Its my first day on the forum, and I've read a lot of the posts. However, I don't know any of the acronyms, so I apologize in advance.

My wife and I have been married for about 3 1/2 years and we've been together in a committed relationship for about 8. We don't have any children and we both work a ton of hours at work. We lived together for a long time before we got married. Shortly before our first anniversary I became physically involved with a co-worker. She and I were friends that would go out with a group and have drinks pretty regularly, and there was an obvious connection from the start. I didn't want to cheat on my wife, but our sex life was already pretty non-existent and we were only in our marriage for less than a year. Rather than doing what I should have done and talked to my wife about our problem, I made the worst decision I could ever have made. I rationalized it from the outset that it would just be a short-term thing, and the other woman would get tired of it and somehow it would be good for my marriage. I really thought that she wouldn't be interested once she could have what she previously couldn't have. I was wrong.

2 1/2 years later the affair was still continuing. There was an intense emotional connection with the other woman, but an even more intense sexual connection. As I said, we worked together, and at first we would both get to work early so that we could make out or I would go to her house and have sex before work. Lunch almost always brought a trip to her house. After work happened 2-4 times a week. That continued for about 8 months until she got another job. At the time, I told myself that her getting another job was an opportunity for me to get away from her and try to fix things with my wife. By that point, I was very addicted. I would try to leave, and could not go without contact with her. I could handle physical separation for about a week at the longest. During my relationship with the other woman, I would try to get away and she would always pull me back in, and I was so addicted that I wanted to be. Any time I tried to leave, she had a new tragedy that she would introduce that would bring me back in (threats of suicide, threats of telling my wife, family illness, two separate cancer scares, etc.). There is no question that we were both heavily addicted to one another. We would both manipulate one another to get the other to stay, and it lasted for a long, long time.

The physical aspect of our affair declined, but was still very physical the entire time. However, the emotional connection only became greater. She became my best friend, lover, companion, everything. Before the affair, my wife had been all of those things to me, and I ruined that with the affair.

Despite all of that, I never wanted to leave my wife (partly for wrong reasons like not wanting to hurt her, partly for legitimate reasons like me believing that she was just the better woman). I always felt like this affair was just me acting in an immature way (which was true), but that I would want to be with my wife when I was ready to mature. I recognized that many of the things that attracted me to the other woman were very superficial, and many of the things that made me love my wife were very real. When the other woman would talk about getting married, it made me feel extremely uncomfortable, and the only thing I could think about was my only wedding day. I always wanted my wife to be the mother of my children.

For over two years, I lived with the daily dilemma of which road I wanted to go down. I thought about leaving my wife constantly, but only acted on it on two occasions, and both of those were the two times that the other woman threatened to leave me. The first time the other woman came back, I went back to my wife, and we continued the affair for another 14 months. The second time she left for good, and wanted nothing to do with me.

Long story short, the other woman shut it off on New Year's. I think must have been her New Year's Resolution. I went through a terrible bout of withdrawal, and my wife has stood by me. I'm about 3 months in, and the withdrawal is better, but still terrible. I really do love my wife (laugh if you want), and I really do want to fix things. But, I still have hourly thoughts about the other woman. I still question whether or not I let the perfect relationship get away. I was "in love" with the other woman, and I can't convince myself that it wouldn't have stayed that way forever. I'm the textbook feeling of "She just made me feel alive again." I have read and read about how that feeling was eventually going to go away, and I have read about how the other woman wasn't as great as I made her out to me. I have no interest in talking to the other woman, or being with her, or seeing her, but I still compare the "high" of my relationship with her to my relationship with my wife, and it just can't compete. No matter how much I want it to. I have very little interest in having sex with my wife. Like I said, it had declined before, and now it simply can't compete with what I had with the other woman. And I just don't generally feel like I have fun with my wife like what I had with the other woman.

I love my wife, and I've read several discussions of people making fun of this statement, but I just missed being "in love" with her. I was immature, and didn't know what real love was and that "in love" is really more of an infatuation than it is a real state of love. I want to find happiness with my wife that brings the type of happiness to BOTH OF US that feeling of being "in love" brought us, but to have with a mature love.

I'm just here looking for help, criticisms, encouragement, or just some simple discussion. My therapist tells me that I'm a mess so I'm prepared for anything and everything. Thanks for reading. Just typing it helped.

