I agree with Harley there. I have no problem with them being apart..having her kid go to his mom. Get therapy or some intensive counseling (hopefully with the Harley's) and THEN deciding what to do. But to talk marriage now, IMHO, would be crazy.

Both children are of legal age. She rented an apartment. I can't reach her now because she is basking in the attention he is giving her. I'm trying to come up with a plan so she knows I have made changes and our love is worth fighting for.
If we had been dating for a year, we wouldn't be having this conversation,

rok,

Welcome to MB....I'm sorry about the heartbreak that has brought you here. Marriage is so much more than the legalities and documents. It requires a level of commitment that goes beyond living together. It sounds like you are beginning to understand, but unfortunately, your understanding is coming very late and may feel manufactured to your GF. Still, a 12 relationship should respond similarly to strategies like Plan A and B if you are not ready to give up.

I've seen many people come here who have jumped into Plan B and then regretted it. That kind of reaction....get out!....is pretty normal. But if reconciliation is your goal....it's premature. When it goes on a long time....it's hard to undo. But, you can definitely go back to Plan A without too much damage right now. All it requires intially is to make contact and open the door to communication.

I do think counseling would be a good option for you....especially the Harley kind. I think they can give you the guidance, the understanding, the vocabulary to communicate to your GF that you really do grasp the importance of marriage and that you can be the husband she's always wanted.

Moving in with this guy is horrible painful....but there is a silver lining on that black cloud. It also hastens the end of an affair because it removes the drama, secrecy, mystery and often "home" becomes much more attractive.

Don't feel as though your reactions and mistakes cannot be undone. I hope you will take the time and go through the process to create a real foundation for this relationship if you intend to reconcile. The children deserve a real home that is on such shaky ground because of minimal commitment.

Good luck.

Thanks for the help. I have realized my mistakes and want to correct them. Six weeks of watching her go to him was too much to bear. How can I re-express my desire to work this out if she doesn't want to listen? How can I do this without appearing to condone her actions and begging? How can I get her out of the fantasy she is living? She has ALWAYS put the kids first, but not right now! That's how bad she has it.

Star*fish and Mel,
How would I put together an effective plan A based upon my circumstances. How do I get her communicating again?
You have been very helpful, but I haven't even received the book on surviving this yet. I need guideance.

RF, I think you need to seriously consider why you'd want your very wayward GF back in your life, particularly in a committed relationship as your W. Are you driven by a fear of being alone? I do know that was one of my fears when I allowed my wayward GF back into my life many years ago. Oh, she promised never, ever, ever to cheat on me again, and we ended up getting M'd, and guess what - she ended up cheating on me again!

Living in anxiety legally committed to someone you can't trust, someone who isn't a "buyer" is a nightmare of an existence that I wouldn't wish on anyone. Just ask yourself - after all that's happened, do you really think that you'd be able to trust her ever again?

I don't know....it sounds to me like maybe rok's GF wanted to be a buyer for years and years....and rok was the one who wanted to "rent". Now his GF wants to leave rather than "buy" and rok is have second thoughts about not committing earlier.

After raising these children, they may not be biologically his....but he's been their daddy for most of their lives and obviously close if her son is choosing to stay with him. I think they will be definitely be traumatized by this split up. They may not have been the ideal family and I'm not surprised at the events in this situation....but it's more than just a dating relationship....this is a "family" and if rok wants to try and put it back together, I can understand that.

rok, as far as what your Plan A would like....it would look like any other Plan A. For the most part....there's a standard formula: stop love busters, fill needs she will allow, confront her about how hard/painful this is, and expose to people you think might be able to help you get your GF back home.

Since you kicked her out, you will need to resume contact, and tell her that you would like to see her. Use the opportunities you do get to see her to be calm and attractive. Plan A is about showing the primary relatioship as more attractive than the affair. Sounds like this guy is showing his true colors and you might be able to that without too much trouble. Read all the stuff available here on Plan A....and keep posting.

MIM, thanks for your post.
Yes, I have thought long and hard. I have prayed and yes I believe I can trust her. I am no loger afraid of being alone as I was the first couple of weeks.

One of the things the A did for me was to make me look inward at my failure to commit fully to her. I wan that commitment. Not out of fear. Out of love. That is a huge issue for her and I didn't recognize it for that. That and the kids has been over 80% of our problems.

