His stuff, her stuff, I may be wrong about that. However that's not my main point.

Is holding her to the standard she wants from him bashing? Because that is what I am doing here. She says she doesn't want to be dismissed, but then dismisses her husband, and even says in this thread that she has no doubt he feels dismissed.

OK, so my question still stands, if it's not OK for him to do it, or it bothers her so much when he does it, then why is it OK for her to do it?

Or, how does she expect him to receive the message that it's not OK for him to do it, or that it's hurtful to her, when she is sending the contradictory message that it's really OK since she too does it?

Is that bashing, or simply asking someone to see if they live up to the standards they desire from another person.

If she is being bashed, it's by her own standard, right?
I think she needs to STOP doing the very things that annoy her. That will go much further than anything else will, other than what you suggest, proper, healthy boundaries.

If anything will work, and let's be clear, there are no guarantees, it will take BOTH of those actions to make a difference, not just boundaries, not just stopping her own hurtful behavior or mixed messages.

She has to stop the power struggle too. That's another mixed message. Complaining about his control, but all but admitting that she too seeks control over him, or manipulation.

Nope, I'm reading her standard and then holding her to what she says she wants from her husband.

There is NO hope if she is not willing to meet the expressed standard. All credibility is lost if the message is mixed or their are two standards, one for his behavior and a more lax standard she holds herself to.

Jayne and Soolee, that's what I've tried to do, to demonstrate in other ways that I feel so much better when he participates or helps, like cleaning up after him or putting stuff away, or buying special foods he likes, or putting his drinks in the fridge or cuddling on the couch with him.

I'm going to go back and reread all the articles, so that I can find more specific examples of how to interact so he hopefully doesn't feel under attack.

But I can't continue this way, with the house falling apart just like the last one did. I'm so tired of being humiliated when people come to our house or see our garage open. Normal people don't live like this. Here it is March, and we took his old car apart in October to order new parts so D17 could drive it when she gets her license in 2 weeks; it's still sitting in the driveway, with all the parts and seats, etc., still strewn around the garage, nothing done. I give him the book to order from and ask him to tell me what we need. He sets the book down and works on his computer. I give it to D17 and ask her to ask MrCat, she does, and he says he'll do it later. At least once a month for 6 months. Hasn't been touched.

IC tells me that if I start doing the things I need to get done, it may give him confidence to start attempting to do what he needs to get done, too. And hopefully the AD will get me moving more.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions and observations. I'm going to try to come up with a new way of dealing with him, to make sure I'm not DJing but still having some sort of boundaries, which are pretty much nonexistent now.

But then isn't saying he has to do it a form of control? After all, does he really have to do it? Apparently not, if so many things have gone undone for so many years.

You want them done. Nothing wrong with that. Saying HE has to do them???

So give him a choice, would he like to do it by Friday or should you just do it or get someone to do it.

When you say do this or I need this, you are giving the problem to someone else. Apparently, this sort of thing is not important to him. So do it or hire out the job if he doesn't want to do this.

Again, ask him if he will get to it this week, or should you just plan to do it? Give him a choice, but be willing to do it yourself if his time line doesn't meet with your approval.
I think that's great, let him live with the consequences of his actions. Don't try to fix everything for him. That may get him out of his comfort zone.
Well, I suppose you could explore why he believes that. Is it possible that you are the one who is often busy and unavailable, but he projects that into all his spare time is controlled.

Or maybe better, ask him how much time he wants and when. Be specific, block off these blocks of time that are his and then respect them. I'm not saying you are not, but rather, set them up, make them specific, so he knows he's getting the time he asked for. Then when you ask for something, he cannot say you take up all his spare time because his time is already programmed into the schedule.

Look, he may never see things your way. But it's far less likely if this is just a power struggle. It looks like a power struggle right now.

You don't have to embrace his opinion as your own, but you can understand it, find it interesting, marvel that a different thought process produced a different opinion and understand that basis for the opinion,even if you have a different one.

My wife an I are political opposites. But it's OK for her to be wrong (LOL, I'm kidding) because I appreciate that she too is an intelligent person and I can see how she has arrived at her views.

Will your husband ever do that? I dunno. But you can, right, even if he doesn't.

Your behavior is really not dependent upon his.