Welcome to MB. I guess since you are here I will assume you are sincere in wanting to save your marriage. Be warned there are many hurting BS's here that will not like what you said about the OW. I am both the FWW and the BW. My FWH had 2 A's with x g/f's. The 2nd one produced a child. That A lasted nearly 3 years and nearly drove me to the brink of insanity. We are now in recovery, though it is slow and painful.

You say the OW ended the A on NYE? Have you had any contact with her? Do you continue to encounter her professionally even though you don't work together any more? Do you have mutual friends who are keeping you up on her life? I ask these questions because you don't sound like you are in withdrawl, you sound extremely foggy to me.

You need to find a way to end any positive thoughts about the OW and your adultery. This so called "intense connection" was built upon the back of your faithful wife. The sex you had with the OW was no prettier than two dogs in heat. Whatever your reasoning for what you did, it was wrong and extremely damaging to the one you promised to be faithful to, to protect and care for til death do you part.

How is your W doing? Have you answered all of her questions openly and honestly? Have you given her full access to your cell phone, email passwords, and cell phone records?

Have you purchased and read "Surviving An Affair" by Willard Harley? Another one I recommend. especially for the wayward partner, is "After the Affair" by Janis Abrams Spring.

BTW, that "in love" feeling you missed with your wife? It was up to YOU to keep that going. What you had with the OW was infatuation and excitment of the secrecy, not the drudgery of daily married life. OW did not do your laundry, pay the bills, clean the house, cook the meals, pick up your dirty socks etc. You get the picture.

Stick around, you will learn alot.

Faithful,

Thanks for responding. I'll try to answer/respond to what you've said-

The last time I spoke with her or had any contact with the other woman was the weekend after New Year's Eve. I tried to talk her out of leaving me, and it didn't work. I haven't emailed her, called her, or anything since that time, and she hasn't me either. She had finally had enough of it, and I knew it. We have no mutual friends. Any free time that I had away from marriage, I wanted to spend with her, and any time we had together she didn't want to share with any of our friends. So, we both cut out our "mutual friends" long ago, and none of them speak to either of us now. The only chance I could have any contact with her at this point would be bumping into her at a bar/restaurant or the mall, and I avoid any of those places where I could possibly bump into her.

I can see why I sound foggy. To the extent I know what that means, I think I am mostly beyond that. I was foggy for a long, long time. I rationalized everything. The other woman could have ruined my marriage, my career, pretty much everything. So, I always said (to myself) that she was going to have to make the decision to end it. I know that's a cop-out, but in the situation, there did not seem to be any good options to get out of it. She ended it. I want more than anything to have a happy fulfilling marriage with my wife, and I just don't know how to do it yet.

My wife is absolutely incredible. She's not doing well, as you might expect, but she's supportive and absolutely committed. We're not back in the honeymoon phase by any means, but she's better today than she was two months ago. And every day is different, but she's getting better. I think she's a lot like me, we'll both be a lot happier if we can just fix our marriage.

I'm reading After the Affair right now. I'm about half way through it. Basically, I've read all of the examples of the people who made the same mistake that I've made, and said to myself about 100 times, "That sounds exactly like me." But, I haven't gotten to the part that tells me how to fix things. I just hope that its in there. I'm reading "Infidelity" right now as well. If those don't work, its on to Surviving an Affair.

You made a very interesting comment about my sexual relationship with the other woman being like "dogs in heat." Honestly, I've been through marriage counseling, individual counseling, and hours of talks with friends, and that description is the best I've heard and more helpful than anything that anyone has said. The weird thing is that I was convinced at the time that I was absolutely in love with this woman. Now, after reading and learning, I realize that feeling was the product of infatuation. But, even though I felt so in love with this woman, whenever we had "sex" I never had a stronger emotional connection to her because of it. Yet, when I "make love" with my wife, I instantly feel an emotional connection to her, even though its not physically as pleasing.

Your last comment is interesting, and I've read that a lot. The weird thing is that the other woman did all of those things when we spent time together. On the other hand, my wife and I are much more like partners (I cook and she cleans the dishes or vice versa; we take turns doing laundry.) I didn't want someone to do all of those things. I love that partnership with my wife, but I also loved having someone that just worshipped me the way the other woman did.

