I am moving my thread into GQ2 cause it seems to get more traffic.
I have been with my husband for 7 years married for 4 of those. I recently discovered he was having an online affair for the second time. The first one I discovered before it gained momentum but the second one he was much more secretive about and it wasnt until I accidently discovered his email accounts that I found out something was up.
He has never met this person and I can see it is all a big game to her by the things she was saying in the emails.
I tried to stick it out and then I got his mobile phone bill and he had sent her 292 text messages in a month I was devestated and I moved out of the house.
He has not worked for about 5mths and I have been supporting both of us and I am still supporting both of us. He was trying to get into the police force but he got rejected on medical grounds and ever since he has sunk into a deep depression.
He is still communicating with this OW and he refuses to talk to me about the situation. We were in counselling but as soon as the counsellor tried to get into his head he said he didnt want to see me anymore and he wasnt going to anymore sessions.
For a long time I have felt our problems were all my fault. That I could have been better, done more, been stronger, etc.
I have tried to confront this other person but as she is in another state she wont answer her phone when I call. I believe she is married herself as there has been no indication of them getting together.
He keeps changing his mind he wnats it to work and then he doesnt. I think she is influencing the situation because she knows he is very vunerable right now.
Please I need advice as to how I can sort this out. I have told everyone we both know and all of his family cause he wasnt going to tell anyone what was going on.
I am getting conflicting advice..... I am getting told to cut him off completely and others are saying he is depressed and he needs you.
Any advice will help.

ATH

Welcome. I'm sorry you have to be here. But there are lots of people here who have been through what you are going through. It is a good site.

Have you read this site? The articles are very educational.

This link helps you to understand how an A should end.

How Affairs Should End

Also know that what he is feeling and doing is normal for a WS. As long as he is in contact with OW, his A has not ended. And you can't move on into R until the A is ended and NC is in place. So right now he's a cake eater.

First ?...Do you have children?
Second?...Is this the man you want to be with the rest of your life?

Do you want to try to recover your M? Let's start there.


BTW...to answer your question...he takes full blame for having an A. You are responsible for 50% of the state of your M. He owns this A. It was his bad choice. You are not to blame for that.

No we dont have children but we were trying until I discovered what he was up to..... In a way I am relieved that I didnt get pregnant cause if I had I really dont know how I would have coped???

I come from a broken home and so does he and when we discussed marriage I always made a point of telling him that for me marriage was for life and I would not put myself through divorce twice and he understood all of that. He is the love of my life. I cant imagine life without him. I want to save our marriage but I feel desperate and hopeless.

The worst part for me is I cannot move back into our house because I get sick everytime I am there just thinking that he was having this affair literally with me sitting in the next room.

I saw him last night as a friend is moving interstate and has offered me their house to live in very cheaply so I needed to discuss this with him. I told him I wanted a fresh start out of our house and I hoped he would come with me as I wanted to repair our marriage.

He made the most bizarre response of 'you cant control what I do but you can influence it'. I really have no idea what he means by that as in 7 years I have never tried to control him in fact the reason the affair began is because I have never placed restrictions on him.

I really need to speak with her but the only way I can contact her is via phone and she will not answer (she is about 4 hours by plane away from us).

I have been hiding my number from her as he gave her my number so she would know it was me calling and not answer.
I know the contact has dwindled to a bear minimum since I left the house, in some ways I wonder if he was excited by it and without me at home he has lost that???

I really want answers to my questions and he wont give them to me.

When I discovered the A he absolutely lost it and I was the one who ended up apologising - silly me I know that now.
He doesnt believe he has ahd an affair because he has never physically been with this woman but the things they have discussed are not what a couple of friends would discuss eg when I read the comment from OW to WH 'whenever I think of you making love to your wife I feel sad' it was all I could do not to throw up. I still cant believe that he was ok with her bringing me into their little fantasy, because to him they are just words and I should get over it!!!

Emotional A's are just as bad as physical ones and they are just as damaging. So what you are feeling...you should be feeling.

