Where do I begin?

I am a BS. I found out that my ww was having an EA on 12/25/2007. To make a long story short I found out through phone records, confronted her with the information, she began to spill out the WW venom (I love and respect you but I am not in love with you, etc).

To give some background information, I am a bi-vocational pastor a small but growing church. I felt called to the ministry at 18; I went to Bible College to pursue my dream of serving the Lord.

I met my ww at our home church, we married once I graduated from bible college. She knew my passion for the ministry, she wanted the same thing. I was 21 when we married and she was 19. We knew what our life purpose.

My passion was to help build small churches thus to supplement our income I went to computer school. I did not want us to suffer financially due to the ministry. For the past 10+ years we have been Sunday school teachers, youth pastors, evangelist, and for the past 4 years pastor and pastor’s wife while maintaining a full-time secular employment.

Life was hard, but it was good. The first few years were a challenge, but we turned a corner about a year ago and our church has never been stronger, our finances were rock solid, we have 3 wonderful boys.

Also in ministry, we’ve gained the love, and admiration of many of our elder ministers. I’m an elected official on our organization, one of the youngest in our fellowship.

As I said, we had many challenges, and in hindsight I see where our marriage was not as strong as it could have been, but I’d say it was a b or b+. We were both happy.

On to the A. My ww was the worship leader at our church. The OM was the (former) drummer. At the time he was only 19 (now he’s a manly 20). He has a par-time job as a bank teller, no income, lives at home, and comes from a poor family who were members of our church.

When I found out I contacted our long-time pastors. They tried to counsel her, but she could not come out of the fog. I set up meetings with SH, she agreed with what SH said, but she said she was too weak to do what was right.

She was at home till Feb 8. Up until that time I was Plan A hard. I think I did a pretty good job of plan A. At first I was too soft and allowed her to ‘go out’, which at times she told me was to see the OM. Then after getting stronger and understanding the carrot/stick, I began to expose. To family, to key leaders in the church, to his family.

It stopped it for a while, but they picked up the A. She said she wanted to move out to get some ‘space’ and to sort her feelings. My agreement with her was that while she’s living at our house, she can’t go out with OM or anyone else because I don’t trust her. When she does go out she might as well pack her stuff because she is not coming back home.

WW for the most part was a stay at home mom. All her skill sets are from the church. When she did work, it was for other churches front office. She is amazing with people, and was an awesome Pastor’s wife.

I say that because she did not have the money to just get up and leave. She had no job. So she went job hunting, found what she thought was a contract – to- perm administrative job that was going to finance her ‘fantasy’ with OM. That’s why she left when she did, on Friday Feb 8. The following Monday she found out her job was terminated; no she is still looking for a full time job.

She was staying with former members of our church (that’s another story). At the moment, she is house sitting for a 4 bedroom house 45 minutes from me and the kids for only 300 a month.

With our big city traffic there it would be almost impossible to bring our DS6 to kindergarten during the week.

I’ll admit that when she moved out on Feb 8, my plan B was not so good. I do not approve of where she is staying, and I don’t want my 3 boys in that environment. I told ww that. She has complied, but only is she could come over my place to see the kids. She has tagged along when me and the boys to do stuff. This was a big gray area for me.

I gave her a plan b letter. I have stayed true to it except for maybe 2 times that I called her, but she will call me at sporadic times to come over, see the boys, or to hang with us.

Finally, Feb 29, with her moving into her rental house that weekend, I felt I was ready to go completely dark. I said my feelings for her have not changed, but I do not want to speak or see her. If she has something important to tell me about the boys, then leave a text message, e-mail, or voicemail.

She has not liked that at all. She will call or text me to talk about ‘the boys’, or tried to get me to answer. She has been trying to find my trigger in order for me to interact with her. She’s tried to be angry and sweet.

If my friends call to hang out or talk (been doing the plan b of working on myself) she’d get angry that I did not tell her who I was talking to or where I was going. She even thinks that I am cheating – way far from it.

