Sorry for the long post...been keeping it in...need to vent!

WH has been gone for a month. I told him that I won't have anything to do with him while he was "exploring" his relationship with OW and will only talk with him if he is committed to our M and is in NC with OW.

The first couple of days I was feeling relief...like the weight of the world was off my shoulder. But then it was like the situation hit me like a brick...I have been talking, seeing this man since I was 16 years old. There were many times during the days and night that I wanted so badly to talk to him. But then I would think, what is there to say? Nothing really so I would suppress the feeling by "being still". I concentrated on my son and cleaning out the closets!

I was able to really get a handle on these feelings most days...nights are the worse. But I admit I had many pity parties for myself...by myself. Luckily my son (16) has been a major support along with his friends. All was going well until I came home one afternoon unexpectedly and WH was over spending time with our son.

My heart sunk and all the longing I had suppress came rushing over me. I was getting ready to leave once I realized he was there...but he stopped me and said he wanted to talk. I was weak and stayed. He told me that he wasn't doing very well..that he missed our family and me. He realized that the only person he can live with and can live with him is me. I was about to swallow the bait but then I asked him if he was spending time the the OW. He said he was. That was it...I told him nothing will change. I will continue to not talk to him or see him.

All he talked about was how "he" was doing and how I can make him more comfortable! The selfishness is unbelievable to me...does he really think that I will just lay down and tell him to walk all over me....hasn't he already done that?

I had not talked to him since. Last weekend our daughter moved out into her very first apartment...I did see him then cause he was helping her move but I didn't talk to him. My daughter called me later that day to tell me that WH had called his sister and told her everything. That really shocked me cause he always said he wasn't going to tell them anything cause it wasn't their business. I think the reason why was 1-she had an A and it ended in D. 2-I think he is trying to figure out what to do next. I like to think that he is looking for answers but to which questions I'm not sure.

I also think that his little "fantasy" isn't going the way he envisioned. His "beloved" is not what/who he thought she was. There was an "situation" a couple weeks ago where she gotten drunk and gave a teenager a lap dance. Yep...I said LAP dance. Unfortunately this was at a party that the adults were suppling alcohol to kids and most of those kids knew my son. So he heard about it and told me. Which I rely to WH during one of our discussions.

My problem is that since I found out that he was spending time the the OW...I've sorta been obsessing about it. I know I shouldn't but I can't help myself. I want to know what is going on. He told me that he still love her and still not have any "desire" for me. I hate the thought that he is intimate with her, giving her what should be rightfully mine. But also I am struggling with the disgust I feel towards WH. I have lost a lot of respect for him. I just don't know what to do with that.

This just really tick me off...20 years lost between the legs of a skank! UUUGGGHHH!!!

Any thoughts, suggestions, support would be appreciated.

Tami

((((Tami4)))

The things your WH said are almost exactly what mine said after I was in Plan B a month. You are right that if he is still with OW, it's just him trying to get comfort and sticking to his selfish ways.

All the feelings you describe are prefectly normal in Plan B. I started myself nearly 7 1/2 months ago and I can tell you that the keys to getting through it are: no contact with WH (not even hearing about him--this was the hardest thing for me) and 2. putting focus on activities and people that distract you from thinking about him and OW.

After that, the only thing that helps is time--and everyone's timeline is different--but while you're going through it feels like an eternity!! I am finally getting to a place where I don't obsess about WH and OW and feel pretty good about my life as it stands. Because if WH wants to continue the way he is, I really have no use for him.

Keep posting--we are here for you.

Smartie

Tami,

plan B is about preserving yourself and the good feelings for WS for when he comes back. Knowing what he is doing or what the OW is doing does not help you. Take this time for you and moving forward. If he gets it together enough to recognize what he is losing and that the recovery becomes more about you than him great. Until then, do not let him and this OW destroy you. Do things with your DS, find your new life, the one you will take into the future with or without your past. You are a terrific person and must and will survive past this, for you, and for the kids.