Instead of trying to talk to her, can you get a hold of her BH? He's the one that needs to be told of this A. Talking to the OW usually gets you nowhere. They tend to say things to hurt you worse and they will lie. Nothing good really comes from such conversations. I'd reconsider and try to find OWH's number. Check the internet on people search and such. Can you hire a PI to look this up?

Your WH is deep in the fog. He's talking out of his [censored] and so it doesn't really make alot of sense. Try not to let his words get to you. He's an alien now. Expect more of the same. Don't expect truths, only lies at this point. He's not willing to have it end. So there are plans that you can follow to help end the A.

First tool you have is exposure. You expose the A to people who have influence over him (friends, fam, etc). You tell them that you are fighting for your M and need their support. If you can contact the OWH, then you tell him ASAP

Read up on Plan A. This is where you try to meet the needs that OW is meeting. You stop the LBs (love busters...angry outbursts, selfish demands, whatever behaviors that he has complained about in the past). You become a person any man would want to be with. You work on you. And at the same time you expose and don't apologize for it. Here is a good guideline.



The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


You stay in this plan for a said amount of time. If the A does not end you go into plan B. You can read on that at your leisure. But you should read about Plan A as much as possible right now.

I know I've missed stuff and others will chime in. It's a little slow on the weekends.

Just know, this is NOT hopeless. All A's are pretty much the same. You can recover from this.

One other thing...he was angry you found out cause he is addicted at this point. He's like a crack addict and you found his pipe and are trying to take it away from him. This is how many A's are seen...as addictions. He's addicted to how he feels right now. And he can't shake it and he doesn't want it to end. But the vast majority DO end within 2 years. They usually die a natural death. When an A is broken up at its peak, there will be withdrawal that is experienced by the WS. It can last for months, but it will finally end.

This is going to be difficult. And recovery will be just as hard if not more so. So hang on and read this site as much as possible.

All I know about the OW is her first name and I have a mobile phone number (I am in Australia). I am instinctively guessing she is married or with someone cause I said to WH 'if you dont want me you have nothing keeping you here why dont you go to her?' and his response was 'that she has her own complications'....... hmmmm sounds married to me.

I have exposed him to everyone both of our families and all ofour friends that have influence over him and now he refuses to speak to any of them and he now blames me for the fact he has no one to speak to. His mum is being really odd saying things like you have done the right thing blah blah blah but then telling my sister and brotehr in law that WH tells a different story and I really need to be blamed for this....... I am very angry at her as she is the one that set the bad example to him by being married 4 times and making him think divorce and separation are ok!!!

I am somewhat in a mix of plan A & B as Iknow we should be living in the same house and being separated is teh worst thing but at this point he refuses to have me home and to be honest I dont want to go home and have to wonder every second if he is speaking to her.

I have a strategy that I would like to run through.....
The computer is in my name - Should I take it???
His mobile is in my name - Should I disconnect it???

I know if I do these things he will absolutely flip out and I fear it will make things even worse??

Good on the exposure. Normally you don't find alot of support from the WS' family. They tend to stick their heads in the sand.

As far as going home, I would, and I would make him leave if he chose to.

Yes I would take the computer and I would disconnect his phone. If you are paying the bills, then all you're doing is enabling the A. It's a good stragedy.

You are going to be met with hostility, heck he will be downright furious. Again you'll be trying to take away his crack pipe. DO NOT apologize. You stay calm, let his cruel rantings go over your head. You can tell him that you will fight for your M, whatever it takes. Your M can survive his anger (he will get over that) it will not survive a continuous A.

Keep posting so your thread stays on the first page. Others will lend a hand soon enough. I've got to head to bed.

Good luck, you have a lot of work ahead of you, but we'll be here to help.

I cant go home I absolutely hate that house. I will only make things worse if I go back to that house because I do not in any way feel comfortable there because I am always thinking it is where the affair started.

It is only his mum that is being difficult. My Brother & Sister in law cant believe what he is doing. He hasnt even told his brother yet that we are separated he only knows because I have told him.

