Sadbut,

""I also think that there are unique elements to this that allow me to not be resentful or angry.""

Sorry, I saw the heading of your post "Marriage on the mend, but affair bothering me more now" so I thought you were starting to feel the feelings that we mortal BSs feel.

So the A is not bothering you more now? That is a good thing.

Your unique way of thinking about it is a blessing to you and allows you to rise above the resentment and anger.

I also did not expose. Right after dday, my wife told the OM to take a hike. He called her once, she told me, and I called him with the news. There was no reason for me to expose at that time.

And you were able to stop the A without exposing, so I say good for you. I know our life would be much different if all knew of my wife's betrayal.

I hope you both will become closer and closer as the weeks and months go by.

kirk

SBS,

I'm not sure whether being "unique" or being "typical" makes any difference whatsoever in this process of recovery. Believe of yourself whatever trips your trigger, if it makes you happy.

What really makes the difference is how much work you put into recovering the marriage. It does take a lot more action than you might think.

And how much you understand about affairs.

And how much you learn to protect the marriage from here on out from another affair - because although you THINK you have learned a lesson here, you need to LEARN how to protect the marriage from now on. And yes, you are STILL vulnerable, whether or not you are unique or typical. The truth is this: the less you THINK you are likely to have an affair, the more vulnerable you probably are. Why? Because you probably have not made conscious choices and conscious safeguards, you probably don't have a "plan" in place, and you are probably relying on your "moral strength" to resist such a thing as an affair. Not good - because many people who relied on moral strength found themselves falling down the tubes, and ended up in an affair and had no idea how they got there. Read the website, Dr. Harley talks about this issue.

You need to know: The biggest threat to the marriage at about six months post d-day - IS THE BETRAYED SPOUSE. Why? Because that is when anger and resentment start to set in. Whether typical or unique, there will likely come a time when you will get angry about or resentful of your wife's affair. And if you are not prepared for that, and you don't acknowledge that the possibility exists that you (yes YOU!) can and DO have these feelings, then you will not be prepared for them. And love-busting is the likely outcome. Angry outbursts will spew forth from your mouth, and you will shock yourself - if you are not prepared and you don't get that understanding in place BEFORE this phase comes along. Because - unique or typical - it WILL come along.

Right now, you and your wife are working things out. You probably do feel the love for her and are grateful for what you have had together for so many years. I understand that, having been married since 1975 to the same guy (who, BTW, cheated on me two and a half years ago). I never stopped loving him, even when I was really angry over the affair, really hurt over the affair, and practically broken in two over the affair.

The love doesn't stop. Don't confuse being angry, hurt, or resentful with losing your love. These feelings can and do co-exist.

And that makes for some very strange conversations.

And the question about the 15 month time frame? I think it hit me because things began to be less "fresh" then. Things settled back down to where we weren't working so hard all the time to be sure to meet one another's needs each and every moment. We backed off a lot, and things became less stressed, more "normal" and "everyday life" edged back in. But I still hurt. I still woke up to the images, the thoughts. Those things still worked their way in, and maybe everyday things edged too much of the pain reliever of the extra care my H was giving off of my wounds, so they opened up a little. The fog of d-day and the aftermath was completely lifted, and my brain and body had recovered.

And no, I didn't "expose" either. I didn't have a big d-day. There was no withdrawal, Plan B, or big mess with the kids, etc. I didn't have to woo him back. He was remorseful, and we both knew what went wrong from the very start. So am I unique or typical? Who really cares?

I'm recovered. That's what counts, isn't it? And I used the MB concepts and methods.

This recovery process is not for sissies. It is hard. It is a rollercoaster of emotions. You will hurt one day and be fine the next. Sometimes you will stare into space and ask, "WHY???" without an answer, but you do know the answer - intellectually that is. But that will not erase that pain. That pain will ebb and flow like the Pacific tides, only you won't have the tables for predicting them.

