Please read signature line for details. It has been 8 months since D-Day1, with two other D-Days. I can't stop "digging" to prove the NO Contact is still good (after three D-Days). I still find:

Lots of "unavailable" phone calls to his cell phone right around the time she takes her lunch break practically every week day, right around the time she gets off, and on Thursdays when she goes to gym class. Not your usualy 1-2 min marketing "unavailable". Length 10-20 minutes of talk from "unavailable" calling him. Ironically when we were on ski vacation in Utah (weekdays), there were no "unavailable" calls to his cell phone.

I listened to his voice mails one day last week and another woman who used to work with him (not the OW) left him a 'sweet' message about "I heard you were trying to get in touch with me to have lunch or something. So give me a call and let's have lunch. Love you, Bye" When I asked him about it (as with anything else, he yells, curses, etc. and tells me how paranoid I am being) he said he never had anything more than employer/employee relationship with her. Yet he admitted she came by his office to get him to go to lunch with her the next day, and "he told he he couldn't go to lunch because he knew I wouldn't like it". I asked him why, if he knew I wouldn't like it, didn't he come home and tell me about it ..... no answer ... just more of me being a b*tch and not trusting him.

He goes to gym every M-W-F around 6:50am - this morning he "forgot" his cell phone and even though he was already in the car ready to go, he re-parked, came in, rushed upstairs to retrieve cell phone (it is only a 2-minute trip to our gym so only 4 minutes he would have had to "miss" an important call if he really needed the phone). It bugged me all day and I made a note to check the phone bill at the end of the month for any unavailable calls that might have occurred this morning. All day, it bugged me, so I called his voice mail and listened to his voice mails. At 6:53 a.m. there was a call/hang-up. He never gets calls before 8:00 whenever I am around him! (It was like he was expecting a call .... she is enroute to her work between 6:30 and 7:05 each day.)

When I confronted him about the hang-up, he denied it ever happened, although I had saved the call for him to listen to. He again says it is my paranoia and that I am psychotic and crazy (which at this point is close to true!).

I went this afternoon after discovering the hang-up to another one of his offices where I knew he would not be, and on the portable phone scrolled through the phone log, and sure enough the OW name and phone number appeared. Supposedly once I exposed the affair to the OW husband, "she" turned in that cell phone and got another one. Now, ironically, the caller id log didn't seem to work (all the dates of the calls were January), and I tried to call out and call in, and couldn't get my call to register so I had some date on my call to "figure out" when the call from OW could have been. I just could figure out how to check phone date, and log didn't appear to "update" with new information. He claimed that it is broken. Yet he still had her name in the directory on that phone.

Upon checking, the cell phone which she supposedly turned in months ago is still working, was issued by the same "location" that issued the number originally to OW, is still active, and goes to an automated voice mail system. The name to which the phone is "now" issued is "unlisted". I left a message on the phone of the nature I was looking for "OW name" and had an emergency that I needed to get in touch with her and to please call if this was not the correct number/her phone so I could start my search over to find a correct number for her. So far (hours later) no one has called me back.

Meanwhile, hubbie has demanded that I apologize to him for my bad behavior, erroneous conclusions, and - screaming - that I just need to [email]X@#$%[/email] back off.

This sounds almost to stupid to ask - do you think I am crazy, paranoid - or do you think he is still in contact with OW?

There have been a couple of times where not only is he verbally abusive, but he has been physical too - shoving me out the door, hitting and kicking me when I fell. Why do I still love this man so much??? (I am a professional working woman, successful, am told I am very pretty, 5'4" and slim, long-haired Leo ...... I don't know why I let him use me as a doormat!) I've asked him to get counseling with me (he didn't like the counselors I selected), I asked him to find one he liked, etc. He just wants "it all to be over".

I appreciate your advice. I am just so confused. My gut/heart tell me to let go and move on, but I absolutely love him so much! Is that sick or what!!!