His mum has made a couple of interesting comments like - WH tells a different story and I am to blame and regarding him not working he contributed to our savings so he can live off of them...... ummmmmm he has been unemployed for 5.5mths and now we dont have any savings left!!!!!! I know she will defend him as in some ways I wonder if she blames herself because of teh example she set??? She has been married 4 times divorced 3 times. In some ways it makes separation and divorce ok and I dont agree and I have voiced that opinion on more than one occasion. His Dad is a total jerk - wife basher, has six children to 4 different women one of whom was 16 when he got her pregnant, WH only has one full brother and over the past 7 years I have met his other brothers a handle full of times and he nor I would recognise them in the street.

I am not blameless I come from a broken marriage too but with no re-marriages and I also had a turmultuous childhood as I was sexually abused by an uncle. WH is very angry at me for not telling him about this but I was scared he would leave me or think differently of me. I am have therapy and I am recovering but now I have to deal with all of this too. He is being very selfish at the moment.

I told him yesterday that I was going to be taking this house I had been offered as I believed we needed a fresh start and I wanted him to join me there. I also made a point of reiterating that I was devoted to saving our marriage and I would do whatever was necessary to do that. He then started talking about the future (something he hasnt done for months) what we would take with us, what new stuff we could get etc etc. I made a very bold statement at this point that he would only be moving in there if certain protective measures were put into place and I left it at that....... he needs to understand there will be no computer and he will not have a phone unless I have complete access to it!!!!!! And we will be writing his 'friend' a NC letter and I will email it to her.

I know he loves me but he loves his fantasy world too. I wish he could see that I am the one paying his bills, I am the one making love to him, I am the one putting up with his terrible mood shifts. He loves his fantasy world because he is NOT in anyway accountable to her and he can speak to her when he feels like it and on his terms where with me he has no choice in the matter.

This is worst I have ever felt in my life. I didnt even feel this bad when all of the memories of my abuse came back.

I have been trying to call OW all weekend and her phone is always switched off. When I say trying I mean every hour on the hour, so if I cant get through neither can he HA HA HA!!!!!

I am wondering if maybe she has been discovered at the other end???

I spoke to him yesterday and he was really his old self. We had a long chat and it was really nice but it could be the calm before the next storm...... it is terrible that I cant even enjoy him being nice because he has made me so paranoid.

One thing I am finding really tough at the moment is how many people are telling me to walk away and give up on him. That they would never put themselves through what I am putting myself through....... you know the old story once a cheater always a cheater. I am sick of hearing that!!!! It is such a joke because until you are faced with this situation you have no idea how you will react in the face of losing the one you love.

The scariest prospect for me is because he is such a proud person he will never apologise for what he has done to me. It is so hard to stay loyal to someone who constantly says hurtful and terrible things to you.

Most of the people here could say they thought the same thing prior to their S's A. I personally thought that I would be history if my H cheated. I was wrong. Here I am.


I don't believe that and I suspect most here don't either. Most people who have an A weren't looking to have one. One thing led to another and it just happened. But now they know it was a terrible mistake and they would never do it again. It's not only painful for the BS, but it is painful in a different way for the FWS. They are remorseful and feel that they are someone they never thought they would be. Most won't make that mistake again. But it takes a FORMER WS to get to this point. They have to do alot of work to get there.

ATH,
Unless people have been through what you've been through I really don't think their advice is something you should deeply consider.

The first thing I would recommend is trying to get the OW's last name.

I'm not sure how it is for you, but in the US for about $15 you can do a reverse phone lookup. It will give you the name associated with unlisted #'s and cell phones.

Once you have that, you can find a way to get in touch with the BH, if there is one. In the US, you can send a certified letter where only the addressee can sign for it - that way you'd know it got to him. (Or if it wasn't delivered at all.)

That one little name will open up a lot of options. See what you can find out.