She told me that what she was doing was probably the biggest mistake of her life, but he was offering marriage already.

She made the choice, but I made it possible by my inaction. She is worth saving. I am trying to figure out how to bring her back and get her to realize that when she said she now had everything she wanted with me, but she didn't want it is a more attractive proposition than a man that listened to her troubles and used them to get her to bed would be.

I want to get that chance and she must know that is not done out of fear, but from growth on my part.

Star*fish,

You hit the nail on the head! She has never responded well to stick's though. She said she didn't want to throw 12 years away on the trip, but she is so "In love with him" now that all she will do is text me.

I've read plan A and I'm trying to figure out how best to implement it when I already seem to be in plan B. She will view this as me being scared now that I am alone when that isn't the case.

Sf, if the children were young I might agree with your take...since they are both over 18 I think the children being traumatized should no longer be a consideration here.

rock, i would get the book, Surviving an Affair, from this website and read that article about living together I posted. It is key that you understand the dynamics of her affair and the dynamics of living together. You can get the book at bookstores, too.

I would read up and then we can discuss sending her a LETTER. Since she won't talk to you, I would send her a letter just telling her that a) that you love her, b) are sorry for your actions that led to this state and c) your committment to making her happy in a NEW committed relationship.

I want to clarify something, rock. I am not at all saying that the goal here is solely to GET MARRIED. I am not. I think if you got married tomorrow, it would be doomed to failure. What has to happen is a change in the way you treat each other and a committment - and a PLAN - to make each other happy for life. THEN, marriage should follow once those new habits are in place.

If you read that article, you will find that some very bad traits are inherent in live in situations that make such arrangements untenable. Getting married with such traits in place only makes the situation WORSE. So please read that article, because it is applicable to your situation.

MK,
They are traumatized. They want to see us back together. They know that I want that too. I helped to create the environment to make the A possible, now I need to create the environment to bring her back to the family that until now has been so important to her.

I understand they are hurt. Every child is hurt by divorce(or something similar in this case) regardless of their age. My point is, there is, IMHO, no reason to stay together for the kids sake when they have reached adulthood.

Mel,
I have ordered the book. It just won't show up til next week. I am about to read the article about living together. I think your plan on the letter makes a lot of sense.

I also agree that marriage tomorrow is not the goal. Repairing the relationsip is with marriage as the result of the successful recoincilliation and both of us committing fully to the relationship.

MK,
I did not mean to imply staying together for the kids sake. I want us to stay together because this is a love worth saving! I think/feel she was screaming to me that she was losing faith in me and I didn't see it.
Now that I do, she needs to know and I hope my efforts will show her I am worth much more to her than him.

Mel,
This is like waking from a deep sleep! I read the article. Now I know what is meant about renting and buying.

While I do not condone her actions, maybe her though was since I made no lifetime commitment she was tired of waiting and someone "new" came along that she thinks "wrongly!" can make that commitment and fulfill her needs.

I still think there is much to be hopeful about. I need to convince her of my desire to fully commit and that it isn't out of fear of losing her to another man.

Hi Mel,

Didn't know the protocol.
I contacted a couple of her friends last night, but she already got to them first and rewrote history. She made it appear we had split up and then she started this new relationship. She told them the same stories I have read about. She's not in love with me..God wanted this to happen, etc.

I was doing ok for a couple of days, but tomorrow is her birthday and I miss her. S the A will arrive next week, but I will be on a business trip. I want to do something!

Hi Mel,

Ok, I received the book Surviving the Affair and read it cover to cover. I also read the book Affairs by Emily Brown. Additionally, I have an appointment next Thursday with Steven Harley. I am ready to discuss with you plan A.

The book, Affairs doesn't give me much hope as it describes our situation as an exit affair. Essentially saying the A is her way to create a reason to end the realtionship. But my gut says that's not the case.

Thanks in advance for your hellp!

rokkfish, I am glad you are going to consult with Steve Harley. I would let him give you a plan before you do anything. My opinion is that you should send her a letter like I mentioned before, but I would get Steve's input first. He may have a different strategy.

Thanks for reading that article about living together. It was a real eye opener to me, too. All of his points make perfect sense to me.

Mel,
Thanks. I'm looking forward to the counselling.
BTW, I texed WS saying happy birthday and she texed back
thanks.. did I leave the ring on your bed.
Should I ignore that or how to respond?