The only thing that annoys me is that he refuses to participate in what it takes to run a house. Do you sit down with your wife and discuss vacations? He doesn't. Do you replace lightbulbs? He doesn't. Do you fix holes in the ceiling when you step through it in the attic? He doesn't. Do you throw your own trash away? He doesn't. Do you put your dirty clothes in a hamper? He drops them where he changes clothes and leaves them there. Do you put your dirty dishes in the sink or dishwasher? He leaves his on the table and walks away. Do you unpack your own suitcase after a trip? He doesn't. For 29 years, I did it for him because he wouldn't; this last one? It's still sitting in the middle of the kitchen floor where he dropped it 2 weeks ago.

You want to call that a power play? Manipulation on my part? Controlling, for not unpacking his suitcase? Go ahead. If he did even a fraction of what a regular husband, in any sense of the word, does, I'd still be going around behind him, cleaning up like I did the previous 29 years. But there.is.no.reciprocation. If he feels like doing a project he does it; but it sure isn't anything I asked for. I ask him to fix a broken door, and he goes and digs a ditch; I ask him to help mulch (part of IC's instructions to try to ask for what I need), he goes out and reroutes a french drain.

Did I create this monster by picking up his mother's slack after she moved out? Sure. Do I deserve to have to keep doing it another 30 years - when he doesn't reciprocate? No.

Tell me, in specifics, how I dismissed him. By telling him that I need to do something about the garage, that it stresses me out? By asking if it was ok with him? By pushing the topic after he said no? I'm trying to understand you, but I don't.

You say there is only one thing, but then give a laundry list of things that apparently annoy you.

But I'm focusing on those that you engage in as well.

BTW, I'm the one who complains about dishes in the sink when there is an empty dishwasher. I probably destroyed my previous marriage doing stuff like that.

So what do I do now? I remind myself that I love my wife and kids and decide if I'm just going to do it, put them there myself, because they may be busy with Karate, or a project at work, or something, or if they are just being kids and need to be reminded to put their dishes into the dishwasher.

But I don't let it BUG me. I take action, one way or another.

Now, I treat my bride differently than the kids. But I make a decision that it's not going to bug me, because letting it bug me really will not build a good marriage.

Now that doesn't mean I just do it. Sometimes I do, other times I ask my wife or kids to take care of their dishes.

We still have control only over ourselves. So if it builds resentment for you to do his laundry, to pick up the things that he leaves about, don't do it. You can't force him to do it, but you don't have to do it either.

Think about the resentment you have about these things. Is it possible (not is it right or wrong) that he might have resentments when you ask or expect him to do things? Food for thought, nothing more.

You say you don't want to be dismissed, but then admit that you likely dismiss him. I've even provided examples where you do this. You say you don't want to be controlled, but I show where you are being controlling and manipulative.

That's what I'm talking about.

It's not about a free pass for him, or an excuse, it's about living up to your own standards.

He probably doesn't live up to his own either.

Tell me this, do you like it when he has a different standard for himself, a more lax standard personally, than he does for others?

Then why would he like it if you have a more lax standard personally, than you do for him?

"that's what I've tried to do, to demonstrate in other ways that I feel so much better when he participates or helps, like cleaning up after him or putting stuff away, or buying special foods he likes, or putting his drinks in the fridge or cuddling on the couch with him."

Cat - it's just MY perspective, but I think this is slipping past him. He isn't putting 2 and 2 together.

I think you verbally have to tell him that you feel so much better after each gesture he makes. You don't have to come out and say "Thank you!!!" but I DO think he has to somehow SEE that your happiness is a DIRECT response of something he has done. He needs to know that he can still make you happy - that he's capable of doing that.

In this way, I think he is very child like, but if he DOES have ADD or OCD or whatever, it may be what he needs to be functional and useful around the house.

You stated in the past that he asked you to go off the ADs because it made him feel guilty (I'm paraphrasing). He KNOWS his inaction depresses you. I just think he's missing a beat between the two and not seeing the cause and effect of doing something helpful and getting to cuddle. I could be way off, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has NO idea what it's all about and what kind of message you're trying to deliver.

WIFTS works for affirmation as well, and is very direct. No connecting the dots needed.

So it might go like this, "When you help me with the after dinner clean up, I feel so attracted to you, I think he really loves me, so I would like to say thanks for being my loving partner."