I do not believe in onceacheateralwaysacheater. Here is what my FWH just IM'd me:


He has been consistently showing me his love for 3 years. We are happily recovered.

ath

cut off the phone - yes

email her the no contact letter - yes

change emails - yes, and block her email!!!!!

also, you should have passwords to all of his email accounts, and full access to any cell phones he ever gets

install a keylogger on the computer he uses, and track what he does - it can lead you to her last name, and you can expose

utilize a voice-activated tape recorder in areas of your home where he is likely to go for a "private" phone call to her

voice-activated tape recorder in his car

reverse cell phone look up is available - if not, you can pay for this service for about $50 US online

figure out her last name and expose to her husband - do this and half your problem goes away fast fast fast

I have enlisted help from my sisters BF. She is about to get spammed on her phone in every way shape and form so he can find out her details by calling the number and telling her she has won a prize LOL. I knoe she wont answer a private number in case it is me calling so this way I can get the info I need even if it is a little devious <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have called one of his Aunts today and left her a msg that I want to catch up with her and have a chat as she can be very influencial...... so pray she can help.

Thanks for all the advice on here it is making me realise I am not to blame and I have to stop the A at all costs.

You can't stop the A.

You can assist the process of making continuing in the A more painful than ending the A, while simultaneously providing a safe and welcoming place for him to go.

Then he can stop the A.

Yes well this is all going to make it very hard for him to continue his A.

Thank god she is so far away as it really does make it much harder for him anyway...... I am glad I have sisters BF helping he is a real computer geek and if anyone can get the info I need its him.

Well he was working all day today and we are in the middle of a terrible heat wave over here in Australia and as he is working outside and didnt know when he was going to get home I offered to help him out by going to our place and feeding our horses. As he was out of horse feed it was easier for me to do it cause the feed store would be closed by the time he left work.

Please bear in mind this is the longest heat wave we have had on record here in Adelaide and we are talking 10 days in a row hotter than 35 degress and there is no end in sight for the next week or so.

So I figure this is a good way to show him I care and make home a nice place for him etc etc. I leave work in the stinking heat and go to the fodder store and the usual grain we get for the horses is its usual price yet there is another brand that I can get 2 bags for the price of one so considering our financial situation I opt for that idea.

On the way home I call him and tell him I have got the feed and told him what I brought well rather than thanking me for going out of my way to help him by driving across town an hour out of my way in the heat he starts going off at me for getting the wrong thing........... You know what I stopped meeting his EN and I dont deny that but the way he speaks to me is the reason why I stopped meeting them. You get to a point that you are totally sick of feeling like you never do anything right!!!!!!!!

All he had to say was 'thanks for doing that I really appreciate you helping me out but next time can you get this brand instead'.

I constantly feel like I am not good enough, I dont do anything right, I cant make a decision on my own.... he keeps saying he wants space and I need to start making decisions on my own well when I do he cracks.

I love the guy but why the ****** cant he see that he treats me like a doormat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sure, but IMO that they're not looking to have As doesn't have anything to do with the possibility of a cheater cheating again. A cheater that doesn't deal with the personal issues that led to him cheating in the first place is likely to cheat again - it's as simple as that. It's not about looking to have an A, but knowing what led to the poor choices to get involved in one, so better choices can be made in the future.

MIM

Agreed. I guess I should have made it more clear that I was referring to FWSs, ones who understand the "whys" of the A and have learned to protect their weaknesses. But I'm sure that there are some WSs out there that haven't learned these things, but have seen the damage that was done and have decided that A's are too painful. And they just won't do it again.

In any case I do not believe that once a cheater, always a cheater.

ALT


Do you know your boundaries? Have they been stated? Do you allow them to be crossed?

I for one will admit that I never had any real boundaries in place as far as my M was concerned. Or really in anything in my life. That's now changed. Having healthy boundaries may be exactly what you need to have.

If he can't see that he is treating you like a doormat, show him how you want to be treated and that you will take nothing less.

That is a massive part of the problem there have never been any boundaries in place because I have trusted him explicitly....... I never thought he would do this and he has always been so negatively outspoken about people who have affairs.

It is over between him and her. I couldnt figure out why he was so angry well now I know why. She ended the affair because she is pregnant to her husband. I am not even sure if he was aware she had a husband or if it is a story to get rid of him?????

He has been offered an excellent job in another state which will set us up for life. I have told him I want to go with him but learning to trust him again was going to be tough but I would do the best I could but he had to understand that wouldnt happen over night.

Now I am scared that he will up and go to this new job without me??