My story
My WH and I have been married for 8 years. He cheated on me two times (PA) that I know of, and several inappropriate friendships with women all through the marriage. Before we were married he promised to end all contact with "friends" who are female. Of course, he kept it up and hid the contact for years until I discovered emails and texts that were not overtly flirty, but still it made me uncomfortable that he could have these deep conversations with these women. One of the women he called his "soul-mate" because they could talk for hours, when I confronted him he said its just a figure of speech. Yeah right. My jaw hit the floor over the fact that he could lie to my face like that.

I made an appointment with Jennifer but he refused to talk to her. I can't afford to continue phone counseling when he won't speak with her. I have read all of the Harley materials and one of my closest friends and one of my sisters directed me here. I am very familiar with the fog babble and all of that, but I just don't know if it is too late for us, because I almost hate him now. He has put me through so much pain, and I sincerely do not believe that I have gotten to the bottom of all of the infidelity. I have a nagging feeling that there is probably more I am not aware of.

I have no proof that he is still in contact. I have exposed the other two affairs and he refused to send no contact letters, but he would not leave the home. We do not have kids together, but I feel like I have invested so much into this marriage, I have a hard time just walking away. Is there any hope?

I don't know if this is hopeless or not. I just can't continue like this. Our home is being foreclosed on soon and he is out of town now on a business trip. I am staying at my sisters home now until he comes back from his trip. I figure its the best time to post and ask for advice, especially since I can clear my head with him being away.

Forgavehim, I find your screen name very troubling and think that might be part of the problem. What exactly have you "forgiven" him FOR if he still cheats? He is a serial cheater who still cheats. If you have truly forgiven him, then you also have to ACCEPT him as he is.

Can you accept him as he is?

Can you accept that you cannot change him?

That all the "counselng" in the world cannot change him against his will?

Maybe I chose the wrong way to proceed. I do think you are right. Before I knew anything about marriagbuilders I forgave the other two affairs. I now know it was the wrong thing to do, because he did not even seem completely remorseful. When I would consider leaving him he would cry and he even told me he cried for 4 hours once when I left to stay with my sister for a weekend. Obviously his crying hasn't made him change but he pushed all the right buttons with me, appeared to be sorry and I gave him forgiveness. Now I realize I forgave too soon, without any action from him.
No I don't want to accept a serial cheater.
No I can't continue like this
No I can't change him and I know that that I can't control anyone but me.
Is there anything I can do? Or is this just a lost cause.
I ask because I want to know I did everything I could just so I won't have regrets. I just want to know if anyone has seen a change in a serial cheater? Or does that mean the marriage is doomed.

Well, you just said "No I can't change him" and then in the next sentence said "Is there anything I can do?" That tells me you have not accepted that you cannot change him and still operate under the illusion that there is ANYTHING you can do to change him.

And yes, a serial cheater can change. IF THEY WANT TO. Not because YOU want him to. If he tries REAL HARD and affair proofs your marriage, HE CAN CHANGE.

But, until that happens, you should accept that your H is a SERIAL CHEATER and make plans for your future accordingly.

Also, he seems to think I am treating him like a child by requiring transparency. He tells me that no one should know everything about a person. I am really worried that maybe he is a sociopath or something. What type of person says that to their wife? But then he tells me that he loves me and that I am the most important person to him. He has gone to IC in the past but I have always felt that he knows how to "play" the counselor. She even asked that he face the wall, during the sessions because she says he is too focused on "reading" her responses and it seems like he is looking for approval from her.?? I don't get it. He comes off completely loving, caring and warm in front of others but he can say the cruelest things like I don't need to know everything about him because I might not like it, and that most men aren't honest because we wives couldn't take it. He has even gone as far as to tell me that if he were transparent he could get another phone that I wouldn't know about and that he isn't going to do that so why should he be transparent. I initially thought maybe it was the "fog" because he is probably still in contact with OW. He refuses to stop working late and tells me "It's just my job and I can't change my job". I am just at the end of my rope.

I must say, besides the friendships with women, before we were married he treated me like gold. I explained that I was uncomfortable being with a man who kept innapropriate relationships going with women and he agreed to end those, but that did not happen. I am just feeling stressed out by all of this.

Before the first two affairs, he lost both his brother and his mother withing a year of each other, and he has not more immediate family alive. He had a traumatic child-hood because his mom became mentally impaired when he was young, due to a serious accident. I really love him and have taken all of this in to account about his FOO issues and his upbringing but I can't make excuses for him or become his therapist. I just can't wrap my mind around some of his behavior.