Its just that I don't know how to keep it going, like you said I'm supposed to WORK to do. My marriage was the first relationship that I ever had that lasted long enough to get past that "in love" phase. I never knew what it felt like to have to work to have that feeling, and I still don't. I got married in my late-20s and had only had the typical college relationships until I met wife when I was 23. That's why the other woman seemed so alluring. She gave me the type of "college relationship" that was really the only thing that I knew. So, I don't know how to work to find happiness. Until all of this happened, I just thought it was something that was supposed to come naturally. I know now that I was seriously, seriously wrong. I'm hoping I find out somehow, but it hasn't been in any of the books or counseling that I've had so far.

Finally, I would love to end any positive thoughs of the other woman and the adultery, and I just don't know how. I don't feel like I'm in control of what just pops into my mind. And what pops into my mind is not the fights or the drama with the other woman, or the pain that I caused my wife. Its only the good times with the other woman, and anxiety over whether or not I'm going to be able to fix my marriage. So, if anyone has any tips, I really need to hear them.

Thanks so much for your response.

My opinion.

You said your wife is incredible. You said your wife is the better woman. This affair was about sex. That was your only complaint about your wife. This other woman was a sexual dynamo, right?? You wanted to leave, she threatened you with exposure. She threatened suicide. One drama scene after another. You sound like a pretty intelligent man (except for the screwing around) so I really don't have to spell out a head case. Was she REALLY your best friend? Would a best friend threaten you? Would a best friend play on your feelings with the threat of suicide?

Or would your best friend stand by you, even after being incredibly hurt? Sounds like your wife. I think you should give her, your best friend, your secret decoder ring. And thank your lucky stars God blessed you with someone so special.

PS. Youve done it once. You will, most likely, do it again. Guard against that. Because even best friends get fed up sometimes.

gabagool,

You're so right, except that I definitely feel like one of the dumbest men that has ever lived. You have no idea how floored my friends were to find out that I had done this to my wife, because they all know that she is an unbelievable person -- successful, intelligent, beautiful, and that doesn't even begin to describe her as a person.

Aside from that, the affair certainly had that physical aspect to it, but it was the typical "she made me feel young," "she gave me excitement," etc. It got to the point that I just didn't know how to live without that feeling or that "high." I still don't, and that's the main problem.

But, everything you say is right. A problem that I had during the affair, and I still battle with now, is that I blamed the situation for all of the drama that I had with the other woman. I was convinced that if we had met in normal circumstances that things would have been perfect and would have stayed perfect forever. (I know that probably makes people laugh hysterically.) To a certain extent, I still wonder about that, and I have anxiety over whether I have given up that opportunity. So, yeah, based upon that, I'm still in the fog a little bit. My brain tells me that's crazy. I just haven't fully convinced my emotions of that yet.

It absolutely will not happen again. I could never subject myself to this kind of pain again. Living a double life is terrible, despite what seems to be the obvious benefits. And there is absolutely no possibility for a happy ending to the situation.

Thanks for your response and your help.

"A problem that I had during the affair, and I still battle with now, is that I blamed the situation for all of the drama that I had with the other woman. I was convinced that if we had met in normal circumstances that things would have been perfect and would have stayed perfect forever. (I know that probably makes people laugh hysterically.)"

If you only knew how many times we hear this same thing, you might find it laughable too. Affairs are selfish acts based on fantasy and almost never last. And every single affairee thinks that theirs is going to be the exception to the less than 3% success rate. (And that is 3% who do get married - 75% of those end up divorced).

Have no contact with the OW, start working hard (you and your wife) on meeting each other's needs. Spend 15 hours a week doing fun things together, and work on whatever caused the lack of sex. Then you should grow to love your wife again. And show her that love through your actions.

Hi EMS...

Perhaps I've missed it, but I've yet to read whether or not your wife is aware of your affair...Sooooo...Does she know, and if so, did you confess or were you busted?

If she does know, how is SHE doing? I've heard TONS about you and how you are, but NOTHING about how your wife is doing...She MUST be your focus...Focusing on meeting her needs and helping her heal is not only the right thing to do, but it will also help you to fall in love with her...FEELINGS FOLLOW ACTIONS...I know you know that to be true, because look at what happened when you focused all of your energies and attentions on OW...An "ah ha moment" for you perhaps?

If she does not know, you do realize that she must, yes?

