OOOhhh, I might be able to top the siblings issue! I have a dear friend who lost her mom to a cancer battle. Well, her husband's parents got a divorce and now her dad is married to her husband's mom! And, they live in the house that belonged to her mom/dad. It's taken a loooonnng time, but they are friends now. Strange world we live in, but it works. Smile!

Thanks for the support. The boys are at home with DH for the weekend, otherwise I'd have had tons to distract me on the drive.

It went very well. I got a couple of books on CD and ended up listening to The Kite Runner. It kept me very interested and my mind only wandered a little. The story is about betrayal and the courage to do the right thing...very thoughtful. I wish my DH were a reader. It wasn't about an A, but it had lots of interesting thoughts on the lies and betrayal of life and the price you pay for them.

I am with my dad, his wife, and my little brother and sister (twins...they are 13 months.) I have shared with them both and they are very supportive of me and DH. I do feel like a cry might be good, but at the same time, I like the idea of just hanging out with my family. I don't have TV at home so I'm thinking that curling up with popcorn on the couch and channel surfing might be good therapy.

When I start to spiral down, I can DH and talk to him. Just like you, I cannot be alone for too long without distraction. Sometimes I wonder if it's good to always distract myself out of it, but then again, we are dealing with the issues in MC and I don't need to dwell in the sadness alone. I can and should share it with DH.

Talk with you soon,
Robyn

Robyn.
I've been reading a posting regarding whether or not the OWH should be told. There was an amazing posting by "cherishing" that had such a sense of calm and grace to it. It's titled
Should I tell the OWH and is in General questionsII. Anyway, read it...it's a feeling I hope to achieve some day. And, I wish it for you too.
So, it got me to thinking...rather than read through all of our postings, does the OW in your picture have an H? If so, did you tell him? Or, did he already know? My H's EA was single so this was not a factor. However, I did write a letter that I desperately wanted to send to her referencing how I knew her mom would be disappointed, but it was more for me and I never sent it. It felt good to write it down, though. Speaking of which, do you journal? Our MC suggested I do this and it has been very theraputic. However, when I read back from just a month ago, I was pretty nuts. Almost manic! Thank God I'm not prone to mental illness -- one may think it though if you read some of my entries. Whew! some day I may gain perspective and learn from this!
We had a good weekend, except for the time when we were in Home Depot and he walked away from me without saying. I panicked! Where was he? Did he sneak away to make a quick call? Well, there he was, but I did lose it. So, he realized I was sad and I explained to him why. He was a little upset that I did not trust him but we managed to get over it! I suppose that's progress! WE'll chat tomorrow. I hope all is well today with you.
D

The OW in our A has a H and two kids. I sent her a very nasty note the first day that told her that DH had told me everything. She forwarded the email to my DH without comment.

We sent a NC letter to OW and sent it to her home address with DH name as the return. OWH knows that there was a "thing" between DH and OW so if he got the mail that day, I'm sure that he knows.

I had to get to the point that for me, I don't need to tell OWH because my motivation is not helpful to me and DH...it is to try to hurt OW. Because the motivation isn't productive, I am not interested in telling. Most of the time, it seems like the OWH needs to know so that the two having the A have less chance to sneak around without one of the BS noticing. In our case, DH ended this a long time ago, so it's not really a big issue. Also, OW lives in Oregon and we are in Southern California so the location proximity makes it less likely.

I had a restful weekend with my parents and my baby brother and sister. It was well needed. I saw my best friend for coffee one day and other than that, spent a couple of days just hanging out. It was nice.

Ahhh...as soon as you started telling that, I remembered! I wish my OW would move to Oregon!!! Even that's not far enough and we're on the East coast. I wonder if the wench knows my son and I were at work on Friday. Tons of people saw us as my H made it a point to walk us around.
Anyway, I'm glad you were relaxed and saw your best friend. I thought of you just a moment ago. I know you guys are struggling financially so I wanted to tell you what we did the other day. Because gold prices are so high, I collected a handful of old 14K jewelery and we took it to a local shop that buys/sells gold & silver. Most, except for one piece, was 14K and we walked out of there with a $2300. I was shocked! Anyway, we will put this towards new applicances for our newly remodeled kitchen. Just a thought!!
Also, did you ever get to look at that other posting I referenced? This woman has such a sense of inner peace even though her situation seems yucky. When I go to church, that's what I mostly pray for -- peace. I realize that can go either way, but it's what I need/want the most. Talk to you later.

Wow! Gold prices must be really high. I don't know what I've got in gold...I do have some old jewelry from my mom that I'll never wear. And we got a little infusion with selling our pickup truck. That's why I drove it to Oregon...I could get 5k for it up there and only 3k down here. It makes two months rent!

