TheRoad,

I was not exaggerating when I said we lived separate lives. There is no way H could be the father.

ccbis,

Thank you for your support. I have family and friends who are very supportive. My parents consider this baby the one bright spot in this situation and can't wait to become grandparents. I will not start divorce proceedings but I will not hamper them either.

mopey,

xOM is not a professor of business law.

Thambi,

xOM and I have no future together even with a child. It would never work. It would cause H additional pain which I have been trying to prevent very unsuccessfully. I would also be embarrassed for us to be seen in public together as a couple. I still have very strong feelings for him but it does not change our history. My goal is to have a successful co-parenting relationship should he choose to be involved.

There have been some questions about who the legal father would be. H researched this and he told me that he would be the presumed father if we are married or divorced BUT it can be rebutted with a DNA test and/or xOM acknowledging paternity. He will not be on the hook as the legal father.

Brooke, you're going to need the support and I'm glad your parents see the bright spot.

Things have progressed much too fast, hopefully they will slow down a bit and everyone can catch their breath!

What's your home situation like now and what perspectives are there? Will you stay where you are? I know your H is living somewhere else.

It must seem very dark around you right now, but I believe you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. You have the courage in you to do what's right.

Brooke,

You have presented a very challenging situation to all here and certainly to yourself. Your H cheated on you and the marriage was never recovered. You had an affair with H's best friend and the marriage was on life support. You find out you are pregnant, it is most likely NOT your H's, and the marriage is probably dead.

You have had people on here telling you what THEY would do. You have had people on here telling you that you OWE everything to poor H because you cheated with his best friend, assuming that cheating with someone else would have been better. No way.

So given you have gotten everyone elses advice with your permission I will add my advice to the list.

One, your affair was a very very bad way to deal with what you were going through in your life (including your H's affair). You need to address this and develop a much more productive way of addressing life's issues. Counseling would help here considerably.

Two, if you can speak with Autumn Day at length. I beleive she can offer you some insights that might help you adjust to what is likely to be your future after marriage. She had to face such a situation although her H did in fact forgive her. She has much to offer you.

Three, your H's "best friend" was NOT a best friend, and while you have responsibility for your affair and the aftermath, sooner or later your H is going to have to face the fact that he seems to have selected a friend with the same moral compass as he had/has. Leave it to him to sort this out. Lay down the burden of what your OM did to his "best friend". It is not yours.

Four, whatever you decide about your pregnancy, please consider that you do have a future. YOu can learn and grow from this. All is not lost if you face this challenge in your life. You have in fact learned something and used what you learned, honesty was/is/always will be the best policy. A previous poster pointed out to you that very thing. Believe it.

Five, while you grieve the loss of your marriage, I think you have learned some very important things about the people you have been surrounding yourself with. To my mind, one of the top things is that they have not been good for you or your life. All of you are going to pick up the tab for this one. But only those (I hope it is at least you) that change their ways, grow, learn, and become people with good boundaries will ultimately find happiness and respect. My advice, pick better friends, pick a better spouse, and finally be a better spouse and friend.

Brooke, your situation sadly is not unique. Your future is still yours to make. Work on doing a good job of making your future something that you are proud of and that you and your family will respect.

Finally, do not let your H run over you in the divorce proceedings. He does not deserve to be taken advantage of in court, but he does not deserve to be given any gifts either.

I hope something I have said is of use to you.

Hang in there,

JL

Thambi,


Please understand that Brooke at this point is still at the point where the fog has not yet cleared. It would have been wrong for her to be anything less than truthful with him. Many BS here have had to deal with lengthly on-going affairs where their WS completely believed that the OP was their soulmate. However, once the affair ended, they were still able to recover their marriages.

I can think of at least one BW here, sorry but I can't remember her user name, where her WH fathered more than one child with the OW and ultimately, she and her then FWH adopted the children.

Nothing is ever completely hopeless. While I agree that the chances of Brooke and her BH/WH recovering their marriage are very small, they are in no way completely impossible.