Sorry, I haven't been around. We have decided to move to your neck of the woods. Trying to get the house sold, line up a new place to live, and all the other stuff that goes with it. DS 19 will be home for spring break on Friday, can't wait. I'm doing well, stressed with all the move stuff, think about the crap a little less often, fortunately OW is keeping her nose out of our lives right now.

((tami))

Fled

Tami,

I'm not familiar with your situation, so apologies if you already know all this, but Fled got it right. Your recent contact is kind of a demonstration of how Plan B is supposed to work.

WS's are terrible, hurtful creatures that spew Fog-laced insanity. If you listen to them and let them close to you, you will get hurt and lose your willingness to reconcile. Or you will get emotionally triggered and say something back to him that will probably be at worst love-busting and at best a waste of your breath (trying to reason with a WS is a path to madness).

Better to keep the WS away from you. Try to look at all of the turmoil you experienced () as the price you paid for breaking your plan B. That's what you did when you talked to him--you broke your plan B. It will be an incentive to stay dark in your Plan B if you can view things this way.

Don't feel bad. No plan is perfect, and you did a great job of not reacting to his FogSpeak by love-busting him. But recognize that if you hadn't talked to him, you wouldn't know this stuff, and you would be better off.

Have you already mentally separated your H from your WH? Think of them as two different people. H is the one you want back, but he's not available right now. The only one available is WH, but you want nothing to do with him. You don't want to see him, talk to him, know what he's doing. . . anything.

So. . . how to get to the place where you're not obsessing over it. What are you doing to take care of yourself? Plan B is hard, especially at first. Have you taken up any hobbies? Something you have always wanted to do but never quite got around to? Some redecorating? A class? Exercise?

And try to rechannel your thoughts back to you. When you catch yourself thinking about your WH, tell yourself "The fact that I am having these thoughts means that my life is not full enough" and follow that with "What am I going to do today to take care of myself" and then do something about it. Treat yourself to something! You are going through what will probably be the worst thing to happen to you in your entire life. Or I hope so, for your sake.

((Tami))

Tami, you already know the answer to this dilemma.

Stop seeing him. AVOID him at all costs. He knows what he needs to do to come home.

Other than that, anything else will just hurt you and further erode your love for him.

Recovery is hard enough as it is...stop making it harder on both of you by allowing contact with him.

((Smartie/sdguy/MarriedForever))

Thank you for your encouragements. I was feeling so lonely and sad. While I am home alone taking care of everything (house,kids,finances) WH was out exploring another life. Sometimes I think that WS does these things just to be hurtful. How can think that the actions/words used won't cause harm? Yep...no more slip ups...going pitch black. The little contact I had with him has really put me in a bad place. At this moment, I can say that I really don't care what happens to him anymore.

I know I have work at not obsessing...there is just a void...but it's just because I don't know what/where his head is. Well, we know where his head is but How? It's so gross. Tami...STOP...THINKING.

I will need to fill my time with something constructive. I probably will need to get a 3 job...not looking forward to it, but it needs to be done. I don't want to be living hand to mouth (my case to hips!).

Thank you again for the support...it was needed.


(((FLED)))
OMG--I am so happy to hear from you! Moving..why? Everything okay? So really my neck of the woods...like humerus close or more like tibia close?! If close enough maybe a road trip to meet up once the moving chaos is over.

DD moved out sun....I miss her already. But she called me everyday since. In May we are going to Hawaii..she'll be spending a week w/me in Oahu then I will have about 10 days on the Big Island on my own. This was suppose to be our 20th anniver. trip...so sorta bitter sweet. WH booked this as his commitment to our M last fall. He isn't going-enough said.

I am so glad to have heard from you...I just been submerged in my own crap that I haven't the energy to post.

Have fun w/DS during spring break!

