I am not even sure where to start. I have been married for almost 10 years. Somewhere around year 8 the marriage went south. I found out about an affair my husband was having. I threw him out, he begged to come back yadda yadda. I let him move back one month later.

Shortly after I let him move back in I find out that he still with OW. Kicked him out again and filed for divorce. So anyway he again begs and pleads for me to take him back. After he severed ties with the company OW worked for I agreed to give him another chance. I am leaving out a lot but by this time I was exhausted and really had nothing to give rebuilding wise.

We attended counseling and went through the motions. I never really fully committed to counseling bec I was just waiting for him to mess up again.

We have not been close for a very long time and I told H not to expect anything out of me after I took him back this last time. For the most part we live separate lives. H has tried to make the marriage work but my heart was just not in it.

I believe I put the final nail on the coffin to my marriage when I began an affair of my own. It started Oct 07 and lasted until February 10 when we ended it for good. I am really on the fence about what I should do. File for divorce and move on with my life seems like the easiest option. Or I can confess my affair and see if my H is willing to try and salvage the marriage or end up divorced.

I really don't think my H can forgive me because I did not have an affair with just anyone. It was his best friend since childhood. I mean honestly how do you forgive something like that? I am not even sure it is possible.

I am tormented by guilt. My brother told me that I would be crazy to confess and that I should file for a divorce and move on. He told me if I wanted to stay in the marriage and I felt I had to confess my infidelity to make up a story about a one night stand but I must never tell him it was with his best friend.

I don't want to tell him at all. Divorce does seem like the easiest and less painful option but we have such a long history together. It was not all bad. If I don't factor in his affair he has been a decent husband.

My xOM begged me not to tell either. He says it will ruin both our lives and hurt too many people. We both feel terrible for our affair.

Do you think the marriage can work if I don't confess the affair or should I just pack it in?

Hi Brooke and welcome to MB!

I'm sorry to hear about your trials...like most of us, there's plenty of guilt to go around...



The question I'd ask you is who are you protecting and why?

I firmly believe, and I'm thinking others will jump in here too, is that your WH, STBXWH, or whatever you consider him, deserves to know the truth about his life, and keeping such a fundamental betrayal a secret is just plain wrong...

As for the "do I stay or do I go"... that's up to you.

It doesn't sound as though your marriage was truly bad, but that you have had many of the same serious problems that countless others have had and have either worked through to create great marriages, or gave up on and moved on...sometimes to repeat the same mistakes a second, third, or more times...

What's the downside of putting the excellent MB principles to work and giving it an honest shot?

I wish you luck, and I'm sure others will be chiming in soon!

L2F

The person who would be hurt the most by this....my H and his best friend. I know that sounds ridiclous after what we did. They grew up together. Their parents have been best friends for years. He was the best man at our wedding. When I think of what would happen if he found out....the consequences would be dire.

Hi Brooke,

If you want to rebuild the M with your H, I strongly recommend telling him.

You can't rebuild your M on lies.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Brooke, I think you need to repeat that line over and over again, until it registers.

Here's the reality that you have to accept:

(1) Your H's BF is no longer his BF. A true BF would not choose to hurt a man in the worst way possible - sleeping with his wife.

(2) You chose to break your vows to your H. He needs to know that this happened and why, so he can make decisions about your future together based on the truth, not on lies.


It is quite possible that your A might have brought your M to an end. It's also quite possible that your A might make your H realize that a lot more effort will have to be put into recovering your M.

In any case, he needs to know the truth.

He has already been betrayed and hurt. He just hasn't been informed.

The only people who are being protected by keeping this secret are the betrayers.

Hi Brooke,

Just thought I'd chime in here....as a FWS who confessed her A.

I was terrified to confess my A. OM and I had agreed to stop the A, and I did question whether it would be best to keep it secret, or whether I should take the chance and tell H.

The answer that I came up with was the only thing that made sense to me at the time. 'The only way I could give my H back any of the respect I had taken from him by having an A was to confess to him.'

You see, it's about giving up control. Letting God take your life and your M where it will. In this case, also where he will take your H and his friendship with OM.

If you divorce your H and leave, then you will carry the guilt and shame with you. That will affect whatever relationships you have in the future.

What are YOU afraid of if you confess. Hurting your H? Well, someone said it earlier. You've already hurt him, he just doesn't know it. It will hurt him equally (if not more - trust me - I got D) if you divorce him and leave.

Are you afraid of hurting OM and H's friendship? You've already hurt it, he just doesn't know. And don't you think your M takes priority over a false friendship?

Are you afraid of having to see the ugliness of what your A has done? (this is the REAL reason most of us FWS's don't want to tell) The problem with this is that you already see it, know it, and feel it inside. It's just that sometimes you can suppress it better than others.

For me, confession was the only way. It was the one chance for the truth to come out. My chance to stop trying to be perfect. The chance to give my H back ownership of his feelings, his life, and his respect.

So I picked a day....picked a time....and practiced the 4 words which would change my life forever...."I had an affair"

It wasn't pretty. But in the end (even with the divorce), we both agreed that it was a blessing in disguise. He said he never would have changed had I not told him. He said that he never would have admitted to the weaknesses in our M had I not told him. In a very awkward way, it ended up being a positive experience for both of us. Not that I don't still carry a HUGE amount of remorse for what I did. But confessing allowed me the freedom to work on myself, and learn how to be a better wife.

It's your choice. But I know what it's like to stand in the shower and sob uncontrolably because the secret is eating you from the inside out. All the respect, love, and truth that you have taken away from your M. All the respect, love, and truth that you have taken away from your H. All the respect, love, and truth that you have taken away from yourself.

I wish you good luck whatever choice you make. It's not an easy decision - but it is one that will define who you really are for the rest of your life.

Your H *IS* being hurt, and he is being hurt by his ENEMY. [BF] Your adultery partner is not being hurt, he is causing the hurt. This man is not your H's "best friend" he is his MORTAL ENEMY. This man is a deciever and a FRAUD and your H needs to know the truth so he can protect himself from him. To not tell him is CRUEL and MANIPULATIVE and DANGEROUS.

Your H would not have this ENEMY as a "friend" if he knew the truth. He is being manipulated into staying in a marriage and a friendship BASED ON A LIE. Y'all are treating him like a PET by denying him the necessary facts to make decisions about his OWN LIFE.

I would add that y'all are the LEAST qualified to make decisions about what is in your H's best interest. The LEAST qualifed. He is the ONLY one here who is qualified.

"What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

Consequences.

No escaping them.

All actions have consequences.

Truth WILL out.

You were "entitled" to an affair since he had one.

You were "entitled" to the truth about your husband's affair.

He is "entitled" to the truth.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

UNLESS you have solid reason to believe your husband would harm you physically, withholding knowledge of the cancer in the body of your marriage is "unwise" and only delaying the inevitable.

Do you have kids?

Is OM ("best friend" "worst nightmare") also married?

Have you gotten STD tested?

Hi Brooke,

Not sure if it's been mentioned to you yet, but the inner secret will eat away at you like it has many others before you, often leading to a nervous breakdown or even worse.

There is a Success Stories thread attached to my sig line.....couples who have successfully recovered their marriges and have overcome similar situations to yours. Check out how Mrs. RIF held her A secret (9 affairs) for over 10 years until she had a breakdown. And Lifechoice (as well as her H Docp) share their story about how she had an A with his former very close friend and LC tried to take it to the grave....she almost succeeded prematurely when she, too had a nervous breakdown over a year later.

My own H had an EA he tried to hide for 6 years....and finally confessed it to me after he had his second A that ended over a year ago. It ate him alive, too and nearly killed our marriage.

Please know that choosing to hide it is like deciding to die a very slow excrutiatingly painful inner death. And when it becomes evident on the outside, the truth will be that much more painful for those you've chosen to betray again and again and again as the days, weeks, months (even years) go by.

You can avoid all of that, own the pain, and begin to heal immediately through confession.

It's up to you, but I'm glad you've come to this support group as we'll all be here to help you through it.

Ace

Brooke, Of course your H needs to know the truth. I think your choice of an affair partner was an intentional act to hurt your H. Having an affair is bad enough...the fact that you CHOSE to do it with his best friend (who I pray is not married so that your game doesn't ruin another family) is just twisting the knife.
Your H had affairs. You had a right to leave him afterwards. You decided to stay. And then you decide to screw his bf. Your H and the OM's wife need to know what happened. They deserve nothing less than the truth.

You got great advice from MelodyLane.

He is not your BH's friend.

Was the OM having SF with you respectful towards your BH?

Is it respectful to let the OM get away with "murder" by having an affair with his best friends wife and letting him act as nothing happen? With no consequences?

Is it respectful to let your BH be kept in the dark and an object of potential ridicule?

How are you going to maintain NC without telling your BH?

How will you tell BH can not go out as couples with the OM any more?

How are you going to explain that you do not want the OM to come over to celebrate BH's birthday?

How will tell BH why you can not go to BH's parents barbecue because they have invited the OM to be there?

How would inlaws feel that they were still treating the OM as family after this all went down?

The truth will set you free because it will solve all these problems.

It will hurt your husband to find out. But by exposing and showing remorse instead of getting exposed later will greatly improve your chance of recovering your marriage.

Making your BH aware of the affair and OM/BF will be the first step in showing respect to you BH. You were the one that cared enough to apologize and warn BH that he can not trust the OM ex BF.

Telling your BH will give BH the knowledge to protect his wife and family.

The only one that you are protecting by keeping this secret is you and the OM. Make no mistake, this guy is NOT your husband's friend. Your husband deserves to know the truth even if the marriage ends. How would you feel if your husband had an affair with your best friend and they didn't tell you? You would be going on with your life confiding in your "friend" not knowing what she has done to you. That is so unfair.

Pepperband,

I don't have any children. xOM has never been married and has no children. No I have not gotten STD tested.

There is a major concensus that I should tell him. The thought of telling him makes me feel physically sick. If it had been anyone but his best friend I would have probably confessed a long time ago.

Melody,

All those names you called xOM applies to me as well. Which is why I think my brothers advice would be best for everyone. Something keeps holding me back from ending the marriage though. I know if I stay married he will have to know the truth. I can't believe I got myself in this position.

Because it was with his best friend makes it even more important to tell him. He was betrayed by 2 people close to him. He has to know. When you tell him DO NOT warn the OM. Tell your DH and offer to write a NC letter to send to OM. I repeat, DO NOT WARN OM! He will try to talk you out of it. Tell your DH as soon as possible. The longer you wait the more time he will feel he has been living a lie.

So your H doesn't have the right to know the truth about his life?


Actually, he should know either way. By not telling the only people you are protecting is yourself and the OM. You can argue that point all you want...but I've been there and as much as I thought not telling my H was to protect him...the first person I was protecting was myself. You think it will be easier facing yourself if you don't have to face the person you wronged too, but that's not how it works. You falsely "protect" yourself while continuing to disrespect and betray your H. And what do you end up with...nothing.

Tell him the truth...he deserves to be the one making decisions about his life...not you and not the xBF.

Brooke, your brothers advice is evil. Keeping anyone in the dark about harm that has been done to them is wrong. If you fail to tell your H the truth you are choosing to be a bad person. You made a mistake...own up to it and move forward. Every single day that you choose to keep your H in the dark is another crime against him. Every day is another day that you are choosing to be a bad person. Turn from these ways and make decisions that are rooted in truth and character.

Brooke,

I know that right now you probably see no way out of this. But there is a way. Lies and deceit will get you more lies and more deceit until you cannot bare who you are anymore. The lies will kill your soul.

But the truth...it WILL set you free...no matter what comes out of it. You see, your lies have bound you in chains. You are in a lose/lose situation as long as you continue the lie. Your marriage will eventually be destroyed by the secret you hold. You cannot keep this secret AND create a loving, intimate marriage. You cannot keep this secret and walk away from this marriage without causing destruction. You are a fool if you think you can create more lies about why you are leaving your husband and he not see through it. Any lie you tell will make no sense to him. You see, BS's have missing pieces to the puzzzle of their lives. We can tell which pieces don't fit. Even when they "seem" to fit, we know they don't.

Your only solution is to tell the truth and begin to commit to being honest and open. Perhaps your husband will leave you. I think the odds of that are higher if you try to keep this lie going because you will continue to build walls to protect the secret. Eventually, anything resembling a mariage will be destroyed.

The only hope for your marriage is the truth. The only hope for you is to become honest.

Your husband is NOT being protected by your lying. Your husband has already been betrayed, he just doesn't know it yet. But he will sense it over time, you cannot hide this.

Also, how do you think your husband will feel when the secret comes out (because eventually it will), and YOU were not the one to come to him and be honest.

And NO this friend is NOT a friend. He is your husband's worst enemy.

And yes, all those harsh names could be said about you, too. Will you let those words define you, or are you willing to be something better?

Right now is your moment of truth.

THIS cannot be said enough.

STOP protecting YOURSELF and the OM. How selfish of you.

RESPECT your husband and TELL HIM THE TRUTH.

It is the ONLY way to start redeeming yourself.

Tell him TODAY so your husband doesn't have to feel the pain of MORE LIES and more BETRAYAL.

I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. I will be honest and say as of right now I don't have it in me to tell my H about my affair with his best friend. I know I can't waffle forever. I just want to do what is right for everyone especially H. I have trouble wrapping my mind around what is the point of telling him if our marriage ends. I know he was betrayed but what would be the point? The betrayal could scar him forever not to mention what it would do to H and OM parents and all our mutual friends.

That is something you should have chosen to think of much sooner than this.

The damage is already done. You will not be able to reclaim yourself as a good person until you have brought this out into the open.

I hope you listen to the advice you've been given - it is the best possible way to go.

Brooke, your H will eventually find out. Mine did nearly 8 years after I perpetrated the betrayal on him. He was more angry about the lies than about the A. Imagine what a fool he will feel like down the road when he finds out the truth about his "best friend" and his xwife. Sweetie, I KNOW how hard it is. I KNOW how much easier it seems to continue the lie, M or no M. I can tell you that it ate at my soul and damaged me in ways that you cannot begin to imagine. Wouldn't you rather be the honorable one and tell him the truth?

So if your best friend had an affair with your husband it would be ok for you NOT to know and just go on being best friends? If you didn't know they had sex behind your back she is being a friend by not telling you about it? Does this really make sense to you? The point of telling him is honesty. Are you a woman of honor? Not right now. You can wrap your excuses in the most beautiful wrapping paper but it is still a pile of s*#t. Sorry to be so harsh but you are being so selfish it is mind-boggling to me. You claim to not want to hurt those around you including OM's family. You already have and you continue to every day you keep this secret. As for your brother's advice, he is biased because you are his sister. I am sure one of you BH's siblings would tell you something completely different. There are people here who HAVE been in your position and even they are telling you to tell the truth. Listen to them! Read some of the posts here until it sinks in. If you REALLY want to do what is best for your husband keep reading here. Read the stories about people who find out years later. You never know, if you do end the marriage OM may have a moment of guilt and tell him anyways. He also may have told someone else and your BH could find out that way.

Brooke,

Turn the situation around and think when your H was having the A it was WITH YOUR BEST FRIEND!

BUT...you never found out who the OW was.

Would you want to continue socializing with your best friend and telling her your deepest secrets and loving and trusting your best friend...even though YOU WOULD NEVER FIND OUT?

This best friend of your H's sound like a spineless little weasel, who is looking out for his own skin.

You gotta tell him and let the chips fall where they may. It will unburden you and, I hate to say this, but let him know what it feels like to be on the other side, except for him it will be a double whammy.

IMHO

kirk

Brooke, you want to treat your H like a fool and a pet...no one here can stop you (I would if I could). But I tell you that you will deserve every horrible thing that happens as a result of this betrayal...every single one.

You are making an educated decision to harm your H. For that, there is no forgiveness. What's the point? Duh? Are you really that clueless??? He has a RIGHT TO KNOW.

Brooke,

*** edited for TOS violation---harassment***

You can say that you're protecting them, but you are NOT. You are protecting YOURSELF and everyone here knows that.

*** edited for TOS violation---harassment***

Speaking as a BH, if you want to do what is right for your BH, you absolutely must tell him. I understand the the line of reasoning that 'what he doesn't know won't hurt him' and that you're shielding him from further pain by not telling, BUT those things are actually not true. It is actually the lies and betrayal that are more devastating for a BS than the infidelity. And the longer it has gone on, the worse that it is. The longer you wait to tell him, the worse it will be for him.

The point is that it is actually easier to heal from a wound when you know about it. Otherwise it is a hidden cancer. People can only help themselves if they know the truth of what's going on.

Yeah, well, the betrayal has already happened, so that is water under the bridge.

But, your confession at this point would at least allow your H to know what happened to him, instead of doing what most of BS's have to do - question our sanity.

There is no question as to what the right path forward is; the only question is whether you have what it takes to do the right thing.

AGG

You don't have to wait for some sort of surge of strength to do this. All it takes on your part is opening your mouth or taking out a pen and paper.



I, for one, do not believe you. You know right from wrong. Anyone can SAY they want what is best for someone. Those who mean it show care through actions.



Withholding from someone facts about their life is the ultimate in control.



Hiding the truth doesn't make it not the truth.

If you had no intention of coming clean about your affair, I'm curious why you came here to ask for advice about whether or not you should tell him.

Brooke28
"I just want to do what is right for everyone especially H... what is the point of telling him if our marriage ends... what would be the point? The betrayal could scar him forever not to mention what it would do to H and OM parents and all our mutual friends"

Are you afraid that your BH will not take you back?

Many BH's decide it is better to recover rather than leave their marriage.

Even if you want to divorce your BH you would further hurt him by not telling the truth.

Your divorcing BH is not going to scar him?

Who is your BH going to be left to console himself with?
The OM!

Who will BH cry into his beer with?
The OM!

Who is going to tell BH to watch out that his best friend is most likely going to try and bang his next wife or girl friend?

How could you leave your BH so vulnerable and open to attack again from his BF?

Brooke28... are you 100% certain that BF will NEVER tell anyone else? What happens if he does? Are you 100% certain that only you and BF know what you did? What happens if they do and they tell? Are you 100% certain that you were never seen together? What happens if you were? If it all comes out from someone else (and it will eventually) you'll NEVER live it down.

People will not like you when they find out. They will be hurt. They will be outraged. Some people may never speak to you again. Some people will forgive. But what OTHER people DO as a result of what YOU did should not be a factor in you doing the right thing.

By not owning up to what you did and giving your husband the information he has a right to have, you are living a lie, every day... for the rest of your life. How's that feel? That's no way to live.

i for one, do beleive you. however i don't think you truely understand what is best for your BH right now.

I am also a FWW, one that confessed. I had a lot more to tell him AND it included being with one of his good friends too.

you can do this Brooke. it will not be easy. i know that from personal experience!!!

i came here same as you. looking for a way to fix my life. finally realizing just how (there really is no nice way to say this) horrible of a person i was being.

i had to confess stuff about something that happened while engaged, about something that happened 5yrs into our marriage and then about a whole bunch of stuff that happened 15yrs into the marraige, including with that "friend" of his.

for me, i hit such a rock bottom, there was no where else to go but up finally. the people here were kind, but FIRM and really helped me open my eyes.

i fear people are not always so kind any more. please don't let that run you off.

trust me there are still plenty of kind souls here that truely want to help you and your marriage.

you have had reasons to leave your BH, although you did not choose to use those reasons before. you need to look at why that is. and you need to make a very clear choice here.

i believe that no matter if you want to stay married or not, you have to tell him the truth.

but first you must decide, do you want this marriage or not.

are you able to answer that question?

like i said, either way, you must tell your BH because like others have said, he needs to know his best friend is not a friend. honestly that is one of the things that finally made me take action, his bf kept acting like a bf when in reality i knew he was not. i knew BH would not want to go golfing with the guy if he knew the truth, it just was not right to allow my BH to be betrayed over and over everyday he saw that bf.

and harder to face but even more importanly, i realized i was betryaing him every day i was with him and dishonest. i did want my marriage to recover.

if you cannot cleary say you want this marriage to end then you should see that as a sign of wanting to try. and you should aim high and work towards recovery.

and the first step is the only action you have to truely start to give back to him what you took when you betrayed him. the truth.

i know the sick feeling in your stomach right now. it took me two d-days to confess all. (something i DON"T recommend!!) but like i said, i had so much more that needed confessing.

we will be here supporting you.

'

My husband's 18 month affair was with the wife of his life long friend ....

My husband confessed to his friend - face to face

Owning our mistakes is how we restore personal integrity ...

What would be the point? The point is that your H has a RIGHT to know the truth about his own life. Honesty is the solution to adultery, NOT MORE LIES.


YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO DECIDE WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR VICTIM. The rapist is NEVER qualified to decide what is best for his rape victim. To not tell your H is to compound the crime with LIES. What is best for your H is to know the TRUTH.

You are not acting in his best interest by not telling him, Brooke. You are running from the consequences of your actions. The TRUTH is the solution for ALL, not more lies. Lying and manipulation is never the answer.

As Forever said...


As a BH I can tell you this is at the core of betrayal.

Can I get over the fact my W had sex w/ some scumbag?

...probably

Can I live with knowing she can lie to me about just about anything now?

...don't know.

Have I lost all respect I had for her because of the betrayal?

...you bet

Can I get it back?

Only if she chooses to be completely and totally honest with me about everything from here on out...

Some people think that betrayal is about the sex...the true impact and damage is caused by the lies, Brooke.

Someone has said that waiting to feel like doing something before doing it is living life backwards.

I hope you choose to do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because it's the easiest thing or the thing that results in the least conflict...

Not ONE person here will agree w/ your keeping it from him. FWSs stand side by side w/ BSs on this...don't you get that?

Your brother has NO CLUE what he's talking about...he has NO experience with this, as the good people here do...

...and FINALLY, stop looking for excuses!!!!

L2F

Agree. Talk is cheap. Lying to one's victim about adultery demonstrates the EXACT OPPOSITE, that you DO NOT want what is best for him, but want to evade the consequences of your actions. What is best for him is to know the truth about his own life so he can protect himself and make decisions accordingly.

Brooke,

It sounds to me that you see your options as:

1. Stay married and keep lying.

2. Don't stay married and keep lying.


Both of those options make you a liar...until you tell the truth. Are you willing to be a liar for the rest of your life?

There is another option:

Tell the truth.

Please consider how you would feel if the roles were reversed. Would you want your husband to walk out on you and you have no idea about why? Would you want to confide your hurts with someone who secretly betrayed you? Imagine telling YOUR best friend all the details of your marriage and divorce, all the while she is keeping the secret that she scr#wed your husband over and over.

THAT is the position you are considering putting your husband in. Surely, you cannot live with that.

YES, it will tremendously hurt your husband to know the truth and to face the betrayals of the two people he probably trusted the most. BUT that does NOT change the fact that his deserves to know this information.

From my perspective, it looks like you are just trying to find a way NOT to tell. If I don't tell, can I stay? Maybe I should just throw in the towel on my marriage now...why? So you don't have to tell.

It's time to grow up and face whatever consequences come from your actions. You will not be able to hide this forever.

Brooke,

My husband and my "friend" had an affair.

They decided not to tell me, because they didn't want to hurt me.

They decided they didn't want me to know, and that it would be okay for me to live the rest of my life never knowing their secret.

They decided they would have the affair.

They decided I couldn't handle the truth.

They decided I would be hurt by the truth, and crushed, and might leave my husband.

They decided that they needed to keep it a secret to "protect others".

They decided EVERYTHING.


Who the he// do they think they are?


Because where in there do I get to make the choices for my life?

They treated me like I had no brain. No dignity. No ability to handle the truth of my own life, my own marriage, my own relationship.

[email]B@stards.[/email]

You bet I was angry. I was angry about the LYING.

My husband was pretty much content to LIE to me about our relationship until the day he died.

DO YOU DEFINE THAT AS A LOVING BEHAVIOR?

I sure don't.

DO YOU DEFINE THAT AS RESPECT?

I don't.

I deserved to know the truth about my marriage and my life.

Why?

Because MUCH TO THEIR SURPRISE, the decision

I MADE ABOUT MY OWN LIFE

when they were not involved

was not what they had decided at all.

Because I decided I DID want the marriage to be recovered.


You see, YOU are not even giving him a chance to figure out what HE wants.

You might be very surprised, Brooke.

He might want something very different from what you think he wants. He has already had an affair, and he has learned something - the very same thing YOU JUST LEARNED.

The grass is NOT greener.

Now go tell him. Stop taking his decisions out of his hands. He is a big boy, and he can handle it.

While you might not like what he decides, you actually might end up liking it. You don't know - because he hasn't even been given the chance to decide.

And regarding all the other people who might get hurt? You aren't giving them any credit at all. How much do you want to bet at least one of the two couples have had infidelity in their lives??????? Odds are, they have. They may never tell YOU - but believe me, when they hear this news, it won't be such a huge surprise, Brooke. At least one of them have been there, done that, and have burned the t-shirt.

SB

Brooke,

Pep's post:

""My husband confessed to his friend - face to face ""

What a gutsy, manly thing to do, don't you agree??

Why doesn't your H's best friend man up and confess? Instead of hiding behind your skirts.

I think that is what a true friend would do.

EDITED TO READ: Of course a true friend wouldn't have bedded his best friends wife in the first place.

kirk

Brooke,

Your H WILL find out the truth.

While YOU may not tell him and YOU may decide to get a D, the OM can NOT get a D from your husband. If HE continues to pretend,and tries to continue as your H's BF eventually the lie will eat at HIM also. How much worse if someday HE tells and you have been out of the picture and your H can't even talk to you to get info about the A.

And what if you get a D and the OM abandons your H? That is not an unlikely scenario. Your H will probably put 2 and 2 together.

And what about your next relationship? Will you be honest and say that you never confessed the A to your husband? There are MANY good men out there who would not want to take a chance on you knowing that you were still lying to your now XH.

As a BS who caught her WH, I cannot tell you how MUCH I wish that HE had had the courage to confess. I want my M to recover completely and we are working hard at it, but this is sore spot.

You and your husband have hurt each other SO much. I know that when you got married you did not intend to do that,but....like so many of us, here you are.

There are MANY WONDERFUL FWS on here who will help you every step of the way.

Have courage.

WH2LE

Brooke,

When you are ready to confess, come back.