As far as even jokingly suggesting that Brooke possibly consider a relationship with the OM, well that kind of confirms that you aren't very familiar with MB principles at all.

Who

I don't know about links (since the MB board reformatted) but I personally know of one situation personally that was worse than this where BH murdered OM and BH and WW reconciled.

As far as similiar circumstances, before the board overhaul you could read stories in the Pregnancy/Child Forum that told of similiar situations and recovery.

"MEDC- geez, her husband had an affair too- she was trying to work it out. Why are you saying her affair was worse? So what it was his best friend- I didn't think there were "degrees" of badness in affairs...

I think it's ironic her husband's outrage- like he was so lily white...she can forgive but he shouldn't even try???

HTH"

Actually, she admitted from the beginning of her posting here that although she did not divorce her husband for cheating on her, she refused to work on the marriage herself and didn't really allow her husband to feel forgiven. And this was not merely an initial reaction to her husband's adultery either, from which she eventually cooled down, forgave her husband, and joined his efforts to repair the marriage. Her husband is still reeling from being betrayed by his wife, his best friend, AND from years of enduring his wife's unforgiveness, her refusal to give him credit for the work he did to repair the damage caused by his past adulteries, let alone join him in the recovery efforts.

IMHO this was a revenge adultery. The consoling each other about the death of the OM's sister was the justification they used to give themselves permission and/or the foolish mistake they made to put themselves at risk... but it was still the lack of forgiveness which led to the revenge adultery.

Of course she did not have to forgive him or stay married to him. And it is not easy and sometimes not even possible for the betrayed to forgive. The betrayers are not entitled to expect forgiveness from the betrayed. I can certainly understand how sometimes the betrayed really does want to forgive but the betrayer's lack of remorse or unwillingness to make ammends prevents recovery. But sometimes (less often) the betrayer does show remorse and does the needed work but the betrayed chooses revenge instead of forgiveness.

I don't remember her saying anything about her husband excusing his own adultery or pretending that he was 'lily white'. According to her he did try to repair the harm he caused but she did not forgive him. It was her refusal to forgive, and now the revelation that she is not so 'lily white' herself, that is probably behind a lot of her husband's current anger.

I'm not in any way trying to take any credit away from Brooke. She did the right thing to confess. (The fact that her husband is having such a hard time processing this revelation of betrayal in no way would have justified the betrayal being continued even longer BTW. Brooke seems capable and willing to accept that so the criticisms that she should have stalled confessing even longer are pretty lame IMHO. Her husband's reaction would have been even worse the longer the betrayal went on.)

Brooke - I think you showed integrity and courage to confess.
Your husband's reaction is quite understandable and normal. You have given him a lot to process and maybe someday he will be able to forgive you.

But IMHO you have no right to stall a divorce. You had the right to divorce him without delay when you learned of his adulteries or to choose to stay married, work on the marriage, and forgive him.

Whether or not to forgive and whether or not to stay married are two separate decisions. The betrayed can choose to:

forgive and stay married
forgive but divorce
not forgive and divorce
not forgive but stay married

Apparently you chose to stay married but not to fogive. That was vengence, correct? IMHO your husband is partly angry over all the effort he put into recovery while you withheld forgiveness. His current vengefulness is an echo of, and an understandable reaction to, your own choice of revenge over forgiveness. His behavior is more an indicator of how cruelly vengeful you've been than of him supposedly being unusually cruel. He is reeling over the hypocrasy and injustice as well as the betrayals. I believe you are doing the honorable thing Brooke in acknowledging this. You don't seem to be here seeking 'support' or justification for what you've done and that is most admirable (and refreshing).

Take care of yourself. Keep going to counseling. Keep taking responsibility, apologizing, and making whatever ammends possible.

great post MM.

Separate lives? I thought you were married and living together.
Was there no SF between BH and you? For how long and was BH o'k with going without SF? How were your feelings on having a dry spell with your BH?