Tami

Hi tami4,

I haven't read all of your threads but I have read this one. I have deep sympathy with your situation and other folks have repeated what you already knew about the importance of darkness.

One thing struck me about your post was that your WH still has access to your home - why? I don't know the background but it seems to me that this in itself will always make it difficult for you to maintain isolation from him.

You also seem to be willing to hear about him and what he is up to from other people. I know that deep down you are desperate to hear that the affair is crumbling and that he wants to come back. It's natural to seek out any snippet of info that might be evidence that this is happening. Unfortunately, as you have experienced, you might get evidence to the contrary. This is just going to prevent you from developing the independence that Plan B is supposed to give you and make it easier for you to 'fall off the wagon' like you did.

As Mark1952 responded on my thread yesterday: "...unmet expectations are the killer of your soul during all of this." He's right.

I wonder if it might be beneficial for you to invest some of that spare mental energy into eliminating opportunities to see or hear about them. I've noticed that when someone talks about having seen my WW, it triggers off the obsession big time and I feel awful. Now I just politely say to those people that I would prefer not to hear about her. The comments quickly dry up afterwards and I find it's better that way.

I think the darkness should work both ways instead of the one-way mirror you seem to have at the moment. He gets to know nothing about you and importantly you don't get to hear about him. He knows the conditions that need to be met if you are to accept a change to that situation. Shouldn't this be the only circumstance in which you want to hear from or about him again?

Also, might it help for you to mentally rehearse your response if he attempts to communicate with you again without the necessary conditions in place? With that done, you can park it away and stop endlessly fantasising about that too. You can just bring those responses out of storage and blow the dust off when the time is right.

These things won't stop you thinking about him but they may help reduce the amount of time that you spend doing it a bit. I wish I had some more strategies to offer you but these are the only ones I've found that worked for me in any way.

Best Wishes,

P

Principled:

BUSTED--yes he has access to our home. Long story, but it comes down to this: where he is staying for now belongs to a friend who is in the process of selling. So during the daytime there are showings and they need the place empty. WH comes home during the day while I am at work. He is gone by the time I come home from work so I don't have any contact with him. This will have to change.

I admit that I have not been completely "firm" in my resolve to go dark--I understand and agree that it is the best thing to do. But to be honest, I am struggling with the thoughts of being set aside. My own personal issue of self-worth. I do know that after the brief contact, I have felt worse then before and I don't like feeling so "weak" and "pathetic". I am not a needy person...and in most things I don't have worries about my self confidence. But this whole nightmare has placed self doubt in myself where there were very little before. And yes you are right, this is the time to improve on myself and clear away the "mind" games that WS are so fond of.

Mark1952 is a very wise man...again you are right. I'll send myself to time-out! I am trying my darnest to not have to hear about him-it's a hard habit to break. I will work on your suggestions, they are sound and logical--which is where I normally live. I'm a black/white person--don't like spending time in the gray zones.

BUT in my defense...I have re connected with several girl friends from my past and we go out a least once every couple of weeks. And we DON"T talk about my situation. Spending time w/others have been very helpful and it's even better when they boast your ego (after a couple glasses of wine--we are all feeling pretty great about eachother--"We are women hear us.....giggle like idiots!") <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't tell him what/where I am and my kids are instructed to just say "Mom's out" should he ask. Luckily my kids are of ages (DD-19/DS-16) where they can communicate w/WH w/o me. At this point, I am weeding out each bad habit/obsession as they arise.

I am trying to do the best in the worse possible situation. I know I haven't been perfect in my excution on Plan B. But I know I can/will do better. I appreciate your advice and grateful that you took the time to post. Sometimes I feel lost on this forum--there are so many of us out there--it all seem so...I don't even know....stupid. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Thank You!
Tami

Tami,

How close is OHSU?


Fled

FLED,
OHSU is about 15 miles/30 mins from my house. I'm on the out skirts of Portland. Have you been there yet? The place is huge. But they put in a new sky tram. I have not been there myself. But I heard that the campus is beautiful.

