OK-- so, H had been talking about this "guys golf weekend" he has been wanting to take for a bit now. I held off on giving him my opinion on it for now, until it actually materialized.

So, this morning he decides to tell me that they've planned it for memorial day weekend-- In Orlando. That it will only cost $400 (not counting food and booze and parking, etc etc-- I'm sure it will cost much more). The money aspect is important because he's been spending money like it is going out of style recently and has racked up 8K worth of debt on a credit card, which I'm NOT happy about, but he seems unconcerned about and just keeps adding to it.

Well, the weekend after that he is supposed to be going to Niagra Falls for a bachelor party. Which will also probably cost another $400 ish.

So, I'm not happy about these for several reasons. A. I'm not happy about "weekends" with his immature guy friends in the first place. I don't trust him, and quite frankly, he's given me little reason to do so. He thinks I should just "automatically" trust him because he "claims" to have never done anything, and the times he HAS cheated on me "don't count" in his mind, so he shouldn't have to re-build trust with me. These weekends are going to involve heavy drinking and partying, I'm sure. And Niagra will probably also include strip clubs and gambling-- if not the Orlando weekend too. None of which I'm too happy about.

So, I'm not happy about the financial aspect OR the trip aspect. So, I tell him this, completely neutrally. That two weekends in a row is a little excessive, and that we don't really have money to be spending 1K on little weekend trips, and that I think it is unfair he's going to go and spend that much money while I sit at home bored when we are strapped financially. There wasn't any DJ at all. In fact, I even left out the parts about me not trusting him (but I'm sure he already knows that would be the truth)-- I brought up the financial aspect of it, and I brought up that that much money while I sat at home bored seemed unfair to me. And that two weekends in a row with the guys seemed excessive, so I would appreciate it if he would pick one or the other.

So, he mentioned that "I could come" on the golf weekend and then go visit a friend that I have that lives in the area. Well, when I said that would be nice, he all the sudden went back on it, and was acting like he didn't really want me there.

Then he started in on the whole "you went to Miami" (to see a friend-- TWO YEARS AGO!) and that I did a ton of damage while I was in Miami (because I called OM from there, more than I called H). So now, I guess he feels he's entitled to spend all our money on useless guys weekends.

Quite frankly, after all his lying and cheating, I don't think he's ENTITLED to EITHER weekend.

So this is how I handled this: he started in on the "you did this and that and this and that" in the past talks. And that he wanted to go because of the "timing" he wanted to be away on Memorial day. I have no idea what that means, actually. 2 years ago, I had stopped at a picnic after work for memorial day that OM was at. Other than that, I don't know what he's talking about. The picnic wasn't AT OM's house, H knew I was going... so, it wasn't anything OVERLY traumatic, he's just being melodramatic and grasping for straws.

Anyways, I just said "I told you my opinion on it, I don't have anything else to say about it. You asked for my opinion (he did) and I told you. The decisions are up to you, but I am not going to be happy if you go on both weekends. This conversation is over. How do you like your cookies? (I had mailed him cookies at his work from a local company that makes cookies that he loves). And then I said I had some stuff to do and walked away. A few minutes later he said he liked the cookies, but the tension is still there.

And literally, that was it. And yes, I am going to be be pissed beyond belief if he goes on both weekends, but I can't stop him and I'm not going to throw a hissy fit to get him not to go. I expressed my opinion. I think it is ridiculous to spend that sort of money on two "guys" weekends in a row when we are 8K in debt because of his ridiculous spending recently.

His excuse for his spending is that "he has no reason" to save for the future because he doesn't know if we have one. So he LITERALLY just racks up TONS of debt. Bought a new 2K TV. And a new stand to go with it. Our old one was fine, he just wanted a new fancy flat screen. He's complaining now he wants a new 500 dollar video game system. Was until recently complaining he wanted a new computer (his friend gave him one for free, so that worked out OK). He wants a new palm pilot or a new phone Blackberry type thing. He has this laundry list of expensive [censored] things he wants! And the list never ends-- you buy one thing, and another thing just fills its space. And anything I ever want (like going on a nice vacation this summer) gets pushed by the wayside. Oh, and I've been asking for a new front door for THREE YEARS now... you think I got one?? Um, no.

So, I started not transferring money to our joint account anymore. I have my own stockpiles. He can take himself down financially.