Melody,
When I asked if there is anything I can do, I am asking what can I do to implement the plans here in a way that doesn't look like I am demanding. Part of the problem is he acts resentful of me telling him what to do, I know its no excuse for his behavior, but I don't know how to proceed at even presenting that we can have a better marriage if he gives it a chance. I have read several threads here where a WH has cheated more than once, and some even say they've recovered. I am wondering how they got to that point. I know he has to get on board, but I want to make sure I have done my part in trying to save this marriage. I hope I am making some sense.
I appreciate you taking time to help, by the way.

FH, I am not sure what any of this has to do with your difficulties with his serial cheating. The problem is really YOURS and with your acceptance of him HOW HE IS. You cannot change him.

So, you must decide if you want to stay in a marriage with a serial cheater or not.

What will you do with your life?

I think you believe there are some magic words you can say and if we just give you those words, he will get in line? I do not know of any, nor do I believe there are any magic words you can say that will motivate him to change himself. I think its very unrealistic to believe you can change him.

I do not want to stay in a marriage with a serial cheater.
I also don't feel ready to divorce.
Do you think Plan B would be appropriate?

As for my life, I have entered into a program to recieve my MBA, I have a good job and I can move forward. I just want to know I gave this all I could. I have invested time, money and love in this relationship. My WH has refused to leave the home in the past whenever it comes up. I don't know why I feel like kicking him out would be cruel.

Maybe I am not communicating as clearly as I'd like. I do not think I can change him, of course everyone who comes here wants hope that their WH will change. My problem is that I haven't made a decision to divorce because I am still going round and round with giving him a chance to change.

Forgave,

You say;

""I almost hate him now. He has put me through so much pain, and I sincerely do not believe that I have gotten to the bottom of all of the infidelity. I have a nagging feeling that there is probably more I am not aware of. ""

But then,

""but I feel like I have invested so much into this marriage, I have a hard time just walking away.""

So the question is, how many more YEARS do you want to feel this way?

You know, he knows you know, he won't send NC letter and he won't leave the house.

HE DOES NOT SEEM TO GIVE A _______(fill in the blank) ABOUT YOU.

He needs a jolting wake up call, something drastic, like being served with divorce papers, to get his attention.

Listen very closely to Ms Melody, she knows of what she speaks.

She's AWESOME! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> (even though from Texas)

IMHO

kirk

Forgave,

Just because he is served with divorce papers, does not mean there will be a divorce. They do not have to be signed.

Feelings are not truth, though. Adultery is CRUEL, protecting yourself from his abuse is NOT.

FH, yes, I think you would be well advised to go into plan B but do it with a legal seperation so you are financially protected. I know you have invested time and money and love but is that a call to invest MORE in a losing proposition or LESS? If you invest in a stock and lose money do you continue to lose money, or is the answer to pull out before you lose IT ALL?

See, in your situation, you are risking your mental health. Women have nervous breakdowns from living like this. Here is what Dr. Harley said to another woman here who is married to a serial cheater:

Why would he change if he is perfectly happy with his life? You are the one with the problem, FH. He has no problem with his lifestyle.

thanks Kirk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, both of you are right. Intellectually I get it. I am a smart person. It's emotionally draining, and I can understand why a person would have a break-down under these conditions. It has not been easy. So, plan B it is. I will get my ducks in a row and file for separation. I know this will be hard and I will probably have a hard time with him because he will not want to go. Our home is being foreclosed on because he had to take a cut in pay recently and he will say he can't afford to live on his own but I have to do something. I can't stay in this situation this way. I have to secure a new place to live soon anyway, its just that he thinks we will be moving together. How do I handle that? Should I just file for separation and tell him he's out on the sidewalk now?

FH, just tell him your decision.

Once you get separated, if you really stick to plan B, you will find that your judgement and emotions won't be so impaired as they are now. You will feel a PEACE of mind you probably haven't experienced in years. You will have the clear head and mind to make the right decision for your future.

I will prepare to tell him when he returns from his business trip. He will be back on Saturday morning.
I want to work on a plan B letter as well. If anyone has an example of one that will work for my situation, I'd appreciate help with that.

I realize that most people probably don't understand why I want to stay in a marriage like this. I really had hope for a long time that he could change and even believed he wanted to change because of him not wanting to leave. My family has encouraged me to try to work it out with him because I come from a family that really believes in marriage and keeping vows. That has kept me in the marriage even though I probably should have gone to plan B long ago.

FH, I would suggest getting separated first and THEN going into Plan B when you are in a position to actually go DARK.

And yes, I do understand why you stayed in your marriage this long. You hoped that something would change. And when it didn't, you accepted the truth. No one could fault you that, FH!

Here is a Plan B letter that I really like: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897

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Thanks so much. I am going to follow the advice here. I am prepared to do what I need to do going forward. It is helping me enormously just to get a plan together so that I can clear my head and find some peace of mind.