I've gotta go...passing out on the couch!

Talk to you later, love to hear more about what's going on.

Tami

tami, if you decide to do Plan B, I would change the locks and launch it with a Plan B letter. But what you describe is not Plan B at all. Plan B means complete and total separation where you are in control of your life. It doesn't include your husband sleeping away every night and coming home every day. That ain't Plan B.

In your scenario, it is more of an avoidance where he still has complete control and is better able to enjoy the comforts of home while carrying on his affair. It is much easier to conduct his affair this way. You have placed yourself at the mercy of a wayward. That is what plan B is designed to PREVENT. As it is now, he has all the benefits of home and family and then can go out and play with the OW at night. The situation you describe actually ENABLES the affair.

a good Plan B letter: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897

ML,

I was wondering when you would sniff me out! Yes, agreed--your right. My plan b has been half-a$$. This is the my letter, tell me what you think (be kind!):

Dear WH,
In our 20years of marriage we have gone thru births, deaths, sickness and everything in between. Thru it all we have been each others rock. But recent events has cracked the very core of our foundation. Because of these cracks, temptation was allow to come in and cause chaos.

Looking back..I see my part in the breakdown of our marriage. The "should ofs, could ofs" are very clear now...and for not taking actions and being available to you in the way you needed...for that I am sorry.

I believe in "us"...it's always been you and me against the world. I believe it can be that way again.

So it is with a heavy and broken heart that I write this letter.

I will let you go. We will not be contact in anyway...no coming over,even while I am not at home, no family get together for any reason. You live your life...I'll live mine...separately. I will remain faithful and true to the our vows spoken many years ago before God and everyone.

What that means for you is that you will NEVER have contact with OW again in your life, complete honesty, willingness to be transparent in all things...I know that this will be most difficult for you as you don't like to be monitor. But for us to ever have any kind of recovery this the only way that I am willing to proceed.


You have always been my navigator in our travels together...but we are no longer traveling on the same road. I will pray that when our road cross that we can plot a new course together.

I love you...more then I can ever express. Nothing in this world would make me happier then for us to continue our journey together.

Love
T

Locks are being changed next week..this is hard. How do not fall into despair? Can I say this REALLY SUCKS!
Tami

Tami - I would change around a few things. I like the original letter from Ethan that Melody gave the link to, better.

I would leave out the you remaining faithful while letting him go do his thing. That makes it sound like he can continue his affair and you will wait forever.

Also the part about NC with the OW is not quite right.

Believer,

So I pretty much copied Ethan's letter--was there any part of my letter you did like. I was worried it would sound like a form letter. Here's the new letter:

Dear WH,

It is with the heaviest of hearts that I write you this letter. I am saddened by what has become of us, our friendship, our marriage. This letter is written to you as a necessity. Allow me to explain.

The 20 years that we have been together were filled with an endless number of hugs, smiles, tears and laughs. I have loved you every minute of every day that we have spent together.

I realize that I have not been a perfect wife to you. I see now that both my attitude and lack of availability drove a wedge into our marriage. I apologize to you. You must know that I never intended to hurt you or push you away from me.

The pain that your relationship with OW during our marriage has been unimaginable. Continued contact with you has the potential of destroying my love for you and I don't want that to happen.

It is because of this that I must insist that we no longer contact each other, until you are no longer involved with OW. I ask that you respect my decision. In the event of an emergency, or any necessary financial matters, please contact your sister, and she will contact me. Once you have ended your relationship with OW completely, please contact me, and I will be willing to discuss restoring our friendship and marriage.

I am committed to our marriage. I believe that we can build a marriage that is stronger and more beautiful than we have experienced. Beginning today, I walk forward in life, and I want you to walk with me. I love you with all of my heart.

