't have to nag you about that, either.

tigerripper - I have read your wife's thread on GQ II and now your thread (once I was able to find it).

I have just one fundamental question for BOTH of you. Do you want to recover your marriage WITH God or on your own?

I have one question for you, what sort of relationship with God do you want versus the one you currently have?

TR- I don't know why I'm reading this, since A's haven't been a problem in my marriage. I was just interested I guess.
A question I have for you is, why are you so angry with OW? It still seems to me that you are blaming her. You even say that you were "gullible". Could you say more about that?
You almost make it sound like she tricked you into cheating. I'm not trying to sound like an expert, but just from what I've learned on this site so far, that sounds like a huge copout to me.
You honestly can't say that she tricked you into cheating can you? Or that you just didn't know it wasn't ok to have an affair?
Yes the OW was wrong, but she's not the one who was married and she's not the one who took vows to forsake all others, did she?

TR,

I read your wife's thread last night, and one suggestion I have for you is in regard to your parents.

It would be a really good idea for them to not be telling your wife to just get over it and not be talking about the affair. Also, while she was on bedrest, they apparently blamed the condition of the house for your infidelity.

I believe that, as their son, you have the responsibility to set your parents straight on things.

You can lovingly and respectfully inform them that the things they have said/may be saying to your wife are inappropriate, not helpful to your marriage, and that they need to stop it now.

As for the congregation and community giving your wife a hard time, I also think you should set them straight about what happened. EXPOSING A SIN IS NOT WORSE THAN THE SIN ITSELF! This is the message they need to learn. They need to hear from YOU that you and the OW had the affair, and that the OW's version is a lie.

And, as I posted to you before, my WH lied about his affair where he gave me an STD for over 13 years, and he continues to lie about anything related to his infidelity. Well, actually, he lies about other stuff, too. I've learned how to tell when he's lying and call him on it.

You may think you're protecting your wife by not giving her the full truth, but the opposite is true. You are hurting her tremendously...even worse than the affair.

It may be that you feel like you're protecting yourself by withholding part of the truth, but you're really not.

Your marriage will never fully heal without the truth.

Your wife is a big girl. She can handle the truth. Don't insult her by thinking that she's too big a baby to handle the truth.

Don't steal her life by withholding information that she needs in order to make decisions that affect the rest of her life.

Many of the things you've done are things that my husband has done/does. You do show a good bit of remorse, which is something I've never seen in my husband (other than being sorry he was forced to admit the truth..part of it, anyway).

I do not consider our marriage to be recovered. It may never be, even though we remain married and get along well.

My posts to you are examples of what you should NOT do.

If you continue on the same path as my husband, you will never have the fulfilling and passionate marriage you want.

Your wife is more savvy than I was at her age. I was so in denial, and that makes me angry at myself. I can not fault anyone but myself for allowing my own denial to waste years of my life.

If I had awakened back when I should have, I probably would have eventually dropped my WH and gone on to rebuild my life without him.

You are very fortunate that your wife wants to rebuild your marriage. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that you should be in control of what's needed to rebuild, or she could eventually get tired of waiting and move on.

Don't let this happen. By helping your wife heal, you will be helping yourself heal.

You CAN have a wonderful marriage, but it will take time and work. Nothing worth having is free or easy.

I just went and read your wife's thread too. The thing that struck me is that you guys have got to get away from these people! Try to find some way to move, it seems like everyone around you is too entrenched in that social circle.

Post deleted by tigerswife

Tigerripper, if you ever decide you want to change the title of your post, all you have to do is go to your very first post, click "edit", and it will let you change it in there.

LC is right....this needs corrected by you immediatly!




LC is right on again...

I had to meet with my Dad and step mom and first made ammends to them for all MY lies. Then I had to explain that they were wrong for ever taking my side and supporting me during my A.
I told them it was their responsibility to kick my a$$ and that they failed in their responsibility to be parents. Its not their job to be my friend and thats what they were doing while my family was living a nightmare.



LC is soooo right on again.....

I had to finally stand up and defend my family, my wife fought and fought during my A, and it may be necessary to cut your extended family out of your life for a while and in some cases maybe forever. This may seem extreme, but your wife and children are your main concern and until healing and recovery take place distance may be necessary.

Tigerswife.....

welcome, I'm glad your seeking some help here.
I do recommend that you keep your posts on your own thread. This will prevent confusion to those posting to your husband. This will keep your story all in one place and your feedback all in one place as well.

TR,

Are you willing to begin seeking a church where you can worship as a family?


Are you willing to read SAA (Surviving an Affair) a book by Dr. Harley?


Are you willing to confront your parents about their poor choices and to stop defending you and any of your actions?