When you (do something)
I
Feel (something you feel)
Think
So I would like...

What is "WIFTS"?

In principle, I'm not disagreeing with the behaviors you advocate: taking responsibility for our own stuff, applying consistent standards, etc. I just *think* I hear you implying that cat should learn to live with the garage mess and other things. Or maybe you haven't read all the times she's posted that she began a project she wanted done, only to have her H tell her to stop doing it, because he would.

I *think* cat is willing to take steps herself to clean up clutter, fix things, finish projects, etc., that she wants done. Within the realms of what is humanly possible for one person to do alone.

Different perspectives are good, and maybe it's good that you call her on some things the rest of us don't see.

So it might go like this, "When you help me with the after dinner clean up, I Feel so attracted to you, I Think he really loves me, So I would like to say thanks for being my loving partner."

When you (do something)
I
Feel (something you feel)
Think
So I would like...

Nope, but it's unreasonable to expect that he will do it, given history.
Perhaps she should only stop WHEN he starts. There is nothing wrong with her saying that he probably means what he's saying, but for too many times in the past it hasn't gotten done, so his promises are not worth much at this time. And sharing that what she would find valuable would be to see him do it. She can share that she is willing to believe actions, but he has a way to go before she will believe his promises.

There is nothing wrong with being that blunt and honest.
I think that is the only realistic expectation. Pick the things that bother her the most and address them. If he wants to, fine. If not, well then at least she is dealing with them.

There is nothing wrong with her saying, I don't believe you, so I'm not stopping unless I see you actually start and complete the job. Otherwise, respectfully request that he not make any promises that she doesn't believe he'll keep.

Thank you.

Jayneygirl,

Thanks for sharing your POV and that you also have some hoarding/pack rat tendencies. It was me who mentioned it before.

As for the upgrade glitch of not being able to view all posts in a thread and only being able to see one page at a time... here is a way you can work with things the way they are now. I only know about this because before there would be times when I wanted to quote somebody from more than one of their posts. Here is what you can do. Open up MB twice in your browser. That way you can have the post window open in one and browse around to get what you want in the second one without losing your post. You have to minimize one while you are using the other but at least you can find what you are looking for in other posts this way.

Back to pack ratting... It is weird for me because I used to be very meticulous about stuff. I think part of that came from both of my parents (who divorced when I was about 5) who fall onto the clutter-hoarding scale somewhere. My mom was further on the scale and had a very difficult time getting rid of stuff. When she was ill with breast cancer she had previously moved to another city two hours away. When she moved she got a storage unit (2 car garage sized) and it was packed from floor to ceiling with stuff she didn't take when she moved. When she got sick over time the medical bills just kept adding up. She had to find some ways to cut back her monthly expenses and the storage unit was one of them. She came down and my XH and I helped her one day to start going through the unit.

It was very slow going and we probably got through maybe ten boxes (there were literally hundreds of boxes) that day and she needed to return. Because she was ill and I knew she really needed to get this done, I asked her if she wanted us to go through this stuff for her. She said she did but she wanted me to meticulously go through each box... which I honored in the beginnning. My XH and I rented a UHaul truck to either take stuff that we felt she still needed to store in our garage and took the rest to either the Goodwill or to the dump.

On the second day my XH and I were at this task... we were both tired and overwhlemed by how much stuff there was. It was daunting and we were on a timeline to finish this project. Day 2 became about opening a box, quickly rifling through it and then it either went in the save or discard pile... and by this point most stuff was going into the discard pile. In the end we wound up storing about the equivalent of a quarter of our garage and the rest went.

This was not the last time I would go through my mom's stuff either. When her remission ended and the cancer came back she moved back to where I lived. She was living in a two bedroom house with a one car garage. The extra bedroom was full of boxes and other stuff from floor to ceiling as was the garage. Before she died some of her good girlfriends helped her go through the spare bedroom and get rid of all the stuff in there so that she could actually use that space. After she died though there was still the garage... floor to ceiling packed full. My sister and I had the task of cleaning that out as well as the rest of her house. We were a bit more sentimental about going through her stuff... because she was gone we knew whatever we discarded would never be retrievable again. It took us about a week to go through all the stuff in the garage and it was really an eye opening experience.