Your loving wife,
Tami

Better? I'm so conflicted...I want my M to work but w/my husband. This person who is posing as my H...I don't like him. He's spineless liar without integrity or honor. It's so hard to separate the two. When I look at him, I see his eyes, his lips, his smile...his dimples...then you hear all the crap coming out of his mouth...makes me want to just scream!

Having a bad night. Talked to DD19 today.. told her that I won't be participating in the upcoming family b-days and that she would need to set up whatever w/WH. She got really upset..she couldn't believe that I would not be a part of the family gatherings. I explained to her why I was doing that. She said so to punish dad you are going to punish us too? I told her that's not what I was doing...I told her that I just can't pretend everything is "normal" b/c it's easier for everyone else. To do that is almost saying "it's ok that your dad is seeing/sleeping with another woman...I'll just lay down and you all can swipe your feet on me".

I think it really hit her what this all means. Up till now she has been nonchalant in her reaction to everything. I mean she's been angry at her father...but she was removed enough from everything, it wasn't as in her face as it was in her brother. So I think it was a shock to her. By the end of our conversation she had calmed down and said that it just won't be the same w/o me there. She also wanted to know "why did Dad do this, I just don't understand". I told her neither do I.

After talking w/her I was so angry at WH for putting our children thru this...I can learn to deal with this...but no matter how old the child...it is still their "daddy".

Then if that wasn't enough. Our son had a school function which I was going to alone. When we got home, WH was waiting for us to hear how it went. I was walking by him when he grabbed my hand and said he had something to tell me. I said to him if it's not what I had outlined in our last talk then I don't want to hear it. He just looked at me, with his mouth hanging open. I just shook my head and went into the house.

DS said to him "Dad leave her alone. Why do you want to keep hurting her...what has she ever done to you?" Then he walked into the house.

I know I shouldn't have talked to him, but I didn't know what else to do. In the past I would have stopped and listen to what he had to say. But I think he was surprised that I was calm and maybe there was a look in my eyes that said "don't f w/me right now, I'm in the mood for you bs".

Maybe he got the point. Who know with alien waywards.
Tami

nice

Hi tami,

Sorry to hear you had a distressing time with your kids but, as you have learned, they appreciate the honesty. At 19 they are quite capable of discerning right from wrong and making their own judgements on the propriety of Daddy.

I didn't get back to you on your last reply. You wrote:

'... but it comes down to this: where he is staying for now belongs to a friend who is in the process of selling. So during the daytime there are showings and they need the place empty.'

So what? He's a grown up isn't he? Let him hang around in a mall, a coffee shop or anywhere else but not at your place. Why should he have life so easy?

As long as you continue to make it easy for him to contact you, then you are going to be continually upset and, whilst it's not the objective, there is no adverse effect on him whatsoever.

Get properly into Plan B tami. Change the locks and work through an intermediary for childcare arrangements. Fix it so that he has no opportunity to bump into you and make it clear via a repeated Plan B letter that you will only see him under the right circumstances. He is not welcome at your home until then. If you don't have your finances separate so that you and the kids are protected financially, then do that too with a lawyer if necessary.

You see, you demonstrate to him by your daily action that you aren't serious about what you wrote. Just like you with him, he will judge you by your actions and not your words.

You have to sort this out for your own sanity.

Best wishes,

P

Sorry it was tough for you. But shouldn't the WS be banned from the family events until he gets his ****** together instead of you? I'm not trying to stir the pot with your kids Tami, but, if his behavior is causing trouble, they get to decide. If mom can't come because dad is still having an A? then who do I want to have my family time with? If they don't want to do that, that's okay too, they deserve time with their dad as well, but they need to plan for to separate events, one to spend with you and one to spend with the WH.

Hang in there, you are finally making moves to protect yourself. You need to do this because you ARE more important.

Fled

Hi Jimld,

A little clarification on your post, what does "nice" mean? I'm not sure if this is a complement or not! Just wondering.

Tami