I can see how Plan B would help a BS have this kind of clarity. Sometimes when we are on the battlefield daily being hit with bombs, it is hard to keep focused on the bigger war.





I don't believe that divorce is God's will. I struggled with this thinking when FWS was wayward. I felt I was being forced to live outside God's will because of FWS's choices.

I realized that FWS was making a CHOICE to BE outside God's will. It was NOT God's will for my children's family to be ripped apart. It was NOT God's will for our marriage to be destroyed. It WAS God's will for FWS to come back, just as the prodigal son returned home where he belonged. BUT God gave FWS free will to CHOOSE to live OUTSIDE of God's permissive will.

God would HONOR my efforts to restore my marriage. He would make my life good, even if FWS chose to remain outside God's will and living in sin.

The idea that divorce could ever be God's will is the world's twist to get us Christians to accept divorce. The church has accepted this and now satan uses it to destroy Christian marriages.

BUT, if the wayward refuses to return. God ALLOWS divorce, I believe, so that the BS can find peace again.

I cannot comment on others and their ability to forgive. I have not met non-believers that have forgiven such a huge offense. That's just my limited life, I guess. I know that what I am experiencing in my marriage could only come from God. My hurt ran so deep and shattered the core of my soul. I could never in my human power, put those pieces back together. It could only have happened with supernatural intervention.

My personal advice to someone facing this, would be to first find Christ. I cannot fathom forgiving and healing from this any other way.

AND I TRIED many other ways when I was trying to get through the abuse from my brothers, as I was not a Christian. Ande it was not until AFTER I accepted Jesus and walked in His truth and light that I was ABLE to forgive and heal....deeply, in the depths of my soul.

You asked for practical ways to forgive? All I can offer is what I told Mopey: know that this is bigger than you and ask God to do HIS great work in you.

I'm sorry, that is all I can offer.



Now, if you want to talk about HEALING. There is more. But I do not see that as the same as forgiveness. After I forgive, there are actions I take to heal. But still, I don't believe that I could truly heal the depth of my soul without God's intervention.

I am sad for those who walk this path without God. I know what is transforming in my heart, and I know it is only by His grace, mercy and love that it is happening.

AND THEN, I see tst... I see HIS devastation and I know that only God can put HIS soul back together.

There are things we can do to help along the way. And there are things we can do to interfere with God's work in us. And I do see that. But I cannot fathom doing it without God.

I don't know WHO I walk this path with, but please, don't be SAD for those of us who are not specific in our faith. There is no reason for your sadness. I will get thru this, in whatever form or with whosoever walks with me. I have survived so much devastation, and STILL wear a smile on my face and in my heart much of the time. There are many people who have helped me along the way, many of which are on this forum. I can hear the Beatles in my mind, "I get by with a little help from my friends". I suppose that is how God walks with me. I made it thru some very dark nights and solemn days, physically alone, but I never felt alone. We don't all prescribe to the same beliefs, but I believe we can all survive and fluorish, regardless.

SMB - you are. You are making perfect sense, imho.

God bless.

Thanks for your input SMB. It makes sense to me...and I am sure it will resonate with some others.
I am thankful that I have known forgiveness both personally and also through relationships with others of all or no faith. That in no way diminishes what a Christian experiences in their walk with Christ...but true forgiveness, IMHO, is reserved for caring people with or without faith.
While I see that you do not link forgiveness and healing, I do think there is a common thread that runs through both; the ability to move forward. I don't think they are dependent upon one another...but I do see them as being linked.

So, what are you doing to heal?

It makes sense, MEDC, on some levels, simply because God has written His moral code into the hearts of all people. There are, for example, people who do not believe in God, yet who try to live lives according to those same moral principles.

It was not my belief in Christ that formed that part of me.

Perhaps not, but I'd be willing to wager that you gained a clearer and better understanding of what forgiveness is and why we should forgive as God has forgiven us rather than for our own "reasons" when you came to know just what God, and Jesus, did for you while you were unworthy of any forgiveness by God.