We can help you figure out HOW to do it. So that it lessens the likelihood of a total loss of the marriage.

There are ways to do this that are caring, and easier on the BS. And, with support, you CAN make this marriage better.

SB

Brooke,

Well, you have heard from just about all sides of this. You have heard from Betrayed spouses whose spouse had an affair with their best friend. You have heard from former Wayward spouses who did in fact have an affair with their spouse's best friend. You have heard from just about all sides of this.

Notice that all of them are giving you the same advice??? There is a reason and it is a reason you don't yet understand but you will.

The reason is you. You don't understand this yet, but whether or not your marriage makes it, the advice that is being given is for you. I am going to assume that in general you are a woman of morals, you are a woman of standards, you are a woman that honors her commitments and vows. I suspect I am not far off with that assumption.

If you are even close to my assumption, you are going to find that this will eat you up and change you in ways you cannot imagine. There have been many posters here over the 9 years I have been here that have been in your situation. One poster, Jill, struggled for over a year while posting here with telling her H, and she finally did. Do you know why? It was killing her, she wanted her marriage and the walls she put up to protect the truth was driving her H away. FL, as she mentioned as been there as well. Many others have.

So while most of the posters have stated the obvious truth, your H deserves to know the truth, the other obvious truth is YOU NEED TO SPEAK THE TRUTH. This advice is for you really. You have violated your own codes and I know you have them because when your H had an affair you took it very very hard, and you in fact did not work on the marriage while he was doing the heavy lifting.

Now it is you and you have taken it a step further, you have ruined your H's friendship with his best friend. It will never be the same even if you don't tell but your H will not know why. If this "best friend" has a modicum of conscience he will not be comfortable around your H. Further, he has no chance to repair this friendship unless he does tell your H what happened.

Brooke you need to do this for yourself. The "easy" route of not telling your H is not the "right" route nor will it protect anyone. Further, you put your H in great danger of being taken advantage of by his best friend. A best friend is someone you trust with your life, your money, your family, you friends, and his 'best friend' has shown that that trust is not warrented. In fact, he has shown that your H is in great danger if he ever trusts this man again. A man that will do what he did, to his best friend, and still hang around, is someone that most of us guys would happily put out of his misery. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Your H needs to be told to protect him from his BEST FRIEND. He needs to be told to give him a chance to make a decision about this marriage. AND he needs to be told to help you with your life.

I can see no good to come from this secret. This secret hurts all involved. The truth will be painful, of that there is no doubt, but like lancing a boil, it allows healing to begin.

You need to really consider the cost of not telling much more than worry about the cost of telling. Believe me the former will be much higher as this debt accrues interest and comes due.

Tell the man, but before you do come here and develop a plan to tell him in a way that allows you two to talk. I would recommend that this be done with a counselor or clergy present. Just my opinion on this one.

Must go. Please consider what everyone is telling you.

God Bless,

JL

Pepperband,

What is the status of your H and his former best friend? How did the best friend react? Was there is a physical altercation?

There were so many comments. I know some of you don't believe me but I really do want to do right by my H. After reading what schoolbus had to say and some other posters I realize I do not have the right to play God with his life. I don't want him to find out by accident 8 years from now. The only person that knows is my brother and a cousin of OM's. I know they would never say anything but still secrets do have a way of coming out.

I know most here think that xOM is scum but since our affair started he really has distanced himself from H and has not stepped foot in H's parents house. He really does feel guilty. xOM is a workaholic and travels extensively so it's not unusal for them to go weeks w/o seeing each other. H did get very worried about xOM when he passed on going to the Super Bowl. Incidents like that are what arouse suspicion and he also noted his email contact is not what it use to be. So on some level he knows something is wrong with his best friend.

I know in my head that I need to tell husband and after reading all the posts multiple times I understand now why he has to know even if the marriage ends.

I talked to my brother last night and told him the guilt was killing me and I was thisclose to telling H. He told me he thought xOM was about ready to crack as well and told me xOM has not had a restful night sleep since we started our affair (brother and xOM are best friends as well). He then told me he thought I was crazy to confess but he would be there for me to support me when all this came out.

The major problem I have now is I don't know if I want to stay married or not. Now my line of thinking is the most practical thing to do is confess and end the marriage so we can all move on with our lives. Bottom line I slept with his best friend in the whole world. At least H had the decency to have an affair with someone I did not know. I see no hope in making this marraige work at all. If I had slept with anyone else but his best friend I could see us getting past this. I think the betrayal would just be too much. I'm just rambling now. I will post some more when I am thinking more clearly.

Status: They do not see or speak , unless by accident. We live 400 miles away - however their mothers live across the street from each other - so chance "sightings" are possible - this is actually very rare - in 12 years of recovery maybe fewer than 5 times

"Best Friend": They grew up together - however they were not best friends at the time of the A. I would say "life long friends" is more like it - they went to Boy Scouts together, camping, spent holidays together growing up, etc.
As adults their time spent with each other was much less frequent

The Reaction: "I already knew about it when I read the love letters." My H was shocked, in part because OW lied and told my H she had destroyed the letters. (Adulterors lie, did you know that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )
His immediate response was strange - not anger - a sort of smugness ...

Physical altercation:
No. I was there too. We met him in a public place, a coffee shop.

OW's husband asked to meet me in private later that day - and I did. We shared information & he read me the love letters .... *gag*

However - I do need to stress MY POINT with you ....

our marriage has recovered because my husband took this first step - owning his mistakes - like a man!

Your X OM is a weasel <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Well first only 1/2 the decision to stay married is yours. Once your husband knows he has the right to decide for himself as well. Now you go on to again ASSume how your H will react. Tell him the truth. Give him all the facts that he asks for. Be quiet, remorseful and kind to him. Give him time to be angry, hurt whatever before you make yet another decision that affects HIS life. He may surprise you.

"Is confessing always the right thing to do?"

Is honesty the right thing?
Is owning your mistakes the right thing?

What will it take for you to hold you head high? More lies? More dishonesty? Another affair? Years of an unhappy marriage?

If you do not do the "right thing" now .... when will you?

Your brother has very low standards in choosing friends so it only makes sense that he would demonstrate such poor judgment about being honest with your husband.

I suspect he is more concerned about hiding the fact that he was complicit in hiding your affair from your H, which is why he would encourage you to LIE. He seems not be concerned AT ALL about you or your H, only himself. He is an accessory to the crime and is clearly only concerned about his own hide. If he cared about you, he would support you in BEING GOOD, not enable you to be BAD.

Brooke28,
Old saying: a secret can be kept between two people only when one of them is dead.

Four people now know of the afair, WW BHB OM OMC.

Your posts have caught the eye of MelodyLane and Pepperband. I seen their experience help many WS's and BS's.

In all fairness your BH has been suspecting something.

How can you make BH's brother carry the burden of this secret to his grave?

Do you know what damage will be done once your BH finds out that he was also betrayed by his brother for not telling him?

It could be enough to keep them apart for the rest of their lives. How do you think that turn of events is going to effect BH's parents?

There are so many people willing to help you here.

Your were strong enough to do it. Now take the next step and tell the truth.

Melody,

He does care for me.

My brother used to be best friends with H as well. That all went out the window when he found out about his affair and he has been on his ****** list ever since. He is biased.

For some history my brother introduced me to H. He met H and xOM at college and from that point on the 3 were together like glue until about 2 years ago.

Brooke, when you come out of the FOG, you will not remember your brother fondly. He is the "friend" who gave the chronic alcoholic whiskey. He is the "friend" who gave the suicidal a pistol because he only wanted to be liked. That is your brothers idea of "caring."

Helping you lie and cheat and destroy your marriage and your own soul is not the act of someone who CARES, but the behavior of someone who does not give a DAMN. Caring is NOT demonstrated by ENABLING bad behaviors. If your brother cared ABOUT YOU, he would support you in BEING GOOD. He could never abide seeing this self destruction in someone he supposedly "cares" about.

H's brother does not know what is going. It's my brother that knows.

I am trying to figure the best time to tell H and how. He is on a business trip now but will be back on Friday. After that he does not have to be back at work until March 3rd. I know I have to do it sooner rather than later. If I don't do it this weekend I am not sure I will ever do it. I am not sure I can face him. Maybe I should write a letter and tell him. I am trying to figure out the best way to do it.

Is H known to have a bad temper?

Does H use alcohol very much?

Are there weapons in your home? (remove any)

Brooke,

I'm glad you are still posting.

I'm not sure what more I can say other than to tell you that we will be here to support you all the way. I understand your fear. I've been there. You are not alone.

I hope you read FF's post closely. Don't assume how your BH will respond and don't certainly don't make decisions based on assumptions.

Brooke, the only way to do it is face to face. Yes, you can do that and should do that. It is in your best interest - and his - to face this HEAD ON no matter how hard it is.

And I understand completely that this will be hard, but don't degrade yourself by doing this dishonorably without facing him. You CAN face him. WITH HONOR.

And that is what it will take to REGAIN the dignity and honor you LOST by having an affair.

You are not a cockroach anymore, so you do not have to hide. Face this in an HONORABLE manner, Brooke. CHOOSE to behave with HONOR AND DIGNITY starting TODAY. TREAT YOURSELF WITH HONOR AND DIGNITY, Brooke.

Brook,

We have all been reading and posting but I wonder if you are really listening. If you tell your H you may well find that there is something there and that both of you want to rebuild this marriage. You may find you have nothing left for your H and want to divorce. Your H may find your betrayal and that of his "best friend" more than he can handle and want out no matter what you want.

Noone can tell you the future. But, we can tell you with great accuracy that keeping this secret will erode you, your feelings for your brother, your relationship with OM (who cares), and clearly the relationship with your H. And finally, it will change even how you deal with your parents, yup, even they will be affected if they are still alive.

Girl, betrayal runs soooo deep, and deceit makes betrayal even worse. Someone is going to spill the beans.

My recommendation is that it is you. It offers you and your H the best possible scenario to make decisions that are best for each of you and both of you.

Brook, this is not about pain now. It is about an opportunity to set the course for the rest of your life. Will it be led in the shadow of lies and betrayal, or will it be led in the light of honesty? Your H deserves no less that honesty from you, and you NEED to be honest.

Please think about this. I will close by quoting you an "honor code" used in military academies. "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerate those that do." Simple, and very powerful. The first question asked by incoming cadets, "do you really expect us to turn in a friend?"

The answer, the code is straight forward. If you know of a violation and don't turn it in you are going to be found to be just a guilty as the person who did it. So yes, but more importantly a person that would put you in the position of having to make this decision is really NOT your friend.

Brooke, many people are now guilty of betraying your H and that includes his "best friend" is other "best friend" your brother, whoever you have confided in, and clearly yourself. It is time you took your brother out of the middle of this, and also your H's "best friend". Your brother has tried to protect you, but in doing so he has hurt you, and himself. He is as big a liar as OM and you now.

Isn't it time you step away from this and do the right thing? I think so.

God Bless,

JL

AMEN

Brooke,

regarding your brother. I partially agree with Melody. My sister knew and enabled it. In truth i was falling apart so bad, i really needed her help me to be a good person, for MY SAKE. like melody is saying. I wish she could of done that for me.

however, i do not judge her as harshly as melody is saying. i don't believe she did not give a DAMM.

I see her as someone who's own moral compass is messed up too.

I still care for her, but she is NOT someone I look to for guidance. really our relationship is pretty much just gone. i know she also still cares for me. but she keeps her distance for the marriage sake now. she knows my husband does not like her now. she does not blame him but she also does not apologize. i have even told her I wished she had been hard on me, not enabled my behavior. i honestly believe she just doesn't even understand what i am saying. she says she just wanted me to be happy. she does not get it. a person cannot be happy doing things i was doing.

AMEN to this too !

Pepperband,

Husband does not drink, a real health nut. I am not worried about my physical safety though I know I will get the verbal thrashing of my life.

What worries me is that I know H will go after xOM. H and xOM are skilled in the martial arts and had black belts by the time they were 12. They could do a lot of damage to each other. I know OM will not stand there and let H beat the crap out of him. He will defend himself. I don't want to see H end up in jail or hurt. I am simply not worth it.

I am going to tell my brother to tell xOM to leave town for a few days until H can cool off.

advice on how to tell. i first wrote a note. i had it ready to give it to him in case i didn't get everything out, because of my inablity or in case i was cut off by his reaction.

i wanted to have a fail safe way to know he would be given the information no matter what.

we were alone. I know JL recommends doing it in the presense of a MC or pastor. i know many do it this way too.

my husband does not like any MC and we were not close to a pastor. he is a very private man, having this occur between just between him and i was best for him.

OK

I believe telling him on my own is the best course of action. He is an Atheist so any kind of clergy is out. I never bonded with our MC and only went a few times. I know I can tell him about the affair itself but when I get to the who part I know I will fall apart.

no you won't!

if i was able to, so can you!

There is a huge difference between caring and enabling and I think many confuse the two. Enabling is NOT really caring, it is fools gold that only looks like caring. A person that really cares will not ignore it while their sibling destroys herself because if they truly care, they could not BEAR to watch it anymore than they could bear to watch their friend take 30 lashes.

A caring person would do whatever she could to help that person STOP harming herself. A person who does not care will either ignore it or ENABLE it as Brookes brother has done.

In her brother's case, exposure of the affair potentially leads to exposure of the fact that HE was complicit all along and never lifted a finger to alert his BIL. I think THAT is what he really "cares" about.

I agree that telling him on your own is the best course of action. And yes, it will be hard. But this is your chance to right that wrong and regain the honor you lost.

Expect him to be very upset, but also be prepared and willing to answer all of his questions openly and honestly.

And Brooke, please rely on us. Come here before and after and we can help you through it. We all know it is hard.

melody, only a person who is healthy enough themselves to understand what we are both saying is capable of doing what we both are saying people should do.

"I think THAT is what he really "cares" about." that is what you THINK. you do not know anything about the inside of her brother's heart.

i know my sister was honestly doing what she felt was best for me. she was dead wrong. but that does not negate her love for me.

it was not a healthy or helpful love.

i know this, and i also know that she still does not get it.

you can continue to go on and on about how evil her brother is if you want to. your choice. i've done my best to explain my view. i accept yours as yours.

Telling him will be hard...but not near as hard as keeping it from him.

Oh, I don't know. I don't think enablers are concerned with what is BEST for that person, but are concerned about telling them what they want that HEAR in order to be liked. That is the hallmark of an enabler. To avoid causing conflict and being LIKED at any cost. Any sane person knows that lying and cheating is not in anyone's best interest. But telling a person what they want to hear, no matter how destructive, is always the least risky.

I think once she does recover, she will not remember her brother's uncaring behavior fondly and may feel differently. I don't think he is "evil," but she needs to be clear that his behavior is not "caring" but ENABLING.

Amen, Ruby.

I have to disagree with that. I truly believe with every fiber of my being he wants to protect me. Out of everyone involved he has the least to lose when this is exposed. He is no longer friends with H. That ended when he found out about his affair. He might get a few lectures but that is about it. His concern is me and the impact it will have on all our friends and family.

Hopefully he will grow up to understand some day that he has not been protecting you or your H or anyone concerned. Lying and cheating have a devastating effect on marriages and consciences. True CARING is demonstrated by ACTION, not a nebulous feeling that is never backed up by action. you will know them by their fruits.

it's ok that you and i and melody may not agree as to what is motivating people and what is in their heart.

we should not be distracting you with discussion about your brother. you have more important things to focus on. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Brooke28,
Not sure why your brother had a falling out with your BH.
Being that your brother maybe giving advice that is too biased instead of being fair and impartial.

If your BH comes home Friday, I hope you can tell him Saturday. This way BH can have as much time to process the truth before he has to go back to work.

Well, what about the impact it will have on you trying to keep this horrible secret for the rest of your life. Brooke, it will destroy you.

Brooke,

You can do this. Tell youself that over and over. Look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that.

Please keep posting.

Brooke,

Glad you're still here.

When you tell him, keep a few things in your mind.

Remember the feeling of love. Remember you are telling him something that will hurt him, and remember that he will feel pain. Try to forget your own fear and selfishness during this time, and to do this with the love of a wife.

Because I want to tell you the next thing:

Don't be so sure that you will want a divorce after you tell him. You might actually find yourself wanting to save this marriage. He may react so differently than you expect, that you may find a man you never knew existed within him. Be ready for your feelings to be so mixed - and for his reaction to be mixed from day to day and from moment to moment.

Don't make any decisions right away. Ask him not to make any decisions right away, either.

Because this is a very rough time.

I'm saying this because he has had an affair, and from what you will learn on this website and the materials here, is that you two most likely did not do a proper recovery the first time around.

That first affair - has affected what is happening right now.

You two never really got it together after that, and the marriage was left wide open and vulnerable for this to happen again.

But
but
but

There IS hope for you two, if you both love each other. If that basic feeling of love is there, you CAN recover your marriage.

I believe, from what you have written, that you do have that basic love for him, and he does for you.

So, there IS a recovery possible here.

Contact the Harleys, and talk to them. Read this website, because the plan here can help you two figure out how to make the marriage a better one, even after this mess.

Believe it.

SB

Good Morning Brooke,

I just wanted to check in with you and say Hi.

Hi FL2H,

Good morning to you. I am thinking up different ways to tell him. There really is no ideal way. I asked my brother to tell xOM to please leave town when I tell him this weekend. My brother relayed to me he is not going anywhere and is ready for the fall out. He is relieved the truth is coming out. That has me really on edge. Now that I have made the decision to tell all I want to do is get it over with.

YIKES! I was just going to tell you not to warn the OM. That gives him time to either tell your BH first or craft a story to make you look like the bad guy. Be prepared just in case he beats you to the punch.

He would not do that. I know you might be thinking I am in some sort of fog but that is not the case. My main concern is that H does not end up in jail. I was thinking of calling xOM myself but decided against it. I want to be able to tell H we have had NC since we ended the affair.

Could you have your brother and BH's brother there close by when use tell?

Have them block BH's car in the drive way so he can't tear off in a rage.

Can they be on the back patio or front porch?

I don't know. I feel that it's really important that its just me and him there when I tell him. He is going to feel humilated as it is. My brother lives a couple of blocks from xOM so maybe he can keep order at xOM house. I just wish he would leave town when I tell him. One less thing I would have to worry about.

Brooke,

I don't mean to be harsh with you, but you need to realize that all the things you think aren't possible....are...given the right circumstances.

Did you ever think it possible that you would have an affair with your husband's best friend?

Did you ever think he would come on to you?

Life's circumstances have changed. By sharing this information with OM, you have now given him the opportunity to protect his own interests. He has already demonstrated he has no respect for your marriage, you, or your husband. You need to see that. He is an enemy to your marriage. He is not a friend to your husband or to you. And yes, you are still in the fog about OM.

You need to talk with your husband as soon as he returns.

There are people here who can help you formulate what to say so that the least amount of damage occurs. I hope you will let them.

Are your ready for some help with that?




BTW, I see you have made the decision to tell the truth. I respect you for that. You will continue to gain respect here as you follow through on this. If you commit to being honest and working through this with your husband, you will once again become the woman you want to be.

Hi Brooke,

see you are WAY ahead of me!!! it took me a really long time to get the nerve to tell. and it took WAY more than 6 pages of posts to convince me to confess!!

i like the idea of blocking the car... is there anyway you can do that with your own car? or can you quietly get a hold of BH's keys right before you tell him?

my BH the next day went to the brother of the "friend" OM and told him what had occured (to my knowledge the brother did not know prior to that point) and he told him to pass on the message to never contact him again.

i do agree with others here.... you should not be letting OM know what is going on.

i understand your desire to keep everyone safe and out of jail.

it's too late to untell the OM now. so we move on.

seems to me that letting your brother know the day it comes down and having him on alert in case your BH takes off looking for OM sounds smart.

the key now is telling your BH as soon as you can.

you hanging in there ok?

FL2H,

I can't live in this limbo anymore. My marriage has been in limbo for 2 years now. I can't deal with it anymore. It's gone on way too long. Before I started posting I really was convinced that ending the marriage an moving on was the right thing. After reading the post by bus I realized I had no right to keep this secret. This weekend is the perfect time to do it. He has vacation time coming up and not expected back at work.

i;m very proud of you Brooke. for what that's worth <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i'm not always near a computer over weekends but i'll do my best to try to stay connected.

Brooke,

I encourage you to ask Schoolbus for some help in HOW to tell your BH.

You are going to feel very anxious tomorrow. Remember to breathe.

Are you a Christian? If so, pray for God's guidance and that He calm your spirit. I'll be praying that for you.

Brooke28,

You will feel so much better when you unload this burden. Thank you for telling your BH.

"I was thinking of calling xOM myself but decided against it. I want to be able to tell H we have had NC since we ended the affair"

Whether you met in person, phone, IM, text, email, letter, have someone else deliver the message you have had further contact with the OM. Having communication is not having NC.

You are still putting the OM first and ahead of your BH.

The cost of a phone call $.25 cents. Loyalty, priceless. Breaking NC is not showing remorse.

OM will now be sitting home plotting how to use your warning to his advantage.

Brooke,

Gosh, I don't know what to say, except that I'm very glad to say that you have decided to tell him the truth.

The "how" to do it is a very good question.

Is there a right way? I don't think so. But there are ways to lessen the blow, I believe.

Understand this - the minute you say the words "I had an affair", the very next thing you say will be lost words.

So you must pause after those words, and allow him to process that. People who have been given bad news tend to more or less "freeze" at the point of the bad news, and have difficulty processing the rest of the information beyond a certain point. That is why they return and ask the same questions, over and over.

It's better to give some pauses in your talking in order to allow that process time to happen, before going on.

That being said, here's how I WISH I had been told. Instead, I discovered the affair on my own.

Maybe you could work from this vantage point:

H, for awhile I have searched my soul to try to find a way to tell you what has happened in my life, in our lives. To say I am sorry will never express the grief that I feel, nor begin to take away the pain that I know I have caused between us. When I began down the road I took, it was to fulfill a selfish need in myself. I saw nothing but myself, thought only of myself, and cannot for the life of me understand why I walked that road.

I can only now tell you that I regret that walk. I regret each and every moment of it, and if I have to spend every minute of my life making amends to you for it, I will.

I will do everything it takes to make our marriage work, because having this relationship work this time means everything to me.

We both know what an affair can do to a marriage. We never recovered from the last affair. We did not protect our marriage from other people. There wasn't a plan for us to rebuild our love, to rebuild our marriage, and the result is that we were not insulated from the damage of affairs. I know now that there is a place where we can get help for our marriage. That there is help, and that we can recover from the damage that has been done between us - from your affair back then.

And from my affair, now. You see, I have had an affair.

------pause here--------------

He will ask questions


You wait him out a minute.


Then say,


I know you have questions now. I know you are angry. I understand that, and I accept 100% of the blame for my affair.

I will answer all of your questions, because you deserve all of the answers. You have a right to make decisions about your life, and your marriage.

But for now, please, can we agree not to make any decisions for a least a few weeks? That way, we can both calm down, and make more rational choices for ourselves, and for our marriage. If we take things more slowly, and work together, we may be able to handle this with an outcome that is okay for both of us. We may even be able to save our marriage, and we might even end up with a stronger marriage together.

I'm willing to try, because I do have the love for you that it will take, and I know you have that love for me.


Wait for him.....he will have questions, he will swing from mood to mood.

The best thing you can do is let him vent, and for YOU to remain perfectly calm and accept his venting. Repeat for him that you accept the blame, 100%. That the affair was about YOU, not about him, not about what he did or did not do for you, not about his looks, not about the other man.

Because, Brooke, as you will learn here, the affair - -

really IS all about the wayward spouse.


Tell him at some point that you had no right to look outside the marriage for comfort, or for having your emotional needs met.

Tell him at some point that you had no right to talk to another man about things you should have talked to your husband about.

Tell him that you have regret, remorse, and disgust about your actions.

IN NO CASE do you tell him that you sought out the other man because of anything you found lacking about your husband.

This talk now belongs to him - his questions will likely become the focal point, and take the lead for the rest of the weekend. He will want to know some details, and ask them over and over. He will be trying to figure out how long he was lied to, and about what. DO NOT LIE TO HIM ABOUT ANYTHING AT ALL. This is very important, because ANYTHING you hold back now WILL come back to haunt you later. Do not try to protect him, do not try to hold back information for any reason. If he asks, answer with simple responses - tell him you will answer in more detail later if he wants, but at this point can you agree to cover the major points, and if you two feel he's bogged down in details you can agree to do that later on, because you know he will have many more questions and you have lots of time for that. Reassure him that you will answer those details as he comes up with questions.

Be very honest, but do not say things he will feel are a put-down to him. He will cling to those. For example, don't say "I liked OM's body better" - instead, say, "We need to work on fulfilling each other's emotional needs better, and there are many - one of which is physical attraction. The information I'm reading is really helpful on that." Suggest that the two of you read "After the Affair" or "Surviving the Affair" together, so that you can begin a recovery.

Your husband will ask "why". Your response should be, "I was selfish, stupid, and self-centered. I was irresponsible, and not in control of myself. I was living a fantasy, and forgot that the REAL man of my dreams was YOU. I was a total idiot."

Because that, Brooke, is about as close to the truth as it gets. Harsh, yes, but if my husband had said that - I would have LOVED to have heard it. Instead, I got, "I don't know." How frustrating that was.

I hope this helps.

Oh, by the way, your body language!!!!

You should sit without anything between you, facing him but at a slight angle. Touch and hold his hands, both of them. Try as much as possible to look at him when you do this, but not stare - this is going to be the hardest thing, to look at him, but try to look up at him when you get your strength to do so. He will be able to judge your honesty and sincerity when you apologize. At least start out that way - looking at him. When you talk about your plan for recovery - the MB plan - try to look at him, because it will be your stronger part.

You will cry, but try to contain it. You will need to be strong for him.

SB

SB...

That is truly beautiful...

This needs to be the epilogue of the WS handbook.

Brooke, you are truly blessed to have the support and guidance of such wonderful people here.

You will be rewarded for your decision to do the right thing.

It will be VERY hard...but know that no matter what happens to your marriage, it will be the ONLY way to move forward in YOUR life...with honesty, dignity, respect and love.

L2F

Morning Brooke,

Thinking of you. You doing ok?