Question about finances in a divorce: so, the 8K HE racked up-- its on a credit card with ONLY his name on it (he doesn't WANT my name on it, and won't let me see what is on it... shady...). If we were to divorce, would that debt be MY responsibility too?? That is crap if it would be. I think he's running it up on purpose because he knows that he can, and if I leave him I have to pay half.

Tonight is "date night" that he's supposed to plan. He said there's no special time I need to be ready, and I "don't need to be dressed up". Who wants to bet that after my STELLAR ideas for date nights that took a lot of planning and work, he's just gonna take me to the local pub for burgers and beer?

So bitter right now....

TT

TT, what's going on with you?

Sigh. I started a thread over in Recovery, and got BLASTED by Lala... (you can read yourself...).

In terms of this trip... H has decided to postpone the golf trip.

Things have been going better recently. We actually had a somewhat good conversation a week ago or so, he opened up a bit.

So I guess... not really any "new" news. Same old. Things have been calm though. Still hasn't committed.

I am just sticking with status quo for right now... plan A when he's behaving 180 when he's not. Working on re-building my own life.

He's still overly emotional, living with one foot in the past and behaving however he sees fit. Have seen a few glimpses of improvement.

He's gotta make up his mind to split or to commit soon though.

I can give you my private email address if you'd like to still communicate with me (which, I would still like to hear your opinions/thoughts). I am signing off these boards for awhile-- or at least just lurking. I will be more specific with what is going on with me off the boards (long story short-- not much new). Anyways, check out the thread in the recovery boards, and you'll see why I'm leaving.

And, I'm curious how you are doing too with your recovery! You haven't updated your thread in forever.

Let me know if you want my private email. I'll post it here, then erase promptly

TT

Hey TT, quickly here, I don't disagree w/LaLa one bit. Sorry you got my attention more than you did vets, like you wanted, but I've given you opinions & suggestions & whatnot, only to watch you either ignore them or shoot them down or say your H "isn't as bad as Julie's"

So, you're a smart girl - you're educated, you're continuing your education, you're caring, you want your marriage to work...but you're convinced you deserve to be abused - and you are repeatedly abused. Clearly, there is no help that is acceptable!

FWIW, my H is still drinking too, and if given the opportunity he'd QUICKLY say he's not as bad as YOUR H. Who cares? I'M getting ME and MY KIDS better. Meantime, till my H chooses to change himself, anything he says or does is IRRELEVANT and has NO EFFECT on us!

All the best to you TT, I mean it. Hopefully you'll get thru this & be better for it, whether your marriage is dead or alive.

Julie, Lala--

All I will say is that I have talked with Jennifer-- 3x. I am currently doing what SHE HAS SUGGESTED. And she knows the "whole story". And I also know that there are several people that will not post to me publically anymore because they feel that the "focus" of my thread has been hijacked, and they don't feel like arguing with people that are steadfastly saying one thing instead of looking for progress.

As far as I know, NEITHER you (Julie) or Lala have spoken with the Harley's directly. I have. And, seeing as this is a MB board... I would think that advising to go AGAINST the Harley's really would be sort of frowned upon. I talked to Jennifer YESTERDAY last. I am quite disturbed at the way that Lala and others around here have suddenly thought that they know more from some posts here.

Truthfully, I think I've been "ignored" by some vets BECAUSE of the fact that my thread has been so horribly hijacked. Its no longer about me and my situation-- it is about 3 or 4 people that think they have it all figured out, and that's about it. Yes, I kept starting new threads because I wanted OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS too. And I seemed to get those-- and then the same 3 or 4 people would follow me to the new thread-- and lo and behold, I'd lose the "new" perspectives I had gathered-- OR those people would refuse to post to me on here, and we'd have to go "private". Which is less helpful, I think, because I end up typing the same things over and over agian to different people, rather than having it all here. Plus I like the journal aspect of having it here.

There came a point where I seriously contemplated getting a NEW name, and starting COMPLETELY OVER with my thread, I really thought the focus was that far off. But that struck me as "weird", to have to start over with a new name just to get people "unstuck".

Julie, I commend you in your efforts. I truthfully think your situation is different than mine, I really, really do. I have my reasons for that, and truthfully I don't feel the need to sit here and try to "convince" you. It appears you and several others have "made up your minds" and nothing I say will convince you otherwise. I do have respect for you, and I do wish you the best, but I will bow out of your thread also.

I am bowing out of this board. I will continue to communicate with the Harley's (Jennifer), as I feel that their opinions, in the end, are what matter. I was looking for interm support here, and to improve my own personal communication skills, and to break some of my own bad habits from the past that I have identified from this journey. It has become clear that the support I was looking for will NOT come from here.