Lots of my mom's friends offered to help us... but it was weird in a way because my sister and I refused help in going through her stuff initially. (Later after we had gone through it all we did call her friends to ask them if there was stuff that they wanted but at first we didn't want help. I think what might have started the not wanting help is that one of my mom's friends had been there trying to help and proceeded to start some laundry when my sister freaked out and told her not to wash any of mommy's stuff because it still smelled like her.)

When I say eye opening it was unravelling a puzzle about my mom. There were boxes of stuff that were brand new items... stuff she had ordered (she watched a lot of QVC and informercials) and never used. There were antiques and china and other stuff that we had forgotten she had... and understandable why she would have kept. There were cool things too like gas ration tickets from WW2, and lots of old photos and scrapbooks of her youth.

There was also lots of paperwork for stuff that was 20 or 30 years old. I am sure she had her reasons for keeping that stuff although I don't know what those reasons are. There were receipts and warranties for items purchased in the 70's from another state we lived in. This became a very bonding experience for my sister and I. Because my mom didn't have any other living immediate family... just my sister and I we just sort of became this united team. Her will had been hand written and notarized. It told us what to do with with her financial assests (she didn't have a lot but she left everything she did have to us equally distributed... and she had done everything she could to make what we would need to do after she died as easy for us as she could. There were a lot of things she had done ahead of time that neither my sister or I knew about. I was really grateful to her for that. )

One of the things I do remember about that time was that it felt like we were kids playing grown ups. Yes, we were adults... I was 30 years old, but because my mom never remarried, the task of dealing with all of the arrangements that have to be dealt with when someone dies fell to my sister and I and because my mom had very much been a caregiver in her life (by nature and by occupation) it just in many ways felt surreal. I am grateful to this thread and topic because it is a reminder of some of the stuff my DH and I need to do as far as a living will etc. that would prepare our own kids in the case of our death. Not something I like to think about but there are a few areas that we still need to put into place. Things are pretty clear and each of us would know what to do if the other died but if we were both to die suddenly there are things that need to be shored up more concretely. I supppose it isn't really something most of us want to think about... but it is something we really ought to be prepared for nonetheless.

Back to the clutter issue (sorry for the birdwalk there and thanks for letting me share about my mom here) my dad has clutter issues as well. Mostly his are piles of papers and Jayne what you said about how piles are stacked reminds me of my dad's system. Although it appears like how could anyone find anything in his paper piles... he knows where stuff is... he can tell you it is in the third pile halfway down under the yellow envelope. I get this more now then I used to as I have my own somewhat seemingly random system for paper clutter.

The other area where he has clutter issues has to do with them having invested in real estate and having rental properties. Because their goal in owning rentals was to make money, they were both of the school of thought that they should not hire out any work that they might be able to do themselves. So my dad has tons of stuff that could be used to fix stuff. He won't get rid of stuff because he might be able to use it to fix something sometime. He saves parts and reuses anything he can. I have to give him credit though because the man can fix just about any household repair from plumbing, to laying carpet and flooring, to installing countertops. Both my dad and my stepmom have a strong work ethic and it has only been in the last couple of years that they have slowed down a little bit and hired out some of the work although they still do a lot of it themselves.

But my dad doesn't want anyone messing with his papers period. I remember when I was living with them and they had a housekeeper. I used to think it was so funny how my stepmom would go on a rampage... tidying up and telling us to tidy up the evening before the housekeeper came. I remember thinking then... what's the point of having a housekeeper if you have to get ready for them. I get it now though and I suspect that is the biggest reason I don't hire a housekeeper now. I think I need to get over that fear because the truth is I could use the help... it might even be a motivator to manage some of the clutter.

I used to be so meticulous about everything about the house. I had a system for cleaning and organization. Some of the systems I created in terms of organization were overkill. Take DD's room. I bought all these clear plastic tubs of different sizes and labeled them all with a label maker of exactly what was supposed to go in each tub. Then I had labeled the shelves in her closet for where each tub was supposed to go. The system was way too complicated for her age at the time I did it... sheesh this is what I mean about becoming task avoidant. DD's room would get to be a mess and then I would avoid cleaning it because I felt like if I didn't have the time to put each thing in its exact perfectly labeled spot then I would rather not do it at all.