The issue in that respect is not belief in God, or acceptance of Christ. Is is not "what we do" that provides salvation, as you already know. We "do" in response to the gift that God gave us even though our "best behavior" was not good enough to merit His forgiveness of sin.

It's one of the reasons why I asked you earlier to define what types of forgiveness you were directing the thread to.

Now, in the area of forgiving adultery, it begins, it would seem, with the BS having a belief, or a moral standard, of Fidelity and Exclusivity in marriage, else they really wouldn't be all that concerned about forgiveness of adultery, let alone reconciliation and restoration of the marriage with their Wayward Spouse. Monogamy is important to the BS and the "reasons" they think monogamy is important can be based on the Word of God or a reasoned acceptance that God's purpose in marriage makes sense even if they choose to reject God as their Sovereign Lord, or even if they choose to believe that God does not exist. In that sense, it is like the rain that falls on both the saved and the unsaved. It still comes from God and HIS design for how things are "supposed to work."

Perhaps it would be helpful if you could provide some examples of MBers who do not believe in God but who also were able to achieve full forgiveness of adultery and restoration of their marriage.

While there may well be some, I am unaware of any off the top of my head. Recovery is "hard enough" for those who do have God in their lives and who have a WS who is repentant and trying to help recover the marriage. So it would be helpful if some of those who have "made it on their own" could be referenced or who might join in your thread discussion with their "how to's" that worked for them.

God bless.

Christianity doesn't own monogomy. It is something that is practiced and believed in by many religions worldwide and even by complete athiests. So is forgiveness. Many of these people have never "rejected" God or chosen to believe he doesn't exist -they simply believe in something else.

I believe what MEDC was hoping for in this thread was some suggestions and tools to learn to forgive that could be applied to anybody, not just a select group of people (Christians).

I'm one of those looking for strategies from BS's who's WS's are not remorseful, nor is the marriage recoverable. Though I still don't feel I will ever forgive my WSTBX in the true sense of the word, and I'm pretty sure I can get past my anger and bitterness without it. I guess what I'm looking for is acceptance.

SMB,

THANK YOU so much for your response!


Lol..... Last night I prayed and asked God to give you the energy and the insight to post back to me.....lol......He's good isn't he? ....lol.....



I believe I was. I believe I was holding back forgiveness and trust until he earned it. Now I understand the difference. He can't earn my forgiveness, but he can earn my trust.



I feel in my heart, right now, that I choose to forgive. I want to forgive. I will tell him that I forgive him. Just making that choice makes me feel like I've overcome my biggest battle. I am not going to let Satan have my life. My husband wants my forgiveness, and I am going to give it to him. I feel better already just making that choice.



Is it reasonable for me to have a boundary of protecting my heart, by not wanting to have a relationship with my husband now because of him wanting to "re-evaluate in Sept. to see if there is any point in continuing with our marriage"? He's not committed to me and I already feel rejected, again, by him. I don't want to wait 6 months only to have him reject me again and file for divorce if he doesn't like my progress.


I am going to do this because I think I will be faced with forgiving on a daily basis, especially in my marriage.


Awesome, finally, I think I am arriving. If God can help me forgive all of this and find peace again, it will be beautiful.


I honestly believe that now. I have been praying for him to help me forgive. His word is true. He had you post to me to help me to see I was on the right track.

God bless you SMB. Thank you so much.

Agreed. In fact, looking at the stats, they are no better at it than an atheist.


exactly



Thanks for your input to this thread.


It is NOT up to me to supply a list of people that have recovered their marriages without God in their life. Suffice to say they exist both here on this board and in my personal life.

MEDC,

THANK YOU so much for starting this thread. It was very timely for me. I think God is using you to help us.

you're welcome...thanks for contributing.

FH, that would be a wager you would lose...but, it was only for a nickel...so, we can call it even. I had a clear understanding of why I would forgive back then...and it has not been made more clear by Scripture. In fact, given the nature of a lot of the Bible, I would say that it actually made things less clear for me. We Christian's can be a very unforgiving group at times (as evidenced by our history).

It may also surprise you to hear that I am of the belief that with few exceptions, people do deserve salvation. For the most part, I believe people are very good...and considering some of the horrors I have seen in this world, that is saying a lot.

