Spoke with w today and she has now gone too far. She said her comment last week about coming home(later changed to asking if I would take her back) was just a knee jerk reaction to problem with om.<BR>I asked her if I would behearing from her lawyer this week,(she last saw him 2 weeks ago) and she siad she hadn't heard from him either so I told her i would start working on it from my end then.<BR>I just can't take anymore crap from her. She ahs made it absolutely clear that she has nothing left for me. This is not her irrational in love with om person talking but her true feelings towards me coming out. She wants to work on her problems but not for me but for the om. <BR>So I've decide to give her her wish and let her go. I see no point in having her in my life or my childrens lives anymore. All she does now is stop seems them alittle or takes them shoppping, she is acting like their grandmother. I just wish she and om would move far,far away.<BR>Maybe I should consider that !

Hey RWD,<P>That's what I am doing, and I feel better for it!! Moving far, far away that is.<P>Good luck to you!<BR>Deb

RWD,<BR>I know you are frustrated. I am in the same boat you are. My h just waltzes in and out of my life and my daughters life like a next door neighbor. I guess it is true time for you. Is saving this marriage worth all of this. Is it worth it to your children. Some people can never see the forest for the trees. The get so wrapped up in themselves and their own pain, that they can't see how selfish and hurtful they are being. The hardest thing is truly letting them go. When we can learn to accomplish that, our lived become more relaxed. Never forget that God is with you. He will never resake you.

rwd -<P>I can't blame you in the least for how you are feeling. She's made it pretty clear what she wants, and she doesn't seem to mind what she does to you in the process. She has been very selfish!! I can't believe the way she is acting with her own children! I have a male friend who is experiencing the very same thing. It's so unbelievable to me how women can leave their children. I couldn't do that. <P>Well, good luck and stay strong for you and for your children.<P>Isabelle

RWD:<BR>I'm sorry that your W is still <BR>living in her fantasy land and <BR>refuses to grab that chance at <BR>recovering her marriage with you. <BR>It sounds like you have control <BR>over your situation and have come <BR>to terms of what you need to do for <BR>yourself and your children. It's <BR>really a shame that you & your <BR>children are suffering from this.<P>How selfish your W is to throw away <BR>her family away for some OM. In <BR>the end, your W will have horrible <BR>regrets for what she has done. She <BR>will probably wake up after <BR>realizing that OM isn't as <BR>glamorous as she thought.<P>By then, you & your children may <BR>have moved on with your lives. I <BR>sincerely hope that your W wakes up <BR>before it's too late. If not, then <BR>I wish you and your children the <BR>best of luck in your new life <BR>together....

RWD:<P>For my sake, would you let me know how long this affair has been going? How long has it been "exposed"?<P>My personal opinion is that you are far from a hopeless situation. Your wife isn't expressing "true feelings": she's exhibiting the typical waffling of someone who is immersed in the fantasy of an affair. That's not going to last forever---she's going to eventually crash and burn.<P>The best thing that you can do for yourself and your children right now is to write a Plan B separation letter, give it to your wife, and then have no contact with her. It prevents her from draining your lovebank. It gives her time to see reality---a life without you and with limited access to her children. If you read "Surviving an Affair", you're going through something very similar to the first couple (John and Sue, I believe). The dynamics of an affair are pretty common---this situation isn't unique. You do have hope, and there are ways to maximize your chances for a successful reconciliation.<P>Trust me; I've been in your shoes, and I know how tough it is. And I know the feelings of hopelessness. But you do have a chance.