FLT2H,

You know I am a lot calmer than I thought I would be and I was finally able to get some sleep last night. I have been very very restless since xOM and I ended our EMA. I doubt I will post over the weekend so don't feel you have to pop in on my account. I doubt I will be in any condition to post. I know my life will never be the same after this weekend.

I live in a big city but still I know a lot of people here especially in my neighborhood. I went to the grocery store one last time before the whispers, stares, and dirty looks start. I went to my salon the most gossipy place you can imagine before the [censored] hit the fan. I will be a topic of conversation there for months to come like my H was.

schoolbus,

You have given me some very good ideas and I thank you for it. I just hope I can get it out the right way to cause the least amount of pain possible.

Good luck to you this weekend Brooke28. Remember, you can come back here for support anytime.

Brooke,

i'm glad you are feeling calm. don't assume anything, not everyone in the world needs to know. just keep breathing and be there for your WH.

and, i'm still going to keep an eye out for you as best I can, just in case...

no matter what, know i'll be praying for you.

and you are right, your life won't be the same, it's going to start getting better now. that is really a good thing Brooke. I know it's hard for you to see that now.

God Bless!!

Brooke,

I will be praying for you this weekend. You are absolutely doing the right thing.

*IF*the neighborhood starts gossiping about you, remind yourself of several things:

1)Jesus Himself said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He said this to the self-righteous Pharisees who felt that an ADULTRESS should be stoned for her sin. His point was that NO ONE is without sin and that NO ONE has the right to stone you(with gossip, with dirty looks, with shunning) for YOUR sin. Jesus knew that every one of those Pharisees had hidden sin, skeletons in their closets.
Adultrey is a sin like any other, not better, not worse. All sin is equally awful, seperating us from God. Hold your head high after you confess. You may be surprised. Someone in a similar situation, who needs encouragement to do the same, may turn to you after they see you.

2)If you have asked for forgiveness, God HAS forgiven your sin. It may be a while before your husband is able to do the same, but God is a different matter. I think this is one of the few thoughts that got my husband through the first few days after D-Day. Even "I" had to admit that if he was truly repentant that God had forgiven him. He was and you certainly sound like you are.

God be with you.
WH2LE

Brooke,

I am thinking of you and praying for you and your husband this evening. I will check back over the weekend...just in case you need the support.

You ARE doing the right thing. And we WILL be here for you.

And SB, that dialog was incredible!!! Wow! If we all could hear it like that. You are right, it WOULD lessen the blow.

Ditto SMB's post.

I admire your decision, Brooke. It shows tremendous character.

ditto, God bless you!

Well heck Brooke, now that you have come down from the hormonal overload that drove the affair, you are scared. And the fright or flight symptoms are coming to the surface.

Getting a divorce is running from your failure to act honorably. After you found out about your husband's affair, you more or less said you just went through the motions. How smart was that looking back?

Getting a divorce because of what you did - no matter how you rationalize it - isn't real honorable either, some would say.

Don't worry about the xOM, he is who he is and lacking in integrity and honor is who he is; all feelings of guilt being just cover for nailing his BF's wife, something that a certain type of male secretly relishes. And please do not project the same values on the xOM that you do upon yourself, either positive or negative. Frankly I am shocked that your brother continues to have anything to do with him. You clearly shouldn't. Forget the xOM, cut him out of your life permanently.

Now it is that your husband acted without honor when he had an affair. I would guess you will never forget how you felt at the time. Why you would choose to do the same thing is interesting. Be that as it may, you have some idea how he will feel when he finds out, yet you are both older and now wiser.

The only way either of you can live a life of honor is through the truth. You now know that.

My wife had an affair with someone who would qualify as my best friend. He is no longer a part of our life. After two and a half years, my wife spits on his name. We just found a box of his stuff and she wanted to burn it on the spot. The look on her face said it all. Course she has worked herself silly restoring our relationship and our mutual honor.

If you have what it takes, so can you. Yes, that is a challenge. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I wish you well.

Larry

Good Morning Brooke. we are here. continuing to pray for you.

Hey Brooke,

Just another person here to support you. My guess is that you will find him maybe a little more understanding than you anticipate. Remember that he once fell into the same 'trap' you did - an escape. He understands what is behind the A.

That being said, there will probably still be anger. I know I was absolutely furious when I found out that my FBS had his own A...but I still loved him. And I would have gladly worked on our M if he had wanted to.

You have two advantages over most people. You have already ended the A, and you confessed. He will see that. Sooner or later, those two things will help your marriage heal.

Good luck. I'll be thinking about you.

Brooke
i hope you are doing ok...
you have recieved a lot of advice...my usual "take" is to get a professional counselor's help and support.. and to insure your physical safety.. and as you mentioned you dont fear your husband physically..
note that it is never to late to get pro counseling...from psych people or clergy or any sympathetic person.
reach out to family and friends and others for support..

..my prayers go with you
jb

prayers continueing... i'll be back late tommorow.

Brooke, continuing to pray for you and your husband.

Things may seem unbarably painful right now, but over time, you will come through these dark days.

Brooke,

We are here for you. Come back and tell us how it went - the good and the bad.

We can help with the next step, no matter what.

SB

Hi everyone. I actually went through with it and confessed. I am not really up for writing chapter and verse what happened (will do that later) but H went crazy when I told him who OM was. He cussed me out. I think he rearranged every piece of furniture in the house. I have never seen anyone so angry and heartbroken at the same time. He said he had to leave before he hurt me and that he cursed the day he ever met me and xOM. He stormed out of the house and I have not heard from him since. He will not answer any of my calls or texts. I would not be shocked at all if he served me with divorce papers on Monday. He will probably draw them up himself.

May God help your poor bleeding and wounded husband. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Brooke,

I've been following your story closely although I haven't posted. I've prayed.

Have patience and hope. You are very brave.

I'm not sure that your marriage is salvageable but I truly hope that when your husband's rage subsides, that he gains the insight/empathy as to how you felt when you found out about his affair. If he does then his personal recovery will begin in earnest and he will eventually let go of the anger and bitterness that have taken residence in his heart at this moment in time.

Nutchecked, it would be a bad idea for her to suggest any such a thing to her husband. The timing of any such notion would be ill advised. The purpose here was not to force him to have empathy for her, after all. He will be angry for a very long time, which is a natural, normal phase of the long road to recovery. Anger is a very natural, appropriate response to such a trauma.

Brooke

You did the RIGHT thing! You took the first step to begin the long road to healing and restoring your self-repect and honor. Hopefully, your husband will join you on the road to healing. I am sure you must feel like there is no hope right now, but the truth is there was no hope for your marriage as long as this secret was between you. It would have eaten you alive, and you would have made all kinds of excuses in your mind to close yourself off from your husband.

Your husband is LITERALLY in shock right now. The best thing you can do for him is to be completely open and honest with him when he asks you questions. Demonstrate YOUR willingness to do whatever it takes to recover your marriage, even if he states that he has no desire and it will never happen. He will go through all kinds of emotions. Do NOT bring up his affair right now other than to express that there is a road to recovery that you didn't know about then.

If he needs to talk/vent, just listen as calmly as you can.

If you can keep your walls down while he is agonizing over this information, you will greatly increase your chances to recover. But if you begin to justify, rationalize, disrepect, or have angry outburst in response, you are only putting up walls to protect yourself and distance you from him. Keep those walls down. BE vulnerable. (unless you feel your safety is at risk. Seek help if you sense that.)

Brooke, please know that you handled this the best you could at this point. Many of us BS's wish we would have learned about the affair the way your husband did.

Brooke,

Personally I am very proud of your courage. No matter what happens now, you have told the truth. You will not be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life wondering if someone is going to leak your secret.

When my H finally gave me the full truth, I called him every name I could think of. I wished that I knew more swear words. I also told him I cursed the day I met him and I told him that I wished the OW's son would beat him to a pulp. At that moment I meant it.

We are sloooooowly recovering. I love him with all my heart and I am commited to him. I pray every day that we will continue to see our way through the darkness.

I pray the same thing for you and I know that everyone here will help you. Read all of Resonance's and FLT2H's posts. They are fabulous FWWs as are many others.

But again, no matter what you did the right thing.

WH2LE

In fact, nutchecked, the more likely reaction will not be empathy, but resentment at the recognition that Brooke KNEW how traumatic and cruel it is. Therefore, she can't claim ignorance of its effect on her victim.

That awareness won't engender empathy, but increased resentment, I suspect. She not only knew how devastating it is, but compounded the crime by doing it with his so-called "friend."

One of the reasons many BSs don't commit adultery is because they DO KNOW how traumatic it is.

Hi Brooke,

I'm so sorry it went to bad. My heart goes out to you and your husband.

Please try to stay calm.

Which day did you tell him? I mean are you saying you have not heard from him like friday night or this morning?

Like sexymamabear said, keep your walls down. I know that might be a hard thing to do. sure would be easier to close up shop and run off yourself too. but the best thing for recovery is to stay calm and be open for him.

I do pray you hear from him soon. We are here, post whenever you want about whatever you want.

God Bless.

Nutchecked

A WS when confessing an affair should never give excuses or reasons because it will only be seen as justifing/blame shifting why the WS had an affair.

For the same reason when the WS should not say well now you know how I felt when I was the BW when you where the WH.

Next when a person has the courage to confess, why kick them when they are already down, by saying you think their chances of recovery are not good.

totally agree, no justification or blame shifting should be done. I did not see where nutchecked was suggesting to do that. only the hope that her BH might gain that insight/empathy so that it might help him heal. let's keep this thread focus on Brooke right now.

i also agree that we will do Brooke the most good right now (which is why we are here right?) if we keep a postive attitude.

Brooke, one point to hold on to right now, regardless of anything, YOU are on the path of recovery, something that had to occur for your marriage.

I'm very proud of you. I hope you are keeping yourself rested and cared for. Are you sleeping and eating ok?

nutchecked, if you feel the need to respond to ML or TheRoad, please consider opening up a seperate thread so that this thread can stay focused on Brooke. I'ld really hate for some big debate to start up here right now.

knock it off, FLTH, telling others where and how to post is extremely hostile and more likely to cause conflict, which you well know. The board bully act always has that result. If you have a problem with how or where folks post, please notify the mods rather than appointing yourself the thread police. That is their job, not yours.

ML, i respectfully asked someone to consider an alternative action. I am not being a bully or a thread police.

And I respectfully ask that you knock it off and leave the policing to the board moderators.

Brooke,

How ya doing?

How's it going, Brooke? Can we get an update on your husband?

What did I 'suggest"?

Hi Nutchecked

The vets (of which MelodyLane is one) are amazing. Stick around and you will see how amazing. Some of this stuff is not intuitive. Don't worry, you will pick it up. Brooke has done something incredibly courageous and Melody wants to make sure it does not derail.

Sit back and listen. Learn with us. This stuff is great!

FLTH.... Mel has been spot on with her advice and words. Perhaps you should speak less and read more ...you might learn something.

I don't know what you suggest. My point was about HER wisdom in suggesting your points to her BS, a very bad move.

ML,

You may be right regarding Brooke's H reaction but I want to reiterate that it is my hope that when he has a chance to think things through, that he will see how it felt for Brook when she found out about his affair. Please don't extrapolate my views and paint me as someone that condones Brook's affair for that is simply not the case. BTW I am also a FBH whose marriage ended when my ex-WW left me for her OM. She married the OM shortly after our divorce but was paid in kind a few years later when he left her for an OW. I received a letter from my ex-WW last year telling me how very sorry she was for betraying me the way she did and that if it was any consolation that she now knows firsthand what it's like to be stabbed in the back. Sometimes it takes a WS becoming a BS to fully comprehend the magnitude of the devastation that his/her affair brought to his/her BS.

Nowhere in my post did I say to her that she should tell her H to empathize with her situation as a BW now that he is a BH. It is my hope though that he comes to this conclusion by his own thought processes and not anybody else's.

Thanks for the background information and the clarification, nutchecked. Perhaps he will some day have an increased sense of empathy. I sort of doubt it given that since she was once a BS she KNOWS what it is like and still chose to do it to him. That is the usual response to a BS who cheats, not enhanced empathy.

Even so, my empathy lies with her husband right now. He deserves our sympathy and empathy. I applaud Brooke for telling him. I know that was not easy. I hope that she does focus her attention on being as supportive of him as possible.

And nowhere did I say you did. But you never told her NOT to bring it up, so I DID. Empathy for her affair seemed an odd suggestion in light of the current circumstances. I think she would be better served focusing on empathy for HER VICTIM, not herself, given that he is the one in dire straits.

Empathy for her affair? I don't think so. The empathy is for her as a BW for HIS affair. She may not be a victim but neither is he.

Of course he is a victim. He is a victim of adultery. Not only an affair, but an affair with his BEST FRIEND. A double betrayal. He has been betrayed in the worst possible way by his wife and his best friend. He most certainly IS a victim. He has been dealt a blow as traumatic as the death of a child or a RAPE.

I wonder if you perhaps don't understand the gravity or the dynamics of adultery, which would explain your odd focus on attention to misplaced empathy for Brooke?

FL2H,

I slept very bad last night but I have been eating. I really want to thank you for your support. It means a lot to me. I want to thank everyone else as well.

I am stressed to the brink and I can barely think. Things have gone from bad to worse. My brother told me that xOM and H got into a knock out drag out fight in his front yard. I don't know how they all ended up at my brothers. By some miracle the police were not called but they both had to have medical attention. He said that H took one look at xOM and attacked him. He still will not return my phone calls or anything. I have not seen him since yesterday.

I feel literally sick right now. Oh and I had to tell my parents. They were livid. They yelled at me for 30 minutes. They said I should have divorced H 2 years ago if I was going to have an affair. They also wanted to know if I was going to have one why his best friend. After they calmed down they told me they would support me and they loved me. They strongly encouraged me to end the marriage, learn from this experience and get on with my life. They kept on saying I have been stuck too long.

This silence he is giving me is driving me crazy. I wish he would yell at me or do something!! I don't know how much more of this I can take.

H's mother called and told me I was a ******. She would not tell me anything. In the end she hung up on me.

What an absolute tragedy with far reaching ramifications. Brooke, I do applaud you for doing the right thing and telling your H, but I suspect this won't be easy for awhile. This affair has effected many more people than just your H. This, no doubt, has devastated your H, and I hope he doesn't harm himself in his fury. Hang in there. You were very brave in telling him the truth.

Brooke,

Time and patience is the order of the day. Your H has had a rather nasty shock. Oh! and don't worry too much about a bit of a physical confrontation, it might have helped clear some of this for both of them. They may never be good friends again, but this may have been what both needed. In one case to clear some of the guilt and the other to normalize some of the sting of the betrayal.

Don't make any decisions for some time now. It has only been a few days. You need to be thinking in terms of months or even years. So calm down, things will sort out one way or another, but it will take time and patience for you to make a good decision.

You have done better than you realize for all concerned given that your H had already been betrayed by OM and you, it just a matter of your H knowing what was wrong.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

Oh there's no doubt that he has suffered a double betrayal but HE IS ALSO A BETRAYER and to act as though he isn't is sheer hypocrisy on his part. He is NOT free of the sin that he visited on his W a short time ago.


Wonder as much as you want. It really doesn't change a thing.

Hey Brooke, so good to hear from you.

I am very glad to be here for you. sort of a pay it forward thing... there were so many kind souls that helped me so much (like JL).

and what he says is so true. Time and patience are key. it took me a while to get the concept of months and years!! but it's true.

there will be others that will be unable to show you compasion, that is their problem. that does NOT mean you do not deserve compasion.

and don't worry about those that voice their doubts about your marriage. you hang on to the hope of recovery. there was an older woman who at her DH's funeral was asked how they managed to stay together for so long. her answer was, one of them always managed to keep belief in them alive.

at times, we all have doubts. well right now your BH will have a ton of doubts. You have to be the one with the hope and belief. don't make any quick decisions to run off.

you can become a much stronger couple in spite of all this and right now YOU have to be the one that holds on to that thought.

honestly, the best way to ease your pain is to stay focused on your BH. i know that is hard given he is not around, however, here is one thing you can do.... TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF!!! you will not be able to help him if you are a total mess with no sleep. (i'm glad you are eating). so take some benedryl (if you are not alergic) and get your rest.

keep posting, i'll be here.

Brooke,

Praying for you and your H, and for all extended families.

Good moring Brooke,

I hope you got some sleep. Prayers for you and your DH continue.

Brooke,

As mentioned above, please do not rush into making any decisions. Even if your BH files for divorce, there is still hope.

No one, not your parents, not your MIL, not your friends, not even us, can tell you that you should get a divorce. That is a decision only and, and of course, your husband, can make. It will be a tough road ahead for both of you, whether you stay married or not. You see, the pain of betrayal doesn't just go away because you divorce. And the pain, guilt, and shame you feel doesn't go away just from divorcing either. To fully recover from the betrayals and sin, you both must walk a road to healing...maybe together, maybe not. But neither one of you can get past this without doing serious work to heal.

I agree with the others here that the best thing you can do is stay focused on helping your husband. No doubt, if you stay married you will need to eventually deal with the betrayal you suffered. But right now, the fresh wound that needs tending was caused from your and OM's affair.

Great post, SMB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Call her in a week to offer an apology .... do this with a humble heart. Do not expect forgiveness. Apologize anyway. It's good for you to apologize.

Adultery is so very damaging ... I hate it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Brook,

You are very, very brave!

You have taken the high road and done the right thing.

It is so very easy for us to tell one what they should do but that person is the one digging way down deep for the strength to stand there alone and confess, and that is very hard to do.

I commend you on your courage, your strength, and your commitment to the right path. Hunker down and wait out the storm. I hope and pray that you will feel stronger, and things will start to get better as they sort themselves out.

You must be feeling at least a little relief, we hope.

Stay strong and take care of yourself.

kirk

Brooke,

I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to confess. It took a great deal of courage to do so. My FWH never had the opportunity to confess because I discovered his already over affair on my own.

I know that he would have eventually confessed and that he would have gone thru the same torment that you did working up his nerve.

Even after all this time, I still wish that he would have ended the affair and confessed as soon as he realized what a terrible mistake he had made. Instead, he let OW hold him hostage with threats to expose the affair to me for a full 3 more months.

Don't give up on your marriage just yet. We BS find ourselves much more willing to forgive and move on to recover our marriages than we would have ever imagined, especially when our FWS shows true remorse and desire to recover.

Hang in there.

Who

Just an update. He FINALLY came home. He was very calm but if looks could kill I would be dead right now. He asked some questions like how long did it go on and if I did it out of revenge. He asked if I had slept with any other friends of his. He said that he could have forgiven my affair if it had been with a stranger or aquaintence of his. He really tore into me how he had tried to make this marriage work all by himself since his second d-day and I have contributed nothing except to make things 1000x worse.

I told him that I was willing to try now. He said "too little too late". He said after I exposed his affair that me and a lot of other people treated him like he was garbage. He got very smug and said that was about to change.

He then asked me if xOM was going to represent me in our divorce. I knew that one was coming. He was really trying to get his digs in. xOM does not even specialize in family law and neither does H. I told him he found out 2 days ago and asked him not to make any sudden decisions. He told me I was insane if I though this could work. He menioned that our marriage was fast approaching the 10 year mark and that would entitle me to a bigger settlement if he did not file now.

I told him I would sign a postnuptial agreement. He smugly said he would write one up tonight and I could have xOM look it over to make sure I was not getting screwed and then he could screw me. He said he was going to go play golf and he would be back whenever and not to bother him with my pathetic text messages. He also said he has a bet with himself that I will be back in xOM's bed by the end of the month. He slammed the door and left.

I am going to call this conversation productive. I might have been able to stall a potential divorce by offering to sign a postnuptial agreement. He also did not throw me out and he said he would be back when he was done golfing. There was so much sarcasm coming from him I cannot be sure.

used to mask his pain and his shame

Hi Brooke,

ok, so that could of gone better BUT it could of gone worse!! I hope you answered all his questions without commenting on his tone of voice. what you are judging to be "smug" is just a mask as pepperband said.

He is hurt Brooke. He is very very hurt. Just keep telling yourself that over and over. Do not let his words cut you too deep, forgive him, every hurtful word he says right now.

remember your goal right now is to make ammends. That is what your actions need to show.

that said, i'm so sorry for your pain. it will get better. one way or another. you have still done the right thing.

give him time and patience.

let your pain out here, we will listen, we care.

{{{hugs to you.}}}

Brooke,

It took a great deal of courage to confess your mistakes to your BH. He is understandably livid with you at this point. He is in shock and totally devastated inside. You may still have a chance to recover your M, but you have painted yourself into a corner that you cannot get out of easily. You are going to have a lot of work to do to save your M. Your only concern right now should be that you be sympathetic to your BH as you possibly can be. I know that he had an A too, but to have a revenge A with the man's childhood best friend was very cruel. What you do from this point foward will determine whether or not your M can be saved. There are plenty of wonderful people here who will help you all they can to repair the damage your actions have caused. This doesn't have to be the defining moment in your life.

You are not defined in life by the mistakes you make. It's what you do after you realize you made a mistake that defines you. You have a chance to do just that. The choice will be yours. Just as the CHOICE was yours to have an A with your BH's best friend. Prayers to your BH and you.

Want2Stay

Brooke. I am happy that you told your H the truth. It will mean a lot for your personal recovery.
That being said, I sincerely doubt that your M stands much of a survival chance. Your choice of affair partner most likely has driven the final nail into that coffin. I would say the chance of any man dealing with that type of betrayal and wanting to recover his marriage is slim. Couple that with your H's affair and most likely things are done.
If you guys do not have children, I would suggest that you both cut your losses and start anew. Obviously only you can decide what is best...but some marriages cannot and should not be saved.

Brooke,

anything is possible!!! you hold on to that thought right now. you having hope will help your husband no matter what the outcome, i am sure of this.

personally, i think that you making the decision to cut your losses and start over at this point in time would be very hurtful to your BH. if he wants to make that decision so be it, but right now, you need to stand by him!

hang in there Brooke.

Hi Brooke---

It's great marriagebuilding advice here---you have to tell your husband, but then you might as well divorce because your marriage shouldn't be saved. Amateur hour...

I'm all for truth---but as JL mentioned, it should have been done in a much more controlled environment. I'd call the Harley's (888-639-1639) and get some counseling. Offer your husband the opportunity to work with you. Without a real plan in place, you're gonna be in deep trouble. You're obviously not romantically in love with your husband, and he's probably in the same state as you. You two need to work with a professional who is interested in putting your marriage first.

Good luck.

FLTH is right...anything is possible. It isn't probable or likely...but only you two can make the decision to continue or not. Again, if you don't have kids, it is probably best to start anew...but your opinions are what will count.

It's called reality K. Even the doctor might suggest that absent children they go their separate ways after three affairs. The reality of the situation is that honesty was important so that the BS can make his educated decisions. Reality is, most men...I know not you...would never tolerate an affair with their best friend.

K - thanks for saying that.

you pegged it:

Brooke is told... you must confess

and now that she has... cut your losses, it's hopeless.

i did report the post, not sure if any action will be taken or not.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

you may not have liked what I said...but I certainly did not violate the terms of service by offering an opinion.

There seems to be a need for you to control what is said on this site.....you got shut down for it twice recently. I suggest you offer your view and let others do the same. In the end, it comes down to the poster and her BH as to what they want to do. I gave a perspective and it is more likely to come to that than not.

I don't think there's a site requirement for posting only good advice, Finally.

MEDC---the reality is that Brooke apparently was pushed into doing something that would normally have been done with much more care if she had been in coaching with the Harley's. This is a Marriage Building site---it's not to be used to promote divorce.

Thanks for your opinion K. Since the good doctor also advises divorce in some cases, I am really not at all concerned with your perspective.

I am not a marriage at all costs type of person K. I know we differ on that...but I will never subscribe to your line of thinking.

Nor should you be. But I am posting to Brooke, and I think it's important that she be given reasonable Marriage Building advice, as opposed to some what you were giving her. Harley will recommend divorce AFTER efforts have been exhaustively pursued, not as a first pass reaction.

************edit***********

Brooke
many prayers my sister...what i would hope you do is
relax..take good care of you..rest and MAKE NO judgements about your marriage or your life...let the storm settle down..
focus on YOUR happiness and your Husband's happiness
get YOUR life in order..this will take professional counseling and TIME...
Life is about making CHOICES and LIVING with our choices
you can do it..but GO SLOW my sister
and god speed
jb

FLTH,

MEDC has a right to his opinions, just as anyone on this forum does. He didn't suggest that her situation was hopeless. He is spot on with his assement. There is a level of betrayal here that no matter what Brooke does from this point on it may not make a difference. That was by her CHOICE in having an A with her BH's best friend.

Brooke,

This is going to take an extreme amount of humbleness on your part. You made a very bad mistake and there are no guarantees that the advice you will be given here will be able to repair the damage. I encourage you to do everything you can to be there for your BH. There is always still hope in even the most dire situations.

Want2Stay

Brooke,

""I am going to call this conversation productive.""

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> AWESOME!! Love your positive attitude.

Hopefully he shoots a good score at the golf course..

Somewhere down the line he will realize that you did the courageous and honorable thing by telling him.

He is really going into the petulant little boy mode right now, which, again no one can blame him for. Let him rant and rave and yell and scream. Hang your head and agree.

A No Contact letter to the OM couldn't hurt if that is what you decide.

Hang in there. Plan A like there is no tomorrow!!

kirk

brooke
the above said.. i hope you recognize the hurt you have given to the famlies involved..you need to look at your motivations for choosing H best friend.. and you need to realize how wraped the om is to have done this to a close friend
and i hope your husband realizes the character of his
"best" friend..who stabbed H in the back.
and I hope you realize the deep hurt you have caused your husband..
i hope both you and you husband discover what is best for both of you....and DO that..
pick a therapist who starts with the premise of discovering and DOING what is BEST
NOT "how do we save this marriage" or "just throw the bum out"
IF you want to save the marrige
just tell your H
and then leave him alone
right now BOTH of you are wounded and in self protect mode
be sensitive to his needs right now
right now he needs RESPECT.. and understandiung
.. soon BOTH of you will need it also

and i hope you have learned how deeply men can be hurt
jb

My perspective on MEDC's perspective: It is his own...I believe that he is saying that HE would not choose to recover under the same circumstances as Brooke and her husband...And that is more than okay, imo...