Mrs. W

E:

Do you travel alot?

Ever have to plan a trip that was going to take several weeks and had a lot of unknowns and bad maps?

The natives were cranky and didn't really want to offer support?

So you had to do it all alone?

That's where you are now.

THe trip called recovery is long, hard, and has a LOT of unknowns to you, and the map isn't all that great.

Many of us here have been on that trip. And many of us here continue on this trip.

We can help you see the obstacles ahead, but you have to start learning the MB way to truly start understanding the maps.

Surviving the Affair is a excellent read.

Pick up "His Needs, Her Needs" (HNHN) next. And it might be more valuable to you.

You state that the OW "worshipped" you. (Well, as long as none of her friends or your friends saw you together...)

My OW worshipped me to. My BS loathed me. But, she had ALOT of reasons to...

Now, 2.6 years after Dday, my Wife ADORES me. I adore her.

You said you were looking for the "college relationship" experience. Hook up, get wild, crawl back.

Yeah, no guidebook to read to change that lifestyle.

It's just called HNHN.

When was the last time you told your W that she was all those things that you state she is? "successful, intelligent, and beautiful" are the terms you used. When was the last time you thanked her for doing something with out being prompted?

HNHN changed everything in our relationship. We learned WHAT Emotional Needs (EN) are and how to start working to meet them in our spouse. That ment we BOTH had to change. My BS recognized her behavior patterns and worked on herself to change many of them. I was transformed.

I was probably alot closer to your "college Hook-up" type in my thinking until I read chapter 1 of HNHN.

Then, I started thinking like a Husband, and a MAN. It made a world of difference. I have a relationship with my son now that would have never existed, and the marriage that I have now? Just amazing.

YOU can do this.

It will take time. The trail is marked. You can follow it, or you can stumble along. Book the MB weekend. Take your W to that, and then she will KNOW you ready to step into the marriage fully. Dr. Harley talks to both parties during his seminars. And outlines the path back to a GREAT marriage.

You did the most difficult first step. Ending the A. The rest from here is HARD. Recovery is MORE difficult then ending the A, because ending the A is a choice. Addressing all the issues in the marriage from the beginning and thru the affair is what helps you get to an MB marriage.

But your here. That's excellent.

LG

Believer,

I hear what you're saying. I don't know if you've been through it, and if so on which side. But, it goes without saying, that your judgment is impaired throughout the entire thing. My judgment is still impaired. I can read it and hear it that it wasn't as great as I thought it was, and it wasn't going to last, but until something happens that proves it to me, then I'm too stubborn to get that thought out of my head.


Mrs. Wondering,

She knows. She's getting better. Part of her is happy that the OW is out of the way so that we can truly work on things. We have been through a year of counseling, while I was involved. She at least feels like now that we have a real chance. More than anything else, she wants me to be happy. That's why I'm here . . . to try to find ways to get me through this, so that I can be the husband to her that she deserves to have.


Lousygolfer,

Thanks so much for your response. Just hearing someone tell me that it is possible and that it does get better helps so much. The concept of this being an addiction seems to fit me so well, and while I can comprehend from a logical perspective that my life is better without that drug, I still don't feel as well without it. I'm just not as happy without it, and more than anything else, I want to know that after we work at this and after I make a lot of changes that I will be happier than I was.

The OW adored me in front of our friends, her friends, her family, etc. We just wouldn't spend very much time with any of them, except that we did spend a lot of time with her family. That probably sounds weird, but her parents marriage is the product of an extra-marrital affair. So, they "understood." But, that was part of the attraction -- to have someone who was so willing to profess to everyone how great she thought I was.

The problem for me is that my wife has always adored me. It just didn't make me feel as good as when the OW adored me. If my wife said I looked handsome, the OW said I was hot. If my wife said she was proud of me for something I did at work, the OW said that I was brilliant. And for the longest time, I just longed for the approval of the OW for everything that I did.

You mention HNHN. I haven't read it, and if things don't better, I will get there. The weird thing about my marriage is that we didn't have any real major problems before the affair. We rarely fought, we got along great, etc. Even during the affair we dated and I was still her best friend. We were in marriage counsel for about a year during the affair (I know, I know), but she would describe me as the "perfect husband." Right now, like I said above, she just wants me to be happy the way that I feel like I need to be. It seems like "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" would be a better book for us. If anyone has experience with them I would love to hear their thoughts.