So DD's room would stay messy. The mess would be too much for her to tackle alone and then I would let her off the hook for cleaning her room because I didn't have the energy to help her. We have gotten better about this... yanno if it fits in a tub it doesn't really matter what the label on it says because they are clear and you can see what is in them anyway. If I want it done the way I want it done... it'll take all day. Sometimes when I feel stressed and things feel out of control I will go in and do a major clean out of her room or another similar task where I have set up some kind of complicated system to maintain order.

It's weird because when I first moved out and lived on my own and for many years to follow I was bordering on OCD about meticulous housekeeping. After the kids came along I still tried to do this and I know I was out of balance with this too. In some ways I think part of this was a means of trying to control anxiety. If I could keep things in perfect order then I could somehow control stress that way. And then after all the trauma after D-day... I just couldn't seem to do any of it. All of it became overwhelming and I sort of just gave up. The house was a mess most of the time. My DH did a lot during that time. On a positive note I do think it did help him to realize how much stuff I had been doing on my own before.

I am still working toward the healthy 90 degree perspective. I am finding that I have certain trigger clutter spots and if I keep those areas relatively clutter free then I can handle clutter in other parts of the house. Because of the layout of our house (we have a great room which is a really open floor plan that includes the living room, dining room, and kitchen) that if someone comes to the front door because you can see that part of the house when you come in... that that area is a trigger area for me. The kids use the large dining room table to do their homework, school projects, art projects, etc. that this has become their dumping ground for mess. Since we don't use the dining room table to eat at as a family... we eat at the kitchen counter with bar stools, the dining room table is a good large working space. Because it is visible when you enter the house... the clutter there really bothers me. I have found that keeping that table cleared of everything makes me feel better.

I haven't forbidden the kids from using that space I just have placed a boundary about it and started to enforce it. They can work there but they cannot leave there stuff out there when they're done working. If they leave their stuff out there then I just gather it up and dump it in their rooms which they are responsible for. They both complain about this... (you are making more of a mess for me in my room that I have to clean up) but I remind them that if they choose to leave it out there then I choose to dump it back in their rooms.

Other things that really bother me... dishes in the sink, full trash cans in rooms, and mail clutter. Staying on top of these things does help me.

I am going to tackle the laundry room today. It is a small room... and there is just too much stuff in there. I think the clutter in there is one of the reasons I fall behind in the battle of the laundry. Criminy the laundry just never ends does it.

Maybe we can start a thread here in EN's called our To Do list. Maybe we can all be our each other's task partners on getting stuff done. What if we just helped each other out here by being each other's support partners on household tasks? I like this idea and I am going to start a thread. Hey there is even a strikethough feature so we can actually cross items off our list. That would be kind of cool.

Cat, I really do think that your DH might be avoiding tasks in part due to his depression and in part due to what might be a fear if he cannot do something 100% then why bother. I am not saying this is easy to live with... just that I can relate to this. Do you have specific areas of the house where the clutter is an especially big issue for you? Is it possible that you could share with your H about this and maybe come up with some specific areas of the house that are designated no clutter zones and that way he can maybe move his clutter to another part of the house where he can move at his own pace to go through and you can feel okay about the rest of the house?

I know that you are thinking about doing the dumpster purge this summer and I do think that this will be very helpful. I think we are going to do it again this summer as well. Getting rid of stuff in this kind of planned way did help us.

If you could pick one or two rooms in your house that if you could declare as clutter free zones what would they be? If you can live with other rooms having more clutter which rooms would those be?

There is a book I read that was helpful in dealing with clutter. It is called It's All Too Much An Easy Plan for Living a Richer Life With Less Stuff by Peter Walsh. I liked this book particularly because his focus isn't only on how to clean up clutter but also what is behind the clutter and how to address the root issues.

It is still a struggle for me too. I keep working at it. The hurdle for me is still all or none. I know the 90 degrees is where I want to be.

I know you are frustrated with you H Cat and have been for a long time. You are sorting through 30 years of engrained patterns and it just isn't going to change overhight. I know you are working on your stuff and I know you accept that you cannot change your H. I know it is frustrating for you because he doesn't affirm you for the changes you are making. Doesn't mean he doesn't notice them... just means he is validating you for them. He just might not be able to do that right now. But other people here (your support team here) can affirm you and validate you. I know it isn't quite the same as having your H recognize but I am thinking maybe if we do a household task support thread then we can all work together to help celebrate our accomplishments in that department. Maybe if we work together there validating each other it will help us validate our spouses more for any changes they make... no matter how small they are. I don't know if it will help but I sure am willing to try.