At yesterdays exchange at my place I act as if she is not there. I don’t even look at her. She can’t stand that. She was being extra nice, waiting for me to take the bait – I ignored her. As she was leaving, she wanted me to look at her, and she wanted another explanation as to why I am acting this way. I said for her to read the letter I gave her (plan b letter). As she was leaving, she asked if I could give her a hug, I said no, I moved away even further, but she cornered me, gave me an extended hug, and a kiss on the cheek. She then left. I did not hug her back or respond in any way

But here is my dilemma that I hope you guys can help me with. This morning we had to discuss visitation. She wants to stay at our home on Mondays and Tuesdays because it would be ‘too hard on the boys’ to drive them back and forth. She would have to drive them almost an hour one way in the morning to take my kindergartner to school and to take the younger two boys to our nanny at my house.

I told her that I did not want her to come to our home and I did not want her stay there with the boys, especially since she has a place now. I also told her that we can meet at a neutral place to do exchanges. I told her I want as little contact with her as possible. She did not like that, wants to know who I’m talking to, why the change. (I want to go even darker).

But she said that she has a ‘right’ to be at our house, her name is on it. She began to cry about how much she misses the boys. She said she will contact a lawyer to find out her rights to stay at the house, so if I don’t want her there on Mondays and Tuesdays, then I’ll have to spend the night somewhere else. I do not want to do that, I am firmly planted at my home.

My question is how do I handle that. It is still her house, legally I do not know if I can force her not to stay over. How do I get through the fog and tell her that I do not want to see or talk to her. Is she just doing this to get to me or is it really for the boys?

I’d like ya’ll comments and suggestions

PS I have been so encouraged and inspired by ya’lls post particularly the one by mywifeilove. I truly am grateful for the MB community, please don’t take it easy on me with ya’lls advice just because I’m a minister. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BH(me)-31, WW-29, DS-6, DS-3, DS-1
dday-12/25/2007 plan a till 2/8
now in plan B

Welcome, refugemb...may MB remain one for you...

You have a choice of intermediaries within your church, don't you? Why did you go to a somewhat Plan B (with letter) instead of going really dark from the get go?

Do you fully understand how many ENs you do meet for her? Just your voice...even a single word from it...contains your spirit...a part of you...which does meet an EN for her. When you communicate...your written word (onscreen or otherwise) contains your remembered voice...and presence, too.

Your presence matters...Plan B is about removing that presence...because she's choosing not to be present in her marriage...and you are precious, as necessary to the marriage and she is...

Protects you from her voice, her presence, as well...so that no fantasy leaks into the light of reality. She is actively attacking your union...that's reality. To somewhat meet ENs, have presence, covers part of the attack like a lie...the fantasy leak.

Plan A is bringing reality with full contact in a new way...learn from your Plan A that you matter, you're significant...and her A is about her, not you, 'k? She knows, feels guilt and continues in fantasy...read Resonance's post about The Wayward Mind...

And don't go there. I think you're there because you've got your toe in...your pinky finger...got overlap. You go dark right now because she left the house...change your locks...you know she's choosing the hour's drive...don't make it easy for a WS...don't support the fantasy.

"I know you're choosing to live separately, taking what you can get, because you're putting OM ahead of yourself, your kids and our marriage. I accept that's your choice right now."

Because it is...get out of the way of the consequences to her choices...and ask for help and encouragement in your friends and family to block the light of her fantasy seeping in...and to protect you in your Plan B.

You know God works...and when we get out of the way of his plans, our plans work...

Stick to yours...keep posting, reading, praying and accepting God's work in your life...you're not doing it wrong...do not waver from your goal or make your actions dependent on hers...don't focus on the outcome...not in our hands...

What you don't know, find out...find out your legal standing in your city and state (country?). You control your knowledge, your awareness...and your choices matter as much as hers do.