And you aren't in charge of it, either. You might like to think so, but this is one ride that you didn't buy the ticket for. You don't control the speed. You don't get to say how steep the climbs are, how tight the corkscrew curves will be, or when you get to get off the ride.

You do get to say how fast you learn to hold on.

I urge you to read a few books:

Surviving an Affair
After the Affair

And have your wife read them, too. You've got lots of learning and work to do.

Hold on to your hat.

Schoolbus

You think you aren't resentful or angry, but if that were true, why would you be in knots over whether sex with you is "the best" you wife has ever had?

Has it occurred to you that she will never make such a statement, because in order to to that she has to make the tacit admission that she is comparing you to someone else? If you make love tonight and she truthfully tells you the physical act of making love with you was the very best sexual experience she's ever had, she's brought the other man into your bed just by using comparative language.

It's funny to me that you've been married as long as you have, and yet you still think of sex as an act a man "performs" rather than one the couple creates together. Great sex doesn't happen because one person "competes" well. There's more to it than nailing (sorry) the technical elements; passion is what makes great sex great.

If you want to hear how much she values you, how much you please her, how wonderful she feels when you make love -- then tell her how much you value her, how much she pleases you, how wonderful you feel with her.

I guess people mean well here, but sometimes I wonder. Every little statement I make that seems like an inconsistency is jumped on like a Bear's Quarterback. I have argued politics online with people and knew I had to make sure every i was dotted and every t was crossed. I did not think I had to do that here, but I am mistaken. I came here to write and read among friends, not engage in repartee.

As for sex, to claim it is one single thing is silly. Of course it is a very loving, emotionally bonding experience, etc. It is also a pleasurable experience where the mindset and other arousal factors can lead to a more pleasurable experience. To ignore the potential of making it the best experience possible for each other is a mistake. In fact a mistake I made leading to our sex life becoming routine either in perception or reality. This left a vulnerability among the many other factors.

Yes, the affair sex was empty on the internal fulfillment side. My wife confirmed that. Foolish in some ways, I continued sexual relations with my wife during the affair. She mentioned on several occasions how different it was. With me there was a bond supported by 23 years of marriage. With him it was just sex. (Note: to avoid a remark here, my wife is not cruel by nature to discuss such things so blatantly. There were times that she had a couple glasses of wine and it makes her say things she normally would not. It was during these times I would glean some of the things I write about)

I should also note that my wife is amazingly sexual. She is strikingly beautiful, keeps herself looking very good in her mid-40's. She has always loved sex. So the way the routine aspect crept into our sex life is a factor. I had many responsibilities and distractions in life. The trouble with our children and our work schedules really interfered with our sex life. By the time we had an opportunity it was so late, there was very little energy to make it what it needed to be.

The fact is that I need and want to address the pleasureable experience side in our sex life. As for comparison statements, I guess I need to get graphical here. When my wife says she had the most amazing orgasm ever and goes on to describe it in detail, she will not need to think about comparing it against the OM. There are 23 years of them with me to compare them to. Of course she is not going to say a "best ...with you" caveat.

Anyway, more information than needed on that topic.

As for the title of this post. There were too little spaces to describe what I was writing about so it is not really accurate. While she was still seeing the OM, it was not so much the sex that obsessed my thoughts. Just her being with him in general was torture. I cocooned my thoughts against the sexual part of things or it would have driven me crazy. Actually by the time I found out about things and she tried to break up with him once, there was very little sex with him after that. I won't explain why and how I know, but it was maybe 2-3 times over the next 6 weeks.

My point is that now that it is over I think about the sex from time to time. Not all the time and not every day. Yesterday I did and I had the opportunity to write about it here.

Anyway thanks for all the comments. The notes about potential pitfalls in the future are very helpful for me to guard against.

I fully understand the desire to be "the best" in the sexual sense with your spouse.

I struggled with that, too.

When you've been married for a long time, sex does become "routine" (for lack of a better term). The kids, the daily life, the job, the fatigue - things interfere.

It's very typical!