Okay so I am thinking maybe one thread on household tasks and one of validating our DH's accomplishments. I think it might do me good to post any positive change I see in my DH and to recognize him for what he does do.

Thinking of you all,
Jilly

Cat

If theres been a window treatment sitting on the floor for

4 AND ONE HALF YEARS...................... you need to boot him smack square in the dupa. Please!!!!

I haven't read all the pages, but tell me.....am I right or wrong...if you get someone else to do it, will he or won't he get his feelings hurt that you had the sack to get someone els to do it? That you are saying through that action, that he is lax in his household duties and you have now hurt his feelings. If Im wrong, I apoligize, but I know someone JUST LIKE THIS. His wife rags at him all the time to do stuff that HE PROMISES TO DO. No, no ,no, don't call anyone, Ill DO IT. Its waaaay cheaper this way. Yeah, right. It sits there.

A guy SHOULD help around the house. Its part of being a husband to sit there and go through the HONEYDO routine. Every single widower I know (I don't know a ton, but more than a handful) ALL talk about the bossing around and the honeydo jar. And NOT ONCE have I sensed any RELIEF that its not happening anymore. I have always sensed that they,in retrospect, enjoyed it. That they LIKED feeling needed and relied upon.

Now, if a guy DOESN'T want to do it, he should ALWAYS be open to hiring out. But this thing about NOT doing something and NOT wanting to hire out........I don't get it.

MrCat has the same paper issue – he says he knows where everything is. YET, every trip he goes on, we’re up til 2 or 3, sometimes 6am, looking for a particular something. He says he knows where everything is, but he doesn’t. It’s just reflex talking. Right now, I need to find D17’s passport, and it’s terrifying me to think that it’s in one of his piles (he took it from me the last time we used it, for safe keeping). He says he doesn’t know where it is. I think that’s the main reason this is all coming to a head, cos I literally have to have it for a church mission trip, so somehow, his stacks will have to be gone through.

Jilly, MrCat still has all the boxes (about 10-12) of receipts of sales he made when he worked at a stereo store in the 70s. When I ask if he wants to keep them, every 5 years or so, as we move them, he says he’s going to need the information off of them. I say, ‘ok, let’s sit down and get the information off of them.’ He says ‘not now, I can’t deal with it right now.’ So they get stacked again.

I used to keep lots of stuff. What changed me was the two times I came really close to suicide. I started throwing all my stuff away, so no one else would have to, and because I wouldn’t need it any more, you know? Once I got past the second time, I realized I really didn’t need much of anything anyway. But I cry when I think of all the books and magazines and craft supplies I just dumped in the trash bin.

I’ve talked to MrCat about moving his stuff to another room, other than the kitchen and living room. He doesn’t acknowledge I’m talking to him, leaves the room and goes to watch tv or something. I told him that IC showed me that it was all about growing up in a deteriorating house, and I have this fear now that the house is embarrassing, like that one was; he listened to me, didn't respond, and nothing changed. Well, he did replace some rope lighting that had gone out in D17's room. The last party D17 had, I just carried or pushed (one was too heavy to pick up) all the boxes into the bedroom, along with all his other boxes of stuff. So his side of the bedroom is piled about 4 feet high with boxes and stacks. He has to maneuver around it. And I’ve told him that we need to keep most of the kitchen counters free of papers, it’s a safety issue, so I’ll put all his mail and any papers he leaves out on that one counter now. He griped, but he hasn’t turned it into a fight at least. Even D17 is afraid to touch his stuff.

I’ve saved the book to my list, thanks.

I do want to validate MrCat for things he does. I’m just gunshy, and tired of walking on a minefield and afraid of saying the wrong thing. If I could just talk to him without getting yelled at, I could ask him how best to do it, but he doesn’t want to talk about anything to do with the marriage. But I’ll keep looking for ways. And I’m trying hard to catch myself before I fall into the power struggle things, like EE says. It’s a lot better than it was 6 months ago, when I just hated him. Now I pay more attention to his moods and try to do little things for him to help, like get him medicine with this cold he has right now, or get an extra pillow, or go out and help with his ditch. It may not seem like it to EE, but MrCat has it pretty good in his house.