I didn't find the post you mentioned. Who was the author? I don't like the new look of the posting forum. Maybe just not used to it, and I can't figure out how to know what things are new to me. Oh well.

Kids are out on spring break this week. It's challenging to have them home all day with me every day. They get on each other's nerves (and then on mine). We're playing legos right now, which usually goes well until someone "shoots" another's ship and they argue over the destruction.

I haven't felt like getting back into the swing of things with DH yet. It was really hard to come home. I think it was nice to "run away" from all of the problems for a few days. But we'll keep working on it.

I had a couple of times when I worried about what he might be doing down here without me, but I had to remind myself that he has been able to hide it for four years, so it doesn't matter if I'm home or not. He has to make the choice to be honest. It has always been his choice. That helped a little bit. That and the pain meds I was taking for pleurasy (sp?) (when the lining around your lung gets inflamed and hurts like your being stabbed every time you breath).

Robyn,
Below is the posting I found from 'cherishing'. It's not real relevant to either of our scenarios, but it does give me hope because she's so calm and soothing. I'll find out what section it's in...
Lego's huh? I don't think I miss those days and yet I do! Spring break never really was a break at all. My son (15) had 10 days off but he's more interested in sleeping so it was pretty easy for me. The other only had 5 days off and 1/2 were a weekend and the H was home. So, all around, not too bad.
As for the gold...yup, it's trading at over $900 per ounce. Now, that is not what you'll get, but they have a calculation they use. I took old jewelery my mom had given to me and bracelets I no longer wear. On my kitchen scale it totalled 5oz. but the weight is different at the shop. But, it was still over 2 thousand. Very interesting!
Good luck with the crazy thoughts in your head. I was having them this morning. No reason, just had a feeling. I tend to have dreams that OW comes here to cause trouble. I did not tell H about it as he's been very sweet this week and very attentive. I can tell when she's out of the picture...he's nicer to me. I found another posting here from a while ago about the rules for rebuilding trust. Do you have an email on your preference page? If so, I can copy/paste the document and mail it to you that way...it's way too long. But, it was very helpful. Actually, your H may even gain some perspective if he reads it. Let me know and I'll send it your way. Good luck with break and we'll chat tomorrow.
D


I have felt very ambivalent for most of the past 6 years about whether or not I should have called OWH and told him what I knew.

There is no doubt a devastating effect on children, especially girls, to know that a father has been unfaithful. Like a family history of cancer or alcoholism, getting the issue on the table can result in it getting addressed.

Dr. Harley just posted something on the private forum today about how girls especially are affected by a father's infidelity and end up being very distrusting of their husbands.

I had my concerns about my husband's relationship with this woman but did not suspect an affair. That's why I called OWH. When the OWH told me it was an affair, I was devastated. I followed Dr. Harley's advice to tell the children, too.

Obviously, it would be far better if the children had not suffered the trauma of knowing Dad did something really, really bad. Good even can come of this. Our children have learned that you can do something really, really bad and can recover.

They also know the truth.

They aren't sheltered by lies.

Children don't need the details. What they need is to understand what happened. I told my children, "Daddy kissed S -- on the lips." They appreciate that Dad only kisses Mom on the lips, that Dad and Mom are supposed to have a special relationship and that Dad a special relationship with someone else that made Mom very sad. As my husband once poignantly put it, "What was between S-- and me should have been special between us." Yes, very true...

In the last year or so, I realized that my daughter who was just over one year old at the time didn't know what had happened, so I told her. I suspected that someday she'd learn from a sibling, and I wanted to be the one to tell her.

There's an honesty in my relationship with our children. They know they can talk to me. They know they can come to me and say -- I messed up -- and know that I'll still be there for them as they recover from or make restitution for what they have done.

I broke the Hummel...
I got a late assignment...
I got a D+ in math...
I wet my pants...

We humans aren't perfect. The first step in recovery is facing what you have done.

The years have gone by, and I reflect on how our lives are forever changed by what really was a stupid infatuation that came of self-indulgent willingness to form a close friendship with another woman.

We were naive. What is true love? I used to think true love was the bond of passion between two people that is unchangeable and so strong it would last forever. Now I realize it is the commitment to be there for the other person, to care for the other person no matter what they do. Like with my children, I will never cut off my husband without hope of reconciliation. He may in the future do something which results in a separation or even divorce, but I will always be open to reconciliation.

By calling OWH, you give those children the opportunity to live in a home where there isn't a lie that affects the entire family, whether or not those who are part of the family are aware of the lie.