K,<BR>The physical affair only started in mid-May, I'm not sure how long the emotional affair went on, probably 6 months to a year.<BR>As far as the Plan B I tried that however om paid for her hotel stay, plus I'm involved with my kids so we ended up seeing alot of eack other, plus she's used to not seeing me that much anyhow so it really had no effect on her. I know that sounds like a short time and it is,even the counselor says she has never seen one move this fast, but this is what w wants and I can't stop it and now I don't want to.<BR>As for my lovebank for her it is now empty. I want her to crash and burn. The counseling and her actions show to me she never truly loved me for who I am. She was looking for happiness thru me and the kids, well she thinks she has found her happiness, so she can just go to it. I just hope she leaves us alone. She's not acting like a mother she acting like their grandmother, taking them shopping, etc, just the fun things. That will wear thin too for her and she will withdraw from that, I just hope it isn't too painful for the kids. I won't let her do that to me any longer!<BR>I agree that that couple in Surviving an Affair was my story, the problem is my w doesn't care enough about the children or have any feelings towards me at all !<p>[This message has been edited by RWD (edited August 18, 1999).]

RWD:<P>If you truly have no feelings for your wife anymore, than divorce is the right course.<P>But that means that if she came to you today, fully ready and willing to do whatever it takes for the marriage, you would need to feel nothing. No regrets. You'd have to tell her "I'm sorry, too late".<P>I don't get the sense that's where you are. You were excited just a week ago about a chance for reconciliation.<P>If I were you, I'd view my wife as mentally ill. Who cares what she wants? Don't aid and abet a sick person. If you still have love for her, or if you value your family structure, there are ways that you can handle this that aren't as final as divorce (which isn't final either, to some people).<P>What do you truly want, RWD? Is it for her to leave you and the kids alone forever? Or would you take that shot at reconciliation, if she was really going to give it a try.<P>You'll get your chance (I bet) if you hang in there---it's the most common scenario. She will crash and burn.

If you are certain, then begin the proceedings. Get as much as you can and try to get the children. They need to remain with the stable parent. Chances are she'll come around sometime in the next few months. If she doesn't then at least you'll have a start on a better tommorrow. <BR>Don't move. THe children still need their mother.<BR>Don't tell her the stipulations of the divorce. I got away with paying no allimony since she was so delusioned, that she didn't bother to read the decree to contest it.

Hi RWD -<P>Oh Boy, I knew this was coming for you. Your roller coaster was up - now it's down again......<P>I Totally agree with K!!!! It's what I've been trying to tell you but K's so much better at it than me.<P>RWD, we can tell by your writing that you want your marriage and it is the emotions and fantasy concept that you are having the most trouble with.<P>Before coming here I thought I was going insane, I knew that what my H was doing was a total disregard for me and our marriage, but I didn't realize that it is the pattern of infidelity. Once I learned that - I was able to put alot of the pieces of the puzzle together. <P>The biggest problem we betrayed have is that we take all they say and do personally. Now, ordinarily, that would be the normal, common sense way of looking at it. I mean after all the hurt and devastation slams us. We are the object of their blame so they can justify their own guilt!!<P>But - the betrayer does not think in normal terms. They are in a bubble, so to speak, and this isolates them enough to allow themselves these actions and words that devastate those around them. They don't think about it really, they just see what they need - everything else is blurry.<P>It's all part of the symptoms of this "illness" as K puts it. <P>You've been here awhile and have seen most experiencing the same kinds of actions and words that you are. Does that not show you that your wife is not unique??? The fact that it was her instinct to want to come home to you when she felt hurt, should tell you that the "real" side of her knows where she is safe... when we were children - where did we run to when we were hurting? TO someone we loved and would comfort us and keep us safe, right!!!!!<P>So, take heart in that!!! The "real" part poked it's head out!!! She's in there somewhere and it will take time for her to break free of the fantasy part.<P>I hope this helps and you know that we're here for you.<P>Hugs and Strength,<P>Sheba<p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited August 18, 1999).]