Yes, IMO he's cheating. Either that or he has no idea how to be truly open and honest, which, as a BS, is likely one of the main things you need from him right now.

It also sounds like he's abusing you and gaslighting you, which spells bad news over all. The hitting and kicking - that suggests to me that you need to get him away from you as quickly as possible before it gets any worse.

So, sounds like Plan B time to me.

"There have been a couple of times where not only is he verbally abusive, but he has been physical too - shoving me out the door, hitting and kicking me when I fell."

You need to be away from him.

And yes, I think the affair is still going on.

There have been a couple of times where not only is he verbally abusive, but he has been physical too - shoving me out the door, hitting and kicking me when I fell. Why do I still love this man so much???

If you were not attacking him
His violence is inexcusable
And guaranteed to happen again.

You stay with him because you are attached and don't fundamentally believe that you can do better even though you obviously can.

Finally...
Based on your description...
He sounds like a total [censored].

His affair is the least of your concerns. call the police, have him arrested and file a PFA order. Call an abuse shelter and divorce this jerk off before he really hurts you permanently.

Yep, definitely still in contact.

He acts like a wayward....an abusive wayward. That's a very scary person in my book and you need to protect yourself. You ask why you stay with him when you are attractive and smart....and that's a question you really need to explore. Also, you need better "intel" so that you can stop the obsessiveness that is keeping you hoping and afraid. Get the facts and get some help for yourself. Surround yourself with a support team....clergy, counselor, family, and don't be afraid to call the police.

If he was not abusive prior to this, I personally would be optimistic about his chances of changing...once the affair is over. (Yes it is still going on.)

In the meantime, protecting yourself is of the utmost importance. Report him and let him suffer the consequences. He needs to get help for his anger first and foremost.

I would agree that Plan B is your very best option right now, both for you and for any chance your marriage may still have.

Hey lucky,
I live nearby (on the other side of the pond) If you need me to call a number from a local pay phone let me know. I am in the 727 area code so it wouldn't look too suspicious but she wouldn't think it is you because you are 813.

Sorry, I also think the affair is still active and may never have stopped. The cheating combined with both emotional and physical abuse would be a show stopper for me.

If it were me, I'd let the OW have him, he sounds like a complete jerk.

Plan B, and then plan D.

Who

Hello Everybody - First thank you all for replying to this post. Some days, no matter how hard I work at it or how much I do, it just seems hopeless.

I really appreciated hearing from others who've been where I am. H makes me feel so guilty and that the A was all my fault because I was never there, abandoned marriage, etc. (the fog). That's why it was important for me to hear from you pros so that I know I am not crazy and that there is a very good probability that he is still in contact. And that, friends, is exactly what I needed to hear. I had H move to our condo last night, and I sent the Plan B email .... so now the hard part really begins.

Suamico - thank you so much - it "feels" better knowing that someone is just over the bridge that can help .... very comforting. I'm going to carefully plan what I need to do, and do a lot more reading on Plan B, etc. I dearly love this man, and if there is a chance that he can and is willing to change, I want to pursue it. We both need to fix a lot of things, and I am working smart and hard on fixing what I did in not meeting his EN, but you guys all know it is a two-way-street and as the WH he seems unwilling or unable to change anything.

Just one other comment - upon discovery of A, I exposed to OWH, and everybody else. D-Day#2 - exposed; talked to OWH & others; D-Day#3 - exposed - talked to OWH & others. OWH asked me to let him know if I found out what phone was being used by his W; yesterday upon discovery of the call log with OW name/number, I called OWH. OW gets on phone screaming and yelling and calling me names and saying "I'm going to KILL YOU"....etc. OWH calls back and leaves voice mail telling me never, ever call again. What do you guys make of this? (She has lied so much to H, but do I need to worry about this crazy OW and 'revenge'?)

Lucky Lady

you need to get help and stay away from your H. He is a danger to you and frankly there is little hope of that changing.

What I make of it is this story is inscrutable.