Thank you for being here...oh, you might want to change your stats...you aren't a betrayed wife (BW) are you? This is all so recent, so painful and devastating...thank you for finding MB, this forum...in my prayers...

LA

Thank you for your repsonse. Its helped me a great deal already.

I did not go to a dark plan b at first becuase she did not have a place, and I did not want the kids over where she way staying. So I compromised and allowed her to come to mine. Then she was around way too much.

I want to go completely dark. Its very hard to with 3 kids. I thought of asking some members in my church to be an intermediary, but I think it would be too emotional for them to deal with.

I'm looking to hire somone to be the intermediary - maybe a collge kid.

Any other advice?

I understand why you chose to do what you did...and now you're ready for something different.

Doesn't mean you did wrong or screwed up...means you had the opportunity to set visitation as not at her old place, bad environment...when you began your Plan B...I say this to widen your options, your choices...worse thing for BS's to choose is a mindset of "only choice" and it's a understandable mindset...you didn't get a choice in her A...I like to emphasize options to balance that fact.

Using neighbors, friends and relatives to support you in standing for your marriage...you pick an intermediary to funnel all communication through...protects you...can include you not being there when she visits the children...you don't return until she's gone...so it's like a somewhat supervised visitation time...neighbors can be there for the arrival, departure, alert you, as a buffer...and the support of these simple actions means the community support...keeps you knowing you're not alone.

Don't assume for others...look what you are rising to that you may not have known you had in you...respect others can, even want to do the same. In support of you...may be in support of their own faith...in support of marriage...don't get in the way of their offerings. That cuts out God's aid and succor.

Means she emails/calls/voicemails someone else for planning visitation and answering questions. A funnel, if you will...which delivers just facts to you--not feelings/threats/offerings...distilled stuff.

I wouldn't hire anyone...again...DJ's are LBs...and to more than your spouse, too. When we assume for others, we negate respect...asking and letting go the outcome (we can't control it anyway) is respectful.

Get educated on healthy boundaries and the law in your area. I highly recommend "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend. My wish is for you to find comfort, support and clarity with it. Not me saying you don't know what's in it, or don't have healthy boundaries...more options, giving a wider way for God to work right now in your life and your marriage.

Another suggestion...give a call-out (making a new thread or retitling this one temporarily) to Mimi_here to help you out in your Plan B. She's terrific...an infidelity angel, if there could be such things...I believe she'd be a blessing to your thread.

There are others, too...silentlucidity, queeniesnewlife, lunamare...can't think of all of them right now...a whole group of Killer B's...BS's who've been where you are right now...help each other...sorry my mind blanked on the whole group...alerting them to your thread would be a tiny step to augment the brave big one you've already taken--which is to post on MB, asking for what you want...so God can answer.

You know you're not alone...I'll probably repeat as I think I have a redundant nature on MB at this point...you truly are not alone. In more ways than you can imagine.

Means you're not standing alone for your marriage, either. We'll stand with you. Allow for others in your life to do the same.

LA

Thank you so much LovingAnyway. Yesterday I did send her the line you gave me "I know you're choosing to live separately, taking what you can get, because you're putting OM ahead of yourself, your kids and our marriage. I accept that's your choice right now." And I repeated that I did not want any contact with her nor did I want her at the house.

She left a voicemail with the "He's not the reason why I left" and I have a right to be at the house and I'll get a lawyer. As she was leaving the voicemail I could hear the fear in her voice. She's sounded very unsure of herself...

Last night was bible study at church. I arrived at church a little early to prepare for our mid-week bible study. By they way, the church has been very supportive of me through this. They are behind me 100%. Of course we lost a few members, but we've actually gained new members too.

Anyways, I had to go outside of the church and wouldn't you know, WW was in the parking lot flashing her lights for me to come over to talk. She says she needs the house key because she needs some of her clothes. (but she knows how to get in our house without a key) She begins to say that she does not want it to get ugly, she just wants to come over, even spend the night to be with the boys because she misses them. She begins to cry. People are starting to arrive for church, it was surreal.