MEDC has said the same about Mr. W and I...That he personally would not have chosen to recover with me-I don't fault him for that at all...Many other people may have felt the same way...What was important to ME, was Mr. W's take on our situation...His was the only opinion that really mattered after all...

It is my belief that each couple is different...Couples usually come here via the same tragedy: infidelity...BUT, each comes with their own set of circumstances, as well as their own various worldviews...There really is uniqueness to each situation...No one knows if anyone that comes here can or will recover their marriage...We all have opinions, and the right to those obviously...

I very much agree that no major decisions should be made by Brooke at this time...Just gotta wait and see...

Brooke, I applaud you for doing the right thing...

Mrs. W

You would be right Mrs. W. I can also say that while I would NOT have chosen to recover based on some things that happened with you and Mr. W...it would have been my loss as you are obviously one terrific wife.

I just don't believe from what i know about men that most spouses would choose to recover from an affair with a best friend. As i said, couple that with two other affairs and no children (if I am right about that) and I think a fresh start might be in order. But as i said....that is really up to the couple here.

Terms of Service... i had the opportunity to look it up just this morning....

the key sentence is this: "you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."

it's left to be a subjective thing, however, i feel the comments fall into the category of abusive and possibley almost even hateful. and so i reported it. my right.

lol

FWIW, I happen to agree with MEDC's perspective on this one ... the recovery odds will be very long.

Brooke,

Considering the position you put yourself in, you've done about as well as could be expected ... in effect, by confessing to your BH, rather than going directly to Plan D, you have made your choice to attempt R. Now the ball is squarely in your BH's court ... no one would blame him if he went straight to Plan FU, but based on your confession, you are seeking a glimmer of hope.

The only advice that I can offer is should your BH want to even "think" about R, you should be prepared with a grand gesture to show how serious you are about trying to save your M. I think while he is golfing, I would look up sample NC letters here and have the best one you can put together and ready to present to him for his approval should he decide to "try".

He is already betting against you being able to stay away from the OM ... make a written pledge to him in the form of a GREAT NC letter that you intend to do just that.

I believe it will help him deal with this if he sees some positive ACTION coming from you.

Brooke...you rock! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You have done something so few WS's would dream of doing...you took responsibility for your actions and took the high road.

No matter what happens, you now see you have the courage to do the difficult, the hard, the unpleasant, and have the fortitude to bear the burden of your own actions...

(((((((Brooke)))))))))

Yes this will be hard...but PLEASE don't start making plans for your future divorce just yet, pessimistic projections from some senior posters aside.

The "reality" of your M depends on you and your H, and is something only you know.

What you're doing takes patience...and it's only been a few short hours/days since DDay...your BS's DDay.

Many ugly things will be said...feelings are high...acting on feelings alone is a slippery slope.

I wholeheartedly agree that you get a session soonest w/ the Harleys...they are the de facto experts on MB principles and they will NOT steer you wrong.

I wish you the best of luck and continued stength!!!

L2F

Hey Brooke,

As mentioned, I, too, HIGHLY suggest you call the Harley's for counseling. Please realize that THEY are experts in recovering from infidelity; the average counselor is NOT.

One thing that really impacted me was my FWH's desire to counsel with "the best". If you consider the cost too expensive, I would ask if you would say the same about hiring a divorce lawyer.

I hope you'll call the Harley's.

Brooke,

Call the Harley's. They are outstanding and you will not be able to recover the marriage without help.

mkeverydaycnt

I am trying to remain hopeful and be realistic at the same time. Every single person that knows me off this board has told me to cut my losses, file for divorce and move on. Every single one. No one sees any hope. I am still going to try. I am going to see a professional. A coworker/friend gave me the card of her marriage counselor way back when I was dealing with my H's affair. I remember at the time she told me she was very good. Maybe I am too late but I will try anyway.

jerseyboy,

Why did I pick my H's best friend? I am not trying to make excuses. I am only giving some history. In May 2007 I lost MY best friend in a car accident which is also xOM's sister. This devastated everyone. There are many people I could have gone too for comfort including my H but I chose xOM. We consoled each other and grieved. He was the only person that could make me feel better. I would call him or vice versa every day. Our feelings changed for each other and by October we were involved in a full blown affair.

We knew what we were doing was wrong. By February we both realized neither of us could go on betraying H like we were so we ended it for good.

Brooke...if you are going to try...call the Harley's. This is their speciality.

It's interesting how those on the "outside" of MB can be so full of advice...hurtful, self-serving and ignorant advice.

Not one of your well-meaning friends will have to walk in your shoes after this thing comes crashing down due to lack of love or care.

Optimisim and commitment are not currently "in vogue" in our society, and "getting the other guy before he gets you" is the order of the day.



Good for you!

In the end, you're the only one who has to live with the consequences of your choices...if it's right, you'll know.

L2F

Brooke,

I want to tell you something that may surprise you. It will certainly not be any comfort but I am hoping that ultimately the "good" that you are NOW doing will come back your way.

After I confronted my H about his affair, I berated him for days. If I could have left HIM and gone somewhere I would have. I said the same KINDS of things your H has said. I told him that he was such a liar that I knew he had f***** the OW more times than he could remember and that I was sure he would be back with her as soon as he could be. I went on and on and on. I'm not really sorry I did that either.

But.....I realize now that he was and IS remorseful. Just like I believe from what you write that your A is actually over, I know that his A is over and that he has been truthful with me about NC. YOUR words have helped me see that.

We have had some problems in recovery and I am still very concerned about the direction we are going, but I believe now that he has told me the truth and I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD!!!!! Please believe me when I say that I consider this to be nothing short of a miracle in my heart. I can not explain it.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your transparency with US and for sharing this MOST agonizing time. You have given me a look into my FWH's heart and it has made a difference.

There is a terrible price to pay for adultery and the two of you are paying big time. Don't run from from the consequences. Call the Harleys.

God CAN fix anything. Miracles DO happen.

Again, thank you
WH2LE

Brooke
I haven't posted to you before. But I wanted to send my support. You did a very brave thing by confessing. And by doing so you gave your M a chance.


Now hang back...and wait.

Your BH is reeling with pain. You've been there, you know.

Show your remorse. Show your desire to recover. Expect his anger. Stay calm.

Brooke,

When I found out, my first words to my husband were:

I HATE YOU.

I told him that over and over. That I hated him. I berated him.

I hit him on the leg (then he looked at me, and laughed, because I can't really hit because my arm is messed up, and he just laughed and I also laughed...it was stupid, but there it was). But IF my arm was not messed up, I might have hurt him.

And I stormed around. Slammed doors. Cried in anguish. Screamed at the night.

Tried to push myself under the bed to hide from the pain. Tried to hide in the dark, in the closet, to be away from everything, everyone.

Cried in pain.

Fell to the floor in desperation and devastation, my life seemingly over.

I hated him. I told him that he "killed me". I asked him why he didn't just take a knife and stab me. I begged him to just do that, it was the equivalent of what he had done anyway, and that I wished for death over the torture of knowing what he had done to me, to us.

I
hated
him.

And yet, I begged him to please love me.

This is complicated, this thing, love.


So, while your husband is storming around, claiming it is over........

why then

is he out fighting for you?


Because he is on the rollercoaster.

Wait for the ride to slow down, Brooke. You remember this ride, don't you?

Give him some time. You need to be the stable one, for a little while.

You can only control one person in this relationship, and if you do a good job of that right now, your chances are better for recovery.

Do the work of recovery.

Call the Harleys. Tell him you have done that. They have the expertise you need, because I don't think there really are many other counselors out there who would know what to do for your particular difficult situation.

Write the no-contact letter. Be sure that it is very clear that you NEVER want to contact the OM again. Make this the strongest letter you have ever written, because your marriage depends on it.

And be steadfast in accepting the blame for your affair. There will be time to begin working on the marital problems soon enough. Your H needs to get over the initial shock for now. Give him the time for that, and get in contact with the Harleys. Emphasize to your H that you have been learning about effective ways to save the marriage and relationship, and that you DO believe in HIM, in the marriage, and in love.

And hang in there. You did the right thing, whether or not this marriage makes it.

SB

have you seen examples of a no contact letter.

I could not find an example but here is what a NC letter is as described by an article on this site:

(http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html)


Can anyone else post an example letter?

Ok Brooke,

Let's look at what he told you. I have no idea if this marriage will make it, but I do see some things in his comments that you need to think about. Some of them seem pretty positive with regards to being able to address them.


Ok, let's start with the last statement. Based on what you have told us this is a true statement and you need to admit it. Further, it made you vulnerable to have an affair. There is an old saying
You had resentment, you took the poison and now your marriage is in real trouble if it wasn't already.

But notice the first part of what he asked you and then said. Was it for revenge? Based on what you have said it was not and it was triggered by the loss of your friend exOM's sister. He needs to hear this from you. He needs to understand that this is a reason NOT an excuse. He said he could have accepted it if it was someone else, but the reality is betrayal is betrayal. You betrayed your H and your marriage no matter who you had the affair with. His best friend betray his friend, your H, by his choice to be the one to have the affair with you.

What you see in this first quote from him is his resentment for doing something very hard, trying to recover the marriage and make amends for his failures and having you do nothing to help him. I don't know if you did nothing, however you have stated you did little. Now it is the other way around. Do you have a plan to not have repeated what has already happened? If not you need to talk to the Harleys.


You see the trouble with revenge is that it has a habit of coming around and getting us. That is why Harley developed the plans that he did. Notice revenge, speaking harshly, treating the WS badly are NOT part of his plan? You are going to need help to over come his resentment at you not trying and then having the affair.

That is a bet he is going to lose isn't it Brooke? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ASk him if you can have part of the action and you want the no bed side of it big time.

Oh, he will be back Brooke and you will hear more sarcasm and you will hear it for a long time. However, I believe it was Pep that said he is covering his pain.

I would strongly recommend that you acknowledge his pain. Not just of the betrayal, but the pain he faced when you and others treated him like garbage, yet he kept trying to rebuild. The pain of you not seeming to care and yet he kept trying.

If you can bring yourself to acknowledge what he HAS done that was good, it may not be "too little too late". But, it will take a long time.

Don't promise him anything right now, not postnup, not leaving, not staying. Promise him that you will seek the best advice you can find (again I suggest the Harleys) to try and heal the wounds in this marriage.

You will hear more, you will hear worse, but give this time and patience. You going to be amazed at what you learn and how it strengths you for your future. Don't try to get OVER this, make sure you get THROUGH it.

This marriage may well end but if it does make sure YOU get the full measure of knowledge you can. Make sure you can truthfully say you did your best and after giving it time and patience, whatever decision you make you will know it was the best you can do.

Your H may not give you that chance, but once he cools down and once he can start to hear what you have to say, I suspect you might get the chance.

This is tough stuff Brooke, but he will come to understand that your honesty with regard to telling him was a gift to him. He needs time.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

I'm thinking, from a BS point of view, that her offer of a post-nup was brilliant and reasonable. I think it would make her husband feel safe. It can be along the lines of....if she ever cheats again, she loses everything or maybe 70/30, or something like that.

I also think if she wants this marriage, she needs to be 100% committed and tell him so. He needs to feel safe that you will stick through the hard work of recovery.

H told me that he wants to talk to me an OM together. I told him that was a very bad idea. I asked what if they fought again. He said that would not happen and he will never fight over me again. I told him I could not do that. He told me I can and I will do it.

No good can come from this. I finally stopped having that throw up feeling and now it has come back. He texted xOM and said he wanted us to meet and he replied that he would come. What the ****** is OM thinking?? H told me if I did not show up it would prove to him I had something to hide. He then told me to cheer up because I would be seeing my lover tomorrow. I knew he would have lots of questions but I did not think he would want to question or maybe cuss us out together??? I am not even sure what H has in mind.

Brooke,

For marriages, there's a rule called the Policy of Joint Agreement---never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse. If you were following that, you wouldn't have had this affair. Your husband wouldn't have had his.

I'd suggest printing this out, and tell your husband that you are far from enthusiastic about his current plans. That you'll consider negotiating this---but in a way that at least makes you feel safe. I'd want to know what his plan is before hand, and I would want this to happen in a safe environment---in front of a counselor, or in front of your families (even). Until you two can come to terms, I wouldn't do this---it's bad for your marriage, and potentially bad for your safety.

As others have already said, I think the three of you meeting together like that, particularly with your H in the state of mind that he currently is, is a very bad idea. I would suggest not doing it. Perhaps you could offer to do a 3-way call instead, but even that I might try to avoid at this point.

Brooke28

I would tell BH your sorry for what you did and the pain he is in. Tell him that you will always be there to answer any questions he may have as many times as he needs to hear your answers. He can do what he needs to verify the truth.
You have started NC with the OM and refuse to break it for any reason.

If BS tries to force it refuse. They show up at the house, go inside. They enter the house get in your car an leave for your parents then come back after the OM is gone. Keep telling your BH that you will not break NC ever.
If BH tries to block the door to prevent you from leaving call 911. You must start and stick to NC. In the long run your commitment to NC will help your BH.

Do not participate in this three way confrontation.
Tell the BS that the OM has no motivation to tell the truth.
His only motivation will be ale to say what ever he can to hurt BS as much as he can. That the OM will only use this as an opportunity to cause further hurt shows that the OM was never a friend. You are remorseful the OM just wants to be able to rub it some more into your BH's face. A friend would not rub in his face the fact that he bedded his friends wife every chance he can get.

Brooke, I don't think you have much of a position to negotiate here. I would however offer to your H some alternatives to this potentially explosive situation.
Tell him that you are willing to submit to a polygraph which will assure him that you are not hiding anything. This will allow you to remain in NC and he will get the answers that he needs.

I would also suggest that you NOT do a post nup right now. If your H had not had affairs, I would suggest doing this immediately. But he has and frankly he is not entitled to the type of protection that a BS would normally get from a post nup. Neither one of you are innocents here.

I understand your H wanting to have the face to face. I also understand the OM agreeing to it. No matter what happened...they were friends and your H wants answers that he feels he will only get face to face. Someone here suggested the Policy of Joint Agreement...that is laughable at this stage since your H has not agreed to that concept. Find an alternative that will satisfy your H's need for information. If he insists on this meeting taking place, I would do so under one condition...the meeting would need to take place in a controlled environment: a therapists office is a good choice. If it can be avoided all together, that would be best.

Brooke,

I said terrible things to my FWH on d-day and continued to for sometime afterward when I couldn't get a grip on my pain.

Don't put too much into it at this point. For each and every one of we BS, I think that is one particular element of our WS's affair that really sticks in our craw. For your BH, it is that both you and his BF betrayed him.

For me it was that even more than a month after my FWH started trying to end the A, he still allowed the OW to set up a romantic weekend at a B&B that included our anniversary.

Even now, I hate seeing the name of the town nearby where they went.

Who

I hope you won't allow that to discourage you.

Many people don't understand how to heal or recover from infidelity.

What you have done (telling your husband), was the first step towards personal and/or marital healing.

This is the KEY point right here. NOTHING good can come from a meeting with the three of you - especially with your H still so angry.

Whoever suggested that you tell your H that you will NOT, under any circumstances, break No Contact with the OM, had the right idea. There are other ways for your H to make sure you are telling the truth.

It's actually a little painful for me to read your thread....my exH and I went through a very similar situation. In fact, it's all posted on here. JL will know what I'm talking about <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> I can only imagine the humiliating, disgusting, and warped things my exH would have made me do if me, xOM, and exH were to meet together. He was so angry....and I don't blame him at all.

There are two types of recovery from affairs - recovery of the marriage, and recovery of the individuals. Recovery of the marriage requires two willing participants. Recovery of the individual is something that only that person can do. You guys will need time and counseling to see if you can (and want to) recover your M. But you can start working on your own recovery right now. More than anything else, it involves LEARNING - about who you are, why you made the choice to have the A, what your role in the degradation of your M was, and where you will go from here.

If you do that, then no matter what happens to your M, you will be OK.

That being said, I want to speak from the perspective of a FWS who found out that during 'recovery' my exH was having an A of his own. He did not confess, but I found out through his email.

Most of my anger stemmed from the perspective that my exH had taken the 'high and mighty' road after my A. I was called all kinds of names (wh*re, a sl*t who would spread her legs for anyone, c*#% who would f*%# anyone, just to name a few). I had objects thrown at me, was kicked out of the bed.....

And you know what? I deserved every bit of the anger he felt toward me. Perhaps not in the way he expressed it, but that was all he knew back then.

So when I discovered that while he was STILL saying those things to me, had stopped working on the M, had accused me of ruining his life and our M....that HE was having his own A???? I was REALLY angry. I understood how it could happen. But at that time, he was the hypocrite of the YEAR!

How dare he say those things to me, and yet be doing the same thing himself? How dare he make everything my fault, and be committing the same crime I did??? How DARE he berate me to our friends, and then save his own image when he was doing the SAME THING?!?!?!

I was angry, hurt, betrayed, and did I say angry???? Every emotion that he had felt toward me.

The difference in our stories starts where you confessed your A, and my H refused to acknowledge his. At least until 4 months later when it ended, we had already begun divorce proceedings, and for the first time, we started to 'talk' about what went wrong in our M.

Our M didn't make it. But, eventually, we helped each other in our recovery. We spoke honestly, openly, and we each felt great remorse for our A's and also the failure of our M. Once the anger had subsided, we were able to meet once a week, and really 'hear' each other for the first time in our lives.

Our M wasn't meant to make it. I understand and accept that now. I wanted it to....but we don't always get what we want, do we <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

But there is a 'happily ever after' to the story...at least for me. I finally like myself. I never did before my A...and it was dang hard after my A. But I know now that having my A was a horrible, terrible, destructive thing. But it doesn't make me a horrible person. It makes me human. And the same thing goes for my exH.

We still love each other, and we always will. We still meet occasionally, and catch up (although those times are getting fewer and farther between). But FINALLY, we respect each other again.

It's been nearly 5 years since my A (wow....). At the start, it was a LONG and HARD road. But now we both see my A as a blessing in disguise - and his, too. Because they made us look at who we really were - and realize that we didn't like who we had become.

And then we had the opportunity of a lifetime....we had the blessing to LEARN.

Hang tight. Be honest. Don't do things out of guilt, if you know they will be unproductive (like this meeting with xOM and your H). Focus on yourself. Get the book "After the Affair" and read, read, read. Post here often. Whenever you need to. Reach out to everyone here. Now that you've joined the ranks of the BS/WS, you may hear some harsh things. But learn from them. Remember that whenever you feel like running away, THAT's the time that you really need to look into yourself.

Many hugs, Brooke. You did a VERY honorable thing. If nothing else, hold onto that. It took courage, heart, and strength to choose the hard road. But you HAVE given him a gift. It's not much...and it hurts horribly right now. But you gave a little bit of the honesty and respect that you took when you had your own A. THAT's not easy.

Wishing you the best of luck.

Froz,

Great quote!

Good Morning Brooke,

The good news is your BH is struggling. If he had no feelings for you, he would of packed up and never looked back. He said "he could have forgiven my affair if it had been with a stranger or aquaintence of his." to me, this looks like him struggling. Deep down I believe he wants to forgive you. Give him time to find a way.

regarding the meeting. I'm with the others, if it's going to happen it must happen in a controlled environment with another qualified person.

really the best thing you can do is call the Harleys. Have you looked into that? Even without your BH on board. You can start to work with them on your own. There is a link at the top of the page, "Counseling Center". All the counseling is done on the phone. Please consider getting help. I know you mentioned someone gave you a name, obviously we can give you no opinion on that specific person but many of us know the horrors of working with someone not really qualified to handle this. The Harley's are very qualified.

My vote is for no meeting between the three of you. It makes no sense and don't you think seeing you and OM sitting there in front of him will make things 10x worse in his mind (and imagination)? I think it's just too volatile of a situation and the potential for disaster is too great.

hey brooke, I just saw this posted on a different thread.

example NC letter, wrong genders but you get the idea:

Dr. Harley's letter from Surviving an Affair: [from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Brooke.
get professonal advice asap...
this process is moving way to fast..
NO MEETUP at this time..get advice on how to handle this No CONTACT thing..but dont have the meeting just yet.. your H us way to angry and out of control..
get some spousal support from the state or the cops or someone who can protect you and help you..
slow this thing down..
your H is out of control emotionally...
and there is a lot going on inside him.. get a professional to explain it all to you.. DONT GO IT ALONE..
and ref your marriage..once again.. dont make any long term decisions..yet
take time
JB

What do you propose the cops or state do?

There is NO reason for either to intervene at this point.

We would laugh about people that call us for such things. I saw a mouse, my husband yelled at me, the cables out. The police are there to enforce the law...not to mediate marital troubles or offer spousal support. Frankly, it isn't their job.

Don't give up hope. In my book, your affair fell under "revenge" affair. A bad move, but your DH will know that in his heart.

Best friend? He is more likely to hate him forever than you. Again, a bad move.

But telling DH? I do think it was the right thing to do. He may suspect you told him just to hurt him, but I don't think your approach was like that, and eventually he will realize you didn't do it for this purpose.

If he stays with you now and loves you now, it will be based on the truth with eyes wide open.

Don't meet with them. As, you stated nothing good can come out of it.

Continue to take the high road and stay out of bad situations as only bad can come from them.

You did the right thing by telling him. Keep doing more of the right thing.

opps.MEDC
buy state i meant social services.. i want brooke to feel supported NOW.. and not to wait for a therapist appointment..
her husband is pressing her to fast.. everyone needs to cool down and slow down..H..om.. family..mom in law
jb

About the whole MC thing. I have already made an appointment. I am sure the Harley's are the best but I will be honest telephone counseling I am not comfortable with. She comes highly recommended from a friend (her H had an affair) and she is very pro marriage and being open about everything. Best of all where my H is concerned *if* he decides to join me she will leave God and the Bible out of it according to my friend. That is VERY important where H is concerned. It's gotten to the point I pity whatever religious organization knocks on our door.

I told H I would not meet with him and xOM. He told me I was a coward. I said if it was in a controlled environment I would do it at a later time when he is more calm. He told me he could not make me do it but I owed it to him. He was like fine don't but you will face my family the same way you made me face yours. I told him I would do that. He then said I owed them an apoloogy for F**cking his best friend. He said he wanted my brother there. He has some things he would like to say to him.

So I called my brother and he said he would come but he did not see the point. He said he did not give a ****** what they thought of him but he would not stand my and let me get railroaded. I told him I was a big girl and could take care of myself. So anyway H's family is coming to dinner tonight. I am dreading it but at the same time I want to get it over and done with.

So I am thinking that they want to put my brother and I on trial tonight??

Yes Brooke, very humbly apologize to them...Give no excuses, just a sincere apology for hurting their son and them...

Your brother should offer the same...your husband feels betrayed by him too...

Mrs. W

Did you make your H face your family as soon as you found out about your H's A? Were they terribly hard on him? Did you make H see you with his ow so you could confront them both at the same time?

Golly, seems like things are going awfully fast and not enough time for anyone to step back and think before they react. I would think things need to cool off a bit. Hope you can get thru tonight okay.

I know you have really hurt H, but it seems to me he might be more understanding now that he's feeling like you were when he had an A. I am not excusing your having an A, and we don't really know your history of what happened during your H's A.

Well, you have a lot of courage to have admitted everything, and I wish you the best.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Brooke, humility will go a very long way with your in-laws. They were also hurt by the affair, and want to see that you are sorry and won't hurt their son anymore. My H is great friends with my family today because he apologized and assured them he would not hurt me again. That is all they want.

Your brother may not realize it, but he became an accessory to the crime when he encouraged you to keep this a secret. He seems to have alot of anger at your H, and I can understand that, but your H did not deserve this betrayal. His affair does not justify yours. Nothing does. Your brothers attitude is not helpful, IMO.

Brooke, I know this is tough, but it would be much harder if you didn't face it head on like you are doing. You honor yourself and restore your dignity by taking accountability for your actions and standing tall. Its hard today, but by facing the tough stuff now, you resolve it more quickly and restore your honor. Hang in there, Brooke. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

p.s. I also think you were wise to avoid your H's suggestion to meet with he and the OM. No good could have come of that.

Brooke, I just wanted to offer you LUCK on the dinner tonight. While it may be one of the hardest things you ever go through, I truly believe you will walk away from it a stronger person. Every time you humble yourself and own your mistakes without blaming others, you are taking back some of your integrity as a person. You will also begin (a little at a time) to restore the respect and love your H once had for you.

Whether it is enough to recover the M is actually irrelevant right now now, second to simply DOING THE RIGHT THING. If you ran away now and never looked back, you would be escaping NOTHING. I hope your H can find the strength to give your M another try, but if he doesn't, everything you deal with now in this process will make you a better person moving forward.

((((Brook))))

Ditto.


Brooke,

Your actions are proving your true remorse. Your actions matter so much, along with your attitude.

Stay humble tonight, even if you feel attacked. Stay calm, and humble.

brooke,

I absolutely agree with all of the above.

Humble is very good.

Great posts Melodylane!!! You are so right on it is uncanny!!!

Good luck tonight Brooke.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hi Brooke,

yup, i vote for calm and humble too. your in-laws do deserve an apology.

this concerns me regarding your brother: "he would not stand by and let me get railroaded". I know your brother must love you very much and he does not want to see his sister hurt, HOWVER, Please ask him to stand by you in humility too!!! It will not help you if he tries to defend you. Please ask him, for your sake, to just quietly accept whatever is said tonight. Explain to him that is the best way for him to show you his love tonight. This is a time for making ammends, not confrontation.

I will be praying for you throughout the evening.

Brooke,

I would advise this approach:

Ask them to sit before you begin dinner.

Tell them YOU have something to say.

Then give them a speech along these lines, so you can apologize, tell them what you are learning, that you feel you want to recover the marriage, and that you want THEIR FORGIVENESS AND SUPPORT because you NEED THEIR HELP. People support what they are a part of - so recruit them to help you. And, take the blame yourself, so they are not in any position to do it for you.


"I want to tell you that I offer my deepest apologies for what I have done. Nothing I can say is good enough, I know, for what I did to hurt you and my husband. I was stupid and selfish, and not thinking about anything but myself. I've dishonored my marriage, and done something that I know will take years of work to repair.