You know, it's hard to take a minor 2X4 when you post. But what's important that I was trying to get across to you was that you are early in the recovery process. It isn't unusual to feel the way you do right now. Strong, optimistic, like you can do this. That is a very good way to feel, and you need your strength.

But what you do need to know is that you will also feel weak, SBS. And it is okay to feel weak. To feel hurt and to allow that pain to show to your wife is a very important part of the recovery process. To not show her your pain over the affair would be a huge mistake. To just stuff it down and say to yourself, "Oh, I'm so strong. I will stuff this pain and do it for her. I am the strongest and the most unique person, I can do what others cannot, and I can just push my way past all of this pain, and end up down the road somewhere unscathed," is naive and frankly, dangerous.

I'm not picking apart your posts (although by trade, that is my profession and I have not done that - I looked at the message, the meaning, not the words, SBS). I'm giving you my honest thoughts and best advice here. I see you heading down a path that worries me, and that's the only reason I'm posting to you. I have no other agenda.

Here's my worry:

I'm concerned that you see your wife's pain and guilt over her affair, and you have put aside your own pain in order to assuage hers. Maybe you're afraid that if you show pain, it will add to hers.

It will. But temporarily.

If you do not show pain, she will wonder, "Why did this not hurt him?" "Is he so devoid of emotion that I can do something so devastating that he feels virtually nothing?" "Is he thinking of just leaving me, and hiding his true feelings?" There are many other things she may run through her head, or through her heart. She will have many, many fears.

She will fear that you will have a revenge affair - and this is a risk, if you do not properly and openly express your feelings and emotions, your own thoughts and fears as you go through the recovery process.

She will fear that you resent her, that you are withdrawing from her. If you are silent about your pain, and your thoughts - if you don't openly and honestly express these to her - she will have no understanding of the process of recovery YOU are going through. Her own ability to change and grow will therefore be limited, and likely negatively affected.

By denying pain, her fear will be that maybe you did not love her like she thought you did (or you say you do). Because certainly someone betrayed would be pained to the depths of their being. She KNOWS the depth of her own pain - and yet, you forge ahead......showing little? This can confuse her.


I encourage you to get the books and read them. Not because I said so, or because the website sells them. Because my experience two and half years down the line says that the books have served over and over again as a life-line for the "next phase" I have come to in recovery. There's always the next surprise in the way I feel.

You have never done anything like this before - recovered from an affair. It takes a year or so before the full force of all the nuances really hit you. That's how long it takes to understand that the marriage was in trouble in MANY ways before the affair began - and that both of you contributed to the state of the pre-affair marriage. You two need to sit down together and figure this thing out - TOGETHER being the key word. You cannot do this for her. It takes both of you working in concert.

You cannot do her part, and she cannot do yours.

While it is noble of you to try to save her pain, it is in the pain that she will find her own healing. It is counter-intuitive, I know. And by the same token, you should be willing to understand that it is okay to feel, and to tell your wife exactly what those feelings feel like. I would be willing to bet it would be a discussion she would be very open to hearing.

Schoolbus

Maybe I am being too sensitive. As for showing my pain, when she was still seeing him I cried with her more than my entire life combined. She has seen my hurt. I have walked through every feeling with her and she understands my hurt. When it ended, I explained to her what hurt so much and then forgave her. I don't want to wallow in it. Just sometimes it does get to me. I don't think I have written of that before.

Thanks.

Both of you could make this M better than ever before but both of you need help. If you can't afford Harley's, try one locally but make sure they are working with MB concept. Otherwise you better off become DoItYourSelfMBer. Get the work book and start from there.

Could you take a long vacation ? a week or two ?. Just you and her to a place that you don't need to sight seeing but relax and reflect ?.

Undivided Attention ....

-rh-

We cannot take a week of time right now or even a weekend. One of my kids is having serious issues in his life. He is recovering, but right now it would not be wise to leave him alone or even with a relative.

When we go, we will need to take him with for now. While it kindof defeats the purpose, I have found that the next best thing to being alone together is family time together.