This may be my last post except on the Private Forum. It's time for me to move on to filling my life with enjoying my family, not reflecting on what might have been. And, yes, the driveway needs to be shoveled...it's been snowing since early morning.

It is a hard decision you are making. The negative impact is immediate. Given what my husband did, I'm glad I found out, and I'm glad my children know. As the Bible says, "The truth shall set you free."

Cherishing

Edited by Cherishing (03/31/08 01:11 PM)

I don't know if my email shows up on my profile, but it is my username hicktownmommy@gmail.com...I think it's ok to post it here.

I had a bizarre dream about OW...I had just found out the DH was having an A with OW and we were talking about the timeline of the A in connection with what was going on in our lives. He said that he had sex with OW just before we found out some important news...that we were pregnant with our second boy. He implied that the maternity of our son was in question (like OW could be the mother and not me).

Two things are weird about it...first, obviously, she couldn't be the mother of my son...second, they met long after our third son was born (not the second). I decided that it must be my brain trying to figure out what memories are real and what are false...what she stole from me.

Strange how the unconscious mind works, eh?

[Robyn, Here it is... I found it under the sub title of In Recovery.

Hello, I composed this list which I thought was helpful and someone suggested I post it on this site. Hopefully it will be useful for someone in the midst of struggling to rebuild trust after the affair.

The discovery of marital infidelity is a devastating experience. Even though a marriage can often recover, sometimes the damage done is simply too great to overcome. The speed and degree of recovery is usually dictated by the behavior and actions of the adulterous spouse, in essence because they are the one that brought an outsider into the marital union. Often, however, the adulterous spouse has no idea what to do, or how to behave, in order to help rebuild trust in the relationship. Therefore, I have composed this guide to assist the adulterous spouse in helping to rebuild their marriage.

If you are the cheating party, you'll need to print this list out and put it in your pocket. If you are the victim of a cheater, you might want to provide your spouse with this list as a reference.

#1 Stop lying. If you love the other man/woman, admit it; if you're not sure you want to remain in the marriage, say so; if the victim spouse presents evidence of the affair, own up to it. You need to understand that the worse thing that could happen has already occurred...you slept with someone else. Therefore, continuing to lie, twist, or deny is simply adding insult to injury. If you are looking your spouse in the eye and claiming to want the marriage to work then you cannot continue to lie about various odds and ends. You have been lying to your spouse for the entire duration of the affair, therefore, if you continue to lie now, it sets the reconciliation process waaaay back. The victim spouse likely knows the answers to the questions they are asking, or can usually find out, so if you are interested in rebuilding trust in the relationship, simply STOP LYING.

#2 Do not get defensive or assign blame. This is not the time to employ the old adage of "the best defense is a good offense." This is the time to be contrite, remorseful, empathetic, compassionate, honest, and emotionally available. Do not say anything at this point which will give the impression that the victim spouse drove you to cheat, or in any way contributed to your behavior. There will be plenty of time to pass the blame around later on during counseling sessions, or during times of productive conversation with your mate. Additionally, do not waste time blaming the affair on anyone or anything else. Do not point the finger toward temptation, being under the influence, or falling prey to a stalker. The victim spouse will see right through these excuses and will view this as another attempt to keep them in the dark while you continue playing them for a fool. The best way to effectively deal with your spouses anger, and start the process of rebuilding trust, is to take complete and full ownership of your selfishness, immaturity, or basic destructive marital behavior.

#3 Cut any and all possible ties with the other man/woman. Keeping a person in your life with whom you have had an affair is like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube. Not only is this a confusing message to the other person, it is extremely disrespectful to your spouse. It does not matter if you have known this other man/woman since kindergarten, it is time to break those ties. Once you have allowed another individual to permeate or undermine your marital union, there is no place for this person in your life. You simply cannot expect your victim spouse to move past the affair as long as you continue communicating with, seeing, or having any type of relationship with this other man/woman. It is in fact an insult to the intelligence of your current spouse for you to purport that you can maintain a professional, platonic, or otherwise innocent relationship with this destructive individual. Furthermore, because this person had an affair with a married man/woman, your current spouse knows they have absolutely no respect for your marriage. Continuing to work with, hang out with, email or chat with this person is probably the single worse possible thing to do if you are wanting to repair your marriage. This is the time to figure out which relationship is the most important to you, either your marriage or the relationship with the other man/woman, and behave accordingly. You simply cannot drive in two lanes at once.