I hope that somehow you will someday find it in your hearts to find a way to forgive me. To even ask that today, I know is probably too much to ask, but if you would consider that someday, I would ask you to do that much.

I have done a lot of soul-searching over the last few weeks, and one thing I think I have done right so far is to confess the affair. I think that whether or not my husband and I are able to repair and recover our marriage, the fact that the truth is out is important, and it was right that I no longer hid the truth from him and everyone. It was hard, but to continue to lie was very wrong - I had to begin a path of healing our marriage, and we could not do that based on lies.

So I stand here before you asking forgiveness, patience, and support. I know that is a lot to ask. I have learned many things so far in this ordeal, and have many more to learn. One thing I have learned is that if our marriage is to survive, we will need support from our families. I also learned that we need to be honest about what has happened, so we can build our marriage on the truth.

I plan to be honest with him about what happened, and I plan to go to marital counseling. I plan to work on the problems in the marriage that have led both of us to be unfaithful, because another thing I have learned is that we need to work on the foundation of our marriage, if we are going to have a chance to save it.

I want to save it, because I believe we both do love one another - even though I haven't behaved that way.

Please consider forgiving me. Please consider supporting our marriage, and helping us on the road to healing."



Then, let them talk.

If they bring up your brother, you can say something along the lines of "I unfortunately brought my brother in on something I never should have done. He feels the need to defend his sister - I hope to help him understand that in this case, I WAS WRONG."

SB, great post... i would change one thing... i would not go anywhere near recalling the fact that her DH was unfaithful too. not today anyway.

which just means scratching the phrase "that have led both of us to be unfaithful" and just leave it at "working on the problems in the marriage"

of course, Brooke may not end up seeing any of this until after the dinner.

Brooke, i hope you are doing ok!!

Brooke, Like many others here, I am thinking of you and praying for you on this tough road.

You have grabbed the admiration of many.

You have great courage.

You can stay the course.

Still praying for you Brooke. I hope your evening went ok and you are able to get some good rest tonight.

You guys it was a disaster. It has taken me this long to get my composure. I no longer have any hope on salvaging the marriage. H invited xOM to come to the house after his family left. He looked at me like he was proud or something of being able to pull a fast one like that. I asked xOM what in the ****** was he thinking coming and he said that H really pushed hard for him to come and he said given the circumstances it was the least he could do.

He grilled the both of us. I could not keep it together and all I could do was cry. He wanted to know everything. When, where, and how often we were together. H was getting angrier by the minute and I finally said enough. He then said he had one last question and he wanted to know if xOM and I were in love. He said he has thought long and hard about that one and the only conclusion he can come too is that xOM had to be in love with me to betray him like that. I told xOM he needed to leave so H and I could talk. xOM got up to leave and H yelled at him to answer him and he said that yes he did love me but we had no future together. He left. I told H I was still very confused about my feelings for xOM and that we just ended the affair 16 days ago. I would need time to get over him and that inviting xOM to the house ruined any progress I might have made. I was so pissed I asked him why, why, why would he invite him to OUR house. He said it was something he had to do and he could not sleep until he confronted the both of us and he has no regrets. In fact bec of it he was able to make a decision about our marriage.


He said it was quite clear that xOM and I are in love and he will not stay married to a woman who is in love with his best friend. He said he was filing for a divorce. I told him it was grief that bonded xOM and I together. He yelled at me to shut up and how dare I bring xOM’s sister into this. He said she would be disgusted with the both of us if she were still alive. I told him if she were still alive we never would have gotten involved. He said maybe not but we did and he cannot trust me where xOM is concerned. He said even if I was not in love with xOM I still am way too attached to him and he will not wait for me to get over xOM. He said only someone with serious self-esteem issues would put themselves through something like that.

He again told me we were over and I would be served with papers by the end of the week. He packed a bag and left. He said he would get the rest of his stuff in a few days when he found a permanent place to live. He said he did not want the house. Right before he left he asked me what it felt like to be alone. He said xOM did not want me anymore and neither did he.

I just feel like leaving town for a few days. I now feel the situation is completely hopeless.

Brooke,
don't do anything yet. Calm down.
The first few days are when everyone is confused! Feelings dominate all actions or inactions.

The first few days do not predict what will happen. Give him time and give yourself time. You have been very brave and have done the right thing. Your H has not seen it like that, but he will, someday, hopefully soon.

Try to take care of yourself. The best I can think of now is Ark's thread on "be still", it's for betrayed spouses but I think it would apply in your case too. I know it's hard, post here, take care of yourself. This isn't over.
Read Pep's thread on violence on d day and you will see that people do and say things that later do not correspond to the outcomes in the long run.

These are very hard moments for everyone.

Brooke

Hang tight. I agree with CC. Your BH is just in a whirlwind. He has a double betrayal to deal with, not just one. His world as he has known it since childhood has crumbled. People aren't who he thought they were.


This is going to take time.

YOU DID THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!

Brooke, i'm so sorry for the way the evening went.

I know it wasn't what you were expecting...but all in all, I would say that based on your H's words, I see a sliver of a chance this could still work out. He has NOT dismissed remaining married because of what has already happened...he is fearful of where your heart is today.

A session with the Harley's might be in order if you can get him to bite. They can explain the dynamics of withdrawal.

I would steer very clear of using his deceased sister as a reason for any of this. What brought you together was a lack of character and integrity. Own that. You can grieve with your pants on...it isn't grief that brought you together. It was two people overstepping what should be very clearly defined boundaries. Until YOU get that, there will be no progress.

The very best piece of advice that I can give you is to give the Harley's a call at 888-639-1639, and tell them you have a urgent issue to discuss with Steve or Jenn, and would like to get into a session as soon as possible. I'd also suggest that you do nothing life-altering at this point.

Steve and Jenn are experts in handling this type of situation. Many of the well-intentioned people on this thread aren't, and you've been given a lot of adivce that isn't going to help you and your husband recover your marriage. It's not that anything is irreparable---but it's going to make the going more difficult.

Give the Harley's a call, and start with a plan. Hopefully your husband will consider joining you. And I'd stay off the boards until you've got things well underway, and understand your path into this.

K, what advice exactly do you believe was not helpful? Everything she was told to do is right out of Marriage Builders, in exact accordance to Dr. Harley's words. Dr. Harley advocates telling the truth to the victim spouse and that is EXACTLY what she did. There is nothing here that was contradictory to MB principles, so why are you criticizing members for giving her advice that is BASED ON Dr. Harley's own teachings? I don't get it..

I have read this thread again and see nothing here that would give me pause, K, so I am little confused about what you think you see that was not appropriate. There is nothing out of line with Marriage Builders principles unless I have missed a post. Please clarify.

Brooke:

Call the Harleys. Start with a PLAN that can be tailored to your sitch and that you can interact with the professionals.

This may be the darkest days of your marriage right now. But you have allowed yourself to be in the light. And that's not a bad place for you to be.

Your WH will understand why you told him.

He WILL regret his actions yesterday.

He is operating from place of pain, and only reacting.

Eventually he will get a grip on his emotions and decide to start recovering his marriage.

Or, he's going to go boink everyone in the neighborhood.

"Because he can NOW!"

Waywards. Ya gotta love em.

But call the Harleys. They can give YOU, YOUR PLAN.

And the are far cheaper than Divorce Attorneys.

LG

Brooke,

Your husband is still whirling. It will takes days/weeks maybe for the utter shock to pass.

It is quite possible that this IS a betrayal he cannot get past. But it is also possible that as the shock diminishes, he may consider saving the marriage.

I think MECD is right in that "where your heart today is" is what your husband was concerned about.

He cannot bare the thought of you loving OM.

Please realize how absolutely essential no contact is. Did you write a NC letter to OM yet. I realize your BS probably will have nothing to do with helping with that letter, but it is still an action that YOU NEED to take.

No matter what happens with your marriage, you cannot ever have a relationship with OM.

Begin to establish a lifestyle that does not let OM in AT ALL. Eliminate the ways that he can contact you...cell number, home number, email, nc letter, avoid places where you might see him. Because of the entwined relationships, this will be a drastic change for you; but a necessary one.

Be sure to give your husband your new phone numbers and email. You can let him know that you changed them to aid in eliminating all contact.

Please know that, right now, he will scoff at anything you do. But do the right things anyway. He will notice, and if he ever reaches a point of considering saving the marriage, it will be these things that will matter and convince him that you are sincere.

I, too, suggest seeking help from the Harleys, with our without your husband.

I agree with K, Brooke. What was missing was having a clear plan BEFORE confessing. JL and a few others suggested doing this with a professional. I know you considered that suggestion and decided it would be best done one-on-one. And I still agree that one-on-one has it's benefits, however, you, as an individual, talking to a professional before confessing might have made a huge difference.

Please please do as K suggests now, i know you have reservations about phone counseling, but please try just one session. Please find a way to afford just one session and then decide. Last I looked one phone session was just under $200. I wish I could pay for the session for you!!

I am very sorry for you but I can understand why your husband is so upset. You had a huge opportunity to help him and your marriage and you let it slip by. He asked you at the end if you are still in love with the OM. Clearly he was begging you to say NO and that you are in love with him and wish to rebuild the marriage with all of your heart and soul. Instead you reply you are confused about your feelings toward the OM and you have only broken up with him 16 days ago? Of course your husband was going to see this as a clear indication that you are still in love with the OM and a slap in the face to him. You didn't say you were in love with your husband.

It was such a huge double betrayal and he was reaching out to you but you totally left him hanging. I don't mean at all to be harsh but how in the world would you expect him to act after what you said and implied? I would think about writing him a long letter at least to tell him you still love him. I really think his feeling that his wife is still in love with his best friend seems quite valid because you have not dissuaded him. All you said is that the affair ended 16 days ago and you are confused. Why would he see comfort in those words at all? I think he saw it as pouring more salt in the wound. Am I wrong?

IMHO, no one needs the Harley's to direct them as to how to tell the truth. A BS has a right to know the truth IMMEDIATELY...not after someone has is able to make a plan. EVERY DAY without the truth is another betrayal.

I often advocate coaching with the Harleys but that is not a requirement for exposing the truth and the Harleys have NEVER EVER claimed any such thing. Nor is there a need to tell someone to call for coaching in order to tell your spouse the truth. Good grief, people.

They write articles and make this forum available for the purpose of doing it on their own. Brooke was given GREAT ADVICE that is right out of Dr. Harley's articles and books here. Not only that, he GIVES us numerous plans of RECOVERY to follow after such an exposure so that is available for Brooke. Others have been giving her advice on a follow up plan anyway, so it makes no sense to say she has no follow up plan.

Many experienced, knowledgable members of this board gave Brooke thoughtful, excellent advice based on Marriage Builders principles. JustLearning, Pepperband, L.I.T., AGoodGuy, and many many others gave her advice that lines right up with MB principles.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the advice given here and I defy anyone to find a legitimate issue with it.

If the Harleys only wanted us to tell ppl to call them for coaching, they could shut the forum down and just put up a notice: call for counseling. Please note that they have not done so.

GREAT post Mel!

One other note..Dr. Harley says in one of his videos...you actually posted the link here...that for those that read his books and follow his advice, they too can be experts at saving marriages. It doesn't require years of counseling with them (and even doing so does not guarantee recovery as evidenced by the Dr's. words and by some posters here with "questionable" recoveries)to be able to offer sound advice.

Telling the truth is sound advice as you have correctly pointed out. There is no need for a coach to advise anyone on how to tell the truth.

Brooke,

I haven't posted to you yet, but have been watching the events unfold.

First off, I commend you on doing the right thing in telling your H. While I know you are second guessing that decision right now, eventually you will come to a place where you will see it was the right thing to do. No matter what happens to your M.

Second, your H reaction so far has been normal. Everything he is saying is out of pain and anger. He loves you very much, otherwise, he would indifferent to all of this.

And yes, the confrontation with the OM was not a good thing, it is over, it is done, it is now in the past. For the most part, it seemed to over better than expected. I mean they could have killed each other right then and there.

Now, about your H. EVeryone is right, just sit back and let him cool off a bit. What he is saying is all anger. When he gets a chance to let the dust of all this settle down, he may change his mind. Now this may take awhile. I'll tell you a story very similiar to your sitch.

My sis had an A this summer. When it ended, she could no longer take the guilt and told her husband. He reacted much in the same way you H has. Now, OM was not the best friend mind you, but it was someone he knew. Anyway, he moved out immediately. He ceased to have any communication with her, except involving the kids. When they did talk, it was not good. He was very mean, hurtful, and callous. If anything, it helped reiterate in her mind why it was ok to have the affair in the first place.

He told her he thought of his future and didn't see a place for her in it. He called her w*&^%,b*&^%, just about everything you could think of. It was bad. He also started to ignore his daughters. Another bad thing. He wasn't paying her any money, partying and drinking at every oppertunity. It honestly looked hopeless. BUT....

then came along MY husbands affair. She saw the pain I was in, the affects it had on me, and the FOG began to lift for HER. She had just started counseling, and then she threw herself full force into changing herself and saving her M. Her husband began to take notice.

One day, he came over, told that he wasn't angry anymore. Oh, he was still mad, hurt, and betrayed, but he wasn't raging anymore. He asked to start going to counseling with her.

Well, he moved back in the day before Valentines day, 5 1/2 months after her confession. Are they fully recovered? Not by a long shot, BUT they are both getting help and working towards the HAPPIEST AND MOST FULFILLING MARRIAGE they ever thought possible.

So, my advice to you, is to get "Surviving An Affair". It is a must read even for the unfaithful spouse. Set up an appt. with the Harleys if you can or at least get a good counselor for you to see, so you can work out your issues.

At this point, You need to start healing YOU. and making changes to YOU. You cannot make your husband do anything. It is up to him to decide if he wants to stay married to you or not. Hopefully, he will not be filing anytime soon, and I doubt he will, because right now he is saying things in anger. But you need to be still and concentrate on you.....

So start with the book, stay on here and keep posting. We will all be around. My sister has been on here in the past and if you want to talk to her, I could point her over this way for you. Also, we should get for of the former wayward spouses on here to help you with your healing.....their insight in valuable....

keep you chin up....you have done your best...

not2fun

ps...this is to BryanP....do you not realize that though Brooke may have confessed and the affair is over, she is still in her own fog over this mess???? While I am not saying she should be handled delicately and 2x4ed when needed, she is in the middle of a major trauma while still being in a fog herself.....

I did not give her a 2X4. I suggested that she write her husband a letter. Reread my response. I suggested she had an opening and did not take advantage of it. I then suggested for her to write a letter to him to give her another opportunity. Do you really think I was harsh?

Brooke
my sister
my prayers go with you...
1. Please get professional advice.. and a LOT of it
2.please be generous with youself in getting the pro help
by that i mean..take the time and money to get varrying opinions..
right now you dont need any recriminations about what you did..i hope you get and FOLLOW advice from a pro.. and ONLY from a professional..
so far you have done what the posters here advised...
how is THAT working out for you???
your husband is WOUNDED.. so i'd advise you to respect him
he needs to be reassured about his life situations.. so i counsel you to maintain your routines.. and for you to let him take the lead in things..can you .. at least for a few days..put his needs first in your life???
there are a lot of specific things you need to do right now and you should really get them from a professional. describe your situation throughly.. and press the counselor to give you a hUSBANDS perspective
i wish you well my sister
JB

Melody
here is MY problem with the advice brooke got...
she was PUSHED into a radical reveal WITHOUT any warnings about all the possible RESULTS..
MOST of the males saw this coming
my advice to wives is
NEVER reveal your adultry to you Husband with out FIRST getting a PROFESSIONAL, "in person" evaluation of your husbands personailty..the range of respones can be all the way from "dont care" to MURDER.. and no one..not even the husband really knows what it will be..
I have most of harleys books.. where does he instruct HOW to reveal the affair???
JerseyBoy

Bryan,

Her response to her H was fogspeak. Given the circumstance at the time, why would you expect anything less???? Was it hurtful to him? yes....did she miss her mark??? yes.....but to me, telling her that she did it was one thing, giving her an idea on how to fix was also one thing (which I agree with...), but then you reprimanded her AGAIN by telling her she poured salt on the wound....AND THAT WILL BE THE THING ON YOUR WHOLE POST THAT SHE WILL REMEMBER....

I thought your post was fine, but yes that last part was insenitive. This is all new for her, she doesn't have a clear grasp of MB principles yet, her H is (rightfully so) acting atrocious, and she is still in the FOG. Does that mean we can't help her lift it?? No, but you had already told her in the beginning her mistake, you didn't have to "rub salt in it" if you will, at the end....she will have missed your good advice on how to fix it.....

not2fun

I'm not

IMHO, this is not the time for her to be less than truthful about what her feelings are right now. She didn't say that she loved or missed OM, in fact she didn't want to see him at all. I think her response was not inappropriate at all.

Since her H had an affair of his own, he was probably unlikely to believe that she didn't at some point at least think she was in love with OM.

Having been a BS, there is no excuse for Brookes affair, but I commend her for being honest with him about her current feelings for OM.

Who

No, Dr. Harley never recommends any such thing. That is not realistic. Dr. Harley is not a PSYCHIC and cannot "evaluate" - second hand - who will or won't be violent over the phone. Nor does he claim any such ability. We have perfectly normal, healthy people on this forum who were violent for the FIRST TIME in their lives upon exposure. It could not have been foretold.

This exposure, while very explosive, went just fine. It was not expected to be pretty, but it is a success if all the interested parties are informed. There is no reason to believe this was unsuccessful. Now, at least she has a CHANCE to save her marriage. Violence is often the outcome of exposure, and that is an expectation.

She knew full well this could be the outcome and was prepared for it. Folks did bring it up and she was not "pushed" into anything against her will. She was gentlty persuaded to do the right thing and she did. There would be no possible way to avoid that outside of assigning a security guard to both her H and the OM, which is unrealistic.

There is no need to get "professional" advice to expose an affair unless there is a chance the BS is a violent person who will harm the WS. Hers did not harm her nor was it anticipated. That is the only scenario where special care is recommended.

Exposures are expected to be ugly and sometimes even violent. That is just a fact of life, jb.

Dr. Harley never ever has recommended that one only expose with professional advice. The advice here was perfectly in line with his articles, etc.

I commend her too. While it may not have been what the BS wanted to hear...she was honest and I will not fault her for her honesty.

Brooke,

you have so much on your shoulders right now I hope you are able to look past the posts that are debating about if professional help before a confession is right/wrong.

those posts are not helpful to you right now, you are beyond that point. it's irrelavant.

you focus on what you can do now.

i continue to hope you will call for counseling here.

How are you doing?

Brooke
i say again..see a professional..in person..
and please take care of you.. rest, food, exercise...
rely on friends....get support..
be gentle with yourself
all the best
Jerseyboy

JB,

These are all your quotes. I'm confused. You tell her to seek professional advice only and then you start telling her what YOU advise and counsel.

If you feel she should only take professional advice, why do you then proceed to offer your "advice" and "counsel"?

Also, if you feel that the advice of folks who have lived through infidelity, survived it, and implemented the MB principles to recover and heal their marriages, is really not valuable, why in the world would you spend any time on the forum? AND why do you post YOUR advice?

That makes ABSOLUTELY NO sense whatsoever.

Bryan,

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with what you said. I DO agree with the fact that BH is hurt - and that he was looking for her to say that she doesn't love xOM, and she does love H.....

However,

There is the issue of radical honesty. I can't (at least with good conscience) advise her to say something she doesn't feel, just to try to get her H back. If she FEELS it, then that's one thing. But if she's unsure of her feelings about xOM, then I think it's OK to say that.

Perhaps following it up with 'but I know that xOM and I were not really in love - we were infatuated and thought it was love. I KNOW I love you, and I want to work on our M' might help.

One thing, brooke, that I would advise is telling your H that you will be honest about everything. How you are feeling, what you did....whatever he wants to know. Betrayal hurts because it is a series of lies. One way to begin recovering from hurt is to be honest - with yourself and others.

Hang in there. Remember what you felt like when you found out that your H had an affair? Rage, anger, confusion, hurt.....like someone had just sucker punched you, and taken everything that you thought was sacred and precious, and threw it in the trash. Infidelity is not a 'pretty' or 'easy' thing. It hurts EVERYONE involved.

Give things some time. He may return, or he may not. But you did the right thing, and you can be proud of that. If you hadn't, then your marriage would certainly have been doomed. At least now, you've given it a fighting chance.

good luck

Mel,

I don't care for your defense of not calling a counselor and/or the Harley's. In fact, ALL the Dr. Harley, Jen, Steve know about counseling and people is NOT in their books, nor is it possible for it to be put into books.

You don't know what Dr. Harley may or may not have recommended to her before her telling her H the truth. I am sure the truth would have been advocated but the timing, the method, the turn of a phrase to ease the pain of the BS and yes the WS might have been better.

I find it interesting that because you don't seem to care for K's advice to call the Harley's you have taken "well if it isn't in his book he wouldn't have said it approach." Experience counts, nuances count, reading people counts, and being good at this stuff requires all of the above plus knowledge. The Harley's have it, the posters here don't and I include myself in this.

One of the real tipoff's to me about someone that doesn't understand what Harley has written is that they think it is one size fits all. The patterns are very similar thus the success of MB, but the nuances, the individual tweeks, and such should be left to Pro's.

If the sum total of all of Dr. Harley, Jenn, and Steve could be put in a book and used as is, they wouldn't be needed would they?

No one is saying that Brooke shouldn't have told her H of her affair. But, there are many ways to do it and I do think a variety of ways should have been considered.

It is done now. The WS has been repudiated and I am sure it brings a smile to some of the readers and posters faces. It makes them feel JUSTICE was done. But the purpose of this site is not to exact JUSTICE it is to see if marriages can be saved, rebuilt, and thrive after some of the most awful betrayals. I don't sense that spirit right now.

That girl needs all of the help she can obtain, and talking to the Harley's would be a great first step. I think K is right, dead right on that point.

Folks, refocus here. If her H came would you help him? I think so, although he has betrayed her. Would you help her, I am not so sure. But she does need help.

Please think about this. This thread and other is not about territory, it is about someone seeking help and trying to do the right thing.

God Bless,

JL

Brooke,

Do not let yourself get rattled. You told the truth and it was the right thing to do.

As Mel posted Dr. Harley's quote on confessing, I think it is pretty clear that Dr. Harley in no way feels it necessary to come clean only with a professional. And I agree with Mel, if Dr. H thought it was dangerous for people who lived through infidelity to help others going through it, he never would have set up these forums.

You came here for help, and many here have offered you what they feel is helpful. With the support you received, you were able to finally confess a wrong to your husband. I don't know what JB is so upset about. I've been through discovering an affair myself. Your BS really wasn't any more irrational than the rest of us BS's those first few days after discovery. What you saw is pretty typical.

Now, what you need to do from here is where you need to focus. I posted earlier about a no contact letter and elminating all the ways OM can contact you (phones, emails, etc.)

Have you put some thought into that?

Realize that you cannot control your husband. Your job at this point is to continue to do the right thing. He will either choose that this marriage is worth working on, or he won't. That choice is up to him. Do the right things anyway.

melody
thank you.. what book are you quoting from ??...about how dr harley tells a spouse how to reveal an affair
and i'd love to private message you..how is that done??
thanks
jerseyboy

And I think you are dead wrong. A BS should NOT have to endure one additional day of betrayal so that the WS can get some advice. I think Mel hit the nail on the head.

JL, let me be clear, I am NOT criticising K for telling her to call the Harleys and believe she SHOULD call them. She would get the best BENEFIT from doing so. I do not disagree with that. That being said, one does not have to call to get guidance in order to recover.

What I DO object to is his assertion that she has been given BAD or MISLEADING ADVICE on this forum. She most certainly HAS NOT. If you feel another way should have been explored, there was nothing stopping you from telling her that. The advice she was given is advice that is to be found in Dr. Harleys writings. [quote above] It is in perfect compliance with what we have learned here and what we know works.

While we don't know what Dr. Harley would have said if she called for counseling, we DO KNOW that Dr.H has NEVER EVER said that counselng is a REQUIREMENT to expose. Nor is there anything different about this case to make us believe this is not the garden variety case. We gave TRIED AND TRUE Marriage Builders advice, based on the principles we have learned here.

The result has been that the affair is now EXPOSED, so now there is some HOPE for the marriage. That is NOT A BAD THING. Alot of folks here spent time and effort giving Brooke SOUND ADVICE. And while the result has been explosive [and isn't it always?] it has been PRODUCTIVE.

I very much resent K's assertion that she has been given BAD ADVICE here, when she has been given TRIED AND TRUE Marriage Builders advice that led her to DO THE RIGHT THING. He was out of line to criticize fellow members for giving MB advice on Marriage Builders, IMO.

jb, here is the link to the entire article: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

I'd just like to say something from the perspective of both a WS and a BS....

I confessed my A - much in the way that Brooke did. I made that choice. I confessed in the only words that I knew how.

"I had an affair"

After those 4 words, it didn't matter what I said. What mattered is what he heard. I said "I don't love xOM" - he heard "you LOVED xOM". I said "I love you and want this to work" - he heard "you BETRAYED me and expect me to stay?"

In my VERY humble opinion, it doesn't matter how you sugar coat it. An affair is an affair. And no words will ease, cure, or take away the agony of betrayal.

What's done is done. And here we are. There is no avoiding the 'fallout' of the A's. The best we can hope for in this situation is that once the rage dies down, that both brooke and her H are able to empathize with each other enough to decide that they both made horrible decisions, and that they need to work on themselves. And perhaps, work on their M.

Brooke, I'm sorry, but this is just something you have to go through. It's miserable, it's painful, it's devastating. To face IN PERSON the damage that the affair has caused. But it's sobering. And it will help you to learn from your experience, and be a better person.

Hang in there. No matter what you WILL be OK.

Very well said, L.I.T.