Your analogy about the trip without a map is perfect. I'm the kind of guy that has everything planned out in advance, so that's why I feel so lost right now. That's why I'm here. Thanks for helping me get a little further down the road.

First of all, I commend you for continuing to post and for wanting to be through this. I can see how OW's parents influenced her thinking and made your A more attractive to you. Nothing like "acceptance" is there? For me the longer my A went on the more disgusted I was with myself because my Mom left my dad (and my brother and I) for her OM. She is still married to him. It has not been a happy M. I did not want to become my mom and do what she did to my own children.

HNHN would be wonderful for you and your W to work through while you are reading the adultery books. There is a wonderful workbook that goes with it. You can buy it by clicking on bookstore at the top of the page. What you two need is a guideline for falling in love, staying in love and the path to caring and protecting each other.

This is an excerpt from the MB newsletter I get in my email. I wish I had the whole thing to copy and paste. I carry this around in my purse to pull out and remind myself of. Dr.Harley is a brilliant man. He has the tools, the road to follow for a happy marriage.

I wish I still had the email to copy and paste from but I will do my best to type this up. This is from the MB newsletter:

I have identified four promises for couples to make when they exchange rings. These promises embody what a husband and wife should expect of each other -- very much like the marriage contracts that the ancient Sumerians created.

The first is the promise of care: I promise to be your primary source of happiness -- to meet your most important emotional needs. Spouses promise to identify their five most important emotional needs prior to marriage, and then promise to meet them for each other after they are married.

The second is the promise of protections: I promise to avoid being the source of your unhappiness -- to avoid Love Busters. They promise to avoid all of the six of the Love Busters that I've been discussing in this book (Love Busters by Harley): selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, dishonesty, annoying habits and independent behavior. And by following the Policy of Joint Agreement, they promise to avoid making decisions that benefit one at the expense of the other.

The third is the promise of honesty: I promise to be radically honest with you. They promise to be honest about their emotional reactions, personal history, current activities and experiences, and plans for the future.

The fourth is the promise of time: I promise to give you my undivided attention at least 15 hours per week. They understand that time should be set aside to meet each other's important emotional needs of affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation, and recreational companionship. So they promise to commit a minimum of fifteen hours each week for undivided attention, regardless of how busy their lives become.

By agreeing to these expectations up front, it would be much easier for a couple to get into the habits that would build a loving and fulfilling relationship with each other. They would deposit love units by meeting each other's most important emotional needs, and they would avoid their withdrawl by being considerate of each other's feelings.

If we all followed these rules from the first moments of our marriages, I doubt there would be as many affairs or divorces.

The main reason that I want to get through this is because I can remember being so happy before the affair started. Ironically, when I was first getting to know the other woman, she said to me that that I must have a great marriage because I was always in such a good mood. That was true, and looking back, I have no idea why I made the decision that I did. It was the opposite of most I've read on here. It was all physical at first, and then developed into an emotional attachment. I mean I knew we had problems in our marriage, but we just didn't communicate well enough to solve them the way we should. So instead of communicating and fixing the problems within our otherwise happy marriage, I looked outside the marriage to fix the problem, and I had a very attractive person willing to join me.

I can't tell you how much I would give to be able to go back in time and do it all over again. Two and half years ago, I was so happy in my marriage. But, in that time, I did nothing but look for an opportunity to send a text message, send an email, make a phone call, or meet up with the other woman. Now, I don't even know how to kiss my wife anymore. I don't know how to have fun with her any more. I just want to be able to do all of those things again, because she deserves it. The fact that would make me happy again is just lucky for me.

I picked up HNHN today at the bookstore. One thing that scares me from what I've read is that I may always feel like I'm in love with the other woman, like an alcoholic always craves alcohol. I really hope that's not true. I would love to never think of this woman ever again, and I'm a long way away from that. But, I would love to know that when I'm happy in my marriage again that nothing about the affair would still be attractive to me. That's where I want to get to. It doesn't seem possible right now, but I'm going to work as hard as possible to get there.