#4 Your life must be an open book. You no longer have the luxury of coming and going as you please. Once you have abused that privilege, it takes a while to get it back. Therefore, if you will be late coming home from work, or have had a change in plans, inform your spouse. Every time you leave home your spouse is now wondering if you are going where you say you are going. The best way to ease their insecurities is to check in throughout the day. Invite your spouse places you usually go alone like to the game, the gym or the mall. Let your spouse know that you have nothing to hide. Additionally, do not hide your cell phone or set the ringer on silent. If your spouse requests, give them your email and voice mail pass codes. In fact, if you have nothing to hide then offer your spouse the codes without them having to ask. Don't lock your cell phone, call log or address book, and keep the credit card statement in plain view on the kitchen table. Although your spouse may never choose to check these things, the simple fact that you made them available for his/her perusal will be a huge step in regaining their trust. Although you may feel as though this is a violation of your privacy, you need to know that these steps are absolutely necessary if you are trying to rebuild trust. Saying that you are on the straight and narrow, while continuing to hide your cell phone, is counterproductive to your stated goal of wanting to rebuild your marriage.

#5 Be prepared to answer any and all questions about things that your spouse has a legitimate right to know. Your spouse is going to want lots of details and ask questions you may not want to answer, but too bad. Your spouse is going to cross reference your prior stories and ask you to confirm if "this" or "that" was a lie. You simply need to fess up. The worse thing you can do is to conceal information because you don't want to hurt your spouse. Remember, they have already been hurt beyond belief, so continuing to withhold additional information gives the appearance of an attempt to continue the deception. No, your spouse does not need to know the exact places, times, and positions in which you were intimate with the other man/woman, but they do need to get a general understanding of how intense the relationship was, and how long it lasted. Although this may be one of the most difficult steps in the process, it is one of the most important. It is extremely difficult for a betrayed spouse to know that there is another man/woman in the world who has more information about their marriage then themselves. Therefore, asking multiple questions helps the betrayed spouse get up to speed, thus obtaining necessary information to deal with feelings of being in the dark while their spouse was gallivanting around with their lover.

#6 Do not attempt to dictate the length of time the victim spouses recovery should take. You are the one who brought the outsider into the marriage, and therefore, are in no position to dictate when the victim spouse should be "over it". The truth of the matter is, the victim spouse will never fully be "over it", but may simply learn how to mentally move past the affair. When a person is hurting, they typically share their pain with the closest person to them. As their spouse, you are the one they will vent to, even though it is you that caused the pain. Additionally, you may feel as though since you've confessed, apologized and vowed to remain faithful, things should now return to normal. That is simply not the case. One of the worse things that can happen is for the adulterous spouse to begin acting as though it's "business as usual". Deciding to remain in a relationship after your spouse has cheated is a major decision and one which can be both humiliating and stressful. Do not downplay the magnitude of that decision by behaving as though nothing happened two weeks after getting caught cheating. FOR THE NEXT FEW YEARS, the adulterous spouse needs to periodically wrap their arms around their mate, kiss them, and thank them for another chance. Additionally, acknowledge how much you hurt your spouse, how difficult it must be for them to get over the pain, and vow to do whatever necessary to make things better...forever. Although it may seem as though such actions will revive the pain, that is simply not the case. Acknowledging the degree of pain you put your spouse through, and expressing appreciation for another chance, gives the victim spouse the impression that you not only are mindful of their pain, but that as long as you are aware of their struggle to overcome the ordeal, you will be less likely to make such choices in the future.

#7 Do not behave inappropriately or create future problems. Don't put yourself in situations which will cause your victim spouse undue stress. Spending time with attractive, available singles, or forming relationships which could take focus away from your marriage or family commitments, is certainly not wise. Once you've rebuilt trust in your marriage, then it is okay to revisit these outside relationships. But for the time being, try to stay away from the bachelor parties, solo trips to Vegas, or nights out with the girls. Additionally, make your spouse aware when you anticipate coming into contact with the other man/woman. If you suspect the other man/woman might be at the holiday party, let your spouse know in advance. Also, if you run into, or have contact with, the other man/woman unexpectedly, let your spouse know as soon as possible. Nothing is worse than finding a recent email from the other man/woman that the victim spouse did not know about. It gives the impression of further secrecy and deception. Trust me, it won't hurt your spouse to know the other man/woman is contacting you, as much as it will hurt them to discover you hid that information. Believe me, during this time of broken trust, full disclosure is always the best route.

Lastly, but most importantly, make sure you are truly ready to be faithful and committed to your marriage before attempting to rebuild trust. Nothing is more devastating to a victim spouse then learning to trust a person who betrays them again.

Hope this was helpful,
Danine

Wow. That's great!