I would add that the suggestion to expose affairs to the spouse *IS* "professional" advice; it comes right from the mouth of DR. WILLARD HARLEY, a professional. There is absolutely nothing different about this situation that would lead me to believe that is not good advice.

mama bear
here is what i am upset about..
a professional could have foreseen all the possible reactions and repurcussions.. and prepared Brooke for them..

once she revealed.... she lost control .. her H fought OM..
her H had dinner with her and his parents....her H lied to her and got a confront with OM and her.. anyway..even tho she did not want this...
all of these things she was unprepared for...
her H is an alpha male, lawyer with a black belt..he is aggressive..so is OM..
why do you think her H GOT a black belt ??? BECAUSE he intends to USE it
HELLO...
jb

MEDC,

Aren't you the one that always defends himself with "I have a right to state what I think is right?" Well grow up and take your own advice.

No one advocated Brooke not telling her H. But, this is not a heart attack or a bullet to the brain, taking a day to do it best is NOT going to hurt the BS and my help them.

Mel,

K did not say it was BAD advice. He stated
He is suggesting to recover, she needs a plan, and frankly she has been offered support, some condemnation, and a few recommendations. Do you claim that all advice given on this board is good? I have seen you jump on more than a few posters whose advice you felt was not consistent with the Harley's approach.

My point the advice to seek counseling from Pro's to address recovery is in fact good advice. I think your reaction to his comment Is a little strong given that everyone thinks they give good advice with the best of intentions. Yet, as you have pointed out to more than a few posters, you don't think they did in fact give the best advice. My point, advice is in the eye of the beholder, and all K stated was to his eye some of the advice was not as effective as it could be, so go to the Pro's.

I don't see a problem with this and I am surprised you do.
Brooke is a mess. Her H is a mess. Their marriage is a mess. They have now had two affairs in this marriage obviously the last one has not been dealt with, but the first one apparently wasn't dealt with very well as well.

They do need the pro's IF both are willing to rebuild. Time will tell on that.

God Bless,

JL

I doubt that, unless you know of a professional PSYCHIC. Brooke had excellent insight into what to expect and knows her life better than anyone. Here is what she said:


EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.


EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED.


She knew what would happen and had perfect insight. Professionals don't have psychic or magic powers, jb, and I doubt any of them could have foretold the outcome even close to what Brooke did. She knew exactly what was going happen and knew it was going to be ugly.

Exposures are ugly, jb. That is the RULE rather than the exception. Adultery is a horrible, painful crime that is as traumatic as the death of a child or a rape. There is no way to gloss that over. There is no way to prevent the ugliness and horror. There is no magic "professional" that can see into the future and make the unpleasantness go away.

Oh no, of course not, but I do not think K meant it at all in the way you think. He said: "you've been given a lot of adivce that isn't going to help you and your husband recover your marriage." He is clearly referring to the current situation, not about a "plan" for the future. If radical honesty, especially about an affair, is not going to help her recover her marriage, then I have no idea what would. Radical honesty is always the first step. So he needs to clarify exactly what he means, IMO.

So far, she has only been given advice about EXPOSURE. His implication is that she can't get good advice on this forum, which is crap. Offensive crap. Very offensive to many of us who have great marriages from using this forum with the help of many great veterans here. Just as the Harleys INTENDED.

I disagree with all of this. First of all, the average Joe professional does not foresee all the possible reactions and repurcussions. They are not specialized enough in RECOVERING from infidelity. Many of them never recovered their own marriages from infidelity. I think she probably got a better view of the possibilities from the many viewpoints here from those who've gone through the discovery of an affair.

I would say that if I pooled 30 people who've gone through discovery and asked what happened on d-day, they would have a much more thorough list of reactions and responses than the average Jo counselor. Much!




Why does that seem out of the ordinary???

Who wouldn't???




Seems like a pretty typical response, which could have EASILY happened on the way home from a professional's office.





You know, exposure is incredibly painful. There really is no easy way around it.

Brooke received advice about going and about not going. Then she made her decision.

Much advice I received from my counselor's was not nearly as good as I got from this board, quite frankly. And if I had followed my first counselor's advice (who, of course, specialized in infidelity, yet never recovered his own marriage), my husband would still be cake-eating.







You do realize that this could have just as easily happened had the visisted a professional.

They would have gone to the office, confessed in the "controlled" setting. But then they go home to the REAL WORLD. And both their heads start spinning. And if you think he wouldn't have gone nuts just because a few hours earlier he got told the worst news of his life by his wife in front of a complete stranger, you are kidding youself.

His anger would come. And it would be nearly uncontrollable...just like almost every BS.




I don't think she was unprepared. She was told repeatedly to BE PREPARED for his anger, his wrath, his outbursts. Him confronting OM was even discussed. She did not go into this blind.

I just don't see anything unusual about any of this, except that her BS had the "privilege" of being told instead of learning about it some other horrid way (like most of us).




Well, first of all, people don't get a black belt to "use it". There is A LOT more to martial arts training than fighting and any DECENT training in the martial arts deals with the developing the character of the person--self-control, self-discipline, dedication, humbleness, manners, self-improvement.

My husband is a 3rd degree in aikido, my 17yos is a soon-to-be 2nd degree in Pangi-noon karate and kobodo (weapons) and a brown belt in aikido, my 13yod is a black belt in Pangi-noon karate and soon to be in kobodo. My 11yos is a brown belt, 9yos a green belt, and 7yos an orange belt. And I study Tai Chi and self-defense.

So, I am not ignorant to the martial arts. My 17yos traveled with a USA team for competition (and received the highest kata score if I may take a moment to brag <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

A good majority of people with a black belt, sadly, didn't do much to accomplish it. It is often flaunted but there isn't much to back it up. In the USA they are practically handed out. So just because someone has a black belt, doesn't necessarily mean the can actually fight.

With that being overly said (sorry), I disagree with your assessment that unpredictable things happened. Everyone, including Brooke, knew the dangers of confessing. She made a KNOWLEDGEABLE choice. What exactly do you think a professional would tell her.

I would like to hear - with specifics - how this would have been prevented. And what your GUARANTEE would be.

TIME OUT!!!!

Can everyone PLEASE stop bickering about who gave the best advice?
It really isn't doing Brooke (remember her?) any good, and frankly is undermining the credibility of the "Vets" she's been told to trust with the most difficult situation she's ever had in her life.
If everyone involved in this discussion were standing in the same room. I imagine Brooke might quietlt sneak out a back door never to return... Really. It's a little disheartening.
Lets not forget who this thread is supposed to be about, put our ego's in check and try to get back to pulling in the same direction.
Though there may be merit to this discussion in general, a SEPERATE thread to discuss opinions and interperetations of the MB principles might be in order.

Brooke, hang in there. Your fortitude is inspirational. I sure wish my wife had the guts you've shown. I don't respect your actions (A), but I'm proud of the way you are approaching this next stage of your life. Hopefully some day you can look back and be proud of how you handled this.
Peace!

Please calm yourself down, trytoohard. A civil discussion about the principles used in this situation is a GOOD THING, not a BAD thing. Some feel that wrong practices were recommended here and it helps everyone concerned to discuss each side of the issue. That is how people learn.

brooke..
all the best.. i appologize to you
and to melody and the moderators..in Brooke's best interest i will be silent
jb

for what it's worth and because I personally did not want to threadjack Brooke's thread, I just started a new thread How quickly to confess with my personal experience and current thoughts. anyone is welcome to comment there. of course i'm not saying you can't continue discussing it here too, but now there is an option for those that, like me, want to allow this thread to be about Brooke and where she is right now.

Well, for what it's worth, I think these discussions can be helpful to the thread owner as well as lurkers.

By NOT having this discussion, Brooke would have been left with the impression that she should feel more guilt because she didn't confess in the presence of a professional. She has enough guilt to sort through without adding more. I'm not about to sit quietly and let her think that she should feel bad about what happened. It was a typical discovery day---just plain UGLY.

If I never comment on what I disagree with and JB (or someone else) never comments on what they disagree with, then the readers just think, well, everyone agrees with all that's being said.

Do you all not realize how dangerous that is?

If we can't express disagreement with something said and explain our viewpoint. Well, I'd have missed out on a lot from my post without people challenging certain thought processes. If you all had taken that stuff outside my thread, I would have thought, well, gee, I guess everyone thinks that's right. No one seems to disagree.

Folks, why do so many find these respectful disagreement harmful??? I don't get that.


JB,
I never felt that you were yelling at me, only disagreeing and explaining your viewpoint. I think that's mature conversation. I hope you didn't feel I was yelling at you, but rather disagreeing and explaining my viewpoint.

SMB, that is why i posted the link here. Brooke will know where additional discussion is occuring.

JL...Where did I say you couldn't state your opinion? I stated mine that I agreed with Mel. I didn't say you couldn't state yours. yet you personally attack against the terms of service and you tell me to grow up.

MEDC,

I'm waiting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

JL

JL - I don't even understand what your point is here.

Brooke IS getting help here and of course so would her husband.

There is no discrimination here.

Please help me understand your point.

Hi everyone. I want you to know I read all the posts and I will comment on them tomorrow. There is a lot of stuff I need to tell you guys but I am too tired tonight to write it all out. I will tomorrow but it will probably be late. I did want to tell you that H send out a mass email today to I would say about 50 friends, co-workers and family member exposing my affair. My phone has not stopped ringing. I finally had to turn if off and I must have 3 dozen emails.

Honestly I don't know how I will show my face in public. I am really trying to look on the bright side of this email. If he did not give a damn he would not have sent it out. Here is a copy. He cc me and xOM.



After he sent the e-mail he wrote another one to xOM and I that said "What do you think of those apples b!tches"?

I did not respond to the e-mail. I'm in shock really. I never expected him too do that.

60 times in 5 months. Wow. I understand that your H would be irate over that. That means 60 times you came home to him over a 5 month period after having been with the OM. Did you sleep with the OM in your H's home? Did you ever sleep with them both on the same day?

Try and see this from your H's side. Empathy is needed right now. You say you never expected HIM to do that...I would say that seems a bit backwards to me. He is hurt and rightfully so. His betrayal is a double whammy...and while I do not agree with his sending that email out...I can understand the anger that fuels his actions.

I would still suggest a call to the Harley's...and an attorney to protect yourself moving forward.

Hi Brooke,

I'm sorry to see you going through this stuff right now. I want to reiterate to you that your marriage is in a very precarious situation right now---you don't have a lot of love left for your husband (and haven't for some time), and I'm guessing that your husband has been in the same boat as well.

I'm going to again remind you to try to give the Harley's a call---they're the best with dealing with infidelity. They will help you get your head around a plan that would minimize that pain and explosive disaster that you're dealing with now. Some of the advice that you've been given to tell the truth is good (I'm all for complete and utter truth)---but it was given with no regard for supportive care, the state of your marriage, etc. It's like finding out that a patient with poor vitals has lung cancer, and then operating immediately with a chain saw, no anesthesia, no banked blood, no assistants...

With regard to the email, don't respond. He's obviously angry. In general---in these whirlwind situations, do nothing. Do not react. ACT. And your best action would be to give the Harley's a call---and stay off the boards. I'm offline for nearly a week, so I'm sorry that I can't stay and give you a hand.

Don't get too caught up in the debate thread about your situation---just get an appointment set up...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />



So, stay off the boards because he is not here to help you. Wow. Someone is a bit too full of themself.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />



lol

Hey Brooke, i'm so sorry to hear about this as well. My heart goes out to you. My best advice is to forgive him, he knows not what he does. Hang in there Brooke.

A question for Brooke ONLY:

Why did you change your mind about divorcing your husband?

I ask because you stated on your first post the following:


In light of that it seems that a realistic evaluation must be made as far as determining whether there is anything to rebuild on. It's your choice (as well as your husband's) whether you want to remain married or not but guilt, on your part, is not enough of a reason to rebuild or to continue with the marriage.

Hi Brooke,

I'm sorry that being honest with your BH has been so tough. Expecting it to be doesn't make actually experiencing it any easier IMHO.

He is acting like many of we BS might have. For me, I was so ashamed that my FWH had cheated on me that I didn't tell anyone. But then the A was already over on d-day.

FWIW, I suspect that your BH will eventually come to regret sharing such personal information with so many whether your marriage recovers or you divorce.

In this situation, his exposure was revenge motivated as opposed to affair ending.

Might I ask, how you reacted when you learned of your BH's affair? What I mean is there any similarity in how you reacted compared to his reaction.

Take care of yourself.

Who

Okay real quick post before I go back to work. H called me and said we needed to do our taxes. He mentioned NOTHING at first about the email he sent but I told him we really needed to talk more than just taxes. I have decided to send xOM a NC email. I don't believe he will contact me but I thought he would know better than to show up at my house even with H's insistance. The most important thing I am going to see a marital counselor f2f today. Sorry guys I cannot get past the phone thing.

A NC letter is a great idea Brooke and a very important step that should not be overlooked...It should be approved and sent by your husband...If he isn't up for that, at the very least you should post such letter here for critique and approval before sending...All too often a WSs idea of a NC letter is much too soft...

Mrs. W

Brooke, I agree very much with MrsW. I would use this as an opportunity to start rebuilding from the ashes by getting his approval of the letter and mailing together.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Dr.Harley:

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Brooke
re the counseling visit.. THANK GOD.
take the email your Husband sent out
and show it to counselor
it really shows a lot of your husbands peronality
all the best
Jerseyboy

Brooke,

I'm glad you're still with us and that you are so strong!
In spite of everything, you still have to feel proud of yourself for doing the right thing. I can't tell you how much I admire your courage to face your mistake and own up to it. My WH has been living with OW for 3 years and still pretends that everything is normal! I can't understand how someone can be such a coward!

In my opinion there is something more to your BS's exposure of your affair. I sense unnecessary cruelty... I agree that you should show it to the counselor.

On the other hand, I also wanted to tell you something Dr. H always does: first he asks the BS whether he wants to remained married or not. He is very respectful of this decision. Only after the BS says he/she wants to remained married does Dr. H explain all his methods, which are guaranteed to work, if both spouses follow his instructions.
He has often told the story of how he started out working on this subject and he himself was always very surprised when couples who had suffered infidelity actually came to him wanting to recover from that instead of divorcing.

He always says it is a narrow road which leads to recovery too, so it's not an easy task, but it can be done.

If you want your marriage, don't lose hope. I've seen worse cases on this forum and they have made it.

And I would like to insist, be proud of yourself in the midst of the misery you are going through. You have done the honourable thing. And this is a very difficult moment, probably the worse.

It will get better, with or without your BS.

Hi Brooke. just curious
would you do anything different??
what ???
many prayers my sister
Jerseyboy

I think 'state of mind' might be a better phrase than 'personality'.

His 'state of mind' is that of an enraged, deeply wounded animal, which is completely expected given the circumstances.

Brooke, whether your M survives or not, you did absolutely the right thing by fessing up. It showed courage and strength.

Hi Brooke, good luck in counseling today!!

Brooke,

In contrast to some others, I have seen lots of good advice here, and you have taken much of it.

You were advised to tell him, you did that.

You were advised not to make any decisions right now, you haven't.

You were advised to be honest with him about everything, you have done that. Even when the honesty hurt him - you have done it. I know how hard that was for you, and for him, BTW, and while no one could have done it perfectly, there are many armchair quarterbacks with 20/20 hindsight who can critique it all day........you did what you could with the situation at hand. A very tough situation at that - your husband blindsided you with a confrontation with the OM. I don't think I could have ever faced that at all. I don't think that being faced with that situation, that I would have been able to have said and done everything exactly correctly. So Brooke, you need to mark that up as "I did what I could in the toughest situation I ever faced", and you go on with your head up. Because you told the truth - and now, you go on and deal with the next step from it. That is all you CAN do, really. We fall down, we get up. I actually have to respect you for making it through all of that drama. I honestly don't know if I would have had the courage to face all of that.

You were advised to seek a counselor. From very early on, you have told us that you had already known of a counselor a friend recommended, and obviously you had taken care of that, and you followed up with your appointment today. Good job on that.

The side arguments, they have their value. They can teach about the deeper concepts of marriage, fidelity, honesty; the nuances of the philosophies that underpin the lessons you will learn on the website and in the books. Each of the "vets" hold their own viewpoint, and each has value to offer you. My advice to you is to read everything here that you can - even if the threads might not seem to apply to you right now. You will come to learn about the posters, find out who fits your personal style, who makes more sense to you. More importantly, you will learn about the concepts of Marriage Builders, what drives these concepts, how they are applied by the various people who utilize them in rebuilding marriages after infidelity, and also garner insight into your own behavior and marriage - all of these will make you better equipped in rebuilding your marriage. Even if your marriage is not recovered and you do end up divorcing, the concepts you learn here will assist you in understanding what happened, why you had an affair, and how NOT to carry these problems into your next relationship.

So I disagree with the advice to "stay off the boards". Because this particular website has a great deal of learning to be had, and if you spend your time reading the website, learning the Marriage Builders concepts (such as radical honesty, emotional needs, and POJA), asking questions, and reading threads, you can increase your understanding of infidelity and recovery. Time well spent, IMHO.

Now for the advice section of this post:

1. Read the website for the Basic Concepts. Learn them, and begin to evaluate your marriage in terms of how you and your husband fare in applying them. Where are you weak, and where are you strong, in terms of a marriage partnership? I'm asking you to do this because it helped me understand what I needed to focus on in terms of "changing" in MY OWN approach to the marital relationship after my husband's affair. I thought "he needs to change". The answer really was, "I need to change". Because I only control one person in this marriage, ME.

2. Do the emotional needs questionnaire. Again, do some evaluation - what do you think you were seeking with the OM? Now, take a look at the same questionnaire, and think about your HUSBAND's point of view on emotional needs. What EN's of your husbands were you NOT meeting? This gave me insight into very specific PERSONAL areas of need between the two of us. It gave me a direction for my PLAN A. You will need to do a Plan A of sorts, because although you are not trying to bust up an affair, you ARE trying to make yourself attractive and safe for your husband again. Plan A behaviors will assist in that, so you will want to review that, and the emotional needs of your husband, in order to put together your plan.

3. Read especially on the concept of withdrawal from the fantasy of the affair partner. You need complete understanding of this. Two very good resources are "Surviving an Affair", and "After the Affair". Order them. They are worth the money, and can also help your husband when he is ready.

4. Don't stop coming to this website. You will get help here, and support here. But remember that quite often, the advice you DON'T like can very often be the advice you need to listen to most closely - it might be hitting the mark because it hurts. And sometimes, the posters can be "rough", but their hearts are in the right place. I've hung around because - well - even though some people can "sound" mean, nearly everyone here is here because they really want to help other people. Remember that. They can fight on one thread, and laugh with one another somewhere else.

SB

((((Brooke))))

I am so sorry about the email. I know with all of his actions, this is hard on you. I am not putting your H down by any means. He is hurt, wounded, and demoralized. But I am concerned about the affects all this has had on you??? How are you holding up?? How are you sleeping??? How are you eating??? Who is supporting you through this???

I ask this, because this is a very stressful time for YOU, and I am concerned for YOUR wellbeing. Everyone has given you great advice, and you are doing ADMIRABLY well in doing all you can to do the right thing.

Now, my only advice to you is to make an appointment with your regular Dr.. Tell him/her what is going on in your life and how you are doing with it all. This way you can be prepared for any aftereffects that may show up....depression, anxiety, sleeplessness to name a few. You need to take good care of yourself, this is vital no matter what happens to your marriage....

Keep up the good work and stay on here. You have many supporters here.

not2fun

I am a realistic person and I know the odds are stacked against us. We lack the most basic components for rebuilding: love, trust and respect. H knows that I am not in love with him and I told him that way before I got involved with xOM. I am sure the feeling is mutual now. Trust and respect don't even get me started on those 2 issues.

After I confessed it was a lot harder to walk away than I thought it would be. Maybe it's our long history. I have been with him all my adult life. He was my first everything. I just can't imagine not having him in my life in some way. Even though we have lived separate lives the last couple of years he was still around. Something keeps me from throwing in the towel all together. Maybe it is guilt. I don't know which is why I have not filed for a divorce.

If you are not sure, then how can you be sure unless u 2 really talk things out. If you can't do that between the 2 of you, then get a neutral 3rd party (i.e. MC or IC).

I recommend calling Steve or Jennifer or get an MC familiar with MB principals.

I can tell you that none of us wanted t/b in this situation. Still we are forced to make changes but we learn to make wise ones. Those changes may hurt in different ways and at different times but if the ending result is positive, it w/b worth it. Why? Because all changes will hurt to a degree one way or the other.

This is a life changing decision you are contemplating. Make it be the right one.

JMHO,
L.

I told our close friends and family. I did not send out a mass e-mail. D-day #1 I confronted him with my proof and kicked him out of the house. I was hysterical but not physically violent that time. D-day #2 he got a black eye and a bloody lip. I also slapped him across the face as hard as I could. I through all his stuff in the front yard and called his OW to come and get his ****** and HIM. The next day I had him served with divorce papers at work.

I want to update you about my counseling session. She told me a lot of the same stuff you guys did. She asked a ton of questions about our history. So today was really about her getting to know me and my situation. She wants to talk to my H one on one. I don't believe he will agree to a joint session as this time but he might agree to see her by himself. She gave me some suggestions on how to approach him. I really expected her to give me a list of books to read and a bunch of homework on how to improve myself but she didn't. I really like her and felt very comfortable with her. I actually left her office feeling better. I am going to go back on Monday and we are going to discuss long and short term goals.

The only thing I would have done different is when OM showed up at the house I would have left. I have no regrets that I did not tell him in front of a professional. In my case I don't think it was necessary. Schoolbus, FL2H, and L.I.T gave me some very good ideas on what to say. The problem was after I mentioned the best friend part everything sort of went to ****** after that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> The reaction would have been the same no matter how I told him. I do think if there is a fear of physical violence it's a very good idea to do it in public or with a professional.

Last post for tonight I promise.

re: the fall out of the email.

I think H already regrets sending it out. He was in a fit of rage when he did it. Now everyone knows our business. My work place is like a second home to me and a very supportive environment. Not everyone knows at work because H only knows a few of their emails. Those who know are not gossips so at least work is still a refuge for me.

I am not going to reply to the emails. I have already told the people who are most important to me. Since H sent the email out he can answer all their questions. I will be very honest and say that I am still furious he sent it out but he did it. Nothing I can do about it.

Hi Brooke,

There's a saying that goes something like "act in haste, repent in leisure". It's very good advice---here you will be encouraged to ACT (according to a plan), and not REACT.

Offer the counseling to your husband. Let him know that your goal is to work towards a happy marriage with him; one in which you are both satisfied. And that you're committed to doing it. Don't depend on his reaction to this, to counseling, to what he does with email, etc. It's not an easy path for either of you, but it's the one that will help both of you the most---regardless if you get through this with an intact marriage or not. Hopefully your counselor is skilled enough that she'll be able to help guide the two of you through this process.

Remember---don't react. Act like you will make this marriage work.

great advice K.

Brooke, just keep YOUR goal in mind. you are doing great. your posts sound very strong willed.

are you eating/sleeping ok?

Hi Brooke,

I am not surprised that he has already started to regret the mass email.

My FWH and I have discussed a couple of times how he thinks he would react if I were the one to have an affair. He claims that he would forgive me and want to stay married as long as I was remorseful.

I have come to believe over time that we simply can not predict what we will do in a given situation. I would have sworn on my entire savings that I would have thrown my FWH out and filed for divorce immediately.

While my FWH is not a violent man nor does he have a bad temper, I would't be surprised if he did get violent. I think it is more than difficult, it is impossible for any WS to imagine how deep the devestation felt by the BS unless they have been one.

And even then it's still just a prediction, isn't it. We have all learned that we didn't really know our WS, for me the next step was realizing and accepting that I didn't even really know myself.

You take care, stay strong, you are doing great.

Who

Hi brooke
congrats on finally getting into counseling.
i hope your goal is to
1. understand yourself and be honest with youself and your counselor
2. be open to her advice
3. build a happy life for you..
all the best
jerseyboy
ps... show "the" email to the counselor

Brooke,

I have seen the statement made that you aren't in love with your husband. You still want to save the marriage, though.

I wonder if you are still in the fog of "I love him but I'm not 'in love with him'", as fallout from your affair?

This is quite common after a romantic affair. Please know that this sense is likely to lift once you have a length of time in no-contact from the affair partner. Also the fact that you and your husband have spent too much time in a marriage of basically living separate lives has likely created a sense of distance between you. This can result in the loss of feeling "in love" with your spouse as well.

The MB plan allows a way to make the feelings rekindle - it involves spending more time together in activities which are pleasurable for the both of you, meeting the emotional needs of one another. At first, it may seem a bit stilted and awkward, because the time is planned. You two haven't done things together for awhile, and you know you're doing them as part of a "plan". But, if you keep doing them, they become feeling more natural and actually do help increase the bonding and feelings of affection and love toward one another.

Another thing for you to learn about. I encourage you to do some reading on withdrawal, and about spending time with your spouse. If you do both at the same time, you can cover lots of ground in the recovery process.

Recovery is not for the faint of heart, and it will not be an easy chore. It is NOT short-term, either. Plan for this process to take about two years of hard work, and that means from the point of buy-in on BOTH your parts.

SB

Thinking of you Brooke. Give us an update.

thinking of you too Brooke.

I felt like that long before I got involved with xOM. Still I am hoping time and NC will help me get over him. H and I use to to be in love with each other once. I know it will take a lot of hard work. After everything that has happened I don't even know if its possible but I still want to try.

For an update I checked online and H has not filed for a divorce as of Friday. I am really beginning to feel the consequences of my actions and all the ppl I have hurt. My mom called me today and thanked me for embarassing the family. She said its the only thing people are talking about and she cannot say one thing to defend me and she finds that very upsetting.

H found out the circumstances of how my brother found out about my affair and that has really set him back. My brother did not help matters much by his reaction. He did not say much but more or less he told H he did not owe him anything since they were no longer friends.

Now H is tormented with the idea of xOM getting away with this. He told me at least I had the satisfaction of getting xOW fired from her dream job. He said he will never have that type of satisfaction. He keeps on saying xOM have never given a damn what people think about him and he will not care in the long run if his reputation suffers because of our affair.

I told him I was seeing a counselor and he rolled his eyes and told me that I better not even ask him to go.

hi Brooke, so where is DH living? with you still i hope?

patience Brooke, patience.

you are doing the right things, getting yourself help via counseling. you can only control you.

regarding your mom. just apologize to her and then let it go and forgive her if she is not able to quickly forgive you. understand, it will take time for her too.