The conversation begins to go all over the map (the church, her temp jobs, us,)The longer I talked to her the more my defenses began to slip. She then begins to be super sweet, I feel like I'm being reeled in. I say "I got to go, church is about to start". She says "wait don't go yet", and then she begins to talk about something else.

I goofed, I gave her the house key to get in, and I said that if she still wanted to talk then be at home after church is over and we can talk after the boys go to bed.

I'm thinking to myself ,if she wanted to be with the boys, why didn't she take them back to the house with her. They stayed at church with me.

She was at home, she was super helpful with them. I ignored her. She begins to be super sweet again, trying to interact with me. I am ignoring her some more. I stayed in the bedroom with the door shut, listening to music and reading a magazine. After she gets the 2 older boys into bed she starts to sing out to our 1 year old boy in a regular tone, not in a soft lullabies voice. She's singing some of the worship songs that she sang at church. Some of my favs. She was working it hard (or maybe it was just me)

She finally laid the baby down for bed, comes in my room, and asks to talk. We go to the living room. She begins to say how hard it is for her, money, the distance, not having a stable job. I am becoming weak (I admit it, please I need a 2x4 upside my head.) I said I am not budging on her coming over for Mon. and Tues., but since its late and she has a temp assignment close to the house in the morning (it was) she can stay over tonight. She said no and that she did not want to be pitied but that she does want to stay on Mondays and Tuesdays and there is nothing I can do about it. She then left.

To make matters worse, I called her after she left to get ‘her address to her place, in case of emergency with the boys’. I felt like such a sucker. Fortunately, she did not pick up.

I am desperate for a communication buffer. So last night I spoke with her sister who lives in another state to be that buffer. I explained why, she totally understands and agreed to do it if her sister was ok with it. She says she's going to talk to WW today.

WW called me back this morning and left a voicemail, very nice tone, saying that she was just calling me back from last night, she stayed over her girlfriends house on our side my side of town, but was at a gas parking lot for 30 minutes debating wither or not to come back to the house last night. I don’t know, it sounds like wanting to cake eat to me? What do ya’ll think?

I know what I want. I want to go dark. I need some insight to where WW is coming from. I need some series strategy help.

anyone?

Regardless of how things turn out, you will survive.

She may come home, she may end the marriage, yet Romans 8:38 still applies.

refugemb - Pastor, are you sure you want comments from anyone? I'll wait until you answer. But while you are contemplating an answer let me ask you another question. Are you familiar with Nouthetic Counseling?

May God grant you His wisdom during this time of trial.

Thanks for your post:

I'd like advice with the Marriage Builders foundation. I beleive its firmly grounded in God's word, and it works for personal recovery and it increases chances for marital recovery.

I've had sessions with SH, and he is a beleiver as well.

I am also a counselor, but you know the saying about lawyers and Dr, don't operate on family or represent them either. I've helped others, but this is so close to home - I'm reaching out.

You need to find out your legal situation and options as soon as possible. Today would be good.

She is doing a great job of playing with her food (you). Time to toughen up and put a couple cups of salt in that cake she craves.

You are not even close to Plan B and she knows it. You have waffled and she has kicked in the doors multiple times now.

Adultery with a 19 year old, unemployed drummer living with his parents will not last. But you have to allow the full consequences of her actions and choices to fall on her like the Monty Python 10,000 lb weigh.

Talk to a lawyer today. Get tough and stick to your Plan B or get out of it because the worst thing you can do is talk the tough line and keep caving in.

R,

Understandable to be susceptible to any tone of kindness, any statements of pain or guilt by your spouse. Remember, WW isn't your W. She's in there...you catch glimpses...remind yourself this is not your W.

You are Plan B'ing WW...you stated in your letter you would welcome home the W...do NOT welcome the WW. You are not a liar. Do not add to your self betrayal.