Thambi -

The opinion/advice you give only makes sense if you know nothing whatsoever about the fog of infidelity:

"If Brooke is thinking about Jason at all, she should get divorced. If she's not 100% committed to her marriage, she should get divorced.
If she isn't capable of loving her husband, and ONLY her husband completely with NC w/any other men, then she should get divorced."

ALL fogged adulterers will tell you that they are thinking about their adultery partner, that they don't feel 100% committed to their marriage, that they don't believe they are capable of ever loving their betrayed spouse again, ONLY their betrayed spouse, and that they can't/won't go completely NC with the OP.

It's just fog-babble and should never be taken seriously. It takes at least 3 weeks to 6 months of no contact to defog. Making an important decision like divorce while still in some fog is very bad advice.

And Brooke doesn't seme to be here seeking justification to continue or restart the adultery anyway so any such 'support' or encouragement for resuming the adultery makes even less sense.

Of course her betrayed husband has every right to divorce, quickly even, if he chooses to... but if she still has ANY desire to save her marriage she should not initiate a divorce herself. And she doesn't really have any moral grounds for divorce anyway.

The suggestion that she restart the adultery, as if that could possibly be a good option, IMHO does not even belong at MB's.
Not only is it in direct conflict with MB principles, it is highly offensive and hurtful to betrayed spouses to read such pro-adultery suggestions here.

Great post, JL. (as usual!)

Brooke,

It's hard to see the situation you are in and not sympathize with you. The odds are not in your favor - but yes, there have been many others who have returned with a marriage from similar situations. There is one such marriage in my own extended family.

It does happen. But it takes both partners wanting the marriage, and both working for it. Maybe your husband will make a change for that, maybe he won't. In the final analysis, it is his decision, and you are right to recognize that.

I have to say this about Brooke - you came here and asked what the morally correct thing to do would be. You knew what it would be, that it would be hard, and you listened. You then did the RIGHT thing, in spite of it being the very thing that would be the most difficult and disruptive thing for yourself.

Now, you see that your husband has the right to divorce you, even though you know that it will hurt you in the end. Again, you see the situation for what it is, and you accept it.

You are out of the selfish cycle in your own life, to be sure, Brooke. You are in a new place - not in the same place you were in when you were having the affair. You are clearly on a path to do the right thing.

The child you are carrying has a good mother in you, Brooke. She (he?) will have have someone who no longer focuses on ME ME ME and what "feels good". Nope. This Brooke focuses on what the real situation is, asks others what the RIGHT thing to do is,

and DOES IT.

Even when it is hard
even when it is unpopular
even when it might require personal sacrifice


Now............


These lessons could have been learned in an easier way, true enough.

But you have learned them.


And I think I see you living them - your posts show you moving in the right direction, away from selfish affair-minded life, and toward

I guess we don't quite know yet!

But I think it is toward something better. It must be better, because your mind and decisions look better, at least on cyber-paper.

You hang in there, Brooke.
Your parents sound like keepers. And your baby, she (he?) is a keeper, too. You yourself are working into being a keeper, because you are a quick study of the lessons of this life.

Good luck.
Schoolbus

ccbis,

I have a very strong support network. As for the house situation H told me he does not want it. As time goes by I don't want to stay here either. My parents have been encouraging me to move back home. I don't think that is the right option for me. I have never truly been on my own or lived by myself. I will probably end up buying a house close to them after the divorce is finalized.

TheRoad,

After I found out about his affair it was very hard for me to be intimate with him. I am not saying I have not had sex with H at all in the last 2 years but it was very rare. We really have lived very separate disfunctional lives. This was very difficult for H and we argued about it. I guess he viewed it as a long term punishment from me bec of his affair. To me I think it was a mental thing because I had such a difficult time being intimate with someone who I did not trust. I know that sounds very hypocritical coming from me but that was how I felt.

The reason I am certain H cannot be the father is the last time we had sex was in December of 07. I conceived in Feb 08. It's not possible for him to be the father.