Once I feel that I have corrected my own issues, and I have given my H sufficient time to recognize my changes and make his own-- then I will consider leaving him for good. I'm not playing mind games. This game plan has been Harley approved.

Best of luck to you Julie. And to you Lala-- I hope that you and your H continue on your path to recovery. I admire you H's efforts, and if all BS could be like yours, this board wouldn't exist. But that doesn't mean the other BS's and their responses are "wrong". Lala, you've had it easy, and you don't recognize that at all-- or you do, but you really don't know what it is like to be with a BS that doesn't just embrace all of this like W2S did-- and you seem to think they should ALL do it W2S's way. That would be great--- but it TOTALLY, COMPLETELY unreasonable to expect.

And Julie-- I never said that I didn't respect your opinions, or that I didn't appreciate your input. I don't know where you got that from. I continued to follow your thread BECAUSE of the respect I had for you.

Bowing out... a true thanks to those that have stood by me, and continue to offline.

TT

Hi TT
Can I step in and make a recommendation to you? I posted to this Board in December and got the advice to counsel with Jennifer. We have had weekly sessions with her for four months now. Since starting with her I have not posted on my thread to avoid conflicting advice. It was an old timer who suggested this and he or she was dead right.

Even if both were equally right, it is better to follow one strategy. And less confusing. So that it what I have done.

Having said this, we can learn a huge amount by reading other threads and I will be back at some stage when our counseling finishes.

Thanks LTA--

I think this will be my approach going forward. I am continuing my contact with those that want to support me between sessions with Jennifer and help me "refine" my skills and work on things-- and point out things to me that I sometimes don't recognize that I can improve on myself.

But, I think that advice that blatantly goes against the Harley's right now, is not advice that I need to be taking into consideration. Jennifer told me in my first session that plan B would be warranted, but she encouraged me, and strongly suggested (her words) that I refine my plan A, and work on some things myself that she saw that were impeding us from moving forward. I can only work on me. I'm working on those things. I've seen differences and seen improvement. Miracles?? No. But it took us 2 years to destroy this, and its going to take time to get it back.

I've talked to her since then, and she's in agreement that things are moving forward, albeit very, very slowly, but moving forward. She agrees that at some point or another, he needs to get on board, or this is never going to work, but for now, there's things I can work on myself.

Thanks for understanding, and I wish you the best. I will continue to read here-- and apply advice to my situations, and of course communicate with people privately. For now, my situation will be taken off these boards though.

TT

TT- You know nothing about me. You have no idea how difficult things are or have been for W2S and I. The very idea that you would say what you did about me "having it easy" is so uninformed, that it is laughable. But, I'm sure it was in response to the fact that you wanted sympathy rather than honesty...which is what you got from me on the recovery board. I'm sure it stung...the truth hurts. For the record, noone "has it easy" in recovery, although the suffering of a BS is much more painful. But if the FWS is completely on board, there is nothing easy about it. The only easy way out is to continue to be self-absorbed and entitled.

Nor do I feel that I have your situation all figured out. But, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that nothing will change for you if you are unwilling to do anything to change it. And if you had respect for the advice given to you or the people on this board, you would not have said what you did on the recovery board. I feel you will never really get how entitled you come across or how your mindset is much more that of a wayward (which you are) than of a BS (which you also are, but your A was the more recent in the M). I have not "followed you around" at all, and have not responded to you in a LONG time...until I read that post of yours on the recovery board. Then, it was time to speak up...for the people you disrespected and the time they gave you. They didn't have to do that, you know. Blaming others for the "demise" of your threads is very telling, IMO. Noone tells anyone else here who to post to, and I'm sure most of the people here are adults and can make up their own mind one way or the other, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

I am glad that you are counseling with Jennifer...good for you! I have not posted advice to you in a long time, but your perception is wrong about this board. Julie is one of the sweetest people here and has been through the wringer, and you have now snubbed her as well. Very sad. People here most likely stopped helping you because they became tired of being ignored and reading the same long entitled, whiny posts. You come across like "hey, I don't need you people, but keep posting to me anyways, because I deserve it!" I don't know how many people would agree that is a recipe for success, but I sure don't!

So, if you don't want to hear from me again, keep my name out of your posts, and do not make assumptions about my situation or my life. Concentrate on your own recovery.