For a dark Plan B...you need physically close folks...who would have been at your home when WW came over to see the boys last night (heard her singing, her words, her stuff...NOT YOU)...and who would let you stay at their house on Monday nights. That's workable. The rest of the week, no visitation? (Like a negotiation.)

You're a counselor...listen and repeat...hand back her words to her...her feelings/thoughts/perspective right now. Do so carefully...and notice how full of care your focus on doing this is...you will not feel as vulnerable to her super sweetness...won't be craving it...when you see how loving this is to you and your marriage. Respecting will lessen the fear and pain...not erase them...and fill in that craving for her approval and allowance of your influence on her (that was part of what I craved when WH moved out). Right now, she's cut off your influence.

You know you didn't control that all along...sure brings it home, again, to us when our spouses are in a wayward state of mind.

That's okay...her perspective is hers...do not take it, meditate on it, walk into it or live it. It's yucky...put that down.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Dark means you change your numbers (which is a pain and worth doing), for her emails to your intermediary WITHOUT opening them (keep promises to yourself...it helps), delete any voicemails the MOMENT you recognize her voice (be good to yourself)...and when she flashes her lights in the parking lot...you get another church member to go over and be the temporary intermediate.

This is not disrespectful...you are not dealing with your wife...you're dealing with your WW. Very different. Stop taking the hits that make you more vulnerable and less likely to not enforce your boundaries.

Hero's journey, R...no easy task in the whole bunch. Very worth it...and you are very able...flex your muscles through your choices...

Like you want your WW to "just say no" to OM...you gotta hold yourself to that...when you feel the tug to cross your boundary...hug yourself and just say no, 'k?

Have you already read Boundaries in Marriage, btw? I love the new title to your thread (supporting your choice)...and wonder if you've searched and read up on Orchid (awesome MB poster) and her "reverse babble" posts? Helpful to distinguish between W and WW...preparation, not perfection.

Hugs to your boys and your self, R...you can do this. No doubt.

LA

refuge - MB is very good. I have been here almost 6 years now, following my wife's affair. I believe that many of the MB principles are very sound, and that the site operates on basically a "Good Samaritan" framework.

But there is also a difference between believers and unbelievers and while the MB principles are good as far as they go, they do not, nor should they, take the place of God as the Wonderful Counselor or His Word in counseling for believers.



That is good. There is wisdom in "many counselors" to assist in times of trouble.




Yes, most of us are aware of that "saying."


So, if you are going to a "strict Plan B" now, especially after such a short time in Plan A, who is reaching out to your wife presently regarding her relationship with God?

You stated that your wife was having an Emotional Affair. Is it also likely that she was having a Physical Affair?

The "end" of Plan B is either a divorce or the end to an affair and a willingness to attempt to recover the marriage.

Plan B is generally only entered into after a period of Plan A (usually 3-6 months) and only as a "last ditch attempt" to end the affair while preserving what remaining love you might still have for your wife.

Are you that close to losing your love for your wife or was there some other reason for implementing Plan B after so short a time in Plan A?

From a Marriage Builders perspective, what Emotional Needs might you not have been fulfilling for your wife that she may have used as an excuse to get them filled outside of your marriage?

From a biblical perspective, how does she rationalize in her mind that God's teaching is clear....NO unrepentant adulterers will be in heaven?

I am trying to understand some of the dynamics of the affair and of your actions since finding out about the affair, in case you might be wondering where I am coming from. It is rather difficult to offer advice or counsel without some understanding of the situation enough to formulate opinions about what advice might be appropriate or helpful to you, your wife, and your marital situation.

Is the EA still going on?

IS your wife, despite having been a worship leader, in your opinion, truly a born again believer who has accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior?

What do YOU want, a restored marriage with her or a divorce?

ForevereHers,
Good questions. I'll tackle this one:
Are you that close to losing your love for your wife or was there some other reason for implementing Plan B after so short a time in Plan A?

