I am not sure what happened to the thread Mr. Wondering had started for me. I was typing my response but then when I went to post the thread was gone. So I will post it here.

Mr. Wondering,

So you did write to me from an offended and a sarcastic view. Thanks for confirming that. It helps me to understand where you are coming from.

When I read the following from your previous post I got the feeling that you have a good understanding of where I have come from. "the whole issue of your ages (16 year old with a 23 year old) brings so much more complexity to the situation that I can even begin to address. 2long says said something like you were young...live and learn. I just wonder if it's a whole lot more than that. Maybe it should be, you were young and ABUSED, in a sick and twisted Man-girl relationship of manipulation and control that you finally escaped from when you were 25. No wonder your ex-husband would likely show concern for your situation today...he's your father figure. It's disturbing and NOT something I blame you for ...nor am I attacking you on this issue. I hope others can assist you with this issue as it's likely relevant. Maybe as all the men in your life disappoint and hurt you...repeatedly, going forward (what this is all about) how does one in your situation come to actually respect men, albeit your own husband...which is likely an emotional need of his he'd like met???."

Throughout my life I have always been disappointed and hurt by men. I do realize that is because I set them up for failure. I treated my husband with much disrespect and that was one of our major problems. I do not do this at all anymore. He now knows that I have great respect for him. I make sure he know this everyday.

I take great offense to you saying I was a poor choice of marriage partner for my husband. I think we have both grown so much being together and have learned things about ourselves and about life that we would not have if we had not choosen each other. I think we are the best thing that ever happened to each other. And I'm confident that my husband would agree.

I think you are a man of many words, while I tend to summarize things. I want to make it clear that I value fidelity greatly and I have for many years. My husband and everyone who knows me in real life knows this.

Now onto the Follow up questions:

1. Where were your parents (particularly your Dad) when a 23 year old man was pursuing their 16 year old daughter???

My Dad was busy with his 18 year old girlfriend and my mom was busy with her boyfriend. I actually lived on my own when I was 16.

2. You said you'd never cheat again but it's kind of your turn, isn't it??? Your first husband cheated and got the Karma bus when you chaated and left him. Now, your current husband cheats on you...which kind of makes it your turn, doesn't it??? You see this cycle repeating in your life (maybe even including your and WH's parents)....who is going to stop the cycle and, more importantly, how???

I have stopped it! No karma bus around my house.

3. What's your plan???

My plan is to approach everyday as a new reason to be the best wife and mother I can. My huaband and I have been to MC and we more connected than we have ever been. We are both commited to our marriage and we both see how important it is to us.

Victoria:

I realize you weren't addressing me, but


This is what I meant by my "live and learn" comment on the removed thread. I didn't mean 2 imply that your experiences were no big deal. I did mean 2 state, however, that after so much time, that while it is very important not 2 forget our mistakes, it can be dangerous 2 dwell on them.

Learning from the past is necessary 2 avoid repeating the mistakes we made in the past.

Dwelling on those mistakes and bandying labels about in the present runs the risk of missing the lessons in the present.

best,
-ol' 2long

2long,
I completely understood what you meant by "live and learn". I tend to use few words to convey much so this is the type of communication I respond well to. Thank-you for posting to me, I feel like you understand what I am attempting to say.
Victoria

So does anyone know what happened to the original thread?

It was removed by moderators.

Please, keep this thread on topic.

Thank you.

it was closed by the moderators. Too much snippiness.

Thanks for letting me know. I didn't know they did that.

Victoria - offended, yes, apparently so. I still don't think Mr. W was being sarcastic.

I have read his posts with interest for a couple of years, and when he is sarcastic, it isn't subtle. (Sorry Mr. W, but it's true.)

FTR, I think you are doing a great job of probing your past without defensiveness, and I hope this turns out to be a beneficial journey; I think it will.

*edit*

E-mail me for an explaination Jerry.
Please keep this thread on topic.

Thank you

Victoria, your other posts reference the hurt you are still trying to deal with from the things your husband said to you in the midst of the affair.

Cruelty seems to go hand-in-glove with infidelity. Have you and your husband since discussed all the specific verbal abuses? If so, does he remember saying them and has he apologized and worked at making amends?

Is it the idea that he could be so purposely cruel that pains you or is it that the specific things said hit your personal underlying fearful places? IE.women usually don't handle insults regarding their body without becoming so sensitive to the part that a huge motivation becomes hiding it forever.

I just figured out how to quote, yeah for me!

No, we have not discussed each comment. We have discussed in MC that I am hurt by things he said. His response was that was how he felt at the time. The MC pretty much supported him and questioned me on whether I thought a persons feeling could change. This did not help me to feel any better.