MM,

I don't believe I had a revenge affair. That might be hard to comprehend but it really wasn't. I have had a lot of time to think about that one. If I wanted a revenge affair I would have done it way back when. I have a hard time saying this because it sounds like I am not taking responsibility and making excuses but when xOM and I got involved we were at the lowest points in our lives. I am not pleading insanity but I don't believe we would have gotten involved like that if we were not at such a low point. I was more devastated by her death than by H's affair. He was still alive and I would NEVER see her again.

I never viewed xOM as anything more than a friend until we started spending all our time together. I did not say to myself oh now is my chance to finally get my revenge when I realized xOM's feelings changed for me. My affair happened because I was weak, selfish and chose not to deal with my problems. Revenge had nothing to do with it.

Brooke,

I have to tell you that you seem like you are going to be fine. Obviously divorce and some rough times are ahead of you...but I get the impression that you have learned a lot and will come out of this mess battered but not beaten.

I wish you the best.

MEDC

Let me toss my spanner in the works if you will.

Is her husband even allowed to get a divorce while she is pregnant? I believe that is part of the filing, a statement of being pregnant or not.

If she is pregnant, it may make it difficult, if not impossible for him to seek a divorce if he wants one.

At the very least, he may be required to prove that he is not the father of the child.

It is indeed a messy situation.

It's good to hear from you Brooke.

I think you are making the right decisions.

I also think you can see quite clearly what happened and you have learned from the experience. The road ahead won't be easy, but I trust you will walk it successfully.

That's true in Texas. There can be no pregnancy at the time of filing (at least that's the way it used to be).

One of the best things in a crisis is when you do not have to make a decision today. Nine months of reflecting will move things forward.

No reason to move today, divorce today. Just keep yourself healthy and try to heal. You and your husband never allowed yourselves to heal from two years ago.

Tell your husband that: we never went about healing ourselves. We need to take the time to do this. We both stayed mad at each other.

You can not heal living apart.

Update? How are things?

ccbis,

For an update. H has filed for a divorce on grounds of incompatibility. That one word really sums up the marriage. I guess it's better than being divorced on grounds of adultary (my state does not have that option). Seeing those papers in black and white it really stung. H vs. Brooke. We're on opposite sides. We are really getting divorced. I thought I prepared myself but I guess you never really can in a situation like this. My lawyers assistant emailed me and told me I needed to make an appt to come in. He was nice about it and had me served at home and not at work like I did to him our first go around.

I was finally able to tell xOM about my pregnancy. He was out of the country when all this went down. My first plan was to tell him right after I told H but then I lost all desire too. I decided it would be best to wait until he got back. So anyway he now knows. I expected a whole bunch of drama and maybe a bad reaction (he does not like or want children) but he took it better than I expected. We went over a lot of different things but I guess the most important one where H is concerned J said he will acknowledge paternity. This will save H a lot of trouble in the long run.

There was some question if I could get divorced while being pregnant. In my state I can get divorced.

Thanks Brooke. I really think a lot of you and your situation. It seems sort of unreal to me, and I guess you might feel like it's all a bad dream, but unfortunately it's real.
The filing for divorce was predictable. It may serve as a way to untangle you two and who knows how you will feel when you are untangled.

I often wish my WH filed. He's been living with OW for 3+ years now, but I also know that once he does, it will be shocking too, even though I practically haven't seen him during this period.
It hasn't really gotten easier in that sense. There is no closure, it's like a suspended movie.

It's good that J has acknowledged paternity. I hope you'll let me know every now and then how you are doing, and how the baby is doing.

Do you read much on MB? or do you feel that you don't find much here for you?
You don't actually have to answer these questions of you don't feel like it. I will understand.

ccbis,

I can keep you updated. I no longer read here like I use too since I have accepted my marriage is over. There are a couple of stories like not2fun and refugemb that have caught my attention and I come back to read what is going on. I have read many threads on the pregnancy child forum and I will be honest I found it very hard to read after a while. It really made me see what H would have to endure if we stayed together. Very eye opening.

I am curious about you. Are you in plan B? Do you want your H back at this point? If it's too personal you don't have to answer.