She was adamant about moving out, since mid-January. She was biding her time until she had money, job and a place to stay. She had her mind made up. While she was at the house, I plan A pretty good. Carrot and stick approach was my strategy. When she decided to move out I felt I had to then go to a plan b.

My wife is a born again believer. She was changed her value system to justify her affair. During the months preceding the a, I now see the warning signs, I take some of the blame.

The EA and PA (evidence from snooping while in plan a) is still going on.

I think her en that is being met by OM are affection and conversation. I think she may have felt neglected and thus venerable.

She is a borderline compulsive sanguine. She can't stand being alone. If and when it comes crashing down with the OM I want to be that lighthouse for her to find her way back from the fog. I don’t think she’ll last long with a solid plan b (just an opinion, but I have no expectations)

I do not want a divorce. I will go to the gates of ****** and fight for my M

Oh yes. I aggree, the Lord and his word is the ultimate guide through this. I also lean to Godly men in my life.

The reason I posted is becuase so many people want to give their "Godly" advice and say the nice "Christian cliches" to help, but reality is they have no idea what this is all about. Either they do not understand the dynamics of affairs for lack of knowledge or they have never expirenced this horrible tragedy. Therefore, they are not sure how to help.

It kind of like when somone tries to comfort someone who just lost their loved one from, say cancer. People want to do or say something to help - and sometimes they can be so off they do more harm than good (ie God loved your __ so much he wanted him/her with Him in heaven).

Yet, here on the post, I find people who inspire me (like mywifilove). They've felt what I felt, stuck to the MB, and by the grace of God they have overcome!

I'm just ramblin. Thanks foreverhers...

Refuge - "ramblin" is quite okay. For those of us who have been through this mess we quite understand how it affects things and the "craziness" that it imparts to our minds and how fast our minds jump from one thing to the next.




Obviously, that is not unusual. Dealing with sin and evil is never easy and it is very unsettling to a lot of fine people. What you have observed is correct, even with a lot of Pastors who's only counseling training was in Seminary, they just don't have the practical experience and can get very uncomfortable with trying to deal with not only the sin aspect, but they very real emotional aspects.

Here on the forums you will find a lot of people who have practical experience with infidelity, from both the BS and the WS sides. A lot of the advice is very practical, even if it may not be connected directly to Christianity. The "difference" is usually found in the "perspective" of who is actually "in control" and in the concepts of forgiveness and submission of one's will. So my "advice" in that area is to evaluate all the advice and sift through it for what you think is not only practical, but consistent with honoring God as you endure this very difficult time. I'll "warn" you in advance that it's not always easy to "be angry (righteous anger) but don't allow that anger to be expressed in sinful ways," to paraphrase the Scripture.


Okay, so let's turn to some more immediate issues:

Then this is how I will approach my comments and potential advice, that you have MADE your decision and will wait patiently (or as patiently as you can given the inherent stress of this sort of situation) on the Lord's timing, while remaining sensitive to, and open to, what the Lord may also want to say or teach you in a Romans 8:28-29 sort of way.

Things may seem "impossible" at times or the stress and anguish might seem overwhelming at times, so let me pass onto you my own Scriptural "anchor" to hold onto when the days seem dark and the pit seems bottomless….Philippians 4:13. This strength is available to you 24/7 as one of the Lord's own children, through our bridegroom Jesus Christ. None of us, in my humble opinion, has enough strength on our own to weather THIS sort of storm (so great is this storm that it is the one reason that Jesus Himself has granted to Faithful Spouses for ending a marriage).




Thanks for the information, it helps a lot.

Okay, there is a term that is used around here a lot and if you don't already know it let me say it, "Fog." Another phrase that is used frequently is "Abducted by Aliens."

They both pretty much describe the Wayward Spouse mindset that settles in once the step into allowing themselves to become entangled in adultery.