OK, well, I am a FWW, and my husband and I came to this forum a few months ago and began re-building our lives after my A. When I came here, I was very foggy (selfish, entitled, excuses for why I cheated, etc). I am reading your posts and while they are very self-centered, I can see that you acknowledge (at least logically) that there was no excuse for your A (because their isn't) and that your wife is AMAZING for giving you another chance (which she is), and that your heart's desire is to rid yourself of the thoughts of the OW (other woman) and feel that way again about your BW (betrayed wife).

OK, but that recipe can be found right in the pages of this website. 15 hours a week undivided attention, radical honesty, meeting each other's ENs, etc. Your EN for Admiration is probably number one. It is obvious in your posts. Have you explained to your wife exactly what it is that you need in the way of admiration?

I have to tell you, though...she would be amazing indeed if she was able to admire you at all right now after what you have done. Consider yourself very lucky if she can work on this aspect right now. You have just begun to "earn" your forgiveness and admiration from her, yanno! She needs to heal from your A. It is a hard road...

The only other thing that you can do is give it time. You are very early in the process and your WD will continue for some time due to the length of your A. Do not give in and reconnect with the OW, and do not seek out the A "high" with another. Look at it as a drug addiction...it will take time and a lot of hard work. Mrs W is exactly right, though...feelings follow actions. Another way to look at it is- fake it till ya make it. Pretty soon you will realize that the A/OW thoughts are replaced with thoughts of your wife and your love for her. Time and hard work coupled with the MB principles...there's no magic bullet.

Welcome to MB!

Great post, again, LaLa.

ESM....

You do realize that you need to do things YOURSELF that will make you feel admirable? Even though it is a listed need on the emotional needs questionnaire, the admiration you desire needs to come from yourself mostly. Your wife will never be able to feed that desire in you as much as you crave it. And she wouldn't need to if you lived an admirable life.

I agree that your wife will have a hard time admiring you just yet unless you are repentent, remorseful, and make amends and become an open book to her.

The admiration you received from the other woman.....how can you feel good about what she said to you? This was a woman who has no integrity, no moral compass, and an adulteress? She is not admirable herself. She was willing to destroy a family for her own selfish desires. Just like you. It was not true admiration. You never deserved it because you were not being admirable while doing what you were doing. I would have to really admire someone to accept their praise as true.

Your wife sees you day in and day out. You have to keep up a house, pay bills, etc. That is the real world. Not the fantasy world you so selfishly created with the other woman. You'll learn this in time, hopefully. Any admiration you get from your wife, who has to do the hard work of a real marriage......now that is admiration.

Do things to make yourself feel admirable and you'll always feel it and your wife will say it, and mean it.

I'm sorry if my posts come across self-centered. I'm just so worried that I screwed up by not taking all of the many opportunities that I had to be with the other woman. When she and I would talk about it, I always told her that I couldn't leave my wife unless she was unhappy with me. I didn't think it was fair for me to leave, and then be the one that immediately becomes happy. I know that's not a good reason to stay in any relationship, and is certainly not the kind of marriage my wife deserves. But, many days that is why I stayed. I always thought that I could be happy just by making my wife happy. Now, after losing the other woman, I don't know if that's true. It may make sense to people who have been through it, but it doesn't make sense to me. When things were good in the affair, things were great in the marriage. But, if the other woman and I were fighting, I was distant and angry with my wife. I don't know if that is common or not. So, I guess my posts reflect really the concern that I have I'm not going to be happy again.

Right now, I don't feel as though I am emotionally any different than when the other woman and I would have a fight, because I just feel cold and distant with my wife while I go through this. I feel like if I can be me again, and be happy again, I'll re-connect with my wife like I had before the affair. The only real difference is that I see this as an opportunity to fix my marriage that I was never going to have while I was still involved in the affair.

I can see why some have focused on what I've said, and believed that I have this need for admiration. I probably just used the wrong examples in comparing how my interactions with my wife and the other woman would have different effects on me. The same is true for everything else that don't involve statements of admiration. For example, I would go to the mall with the other woman while she shopped 1-2 times per week and I loved being there with her. I would go shopping with my wife about once every 3 months, and it would just seem like a chore. So, its not as much about admiration as it is about how everything with the other woman just seemed better, and more interesting, and more fun. I know that's very typical, but it doesn't make it any less real in my mind as I deal with it.