The only reason I engaged in even this level of "religious" discussion FH is because you have continued to bring this up despite saying that you would not...I suggest that this thread be left to its purpose and if you wish to discuss the purely religious angle, please start another thread...it will be an interesting topic to bring up.

Regarding forgiveness and Christianity...

My wife is not a Christian. She is Jewish, but was raised non-religiously, and is not currently religious. Both her late father and her mother were/are very unforgiving - both, for example, had/have siblings they haven't spoken to in 40 years. Her brother is also not a particularly forgiving person.

Despite all of this, my wife forgave me, and has made some kind of peace with her late father that involves a measure of forgiveness. In forgiving me, she has shown me the most *grace* that any person I've ever known ever has.

Christianity is not a pre-requisite for forgiveness. Forgiveness is given a very high degree of emphasis in Christianity - which is good - but foregiveness is something that can be aspired to by anyone.

Mopey,

What you said means the world to me. It feels good to know that some of my experiences have helped you today.

Yes, God is good

I cannot convince anyone that a WS doesn't comprehend the destruction they are causing. That's OK. I came here to share, not to convince.

I am NOT saying that they didn't make choices. Absolutely they made choices. Absolutely they were selfish. I know that tst made the choice to open a door that allowed someone to seduce him into an affair. Yes, he made many choices that brought us to where we were. And yes, there was a moment in time, where he knew exactly what he was choosing, and chose it anyway. BUT in that moment, he could not comprehend the devastation that choice would cause me. He did not fathom that he choice in that moment would cause me to question everything I believed in, and even question whether I wanted to live or die. He did not fathom that the wonderful relationship he had with his daughter would NEVER be the same because his choice in that moment would lead him to make another choice...the choice to abandon his family.


I don't feel comfortable continuing in a discussion about this, as it does deal with very personal religious beliefs that I hold. I have been in a spiritual battle for my family and am not willing to go into intimate details about it here.

If my ideas of forgiveness offend people here, my ideas on spiritual warfare certainly will even moreso.



***edited because I left out a key word..."not"***

When you DO know who you walked this path with, you'll understand my point. Until then, there is nothing I can say to explain my point. Does that mean I don't have a right to say it?

I don't mean any disrespect to you.

I haven't seen one person on this thread express that they have been offended. Perhaps you are confusing disagreement with offense? If SL was offended by your statement, I really don't see it.

sexymamabear,

I took no offense from what you wrote. I was just trying to state that we all walk our own path. Your belief is that walk is with a Christian God. Others' dieties may take another form, and may prescribe to different methods on how to forgive, or even IF forgiveness is necessarily something so altruistic.

I have absolutely no problem with you relaying what you went thru and how you dealt with it. None whatsoever.

Oh, MEDC, I DO see forgiveness and healing as being linked. Most definitely. I just do not see them as the same thing.

There is no healing without forgiveness. If I choose to NOT forgive, then I cannot expect to heal from the assualt.

What do I do to heal?

Personal healing:

Taking care of my spiritual needs by praying, reading Scripture, and most importantly for me, praising God in music and dance.

Taking care of my needs physically by eating well, and hopefully, soon returning to some Tai Chi and walking.

Taking care of my emotional needs by sharing my struggles with someone I trust (a friend) and by writing.

Doing some fun things to bring laughter in my life.

Treating myself to some luxuries that I denied myself in the past.



Marital healing:

Tending to my personal healing helps our marital healing.

Allowing FWS to meet my needs (this was a challenge for me in the beginning). I was more willing to meet his than to let him meet mine.

Sharing my grief and sorrow with FWS in a way that allowed him to minister to me. Sometimes I want to withdraw, but when I allow him to be there for me, I experienced healing.

Sharing my anger. I am more overridden with grief, but do have anger that surfaces and needs to be faced.

Putting into place Harley's rules for protection of our marriage.



Well, that's what comes to mind right now.

I think mostly, it is important to remember that healing is a process. A wound takes time to heal and must be tended to.

IMO no matter how you get there this is what it boils down to.