The person you wind up seeing is wearing the same skin as before, looks just like the person you married, but mentally it's as if they have been taken over by some alien and "common sense" and "logic" fly out the window, to be replace almost exclusively by emotional responses and "rationalizations" for what they KNOW is wrong behavior.

Your rationale for going to a Plan B appears sound due to her decision. Whether or not you go to a strict Plan B or do what I did, which was what I call a "modified Plan B," is a choice you will have to make, since only you really have all the information available and know what your wife has been saying to you. Either way, the affair WILL end because the Holy Spirit will not give her any peace.




Of course she had to change her value system because God is quite clear about His position regarding adultery. They are not called "commandments" for nothing, or they would have been called "suggestions." The "blame" that you can take is the same as I had to take, you may have contributed to an "atmosphere" where she felt certain needs were not being met and that she became vulnerable to getting them met outside of the marriage. In all likelihood this affair did not "just happen," it happened over time. Once there has been a declaration of "feelings" or "love," it only a short matter of time before the EA becomes a PA. Don't be surprised if you hear nonsensical statements such as "God must have wanted this person in my live or He wouldn't have allowed it to happen." That's not how God operates, but it is a common way of trying to rationalize deliberate and willful sin.




I have no doubt about that or she would be begging to come home. It will end, however, because as a believer she cannot serve two masters. The only question is how much God will have to "turn up the volume" in order for her to hear Him and be convicted of her sin.




This is possible, but it's still an excuse for choosing to willfully sin against God. That is the primary issue that I'd like to focus on if you'd care to discuss that. Here is the basis of my position and the "information" that needs to be imparted to your wife, as a professing believer, "If you love me, obey my commands." While our feelings are valid and God-given, what we do in response to those feelings needs to be done through the humble submission of our will to God's will whenever our feelings, thoughts, emotions, etc. want to lead us AWAY from God rather than TOWARD God.

So let's talk about an area of information that I am unclear about for right now.

Was there a Matthew 18:15-17 church discipline intervention?

I know that you wrote, "When I found out I contacted our long-time pastors. They tried to counsel her, but she could not come out of the fog." But I am wondering if that was the end of the intervention attempts.

I am also wondering about what she said in response to the attempted counseling (not sure if it was counseling or confrontation) so I can get some idea of what is rolling around in her head.

Also, now that you have moved to a Plan B, who, if anyone, is continuing to talk to her about God and her relationship with God?

The obvious intention of an intervention is to achieve confession, repentance, and restoration. Not know what sort of counseling the "long-term pastors" attempted or how they approached their meetings with her, I am limited in commenting more at this time.




I haven't heard the term "sanguine" in a long time. But it does give some insight into her personality. Thank you.

You stated earlier that the OM is only 20 (younger than my youngest of 4 children), so I can tell you that he has no "brain" yet, regardless of what you might have heard. But, since he was a drummer in the band I will make the assumption that he, too, is a professing believer.

So are his parents also believers?

Have you exposed the affair to his parents?

Is your wife and this young man attending church anywhere?

What does he do for a living?

Does your wife's parents know about the affair?


One thing that is a must in breaking up an affair is to shine the light of day on it. Exposure of the affair to those who have a "need to know" is essential whenever the WS is reluctant to end the affair immediately after discovery by the BS. How much "exposing" have you done? It isn't easy and it shouldn't be done indiscriminately, but it is effective in helping to "part the fog" and allow some reality to "peek in."

God bless.

Refuge - I also would like to ask you how you are doing. This is NOT easy and I'm concerned for you and your walk with God too.

If you'd prefer to talk about those sorts of things "out of the public eye," you can email me about that, or anything else for that matter, at **edit**

refuge, how are you doing? Any new developments?

I just want to lay out an update. After some soul searching I changed strategies and began a PLAN A. I was in plan b for a brief period and ww began to become an emotional wreck pretty bad. There is already trouble between ww and om.