We have been spending more time together. We are doing things together like going to the gym to work out. The nature of her work allows for me to help her in my off hours if she needs to work later or on weekends. We have a great time together and go out to dinner afterward.

I am trying to plan something special for tomorrow night.

Sorry to hear that watch out not to be codependent nor enabeling. I agree that 1 hours perday on weekday and 5 hours perday on weekend undivided attention is almost impossible to none. However as you & I experienced it, we can't afford not to. We made trade off that we tought it was best for all of us and we reaped the consequences.

We have no choice but work with whatever cards on hand that life deals us with. Make sure you use PoJA - policy of join agreement to plan up your time wisely and effectively. Spend your undivided time to fillin the top 3 of each other ENs to maximize it and no LB's as prerequisite. Be creative ... On top of spending time in person, W & I are leaving the house at the same time to work on separate cars but we are connected via cell phones/bluetooth. On the way back I always call her and we talk. We have at least one hours of talking. Conversation is our top 3 ENs and couldn't you tell that we can't be separated like teenagers.

15 hours weekly to maintain M in a way that you never dream possible. Many MBers are living in it.

At least 30 hours weekly in early recovery. Basically take your second honeymmon in your early recovery.

Be careful making trade off and be creative to maximize what you have.

-rh-

Actually we do spend a lot of time together. Just not away. We can afford to go places, etc. but with my son's situation it is difficult. We spend nearly an hour on the phone each day while I am commuting and 2-4 hours each day.

One of the things I have found is building routines that we do together. We never ate breakfast for years. Recently, we started focusing on our health together so we enjoy a good 20-30 minutes each morning drinking coffee and eating breakfast.

Making dinner and cleanup afterward is a team effort too. I focus on making it time together by conversing during this.

We go to the gym a few nights a week. While there, I feel kindof separated but we get time going there and back.

I sit with her every night while she takes her bath talking as she relaxes. This is something I started on D-Day of all things. That day she told me we were going to divorce and that there was somebody else (though at the time I did not know it was physical yet). She told me I was still her husband and I could sit with her while she took her bath. I'm sure at the time she was throwing me a bone out of guilt but I have found it a very enjoyable practice. It is time together, undivided attention, relaxing and quite sensual to watch her bathe.

I have a deck of cards at the table and 1-2 day a week I strike up a 3 hand set of Gin Rummy.

We also have a few favorite TV shows we watch. The writer's strike has limited that which is a good thing right now.

I just long to take a trip somewhere for a few days to have total time together without any distractions.

SBS,

My husband and I get our "quiet time" together by sitting in the evenings on the patio. No TV. No phone. No noise.

If someone calls, we can honestly ignore the phone and say, "We were outside."

Sometimes we talk, sometimes we just hold hands.

Right after d-day, he would just hold me while I cried. It has become a sort of refuge for us, and a nice place to be.

It is the new habits, like the one you talk about - eating breakfast - that will help to rebuild your relationship.

But you will also need time to talk about what went wrong in the first place. Really, deeply, talk about it. Not in an emotional sense, but in a nuts-and-bolts sense.

One of the books that my H and I found that helped us frame some talks was "Relationship Rescue" by Dr. Phil McGraw. Now, I'm not an overall fan of Dr. Phil by any stretch - but this book really has WORK in it. He comes at things from a perspective of looking at YOURSELF, and not your spouse, first. Then, toward the end of the book, the two of you sit together for a few minutes (about 15 minutes) per session and talk about some very thought-provoking subjects.

We didn't do everything in the book. But we did do most of the last part, the questions, and we talked about the topics he suggested. I learned about my H through those questions, and he learned a LOT about me. He was very surprised that he had overlooked so much about me, and that he had never even talked to me or "cared to know" before.

One of the things that most women really feel is lacking in relationships with their men is the intimate talking. This book did help my H with opening up to me. He actually said "it didn't hurt too much!". You might want to just take a look.

SB