K & Sheba,<BR>I appreciate your thoughts, but I do not have any feelings left for her. I want her completely out of me and my kids lives. All she does is bob in and out and buy the kids things, we don't need another grandmother,we've got 2 already. <BR>Just as I drained her love banks, she has drained mine. As somebody said, divorce doesn't have to be final either. Let her overcome her "mental illness" and search me out.<BR>As far as family structure, I've been doing a lot of it myself for the past year, so the kids hardly even miss her(my opinion),and once school starts in 2 weeks they'll be too busy to miss her. She works afternoons and misses a majority of there things anyhow.<BR>As for last week I was wary when she came home, yes I wanted a chance at reconciliation then, but I knew there would be problems and she was unwilling to remove one major one(the job).<BR>Yes, Sheba, at first I thought my problem was unique, but quickly learned that every betrayer had pretty much the same M.O.(is there a school that teaches all this stuff?)<BR>I have and do recieve alot of support from this BB but what I also see is a lot of people hanging on for years and years. That scares me and that is not what I want and not what I want for my kids. <BR>Thats why I think a clean break is best for me.<BR>Thanks again for your imput, don't worry about offending me as I've been crushed numerous times lately from my w.<BR>Please keep responding to me !

RWD:<P>I don't agree with people hanging on for years, continuing to be miserable. That's not what marriage is about.<P>If you read the Plan A/B information, you'll see Harley recommend plan A for 3-6 months (average), followed by plan B (about 12 months), followed by divorce.<P>Based on how you feel, I don't think you'd have anything to lose by writing her a "Plan B" letter. And then no contact. If she initiates divorce proceedings, go for it. If she doesn't; would there be any advantage for you to divorce her?<P>My concerns for you are that you're just on a particularly bad section of the rollercoaster right now; and things may get better. I also always advise people to think for a week or two before deciding anything. <P>But in your case, divorce or not, you should probably not have contact with your wife. You're in my prayers, RWD.

RWD -<BR>I support you. My H put me through the emotional wringer for 7 months after his affair of 6 months was discovered in January(i want to work on the marriage, i'm moving out to be with ow, etc, ad infinitum). And I held on to hope that we could reconcile if we could just get the *&>!! OW out of our lives. But we never could (or should I say - he never would) and at some point the magic of the relationship is just gone (or the lovebank is drained dry in MB-speak). For me, when my H moved out this last time and said he wasn't coming back and wanted a divorce - that was it. Can I honestly say I have NO feeling left for my H? No - I remember the good times we shared, and there were many. But I can honestly say I have no feeling left the for the alien being that is now my H, and I have seen no signs that this alien will ever depart - or that H even wants him to.<P>Since deciding to move on, I feel much more stable, have more self-esteem - and yes, more sadness because I am accepting what I have lost. But all in all, when it is time, it's time - and only you know when you have reached your limit RWD. You will still experience a whole range of emotions, but they are yours - not a reaction to your spouse. And there is something really strengthening and liberating about that after all we have been through...<P>JMHO...good luck,<BR>Starpony

Whack --------Just sock me in the eye!!!! LOL!!! Yeah, OK --- I guess I can be classified as one of those "hanger on'rs for years!!!"<P>I, however, did not know all of this info until May - so, I'm not sure when to count it from!!!<P>Besides, maybe I'm just stupid but I am just going with what I "feel" so if/when my H divorces me - I know that I have done all and more that I can possibly do because I love him and am not able to just "stop" cuz he did. <P>Just cuz he feels differently, whether it's just for now or for always, I am not going to change my feelings and attitude to match or react to his!!! My Heart rules for me!!! My beliefs rule for me!!!! Sometimes, I wonder what is wrong with me because through these years of hell - I have never - and I swear this on my soul - had one thought of not being with him throughout this lifetime!! It's like I "know" that this is all leading to something...... I can't explain it any better.<P>The way my life is going is under the guidance of God's plan - I believe that and I have heard it over and over on these boards so I know I'm not alone in my thinking. For some reason - GOD has not chosen to harden my heart or deflect my brain from the way of thinking, learning, growing and teaching I have been exposed to on this path. <P>Everyone here probably knows by now the many times that I have wanted God to let me be free of this!!! No Dice, Sheba - See it through!!!!! That seems to be my answer from Him - so here I am!!!!<BR> <BR>Maybe it was to meet all of you!!!<P>I don't know - but someday I hope to know and understand.<P>Hugs and God be with you RWD - We've all gotta do what we "feel".....<P>Sheba