Brooke..if more mothers reacted the way your did, the world would not have to deal with so much infidelity. You have a good mother there.

Well Brooke, it's good to hear from you and it's good that your DH hasn't filed. Time is important. At least some periods of time. You yourself are now feeling different after s few weeks of NC. Your DH also needs some time and it would be great if he made no long term decisions until a couple of weeks have gone by and he has a clearer mind. So far it seems that that may happen.
Be calm and strong. Easier said than done I can imagine but you are doing fine. How do you really feel?

I admire you for listening, reading and deciding, looking for help and accepting it. I have a friend who has recently found out her H was having an affair but she refuses to listen, and is following her instincts and things are not going well.

T/J: CC, it's GREAT to HEAR you posting, my friend!!

T/J Hello to you too Mimi. I have started reading again lately because I'm trying to help a friend who's H had an affair. I got caught up with Brooke's situation.
How I wish my WH were like her, but he seems to be the complete opposite! After 3 1/2 years he doesn't even admit he had an affair! (which is still on going...)
Anyway let's not threadjack Brooke's space.

Brooke. stay with the counseling... even if and ESPECIALLY if your Husband refuses to go.. He needs insight into himself as much as you need to know WHY you do what you did.
.some things to think about in counseling
when and why did your marriage END for you???
why do you want to stay married to this Husband???
be honest with your self about the revenge you sought for your husbands affair..
take deep look at the character of the 4 people in this drama.. YOU, H, OM, Brother.. I personally would NOT have ANY of you in MY LIFE..
Listen to all the advice you get on this site
DONT take ANY of it witout a professional counselors..insight
your life is YOUR responsibility
regards
jerseyboy

Brooke:

Call your mother back.

Tell her you made a terrible mistake.

You are trying to FIX it.

You told your Husband what happened, and are facing the consequences of that.

You don't know what the future holds, but you know that you are facing the future with honesty, instead of lies.

And then tell her your sorry for any pain that you caused.

And then say "talk to you later"

And hang up.

LG

FL2H and ccbis,

H is staying at a rental property that we own. He says he has no intention of moving back here but he has not filed yet..... CC you asked how I was really doing. I feel like I am going crazy and being pulled in all different directions. I have been throwing up a lot the last few days and I am not sure if it is some kind of flu or from stress. That is how pathetic my life has become. Still I am eating and trying to get as much rest as I can. You know one day at a time.

jerseyboy,

You talk about character. My mom was telling me she has been talking with H's and xOM's parents and they were all trying to figure out where they went wrong with the 4 of us. How could they have all raised such liars and cheaters.

Mom asked my brother and I if there was something her and dad could have done differently with us. She said we are both cheaters and liars and she did not raise us like that. We both told her these were decisions we made as adults and it has nothing to do with how they raised us. She told me that xOM parents are good Christains and did not raise him to be a liar and a homewrecker. She pretty much said the same about H's parents. The only conclusion they came to is that H, xOM, and B lost their way when they turned their back on Christianity and because Atheists. She wanted to know what my excuse was. I was not going to argue with her about that but I did tell her I was very sorry that my behavior has caused her so much pain and embarrassment.

I will continue with IC to try and figure out why I let this happen.

Brooke,,,,

It sounds like you are holding up pretty good. You did a good job with your mom. The fact that you are not running away from all this shows great character. You will be blessed in the end from all of this.

Have you talked to your IC about antidepressants?? How about making an appointment with your regular DR.?? I only ask, because of the health ramifications in all of this. I know what it can do to you. And if you need some help getting through it, that's ok....

Thanks for keeping us posted....and keep up the good work.

not2fun

brooke
you are a very young woman.. with a ton of life ahead of you..
to be truely happy you must develop your standards of what kind of prople you let into your life.. you must define your values and you must keep your word.and know who you really are...if you can..try stepping outside of yourself and observing the 4 of you..
i am sorry about your extreme anxiety and nausea..rough...

do you exercies?? its really good for relaxing.. also meditation.. and deep opening up to a friend.. do you have a good girl friend??..someone who will deep listen to you.. someone safe?? who wont judge?? a clergy man you trust??
i suggest a woman ..only... being this open with a male is dangerous..but then you now know this..you do know that "grieving" with OM was just ringing the dinner bell..for him..get therapist to explain your H and OM.. and what was really going on...
I wish you peace
Jerseyboy

Hi Brooke,

i agree with getting yourself to the Dr and maybe seeing if meds might be a good idea. not sure if you are open to that idea or not, i was very opposed but in the end, i did for a short time and it did help.

you have an excellent plan, continue with IC and take care of yourself. no matter what happens, you will come out of this ok.

how are you feeling about your mom? is it getting to you or do you realize that HER inablity to deal with this all is HER deal? just give her time. and forgive her because by forgiving her, you will be giving yourself a gift, the ability to let it go.

your own actions are all you can control.

i'm sorry to hear DH is not staying with you. that does make it harder. just let him know as best you can that you are working on growing from all this and improving yourself.

huggs to you, keep posting, we are hear for you.

Brooke, It's good to hear from you.

I can't even imagine the ****** you are going through, it's just imagining it that has kept ME faithful. I really wouldn't want to. You must really be a great person (and a very corageous one) because you are doing the right thing. You are doing what it takes to correct your mistake and you will come out of this a better person.

People who deny or ignore it, or just pretend it is no big deal will never be admirable or trustworthy people, They miss the chance to grow as humans, in the right direction. BE PROUD that you are doing the right thing to grow. Even if it seems to be tearing you to pieces now.

You have to live through it. You may need help so go to your doctor, maybe get antidepressants if you need them. Take care of yourself, DECIDE to eat and sleep, you need to be strong to get through this.

read here. it's sort of comforting to know others have been through the same and have made it to the other side.

You can only control YOU. And by controlling YOU you can help others (DH, parents, siblings) Show them that repenting and working on yourself to correct your mistakes is the best way to deal with this. We are all fallible, that does not distinguish us one from another. It's what we do about our mistakes that determines whether we grow and become better people or we get stuck with an ever growing load of never solved problems and situations.

Is IC helping? Do you have friends who support you?

your marriage is currently on the backburner, until your H decides what he wants to do. If he should decide to give the marriage another chance (you have already stated that would be your choice) I really think you should try to get counselling from the Harleys. It's all done by phone so maybe he will accept that. In the meantime there are articles on the web page that can be of help.

keep posting. I'm sure it helps.

Don't get lost!

Brooke,
I've not read your whole story, but I know you're in a lot of pain. There's nothing I can say that everyone else hasn't said already. Just wanted to send a hug your way and let you know that in the end, it will be okay, if it's not okay, it's not the end. I don't remember who said it, but it makes sense. Take it one day at a time.

hugs for you ...from another ww

It sounds like you are totally owning up and doing the right things. Just keep it up. Some day soon, you'll earn back their respect. It's a painful and confusing time for everyone.

You're doing great.

H sent me an email and he says that he wants us to see a mediator. He says if we file a joint divorce petition it can be finalized within 10 business days. I called my IC and basically she says don't cooperate with the joint petition and if he files solo I should do everything I can to stall it short of being charged with contempt of court. She did strongly encourage me to get legal counsel because she thinks he will file soon.

At this point H will not even consider seeing her but she says that is very normal. I worry by not cooperating at all it will just fuel his rage. I thought of maybe a compromise if we get counseling for X amount of time and if he still feels the same then I will agree to a divorce. She said we live in a no fault state and he will get the divorce no matter what. She told me at this point my best option was to stall. I really think my IC suggestion will just fuel his rage and my idea is better. What do you guys think?

I do not think you have a right to stall. Your BH has the right to divorce you based on your actions and you should not make it harder for him to leave if that is his choice.

Brooke,

Harley, says in his discussion of the POJA, Policy of Joint Agreement, that even divorce should be POJA'd. If you don't want a divorce and you want to save this marriage then you should consider giving this more time. I am surprised gladly that your IC is standing for the marriage. Most don't. They simply try to easy there clients pain.

Stalling will not easy your pain, but it does give your H time to really think about all of this. After all he did cheat on you as well.

Your call of course.

God Bless,

JL

It has always been recommended here to the spouse that wants to recover. That is to stall. Then to say I don't talk divorce, talk to my lawyer.

So Brook, lawyer up and have him stall.

TR..that refers to a WS that wants to divorce to be with their affair partner.

Putting obstacles in the way of a BS that wants out is frankly cruel. Not only does the BS have to endure more heartache through a long divorce process...they also have to deal with spending more money. Any WS that drags their feet after the BS has expressed their clear desire to divorce is just imposing more selfish actions on to the BS.

Stalling will increase her H's pain. And the POJA is not applicable here since even the good doctor says that the BS has a right to divorce the WS if they choose to do so. In addition...Brooke BH has not agreed to use MB guidelines. Imposing them on him is silly.

in my humble opinion, your husband has a right to divorce you. But that doesn't mean I think you should readily agree to divorce. I think that telling him the truth, that you would prefer not to and suggesting a time period to think it over is good idea.
He doesn't seem to like the suggestion of IC, but maybe he would appreciate the fact that YOU are seeing a counselor.

I think you BOTH have to think things over very carefully, after all it has been quite complicated between you these last few years.

The fact that you didn't recover properly from his affairs means that that is also pending...

I think a cooling off period is necessary. That's just my opinion.

MEDC- geez, her husband had an affair too- she was trying to work it out. Why are you saying her affair was worse? So what it was his best friend- I didn't think there were "degrees" of badness in affairs...

I think it's ironic her husband's outrage- like he was so lily white...she can forgive but he shouldn't even try???

HTH

her H's affair was no better or worse. The fact is she decided to forgive. It would be nice if he wanted to do the same. He has made HIS choice to not do so...it is not up to you or I to tell him what to do regarding this. He has a right to make his own choice.

As far as trying to work it out...I don't see how she was doing that in her H's friends bed.

I feel bad for Brooke. I feel bad for her H. I just feel he has a right to divorce without complications if he chooses to do so. I would have told Brooke the same thing after her H's affair.

I think it's extremely unlikely that anyone this close to a traumatic shock is in any fit state to make life-changing decisions. I'm sure we've all been in positions where we thought we were acting rationally and with clear sight, only to realise later that our judgement was way off. Shock does that to people.

On a simple biological level, it takes time for the neural pathways to alter and develop to cope with the shock. We're talking months, not days.

MEDC, I sometimes get the impression that your purpose here is to prise every partnership apart. You seem have little respect for anyone who tolerates a less than perfect partner, which, by definition, is what most of us here are doing.

You have clearly not tolerated imperfection in your own partners. Do you believe every BS here is a fool?

TA

i think this is exactly why people are saying to stall.

thinking of you Brooke.

TA...since you obviously don't know what you are talking about regarding my life...let me give you a bit of info.

I took back a wife that cheated and worked towards recovery...she cheated again and forced a divorce.

I then spent year after year dealing with and trying to recover a relationship with my boys mom until she finally pushed it too far.

I hope Brooke and her H stay together. I am not trying to see them apart...but at the same time I do not feel as though a WS has a right to impose their will on a BS that has made a decision to leave.

Your post to me was rude and I would appreciate you never addressing me again.

eta..If you have a problem with my posts, contact a moderator. I have been given direct feedback from the moderators that my posts and messages are in concert with this boards mission.

Brooke
in reading the posts here.. are you getting a sense of the "agendas"..of each poster...
I counsel you to do what is "reasonable"
right now your H is acting with his bruised ego..he is moving way to fast..AGAIN..
didnt you say he regreted the email exposing your affair???
you still have "rights" in your marriage..
a marriage of 10 years deserves a more reasoned approach..
dont you think ???..
dont fear his responses...observe him and learn more about him.......AND yourself..
get a few others counselors advice..get insight into a males's EGO...
and
in a word.. cool down and STALL

jerseyboy

still thinking of you brooke!!! hang in there!!

Update. I am making very little progress where H is concerned. Unless it has to do with business (ie taxes or divorce) he has nothing to say to me.

I found out from a friend of mine that H's xOW has been sniffing around. She wanted to know the status of our marriage. Like MY friend would tell her anything. She told her to mind her own business and reminded her how she was dumped. You know if she would ask a friend of mine she must be desperate for information and on the prowl. When I found out both times H looked out only for himself and threw her under the bus. After d-day #2 she sent him many emails saying how much she hated him. Maybe she doesn't anymore. One more thing I have to deal with.

Is he willing to spend any time doing fun things with you?

Brooke, I hope you are still hanging on. Too little time has gone by, both of you are still under the emotional impact of your confession. How are you doing overall?

what does he say about the divorce? Have you told him you don't want a divorce?

sending you some hugs and prayers Brooke. I hope you can feel them!

That would be a no. His idea of a good time is discussing how we are going to divide our assets.

He let me have it earlier. He said that it kills him that I will get 50% of his assets and a court would more than likely give me SS after I destroyed his life. I told him money was the last thing on my mind. He says I am a liar and a fraud. He was really upset today. I tried to hug him and he pushed me away at first and then he hugged me back. I could tell he was really angry that he let it happen. I am not going to read anything into it. He still wants a divorce. I have a counseling session tomorrow. Hopefully I will be able to get some clarity from her.

I have told him that I do not want a divorce. I think I have done everything short of getting on my knees and begging him not to divorce me.

Brooke you've done great! There is only so much you CAN do.
"It's not over until the fat lady sings", thats' what I've been told.
Things have happened way too fast. Sometimes what is really needed is to "be still", like Ark has written in a famous post. (It's for betrayed spouses). That advice would be good for your H, because he's acting out of anger, and that is usually not good.

So YOU be still. Let him exhaust his anger.

Take care. I will pray for you.

dorry's thread

Brooke, check the above thread, it may be of interest to you.

Brooke,

When he talks about dividing assets, or anything divorce related, tell him

"I don't do divorce. I do marriage building. Let's talk about how to get this on track and fix what we need to fix. There is a way through this, and for us to be better at being married and in love."

If he does ultimately ask how, tell him about some of the things you have learned at MB.

And tell him that lots of people have made it past infidelity, by meeting each other's emotional needs and learning to work as a team together.

Just start with the basics.

SB

Brooke,
Keep in mind that many divorces are filed that are never finalized. My FWH file for divorce but then we worked things out.

One word of caution if your husband does file for divorce you will have certain time periods in which to file responses or they might be able to proceed without you.

I wish you the best.

Victoria

It certainly couldn't hurt for you to do just that.

I read dorry's thread. It was very inspiring but at the same time she did not sleep with her H's best friend. He has told me more than once he could have gotten past me having an affair. He told me he would not have given me grief about it. He can't get past the betrayal with his best friend and that he why he wants a divorce. He told me today he will never forgive me for robbing him of his best friend. If I did not know better I would think he was more heartbroken about not having J in his life anymore.

I am not getting anywhere with H. I know I need to give it more time and I will. H told me today that he was going to start dating. I was about ready to rip his head off and lash out at him for acting so childish but then I remembered what some of you keep on saying I can only control myself and not him. I told him that he had free will to do whatever he wanted. I could not go down this road again. The only place where I got snippy was when I said we were both adults and I felt like he was playing some kind of game. I told him we were both too old for games.

Then he told me since we were all about being honest now that he wanted to confess to me that he was in love with the OW and that he did consider leaving her for me. I knew he was trying to hurt me by telling me that. I thanked him for his honesty. That made him furious. So no matter what I do I cannot seem to get anywhere.

I know that H wants to make me angry and get some kind of reaction. I know he wants to hurt me and make me feel pain. Here is the thing that worries me. When H told me he was going to be dating I got mad because he was acting childish, not at the prospect of him dating an OW. When he told me was in love with the OW I did not really feel anything. If he had told me something like that over a year ago it would have put me in a depression for days.

I am just rambling now. Thanks for reading.

FinallyLrningT2H,

If you read this can you please e-mail me? I have something to ask you.

My email brooke0011@gmail.com

Brooke,

""He told me today he will never forgive me for robbing him of his best friend. ""

If he is speaking to the xBF he is probably saying approximately the same thing to him about you.

Stay strong and take care of yourself.

kirk

Brooke, you are really strong. You did well.

Yes, you can only control yourself.

Your H does sound like he is lashing out. He is very hurt but isn't it a little too cruel? has he been cruel before?

His best friend wasn't truly even a friend! How's their relationship now?

Brooke, consider how your H might interpret a response like that. Yes, he's being childish IMO, but OTOH maybe his fishing, trying to find out if you *really* want to restore your relationship with him. If I made a comment like that to my FWW and she responded the way that you did, I'd be left with the impression that she could not care less whether our M failed or not. Consider this - how could you have responded in a way that would have demonstrated to him that you were interested in recovering your M?



See my comment above. He might be trying to hurt you, but he also may be trying to find out how you really feel about recovering your R with him. He might have gotten furious over your response because he interpreted it as you being indifferent.

Brooke:

You doing really well. Your working with weak material (WH), but your doing well.

MiM has a point.

You didn't overreact and freak, and the way you wrote it, it looks like that was all WH was attempting to get from you. A reaction.

So send him a letter.

Main points:

1. I do marriage, I don't do divorce.
2. I would be crushed if you started dating. (again?) It makes recovery difficult.
3. I'm glad you finally confirmed your feelings for OW. That makes recovery for us easier. I will asume that you are no longer in love with your OW. Hopefully you can see that the feelings I may have had for OM will change and diminish over time as well, just like yours.
4. I understand that you considering leaving when you were in "love" with OW, but you stayed. Just like I am now.
5. We can fix this.

And we start with lovebusters. Respect for each other. There is ALOT to say to each other. And we need to say these things to get to recovery.

LG

This should worry you! This just doesn't make sense to me. If you feel this way I think you really need to consider that maybe YOU don't want to be married. Maybe your affair was both a revenge affair and an exit affair, a way to make him hurt the way he hurt you and make him leave you so you didn't have to be the one to make the decision to get divorced.

" Dear H,
I wanted to write you and tell you what I am thinking these days.
At first, I wanted to reconcile. I knew I made a big mistake, and I wanted to make up for it. I found the courage to tell you about it, even though it was difficult for me.
Did I do wrong? Yes
Big mistake? Yes.
Is calling it a big mistake an understatement? Yes, there is no way I can say in words how much I regret what has happened.

I can't say I understand it, and I haven't tried to justify it. I still feel terrible about it.

However, I still need to decide what to do now. I had hoped you would want to work on the marriage. I had hoped we could repair the damage, and make a new life together. Perhaps I was just dreaming.

There were a number of ways you could have reacted. You could have gotten angry, worked through it, and wanted to try. It appears that instead, you have chosen to to punish me, and rub it in my face over and over, as many times as you can. It looks like you are taking out your pain on me.

Perhaps I deserve it, I don't know, but I don't choose to stay in pain and misery.

Since I can't control you, you can continue to do whatever you want. Of course you are free, but so am I.


You have said you want to file for Divorce.
To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, there is a lot that has to be done. You are going to have to choose. If you don't choose, I will eventually get tired of being treated badly, and I will choose.

I am going to try to treat you with respect until we can solve the problem.

You can get angry when you read this, and you can do whatever you want. You can continue to be angry forever if you want to.

However, if you want to get over this, and work through it, we need to find a way to meet in the middle, and work through it. I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like badly, especially by the man I love.

I am not trying to be funny. I don't want to get a D, but I can't stop you if that is what you want. I want to be married to a man that I love and respect. I would suppose that you want that same thing in a women. If you feel you can forgive me, and if you want to grow old with me, then lets figure out how we can have the kind of relationship we both want. If you want to keep beating me up over and over, then keep doing it, and I am sure I'll get tired of it, and file eventually, if you don't do it first.

I really hope you think about it before you respond. I think we can still save it at this point, but the time will come when it will be beyond repair for either of us.

If you believe I am wrong, do whatever you feel you have to do.

Love Brooke"

If you feel this might be the right approach, you would have to modify this to fit the way you say things. I am not suggesting you use it word for word, but maybe it's time to give it to him plain. If this is what you have ALREADY communicated, I would suggest you back off, and have little contact with him for a few weeks to a month and let him work thorough it.

SS

Parts of that letter are great and parts of it would not be appropriate for such an early stage of this matter. It isn't time for Brooke to be discussing how she is being treated...or to suggest there will come a time when she will grow weary.

Eventually, I think this letter would be great...and might do well for someone like Cruise now. But for Brooke...I think it is way too soon.

I'm not sure I like the letter.

I think a bit more attention needs to be paid to how it may be interpreted by the BS.

If Brooke truly wants to reconcile, I recommend a simpler letter, in which she in this order:

(1) acknowledges the effect that her choices have had on his feelings,
(2)indicates how she currently feels about him,
(3) offers to do what it takes to reconcile and ensure that this never happens again.

I suggest NOT referring to him having the choice/free-will, etc, to do X, Y and Z, because that could be interpreted by her BS as flippant comments indicating a level of indifference to the pain he's going through.

Brooke,

I'm going to have to agree here with ccbis about your H lashing out. I KNOW first hand, how upsetting it can be to be a FWS and find out that your FBS was having an A of their own. The word hypocrite jumps into my mind.

But ever since your post about how your H lied and got you and xOM in the same room, I began to wonder. It's one thing to be angry, to lash out, to want the other person to hurt as much as you do. After all, you can't help your feelings.

But it's how you act on them that counts. Most likely, he couldn't help his feelings of attractiveness to the OW. But he should have learned from that message - he should not have acted on those feelings - rather looked at the deeper meaning, and gone to the source. Within himself and within the M.

You say he has been working on the M? But has he spent these years working on himself? Because his actions toward you now don't seem to be showing it.

By now, he should know the dynamic of an A. He's had plenty of time to learn. His anger is justified, but at the very least, he should be able to relate.

It really doesn't matter if it had been with his best friend or not. It may hurt more.....but an A is an A. And he's using this 'best friend' part as an excuse to justify his cruel behavior to you.

From what you've said, you've made it very clear, and tried very hard (while miraculously retaining your own composure) to show him that you want the M. And all he seems to be doing is trying to find more ways to beat you down. Almost like he doesn't want you to be a 'weak' person. And that's not healthy.

I would ask you to seriously consider your lack of feeling with regards to him going back to OW. Some people do have exit A's - in fact many people do. I actually think mine was one, because I can pinpoint the day, the place, and the moment where I emotionally checked out of my M.

That didn't mean that I didn't want to recover. But it meant that if the relationship was going to stay the same, I didn't want to be in it anymore. I just didn't have the strength to be the 'bad one'.

But MB gave me the hope for change, and I couldn't have asked for a bigger blessing.

You may have had an exit A. Maybe not the right thing to do, but you may have emotionally checked out a while back. The fact that you came here and began posting shows me that you do have some feeling left. But I don't think there's much in your love bank right now. And your H's actions are only making it worse.

He's going to have to step up to the plate. Yes, we all sympathize with him in a way - he now knows the pain of being betrayed. But he also has had the experience of causing that pain as well. And, yet, even though he's 'worked' for 2 years on all this....he still lacks the forethought to put himself in your shoes.

Continue doing what you are doing. I respect the fact that you have not let him goad you on. Stand up proudly, and continue to do the right thing. He may come around, he may not. But begin working on yourself.

Figure out why you were so resistant to forgiving him for his A. Find out why you ended up making the same choice that he did. Find out what it was within YOU that did not allow you to 'resolve' the M before you went elsewhere. These are all things that will be important to you as an individual.

You're doing very well. Keep up the good work.

L

No he has not been deliberately cruel in the past. He considers what I did to be the ultimate betrayal. He says getting involved with xOM was no different than getting involved with one of his brothers. I am on his ****** list so therefore I get treated like I am the enemy. I don't know how much longer I can keep my composure. I needed to talk to him about some property we own. The HOA sent a letter about something that we are supposedly not in compliance with. I tried his cell and he did not answer. I then called his office and he told his secretary to inform me that if I wanted any of his time to make an appointment. I could tell she hated telling me that. He has never ever done that to me before. I think I will march down to his office and have it out with him. How dare he has his assistant tell me that. He does not have the balls to tell me f2f? He's really good at putting ppl in their place but he pushed me too far today.

It was.



I agree 100%.



He has a right to shut you out of he so choses. Marching down there is trying to control something that he is doing. You have no right to do that. Worry about your own actions and reactions.



I think he told you exactly what he wants..and he did it face to face.

I think you should calm down before you make this even worse than it is.



you slept with his best friend...I think you should count your lucky stars that he hasn't done anything else.

Relax...just control yourself...not him.

mkeverydaycnt,

That's what I kept telling myself. I could only control myself. In the end it took some research but I took steps to fix the problem myself. I faxed him the letter. I did not make a scene in his office or attempt to contact him again.

Brooke, for whatever it's worth, I think you did the right thing.

And I still think that your H is being particularly and unnecessarily cruel. Especially since you "forgave" his affairs.

If he wants a divorce,he is entitled to it and he should just get it. All this aggression is not necessary.

Lie low. You've done your part.

Brooke,

I'm so glad you did NOT march down to his office!!! That would not of helped anything.

Honestly, i wonder what would of happened if instead you happily said ok to the secretary, "tell me what time you can give me an appointment". that would of been my advice. do exactly as he asked. and then be very respectful of him during that appointment, talk only about the HOA issue and nothing else. what impact might that have on him? is it too late to do this? i know you said you faxed him the letter but did you include the information of how you too steps to fix the problem?

Brooke,

I would love to know how you are doing. I've kept you in my prayers all week.

Hi Brooke,

I have also been following your thread closely, but this is my first post. How are things going? Have you made any progress?

I hate to be negative, but seeing how you have do kids and all your families are involved in the drama, how would you feel about getting divorced? You seem somewhat ambivalent, and have admitted you don't love your husband anymore. Perhaps it would be best for you both to go your own ways?

Plus Jason said he loves you, so there's always that possibility...

barf...

To be honest, I threw that out there more to test how strong her commitment to this marriage really is. It doesn't seem like she's that invested in her husband, and he clearly senses it.

When asked if she loved another man, she basically confirmed it. Why would he want to stay? I know all the stuff about the "fog" but honestly, most men would not want to sit around and try and convince their cheating wife to love them again. More power to those of you that did, but I've read your threads and you all seem to have gone through tremendous hardship and pain to get there.