I have brought up a few specific comments and he claims he doesn't remember saying them. I am intrigued that you asked if he remebered what he said. Are waywards so fogged they don't remember what they said?

You also hit another point right on target. Some of the comments were about me being overweight, I'm 5'4" and weighed 135 at my heaviest, I now weigh 118. He also complained that I no longer colored my hair blonde, I was a blonde all except the one year right before our separation. His OW is a blonde who works out everyday. He also told me my breasts needed to be made bigger, this had never been an issue for him before, he is a self-proclaimed butt man. OW had fake boobs, well being in a very insecure place I went and got fake boobs too. I don't regret the boob job and I don't mean to sound conceited, but I look probably the best I ever have. I get compliments all the time from men and women about how great I look. But the person I really want compliments from is my husband.

There were a lot more hurtful things said which had to do with my behavior, not enough sex, disrespectful to him, etc. While he and OW had sex up to 3 times a day, she laughed with him, she respected him, etc. Whatever I did wrong she did right was his opinion at that time.

Very, very often.

Hey Victoria,

Thank you for answering my questions. It's too bad the context of the exchange is lost now as I don't really think I have the energy or maybe I should say, ability, to come up with the insight needed for you and without the thread I doubt others can be of much help.

I did want to assure you my desire was to help.

Been busy all day and never got back to MB. Likely the same tomorrow. If I were you I'd find it discouraging that I stirred up all that emotion and then was unable to see it through in a timely fashion. I apologize.

You indicated that you have pondered many of the issues already so perhaps you can summarize the facts into your own post and ask your own questions of the board which will help you and your husband move from the past into the now.

Maybe even ask questions about what I meant when I asked you what your plan moving forward was and whether your answer to my question regarding "what's your plan" was sufficient. IMO, affair proofing your marriage needs to be based more on a plan with specific actions and less on intentions. Everyone here got married with the best intentions and look where we all ended up. MB IS the plan for changing your life and marriage. Fidelity is desired but never guaranteed without work. Your husband's hurtful words will be distant, albeit aweful, memories IF you and him can, from this point forward build a marriage of extra-ordinary care. You've BOTH made mistakes and his words are never going to disappear but their sting can be alleviated.

Is your husband reading here too???

It's late now and I'm going to bed.

Mr. Wondering

I am rather disappointed that the entire thread was deleted.

There are many details to my plan, but they are all based on the philosophy in my response. Here are just a few details to help you better understand that we really do have a plan in place. My husband and I start each morning together, having tea, eating breakfast, and just talking. At least once a week we have lunch together which usually turns into a long lunch with shopping or something fun. My husband comes home early from work and we have dinner as a family every night. We spend every weekend together as a family and go camping at least once a month.

I'm not sure if this is your idea of a plan, but being that just over a year ago we did nothing together as a couple or as a family and my husband would leave for work before I woke up and then come home late after spending hours at the bar. And to be honest I used to prefer when he was gone because I didn't have to hear what I had done wrong or not done to his satisfaction that day.

Now we miss each other when we are apart and are much more accepting of each others flaws. We don't judge each other or put each other down anymore. We both know what we almost lost and don't want to go through that ever again. I feel like we are both very different people now who finally get that life is not all about our needs and what we are getting out of our marriage, but rather what we can do to meet each others needs.

Also, my husband has finally embraced being a father and is really enjoying that for the first time. In the past I think he couldn't really enjoy being a father because I changed so much when I became a mom and I think he felt like he lost his wife because I was so obsessed with caring for and protecting our daughter or more correctly I should say overprotecting her. This is something I have come to understand more recently as I reflected on how much being molested as a child had impacted my life.

I could probably ramble on forever right now. I am tired. My husband was out of town last night and tonight and I don't sleep much when he is gone. Which I just realized as I typed those words that is also a big change. In the past I actually felt relieved when he was gone, because I didn't have to worry about what he was going to complain about when he came home each night. Now I look forward to his kiss when he comes home from work each day and I don't sleep good without him next to me. He texted me early this morning to tell me he didn't sleep good being away from me which made me feel good because it told me that he is as connected to me now as I am to him.

I will take your advice look further into our plan. I was thinking of scheduling a phone counseling appointment with the Harley's to discuss that and also to discuss what we can do to help me get past the hurtful words that I just can't get out of my head which include my thoughts of the OW.

I have tried a sort of experiment the past couple of days where when I start coming up with questions in my head for my husband I shut that thought process down by reminding myself that I have decided I am not going to ask him the questions so why spend another minute formulating them. It seems to be working, but it is a new thing.

I understand you are busy with work and I just wanted to say thank-you for the time you have taken to help me on my journey through recovery.