One of the reasons I think this hurts the most is that my wife and the other woman had pretty much become my entire life. I'm not close with my family, so my wife was my entire "support" prior to the affair, but I had other friends that I would talk to, grab a drink with, etc. During the affair, I didn't have time for ANYONE else other than my wife and the other woman. I completely cut everyone else off, so that my entire circle of support, entertainment, etc. was comprised of two people. I didn't talk on the phone with any friends, didn't go out with anyone else, etc. So, now, half of that is gone, and for obvious reasons my wife really can't be here for me to deal with these types of thoughts. More than anything else, I have to assure her that I do love her, and talk of these doubts is very difficult for her to take, much less support me during this time. One hour a week with an individual counselor really just isn't providing enough support as I deal with all of that. Having said all of that, all of those that have responded have been so helpful just for sharing and encouraging, and allowing me to share.

Honestly, with that attitude, your wife should kick your happy butt to the curb for good. You are self centered...so you got that much right. You are concerned that you missed chances with the OW???? How about being worried that you might have pushed your wife to the brink of sending you packing for good?

Honestly, you sound VERY immature. I commend you for being here...but that is a small, small step. You have a lot of growing up to do. Hopefully you find some help on this site and in your personal life that leads you down that path.

Well, all waywards are self-centered...I was, too. It's just par for the course. The key is understanding what is happening to you so that you can change it.

First of all, the reason everything seemed so much "better" with the OW was because it revolved around secrecy and the high of the affair. There is a level of excitement because of the illicitness that makes everything more enticing. It is like going to a fireworks display completely sober versus taking a hallucinogenic drug first. Obviously the second one is going to make you FEEL like things are so much better...but they are just that way because you have added the DRUG to the mix. But the drug adds a FALSE sense of how things REALLY are...and it wears off....leaving the seemingly bleak world in its place.

So which reality do you trust? The one that has promised you to be there for you "till death do us part" or the one that was OK with being someone's mistress. I don't know if you have heard about the stats...but marriages born of affairs almost never last. Why? Because they are shrouded in lies, deceit, treachery and selfish/independent behavior. You may not believe it now, but the ONLY reason your affair partner was able to create such feelings of satisfaction for you is because your wife was there to pick up her slack. If you had to depend on the OW for ALL of your needs, she would have probably failed miserably. Intrinsically, you knew this, which is why you stayed in your M. You were quite content having your cake and eating it, too.

But your wife sounds like a wonderful person, and you owe it to her to get your head on straight. Quit pouting like a five-year-old who just had his new ball taken away for being bad. Your wife deserves better. Start ACTING like the man she married and soon you will FEEL like him. This isn't a game, and it isn't cool to string someone along for 2.5 years while you get your jollies with another woman...I don't care how it made you feel. You didn't take the opportunity to "be with the other woman" because you are smart enough to know better. Time to start living in the world of the honest and true spouses where you keep the vows you made to your wife and treat her with the utmost respect at ALL times...not just when you feel like it.

And re-build your support system. Explain to people what you have done with a repentant heart and ask for their forgiveness. The ones who are willing to understand, even though they do not approve, will come back into your life and be a great help to you. If any of those people try to tell you what you did is acceptable or tries to make you "feel" better about what you've done for ANY reason....DROP them like a hot potato. The only people you need in your life right now are GOOD people who will help you do the RIGHT thing from now on...they are called your ACCOUNTABILITY support system.


Gee, do you think? How would YOU feel if she was the one who had the A for 2.5 years with another man and was spewing this kind of fog babble at you? Of course, that's tough to ask a wayward, because I wished my BH would have an A so that I could feel better about mine for a long time.

For now...start acting more like a loving, devoted husband and less like a spoiled child and maybe you will start feeling that way...

From one (former) wayward to another...and good luck to you. Your attitude is good, but your actions need quite a bit of work...

MEDC,

You said exactly what I thought yesterday when I read this thread. I decided not to post it. You are more gutsy than I.

FWIW, everything seemed fun and exciting with OW huh? even things like mundane shopping. Have you ever considered that the excitement of doing something you always knew was wrong had something to do with the allure?

Everything you did, felt and spoke about with OW was based somewhere other than reality. Had you left your BW and married the OW, ultimately you would have come to feel about OW just the way you feel about your BW now.

This is a problem within you, not about your BW or about the OW. I don't see much chance of a recovered marriage for you unless you seek some IC to help you recognize what is wrong in you.