Brooke and her husband have no children. She has humiliated him in front of his family and friends and stripped him of his two best friends (OM and B). They have both cheated on each other and have admitted to having very little love left for each other. Sometimes divorce is the best option, even SH says so.

If Brooke is thinking about Jason at all, she should get divorced. If she's not 100% committed to her marriage, she should get divorced.
If she isn't capable of loving her husband, and ONLY her husband completely with NC w/any other men, then she should get divorced.

It's just my opinion, but there it is.

Brooke, I hope you find a minute to let us know how you are.

It's very hard for me to post this. I have no good news to report. Life altering news more like it. Right around the time the board went down I found out I was pregnant. Because of my due date it's impossible for H to be the father. I told him and he is now very agressively pursuing the divorce. Given the circumstances I feel I have no right to fight the divorce. Devastated does not even begin to describle how H feels. I was a basketcase and did not want to get out of bed but I brought all of this on myself and deserve any and all consequences that come my way.

After I dropped the bomb on him he told me that he had decided to see my counselor. He had not decided to R but he thought we needed to see a profesional to make the transition one way or the other. After I told him of my pregnancy that was off the table. I don't blame him at all. He has put up with a lot more than I would have.

I believe if I were not pregnant or if he were the father we would have had a chance. Now it's just not going to happen.

Brooke,

I don't know what to say....except that sometimes God has an odd way of teaching us lessons.

Sometimes, it is to teach us humility.

You are remorseful for what you did. There is still a chance for your marriage, albeit very small. If he was willing to go to counseling before, he may be willing to go again, once his anger subsides a little. He was right about both of you needing help getting through all this. Like I've said before, divorce will not take the pain away. If he proceeds with the divorce, he will find that out sooner rather than later.

For now, focus on yourself, continue to be honest, and turn it over to God (or whomever your higher power is). It's the best thing you can do for your marriage, your baby, and yourself.

Many hugs...

LIT

Did Brooke ever mention a 'name' for xOM?

Or, Thambi, do you know Brooke personally?

And, for once, MEDC, I agree with you

Brooke,

I've been reading since you first came here but left the advice to other vets, who I think steered you correctly. WWs don't usually come here and if they do they usually leave really quickly after the advice they're given isn't 'understanding' or 'compassionate' by their standards. Or they can stick around and get treated very harshly due to their fogged-out tendencies.

You, however, have continued to have supporters here and I think that is due to the fact that you've generally followed the advice given and shown a repentant heart. Not too common among WWs, IMO.

Your sense that the pregnancy by another man is a deal-breaker is probably spot on. I think very few men could handle that. There has been some debate here as to whether or not you fighting the divorce is acceptable considering you are the WS. I agree that the pregnancy news tips the argument in favor of not fighting the divorce.

How are you 100% sure who is the dad?

Brooke, thank you for again being so honest.

I really don't know what to say. Pregnancy is often the consequence of an affair. the pregnancy can seem like a curse now, but the child, is a blessing as you will find out in a few months. Every child is.

As Mortarman has explained, God may forgive our sins but that doesn't mean He takes away the consequences of our sins. So we must humbly accept them, like we admitted our sin.

I really admire how courageous you have been and once again, I believe you did the right thing, being honest with your husband. I agree that right now, unfortunately the marriage will probably not survive as a consequence of your actions. But that doesn't mean that it's YOU who has to go out and ask for a divorce. It's in your H's hands. I think you should accept whatever he does.

You now have another huge responsibility. You have to take care of yourself for the child's sake. You have to find the strength to take care of yourself, no one else can do this for you and the child.

Do you have any support? family? friends?

I wish I could be there for you... a repented WS is in a very tough situation.

I agree that you should take care of yourself for the baby.

I also strongly believe that you need to bend over backwards for your STBX H. He is the victim here. While you have to deal with the consequences of your affair, your H should be allowed to walk away from this marriage financially intact. You owe him that much.

Take care of your baby and strongly consider putting the child up for adoption. Every child is a blessing and should be given a great shot at a happy life. It sounds like you have a lot of maturing to do and I worry about your ability to be a good mom at this point. I don't say that to slam you...as I really admire your honesty here. The primary concern through all of this should be what is in the child's best interest.

If you decide to keep the baby, PLEASE do not EVER consider having a relationship with the affair partner again. If you do, you will continuing your sin and making your child pay for your mistakes. The OM should get to be a father to the child if you do not put it up for adoption...but nothing more. He is scum. Remember that.

Brooke:

This is a dark time in your life.

But you have been persuing the light.

Being honest with your HUsband, Family and everyone else.

Imagine telling your Husband about the Affair NOW with the fact of the pregnancy.

DO not do anything rash.

Take care of yourself, and your baby.

If your Wayward Husband wants to go, let him. It's probably for the best, because MEDC is right, he is scum.

I understand that MEDC was referring to your AP, but I would apply the same to your Wayward Husband as well. Your WH is more concerned about losing his buddy, than his wife...

Your wayward husband has ALOT to learn about forgiveness.

Either way, DO not do anything drastic. TIME is needed here.

Allow emotions to cool. Perspective to be gained. And then choices made. Adoption, Divorce, Remarriage, whatever. They DO NOT have to be made today. They have to be made, but do not make any of them under duress. Or to please a wayward husband.

Hi Brooke,

I'm sorry for your plight.

I have a question and of course you don't have to answer it if you don't want to.

My business law professor is also a praticing attorney. He sounds, to me, just like your OM. Any chance your OM teaches a class at a University?

This same professor also had a black eye a week or so ago and was in a really bad mood yesterday.

If by any stretch of the imagination this could be the same guy, I would run as far away from him as I could. The stuff he has told us in class.....well, let's just say he is NOT to be trusted in the fidelity department, ever.

I realize this is a long shot, but you never know.

Brooke-

I'm very sorry to hear this. I agree with the other posters, it's time to let your husband go. However, I don't agree with the above viewpoint. Maybe this is what you and J needed to move forward together? After all you two are having a child together. Perhaps you can explore your relationship now more freely.

As for your husband, please don't put him through anymore pain. In most states, if a child is born within a marriage, it's presumed the husband is the father regardless of testimony or evidence. Please do not force your husband to pay for/be legally responsible for this child. You will ruin him. He will be forced every day to look at a baby that is a direct reminder of the terribl betrayal wrought on him by the two people he loves most. Almost anyone would crack under the pressure.

I'm sorry but I just don't see how this marriage has any hope. There already wasn't much before, and now this seals the deal. Just let your husband go while still financially intact and figure out what to do with your life. And remember, both abortion and adoption are options; it's better than bringing a child into the world you are not ready to raise.

Also not to beat a dead horse, but I think in light of the latest information, it's time to acknowledge the correct answer to Brooke's original query:

Is confessing always the right thing to do?

YES!!!

If you hadn't confessed, you would have probably continued on the way you were going. Then you would have found out you were pregnant, with the same due date. Your husband isn't stupid. He would have added two and two together. Think about this- if you telling him you had an affair with OM and ended it lead him to start a "knock down drag out" brawl in the front yard, imagine what finding out his seemingly faithful wife was pregnant by another man would do? He might have killed him.

Or he might not have figured it out. You would have known, and forced him to take legal responsability for a child that isn't even his. And what if the child is born looking just like OM? I could go on and on...

The moral is, TELL THE TRUTH, CONFESS, REPENT, whatever. Just do it now, before it's too late.

I find it very interesting that your very first post was to Brooke and that you name OM by name. It's almost as if you have a vested interest in the outcome of Brooke's situation.

What's YOUR story Thambi? Why so much interest in this particular one?

Your advice is very telling.

I'm very curious about this too.

Brooke~

All is not necessarily lost here, though it may *appear* that way at the moment.

IF you want your M, and if you still love your H, you NEED to tell him both of these things, ASAP!

Hugs,

from a woman who refused to lose hope in the face of a seemingly hopeless situation, refused to give up on the M she destroyed, and the mother of a very dear, sweet OC who is the light of bh's life.

I agree with MEDC:

"Brooke, your brothers advice is evil. Keeping anyone in the dark about harm that has been done to them is wrong. If you fail to tell your H the truth you are choosing to be a bad person. You made a mistake...own up to it and move forward. Every single day that you choose to keep your H in the dark is another crime against him. Every day is another day that you are choosing to be a bad person. Turn from these ways and make decisions that are rooted in truth and character."

You are justifying that it is 'over'... but until the deception ends it is not over. You and your husband's former best friend are still being dishonest with your husband.

Odds are your husband will find out eventually anyway. And then he will have the added hurt of knowing that you continued to lie to him, plus the humiliation of realizing that you and his supposed 'friend' continued contact with each other, sharing a secret he was deprived knowledge of.

You need to end all contact with the OM. How will that be possible if your husband is not informed of his former friend's betrayal? You can too easily exploit your husband's ignorance of the adultery as a way to continue contact with the OM. Your husband will have no reason to stop having contact with the OM until the truth is exposed, right? So you and the OM will still have some contact with each other as long as you keep deceiving your husband.

As others have already stated, your husband's friendship with the OM is already over, your husband just hasn't been made aware yet that the man he still thinks of as a friend is now actually his enemy. To enable your husband's enemy to continue to pretend friendship would be horribly cruel and disrespectful to your husband. You need to end all contact with the OM immediately and completely. Until you do that you are not really a former WS yet.

Then you need to let your husband make his OWN decisions about any future relationship with you or his former best friend.

Mere, from what I understand, she's not hiding anything from her husband. He already knows about OM/XBF and the baby and has NO contact with OM.

I haven't posted on Brooke's thread before...she's been getting such great advice...but, I had to respond to the above comment.

Thambi, WHY in the world would you encourage Brooke to pursue a relationship with OM? It appears that you have NO knowledge of MB principals. The good people here are trying to advise her on how to achieve personal (and possibly marital) recovery after her A, and their advice has been spot on.

(((Brooke))) I pray that both you and your H find peace in the midst of this devastating situation.

Lori

My story is that my fiance cheated on me. I came on here and lurked to learn more about why people cheat and whether or not they can recover. We couldn't but the Harley's did help me become a better person. I've called into Harley's radio show but hadn't posted on here yet. I don't want to threadjack this thread, but there it is since you asked.

I don't know OP personally...she used the name Jason earlier in this post. Sorry if I'm a little more observant than you.

As for recovering the marriage, even SH says that not all marriages CAN or SHOULD be recovered. This seems like one of those cases to me. Brooke has admitted to cheating on her husband with his best friend and getting pregnant. The two of them (H and OM) got into a physical confrontation. H has shown no interest in R. Brooke has not definitively said either than she wants to stay with husband or that she loves him.

For R to happen, at least one of the two has to be firmly committed to it. If neither is interested, what's the point?

Autumn Day, your husband is a great man and I commend him for his choices. With that being said, 90% of men would not put up with what he has. You say it's because he has such love for you, and I believe it. But the fact Brooke's H wants to leave doesn't make him bad or mean that he loves her less. Any man would be justified in leaving in this situation. It's got nothing to do with how much love they have. Raising another man's child is not part of the marriage covenant. Even the Bible says that divorce is justified in instances of infidelity.

Normally I think R is great. But look at this situation. Add that the two have no kids, that both have been actively seeking out affairs and distancing from each other, and now on top of it she is pregnant with OC. What exactly are they fighting for? If there is something worth saving, only Brooke can tell us that, not any of you people. I'm still waiting to hear from her.

And before you try and make me out to be the bad guy, I never advocated divorce or anything before the pregnancy. The thing about her pursuing a relationship with OM was just to see if it was something she still was considering. Anyhow, that's my story. Take it as you like.

"Mere, from what I understand, she's not hiding anything from her husband. He already knows about OM/XBF and the baby and has NO contact with OM."

Yes, I've been trying to read the whole thread... got to the part where she did confess to her husband. (But not to any mention of a baby yet!) Have to go for now and will try to catch up later.

we are all adults here. there is no need for your little tests. It comes across as you advocating a relationship that was borne out of an affair.

Thambi~

I'd be very interested in seeing where you found the 90% statistic, if you'd like to start a new thread about it.

I never once said, or even intimated Brooke's H is a bad/mean man or loves her less for wanting a D.

Further, I never said or even implied Brooke's H has no right under God to D her. He most certainly does.

All I told her is there's still hope and that IF she wants her M and she still loves her H, she needs to tell him. I gave her absolutely no promises or guarantees.

There are plenty of naysayers around here.

I choose to show her the little glimmer of hope, no matter how slight it may be.

Exactly! This is a MB site after all. Brook's got a hard road ahead IF she wants to try and recover her marriage and the odds are stacked against her. BUT, I've seen worse situations recover. There's always hope.

The 90% wasn't a real stat. It was just a guess on my part. Sorry for that.

Also sorry if that comment or "test" was not appropriate. I was just trying to get Brooke to tell us what she is thinking.

As for worse situations, can you tell us about them or maybe provide a link?

Everything in this situation screams hopeless to me. H's Affair. Brooke's revenge/exit affair. That OM was H's bff to boot. That when given the opportunity to comfort him and tell him that she loves him and wants to stay, she told him she wasn't sure and basically confirmed that she is still in love w/OM, a situation he clearly said he'd "have to be crazy" to tolerate.

And now she is carrying OM's, his BFF's baby. It's not Autumn Day's situation at all. OM is not some far off image that can disappear. He is the H's best friend. Even if there is NC, H's parents, friends and everyone else all know what is happening, and they all know OM. When the baby gets older and looks like OM, everyone will know what is happening.

This is a nightmare. If you see hope, well I have some property down in Florida I want to sell you...

TheRoad,

I was not exaggerating when I said we lived separate lives. There is no way H could be the father.

ccbis,

Thank you for your support. I have family and friends who are very supportive. My parents consider this baby the one bright spot in this situation and can't wait to become grandparents. I will not start divorce proceedings but I will not hamper them either.

mopey,

xOM is not a professor of business law.

Thambi,

xOM and I have no future together even with a child. It would never work. It would cause H additional pain which I have been trying to prevent very unsuccessfully. I would also be embarrassed for us to be seen in public together as a couple. I still have very strong feelings for him but it does not change our history. My goal is to have a successful co-parenting relationship should he choose to be involved.

There have been some questions about who the legal father would be. H researched this and he told me that he would be the presumed father if we are married or divorced BUT it can be rebutted with a DNA test and/or xOM acknowledging paternity. He will not be on the hook as the legal father.

Brooke, you're going to need the support and I'm glad your parents see the bright spot.

Things have progressed much too fast, hopefully they will slow down a bit and everyone can catch their breath!

What's your home situation like now and what perspectives are there? Will you stay where you are? I know your H is living somewhere else.

It must seem very dark around you right now, but I believe you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. You have the courage in you to do what's right.

Brooke,

You have presented a very challenging situation to all here and certainly to yourself. Your H cheated on you and the marriage was never recovered. You had an affair with H's best friend and the marriage was on life support. You find out you are pregnant, it is most likely NOT your H's, and the marriage is probably dead.

You have had people on here telling you what THEY would do. You have had people on here telling you that you OWE everything to poor H because you cheated with his best friend, assuming that cheating with someone else would have been better. No way.

So given you have gotten everyone elses advice with your permission I will add my advice to the list.

One, your affair was a very very bad way to deal with what you were going through in your life (including your H's affair). You need to address this and develop a much more productive way of addressing life's issues. Counseling would help here considerably.

Two, if you can speak with Autumn Day at length. I beleive she can offer you some insights that might help you adjust to what is likely to be your future after marriage. She had to face such a situation although her H did in fact forgive her. She has much to offer you.

Three, your H's "best friend" was NOT a best friend, and while you have responsibility for your affair and the aftermath, sooner or later your H is going to have to face the fact that he seems to have selected a friend with the same moral compass as he had/has. Leave it to him to sort this out. Lay down the burden of what your OM did to his "best friend". It is not yours.

Four, whatever you decide about your pregnancy, please consider that you do have a future. YOu can learn and grow from this. All is not lost if you face this challenge in your life. You have in fact learned something and used what you learned, honesty was/is/always will be the best policy. A previous poster pointed out to you that very thing. Believe it.

Five, while you grieve the loss of your marriage, I think you have learned some very important things about the people you have been surrounding yourself with. To my mind, one of the top things is that they have not been good for you or your life. All of you are going to pick up the tab for this one. But only those (I hope it is at least you) that change their ways, grow, learn, and become people with good boundaries will ultimately find happiness and respect. My advice, pick better friends, pick a better spouse, and finally be a better spouse and friend.

Brooke, your situation sadly is not unique. Your future is still yours to make. Work on doing a good job of making your future something that you are proud of and that you and your family will respect.

Finally, do not let your H run over you in the divorce proceedings. He does not deserve to be taken advantage of in court, but he does not deserve to be given any gifts either.

I hope something I have said is of use to you.

Hang in there,

JL

Thambi,


Please understand that Brooke at this point is still at the point where the fog has not yet cleared. It would have been wrong for her to be anything less than truthful with him. Many BS here have had to deal with lengthly on-going affairs where their WS completely believed that the OP was their soulmate. However, once the affair ended, they were still able to recover their marriages.

I can think of at least one BW here, sorry but I can't remember her user name, where her WH fathered more than one child with the OW and ultimately, she and her then FWH adopted the children.

Nothing is ever completely hopeless. While I agree that the chances of Brooke and her BH/WH recovering their marriage are very small, they are in no way completely impossible.

As far as even jokingly suggesting that Brooke possibly consider a relationship with the OM, well that kind of confirms that you aren't very familiar with MB principles at all.

Who

I don't know about links (since the MB board reformatted) but I personally know of one situation personally that was worse than this where BH murdered OM and BH and WW reconciled.

As far as similiar circumstances, before the board overhaul you could read stories in the Pregnancy/Child Forum that told of similiar situations and recovery.

"MEDC- geez, her husband had an affair too- she was trying to work it out. Why are you saying her affair was worse? So what it was his best friend- I didn't think there were "degrees" of badness in affairs...

I think it's ironic her husband's outrage- like he was so lily white...she can forgive but he shouldn't even try???

HTH"

Actually, she admitted from the beginning of her posting here that although she did not divorce her husband for cheating on her, she refused to work on the marriage herself and didn't really allow her husband to feel forgiven. And this was not merely an initial reaction to her husband's adultery either, from which she eventually cooled down, forgave her husband, and joined his efforts to repair the marriage. Her husband is still reeling from being betrayed by his wife, his best friend, AND from years of enduring his wife's unforgiveness, her refusal to give him credit for the work he did to repair the damage caused by his past adulteries, let alone join him in the recovery efforts.

IMHO this was a revenge adultery. The consoling each other about the death of the OM's sister was the justification they used to give themselves permission and/or the foolish mistake they made to put themselves at risk... but it was still the lack of forgiveness which led to the revenge adultery.

Of course she did not have to forgive him or stay married to him. And it is not easy and sometimes not even possible for the betrayed to forgive. The betrayers are not entitled to expect forgiveness from the betrayed. I can certainly understand how sometimes the betrayed really does want to forgive but the betrayer's lack of remorse or unwillingness to make ammends prevents recovery. But sometimes (less often) the betrayer does show remorse and does the needed work but the betrayed chooses revenge instead of forgiveness.

I don't remember her saying anything about her husband excusing his own adultery or pretending that he was 'lily white'. According to her he did try to repair the harm he caused but she did not forgive him. It was her refusal to forgive, and now the revelation that she is not so 'lily white' herself, that is probably behind a lot of her husband's current anger.

I'm not in any way trying to take any credit away from Brooke. She did the right thing to confess. (The fact that her husband is having such a hard time processing this revelation of betrayal in no way would have justified the betrayal being continued even longer BTW. Brooke seems capable and willing to accept that so the criticisms that she should have stalled confessing even longer are pretty lame IMHO. Her husband's reaction would have been even worse the longer the betrayal went on.)

Brooke - I think you showed integrity and courage to confess.
Your husband's reaction is quite understandable and normal. You have given him a lot to process and maybe someday he will be able to forgive you.

But IMHO you have no right to stall a divorce. You had the right to divorce him without delay when you learned of his adulteries or to choose to stay married, work on the marriage, and forgive him.

Whether or not to forgive and whether or not to stay married are two separate decisions. The betrayed can choose to:

forgive and stay married
forgive but divorce
not forgive and divorce
not forgive but stay married

Apparently you chose to stay married but not to fogive. That was vengence, correct? IMHO your husband is partly angry over all the effort he put into recovery while you withheld forgiveness. His current vengefulness is an echo of, and an understandable reaction to, your own choice of revenge over forgiveness. His behavior is more an indicator of how cruelly vengeful you've been than of him supposedly being unusually cruel. He is reeling over the hypocrasy and injustice as well as the betrayals. I believe you are doing the honorable thing Brooke in acknowledging this. You don't seem to be here seeking 'support' or justification for what you've done and that is most admirable (and refreshing).

Take care of yourself. Keep going to counseling. Keep taking responsibility, apologizing, and making whatever ammends possible.

great post MM.

Separate lives? I thought you were married and living together.
Was there no SF between BH and you? For how long and was BH o'k with going without SF? How were your feelings on having a dry spell with your BH?

Thambi -

The opinion/advice you give only makes sense if you know nothing whatsoever about the fog of infidelity:

"If Brooke is thinking about Jason at all, she should get divorced. If she's not 100% committed to her marriage, she should get divorced.
If she isn't capable of loving her husband, and ONLY her husband completely with NC w/any other men, then she should get divorced."

ALL fogged adulterers will tell you that they are thinking about their adultery partner, that they don't feel 100% committed to their marriage, that they don't believe they are capable of ever loving their betrayed spouse again, ONLY their betrayed spouse, and that they can't/won't go completely NC with the OP.

It's just fog-babble and should never be taken seriously. It takes at least 3 weeks to 6 months of no contact to defog. Making an important decision like divorce while still in some fog is very bad advice.

And Brooke doesn't seme to be here seeking justification to continue or restart the adultery anyway so any such 'support' or encouragement for resuming the adultery makes even less sense.

Of course her betrayed husband has every right to divorce, quickly even, if he chooses to... but if she still has ANY desire to save her marriage she should not initiate a divorce herself. And she doesn't really have any moral grounds for divorce anyway.

The suggestion that she restart the adultery, as if that could possibly be a good option, IMHO does not even belong at MB's.
Not only is it in direct conflict with MB principles, it is highly offensive and hurtful to betrayed spouses to read such pro-adultery suggestions here.

Great post, JL. (as usual!)

Brooke,

It's hard to see the situation you are in and not sympathize with you. The odds are not in your favor - but yes, there have been many others who have returned with a marriage from similar situations. There is one such marriage in my own extended family.

It does happen. But it takes both partners wanting the marriage, and both working for it. Maybe your husband will make a change for that, maybe he won't. In the final analysis, it is his decision, and you are right to recognize that.

I have to say this about Brooke - you came here and asked what the morally correct thing to do would be. You knew what it would be, that it would be hard, and you listened. You then did the RIGHT thing, in spite of it being the very thing that would be the most difficult and disruptive thing for yourself.

Now, you see that your husband has the right to divorce you, even though you know that it will hurt you in the end. Again, you see the situation for what it is, and you accept it.

You are out of the selfish cycle in your own life, to be sure, Brooke. You are in a new place - not in the same place you were in when you were having the affair. You are clearly on a path to do the right thing.

The child you are carrying has a good mother in you, Brooke. She (he?) will have have someone who no longer focuses on ME ME ME and what "feels good". Nope. This Brooke focuses on what the real situation is, asks others what the RIGHT thing to do is,

and DOES IT.

Even when it is hard
even when it is unpopular
even when it might require personal sacrifice


Now............


These lessons could have been learned in an easier way, true enough.

But you have learned them.


And I think I see you living them - your posts show you moving in the right direction, away from selfish affair-minded life, and toward

I guess we don't quite know yet!

But I think it is toward something better. It must be better, because your mind and decisions look better, at least on cyber-paper.

You hang in there, Brooke.
Your parents sound like keepers. And your baby, she (he?) is a keeper, too. You yourself are working into being a keeper, because you are a quick study of the lessons of this life.

Good luck.
Schoolbus

ccbis,

I have a very strong support network. As for the house situation H told me he does not want it. As time goes by I don't want to stay here either. My parents have been encouraging me to move back home. I don't think that is the right option for me. I have never truly been on my own or lived by myself. I will probably end up buying a house close to them after the divorce is finalized.

TheRoad,

After I found out about his affair it was very hard for me to be intimate with him. I am not saying I have not had sex with H at all in the last 2 years but it was very rare. We really have lived very separate disfunctional lives. This was very difficult for H and we argued about it. I guess he viewed it as a long term punishment from me bec of his affair. To me I think it was a mental thing because I had such a difficult time being intimate with someone who I did not trust. I know that sounds very hypocritical coming from me but that was how I felt.

The reason I am certain H cannot be the father is the last time we had sex was in December of 07. I conceived in Feb 08. It's not possible for him to be the father.

MM,

I don't believe I had a revenge affair. That might be hard to comprehend but it really wasn't. I have had a lot of time to think about that one. If I wanted a revenge affair I would have done it way back when. I have a hard time saying this because it sounds like I am not taking responsibility and making excuses but when xOM and I got involved we were at the lowest points in our lives. I am not pleading insanity but I don't believe we would have gotten involved like that if we were not at such a low point. I was more devastated by her death than by H's affair. He was still alive and I would NEVER see her again.

I never viewed xOM as anything more than a friend until we started spending all our time together. I did not say to myself oh now is my chance to finally get my revenge when I realized xOM's feelings changed for me. My affair happened because I was weak, selfish and chose not to deal with my problems. Revenge had nothing to do with it.

Brooke,

I have to tell you that you seem like you are going to be fine. Obviously divorce and some rough times are ahead of you...but I get the impression that you have learned a lot and will come out of this mess battered but not beaten.

I wish you the best.

MEDC

Let me toss my spanner in the works if you will.

Is her husband even allowed to get a divorce while she is pregnant? I believe that is part of the filing, a statement of being pregnant or not.

If she is pregnant, it may make it difficult, if not impossible for him to seek a divorce if he wants one.

At the very least, he may be required to prove that he is not the father of the child.

It is indeed a messy situation.

It's good to hear from you Brooke.

I think you are making the right decisions.

I also think you can see quite clearly what happened and you have learned from the experience. The road ahead won't be easy, but I trust you will walk it successfully.