Both ww and om are LB to a high degree. I decided that I wanted to be there for her, to show her there is a way out to a better life. There is a path back to restoration with God and our marriage.

OK before I get to ahead of myself let me catch you up to date. WW is living about 45-60 minutes away from our homestead. There is no way she can have our 3 boys during the week. She would spend 3 hours of driving time in the morning from her house to mine (to drop off the 2 little ones at my house with the nanny) and then make sure our oldest makes it to school, plus she would have to drive to work. No way. So she stops by the house to see them a little while during the weekdays. And she is supposed to have them every other weekend.

I guess this is typical ww. She is not able to handle the boys by herself. She is not a good parent right now. When she has them she is calling me for help. She opened up and cried that she does not have the strength to deal with the children, its really sad.

So my approach with ww is this. To be there for her. To build a comfortable and enjoyable environment when she is with me. To let me know that she can talk to me about anything. And she has. She has been talking to me about her fights with om. They curse each other out, they yell. She said everyday is drama with him. Weird I know, but I listen as her friend, no DJ's.

The reason I feel I can do this is because I am very comfortable and confident in who I am. I have a tremendous high value; I know where I am going in life, I am still, and patient. I trust the Lord, and He is preparing me for a great future - with or w/o ww.

I deeply care what happens to ww. This is the mother of my kids, I needs her healthy - spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and physically (she's always sick with colds, flu but more importantly and has lots of health issues) for the sake of my 3 little ones.

On another note. She came to my church this Easter to watch my oldest son perform in out Easter musical. She came in late during the worship service (I hear that’s normal for ww to be late). And she proceeds to come up all the way to the front row to sit right next to me (close to me). I could hear the church waiting for my response. I greeted her, and talked to her, made her feel comfortable. I felt the church follow my lead.

She said she enjoyed the service. She said she loves to hear me preach, and that I am the best young preacher around. The church members were very loving and compassionate to her (some know the whole story other think she is "not herself" and moved out)

Then late Sunday she calls and says she doing some souls searching. She says she does not want to play with my emotions, but she's thinking about coming home. She says she knows I have a long list of qualities that can make her happy, but then there are 2 or 3 things that om and her have that are making her happy. She says she misses the boys. She wants a new house (our right now is a starter home) and she wants to invite people over for company.

It was late when she called. I was half asleep. I did tell her that I understand what she is saying. I said that for her to truly come home she will have to agree to no contact with OM. I also said that we can take it slow and work on having a better relationship. She said it was late and did not want to talk that much about r and I agreed. I'm surprised she’s talking about coming home so soon (its been 3 months from start of affair, late dec 07)

I'm not sure how to take this or how to respond, except not to r so much, take it slow and to Plan A. My objective is to make love deposits and to rebuild attraction and report for the both of us (ww behavior and her new values such as drinking and cursing are very unattractive to me)

Anyways I am patient and still, and confident.

I would like to receive your replies. Please share your thoughts and contructive comments. What do you think of my new strategy How should I play the r talk? Any other advice?

Thanks!

I do not care for your new "strategy" at all. Plan B should be broken ONLY when the conditions that you spelled out in your Plan B letter are met without exception.

I have to disagree. I don't think she ever really understood Plan B. I think she saw it as her husband giving up on her forever. I think we have to be careful about that with people who are not familiar with MB concepts. Plan B can look very much like abandonment to someone who doesn't understand what it's all about. True, she left you not the other way around, but if she doesn't like to be alone then the only way she'll admit to herself she made a mistake with the OM is if she knows she can still come home.

Of course, you want to protect yourself from cake-eating, so you do want to insist she break things off with the OM. You might even suggest she do it BEFORE moving home, staying in her own place or with a girlfriend/family, that way leaving him is a separate step from coming home. (She sounds like she doesn't like being alone very much, so if she takes you up on that it won't be for long.) If she says he's not the reason she left, point out that even if that were true, you can't reconcile with him still in the picture.