Who

Will you believe me if I tell that in a few months you are going to be deeply embarrassed and ashamed for the comparisons you made between your faithful W and the OW? You are man. Men generally deal with logic. Let's put some logic to this.

Your wife is smart, attractive, loyal and faithful. She is standing by you despite the fact that you just undid anything good about the last 2.5 years of her life and marriage. Obviously she is a strong woman as well.

OW had no qualms inserting herself into someone else's marriage. She is weak and resorted to threatening suicide to keep you around. She has no real moral foundation or character. She is selfish and self centered. What she wants she will go after whether it hurts someone else or not.

No comparison between the two is there?

The time you spent with OW was exciting because it was WRONG, it was SECRETIVE and only existed in the bubble of the tiny, tiny world the two of you created. Expose that to the light of the entire world and you will see the true ugliness and see it wither and die.

esm,

You're getting some great advice from people who have already been where you are and understand how foggy thinking warps your perspective. Please listen and start to explore the personal and spiritual growth it takes to move from selfish wayward spouse to remorseful and grateful former wayward spouse. You seem open to constructive criticism....and that is an excellent sign that you are leaving Clueless Land. Resonance would be a great guide and I hope you follow her lead.

So, I've decided just to give you some really practical suggestions to try in your journey towards self discovery:

For You:

*Begin the process of seeing the OW for who she is and not the fantasy you have created. Like any addiction, you have substitute good habits for bad. So when your thoughts wander in her direction. STOP And recalibrate. When you start to think about how wonderful she was. Stop. And ask yourself how wonderful is a woman who's willing to steal another woman's husband? When you start to think about how fun it was to be with her. Stop. And think about how lonely your wife must have been. Replace fantasy reality....in a regular exercise that continues to make you to take stock of the real damage that was occurring....not just to other people....but to your own character. This didn't just harm your wife. It harmed you too. Refocussing will take effort at first....but with practice, it can become a good habit that will help your recovery.

*Despite your loss....you aren't the victim. If you stole money and then lost it....you might be totally bummed out. However, that doesn't mean those feelings are rational. You should never have had that money in the first place, so the karma bus just ran over you. Get up, dust yourself off and do the right thing!

*Do everything in your power for the rest of your life to avoid this woman forever. You should be scared that you'll always have feelings for her, but maybe this will help. Dr. Harley says that every single person you know has an account in your love bank. When they give you what you need, the bank balance goes up. When they don't....it goes down. But the account NEVER closes. That's why old bf/gfs are such threats. Their account is still there and those walks down memory lane in your affair brain....can keep making deposits even after you end contact. Stop the reverie....and you can lower the threat to just an old defunct account. Change jobs. Move. Do whatever it takes to stay away long enough to get out of withdrawal.

*Most of what you're saying....in fact all of it....just sounds like you're still in complete withdrawal. Believe, be a little patient and maintain no contact and you'll get through. The biochemistry of infatuation takes a while to work out of your system....but as your brain chemistry gets back to normal.....your eyesight and foresight is going to clear and the fog will burn away. When that happens, it won't be hard at all to see the ugliness that this whole thing was about.

*Grow your spirit. Go to church. Serve dinner to the homeless. Join habitat for humanity. Get the perspective to APPRECIATE the blessings you have.

For your Marriage and your wife:

*Be an honest. An open book. Be accountable for time, money and whereabouts. If you have even accidental contact....you tell her right away and discuss new ways of avoiding. Give her your passwords and your cell phone bill.

*Time time time time. Spend more than 15 hours a week together and call her often while you're apart. Don't go on any alone trips.

*Do NEW things. Research shows that affairs are exhilarating because of the NOVELTY. Use the knowledge to re-inject your marriage with passion and excitement. Get out of the house. Find some recreational activities....especially physically challenging ones that get your heart racing. Start sharing things with your wife besides drudgery and sameness. Eat dessert first. Go try foods you've never experienced before. Make love outside of the bedroom. Get out of the doldrums.

*Show remorse. Your wife can not hear enough how sorry you are that you've hurt her.

*Renew your vows and build a marriage with a stronger foundation.

Good luck

This is not true. When things were “good” (I can’t believed I even typed that) in the affair adultery, the marriage for your faithful wife was dying of an unseen, undiagnosed cancer. It was not great. It was being poisoned.

It is good you came here for help but you have to clear your head up now.