I think I'll have DH read it tonight.
Robyn

Robyn,
Just so you know....
You are a true hero! I am in awe of the grace you display in dealing with your current troubles. Not to diminish the pain of my H EA, I see how you are dealing with your HPA and am proud to be your discussion forum 'friend'. Keep up the good work.
D

Thank you fiori...sometimes I feel like a complete crazy person. Like if I were any kind of a real woman, I would have shot DH and left the minute he told me. So far, I haven't found the anger part of this recovery. Only the numbness part.

I really cherish our conversations...it may seem small, but it is VERY important to me, just knowing that you will check in and make sure that I haven't completely lost it. Sometimes I come here just to think out loud.

It was hurting a lot as I would post on my "story" thread and get no responses. I always know that you will eventually write a new post to me. It's comforting to have a friend here.

I'm in a weird space today...very apathetic but almost sad. DH and I spent the morning alone in the car together and I didn't really make the most of it. Now that we won't have time alone together for awhile, all I want is to be able to sit with him and talk. Argh. Even my emotions are uncooperative!

I just need to have a nice intimate moment with him...a kiss or a touch that reminds me he loves me. It sounds stupid when I write it, because he actions are bigger than that, but a little thing that is special just between us might make the difference today.

But alas, we have a soccer game, a teenager who needs a ride, an RV to take to Orange County for a friend, and a sleepover tonight...not to mention the regular stuff. MY needs will AGAIN have to wait. No wonder I have a hard time asking for what I need. So often I look at the agenda and figure that there is NO WAY to get them met anyway, so why ask?

I can relate completely to feeling this way. It seems like just when I am thinking that I need to talk to my husband about some of my messed up thoughts then a bomb drops.

And it is always somthing big, this past year we bought a house and moved, I had surgery, he had 2 clients die, his 15 year old daughter got busted shoplifted. Then there is all the normal little stuff, running our 6 year old around to dance classes, birthday parties, getting his 15 year old for the weekend (she lives 2-3 hours away depending on traffic), taking cars into for service, buying a new car, buying a new RV (H took OW camping in our old one while we were separated, so it had to go).

It just seems like there is so much going on in life, when is there time for us. What makes it even worse is that I am really slow to get comfortable and feel like talking. Also, when we do have alone time I don't want to mess it up by taking about things that upset either of us. I'd rather have fun in the moment then cry about my feelings.

Geesh life is complicated enough without the baggage of an A.

Church was interesting yesterday. I am still "finding" my spirituality, but DH and I started attending church for the first time just after d-day.

The church we attend is very liberal and always connects the sermon with contemporary life (like the first sermon talked about how the light of God is like the bat light in Gotham).

This month is looking at spirituality in general. But it talked about how Jesus is the vine (of the plant) and that we are the branches. Jesus cuts the branches that don't produce fruit (i.e. the ones who don't follow him), but also prunes those that do produce fruit so that they can produce more. I guess I need to look at life right now as a pruning stage....

We are searching for a new house to rent. The landlord we have just doesn't understand what renting a house means. She is too attached to the property and is here WAY too much. We gave notice after she ripped me a new one for trying to fix the pool filter.

I HATE the idea of moving. It's just TOO MUCH STRESS for me. Not only that but the mommy-guilt of moving our boys yet again is horrible. But I keep trying to remember that it is just another thing to let go of. This spiritual thing is weird for me, but it does make me calmer to accept that some things are taken away (or given to you) as a way for you to grow. Does that make sense?

Fiori...do you mind if I start posting on the General Questions thread for daily stuff? I want to keep this as a journal and I find that often what I write here for you and I to talk about, I want to include there. My thread is called "Recovery between Work, School, and Soccer?"

Robyn,
I have no problem with you shifting gears and putting us in another arena.
As for the church talk...I'm glad you guys are going there. I started attending church on D-day 10/17/07 in the mornings. Our Church has daily mass and I find it quite comforting to just be there. In the beginning I found that I went to the service and then just sat there taking in the smells and the sights. It is a very old beautiful building and I feel 'hugged' when I'm there. Occassionally my 12 yr. old will come in with me, as he gets to miss the first 20 minutes of school and is thrilled! I usually love the solitute of being alone with my 'regulars', but when I look at his sweet face it reminds me of why I trudge on.

Try to not look at the moving situation as a bad thing. Perhaps you will be able to leave behind some baggage that should be burried forever. This is the house where all the 'stuff' came crashing on to your head. Make it a fun excursion for the kids and make it a fresh start for you and H. Make the next house a home...your boys will respect you for this later.
We'll chat soon...time to pick up my sweetie from school and then to work on a science project!