There's physical abuse mentioned as an afterthought, a second OW who leaves messages with your H that end "Love you", a first OWH who wants you to stop calling, a husband who has gone to an MB weekend but who you describe as a total lout. I don't get it. It's got everything but the kitchen sink.

If this is all real there is nothing to keep you in this relationship. It's a train wreck.

What I make of the reaction of OW and OWH is that contacting them again is a total waste of time. OWH may be choosing to believe her and that, at this point is his problem.

I think staying totally dark in plan B has to involve you having no contact with the OW or her BH.

Frankly, given the OW's threat to Kill you and your WH's tendency toward physical abuse, they sound perfect for each other.

I am not trying to sound insensitive, but honestly, there are some things that I see as just too hard to fix. I don't see your WH showing any intention to change.

Who

IMO it's more likely that the OWH is choosing Appeasement and it's the OW that made the demand that she no longer try to contact him.

EveryDay, Who, Gray and MIM - thanks again. I really do appreciate and value your comments. As of last night, I am "dark" and although I've tried to remain incommunicado before, this time I mean it. I agree my situation sounds and seems hopeless. There's always more to the story as you know, but no one deserves to be treated the way he has treated me, lied, etc. We have several businesses that we run together, and we work so well in business. Many days, I think that he is only staying because financially now is not the time to sell assets, stock, our townhome project is not selling, etc., and that he just wishing I'd back off, shut up, leave it alone, so that we would get through this economic situation and then he'd sell everything and walk out with loads of money and run away with her.

But, as you've all said, it sounds like they deserve each other.

So now, all that's left to do is for me to re-read up on plan B, come up with sure fire methods for remaining dark, and whatever happens will happen. I will watch myself and be careful, and I just hope that you'll all stick with me in the coming days and keep those comments coming that will help stay on track with Plan B ... help me stay the course.

Thank you, even though the words are hard to read and the message is hard to listen to, I needed it.

Lucky Lady

MIM,



You may be right, but it sure sounds like the OWH doesn't feel that he can have any affect on stopping the continued contact.

Who

Who,

OWH never wanted to believe it in the beginning although I provided him with the emails, with the nude photos she sent my H and finally he believeed it on D-Day1. D-Day2, he denied that it could have been her "she stopped contact" he says. Emailed him the Email I found. D-Day3 - get this. I put recorders everywhere I knew he would be having phone conversations with OW, and within 4 hours got him telling her to "Call me, she's gone [from our place of business], I'm alone in the office, okay Sweetie? Love you Bye" and "I'm going to suggest strongly that [me] go out to Texas to visit grandchildren for several days so we can have some time together", with more sweet nothings said. Then he talks to her (on recording you only hear his side of conversation) about her parent meeting [teacher] and when their winter holiday break from school started. Well, OW convinced her H it was NOT her. Must have been some other teacher he was involved with, who had a parent conference on the same day/time she did and who had the same winter holiday break as her school did! HE (her H) believed it until I subsequently recorded a conversation with my WH where he openly admitted it had continued with her, used her name, etc., and I called the OW H the next day to tell him I'd gladly give him the tape if he couldn't get his W to stop the lying, stop the contact, QUIT. Well she finally fessed up it was her after lying about it for weeks and both of them trying to make it look like I was crazy.

I don't plan to contact OW, OWH, or WH again! I'm finally done and have to just stay the [dark] course.
Lucky Lady

LL,

I guess some of us are more willing to believe the worst of our WS or FWS. I like nearly everyone else here didn't believe the level of betrayal my FWH was capable of.

For me though, once the trust was violated and I knew beyond a shadow, well, I'll simply never trust him again. My attitude, whether right or wrong, is that if he gives me any reason to doubt his faithfullness again, then he better be able to prove me wrong, or he hits the curb.

Who

LL, I find it very, very hard to believe that a person who's choosing to do the things he's doing to you can also be at the same time a good business partner. I strongly suggest that you make sure that you are legally and financially protected as much as possible in any joint business that you have with him.