Thanks GG. He’s extremely into not spending money and extremely handy, so he sees no reason to pay anyone for anything. But he’s also an extreme procrastinator, plus the power struggle thing and equating me with his mother and being determined not to knuckle down to what I ask for, so…it just doesn’t get done. And if I bring something up a second time, I’m nagging and insulting him.

I know you’re all right. I just need to grow a pair and do what I need to do and weather the yelling and the pouting and the sighing and the foot tapping. I’m just so terrified after all these years, I get petrified just thinking about it.

Hey Cat?

Rather than go through all that anxiety - why not just take your daughter for another passport? Seems like it would be a heck of a lot easier to do that than dig for the old one.

I guess because I was worried she'd get lost in the passport mess going on right now; she has to have it in 3 months, and I've been hearing horror stories about 6 to 9 months. Do you know if they cancel your old one somehow if you apply for a new one, like a credit card? I was afraid that if I put the application in, if we tried to use the old one it would get bounced somehow. I have no idea how that works.

Cat, they have pretty much cleared up the passport mess. My son and I renewed ours right before xmas and we got our new ones in less than 3 weeks. The lady at the passport office said the backlog was gone. You might want to ask. Worse case scenario, you can pay an extra $100 to get it expedited.

Really? That's a relief. I'll take care of it next week then. Thanks for the news.

Cat,

Here's the link for lost passports and info on what to do. It appears like it is easier to apply for a new one, but if she already has one I think you have to report it lost, but I don't know that for sure.

Passport Info

How far is it to the nearest passport agency? I think you might have to do the renewal process in person. This being said, I believe if I read correctly that you can do an expedited process it just costs more. There are some phone numbers in the link and they stay open from 7am to midnight so you might be able to catch someone by phone who may be able to tell you what the best route to go is.

I know there has been a security crackdown with regards to passports but my guess is that it wouldn't be that uncommon for a teenager to lose a passport and I am sure that these govermental agency are versed in how to handle it as quickly as possible.

Why not give them a call and see what they say. It can't hurt to find out what your options are. I have no idea where my passport is and I am pretty sure it is expired anyway. Since I am not planning on travelling out of the country anytime soon I haven't done anything about reporting it missing. It has probably been at least 10 years since I lost it.

Anyway... just wanted to check in and let you know that I am cleaning out the laundry room and taking a little break right now.

Oh my goodness... I am shocked to find out just how many cleaning products I had stored in the laundry room cabinets and that isn't counting all the ones in the cabinets under the sinks in the kitchen and both bathrooms. It is really really embarrassing to know how much money I have wasted on cleaning supplies which I already have 3, 4, 5, or more of. I am trying to figure out why I kept buying more cleaning supplies when I know I knew I had them stockpiled in there. I guess I just really didn't realize just HOW much stuff was actually there.

Needless to say there are probably enough cleaning supplies to last for probably 5 years.

I have all the stuff out in the hallway outside the laundry room and as DH was walking by I said jokingly that I probably wouldn't need to buy any products for a long time. He said yeah I noticed that about you a long time ago... he said you are a bit compulsive about cleaning stuff. He said he never understood why I needed 5 bottles of clorox on the shelf in the garage. Yikes I realize I have even more stuff out there. And get this I started justifying that I really do go through a lot of bleach with the laundry. He makes a good point as I go to the grocery store once a week and it isn't like I am going to run out between now and next week. He wasn't DJing either... he was just being honest.

I wonder if some of this might have started when I used to buy cleaning stuff at Costco and you would get like three of whatever product you were buying. I try to stay out of Costco for the most part because I wind up spending money on stuff we don't really need. But the reason I am wondering if this overbuying of cleaning products came from having an abudance all the time from when I bought at Costco and somehow after instead of buying one of something at the store I would buy two. I think I have also gotten into the habit of stocking up on stuff when it was on sale... but seriously when I saw it all out in the hallway right now... ugh I definitely need to get a handle on that.

I wonder if I thought if I bought enough supplies the house would clean itself. LOL.


Okay so I am vowing to myself not to buy any cleaning supplies until I am completely or almost completely out of something.

I guess the positive of this will be I won't have to spend any money of this for a long time.

Good luck with the passport stuff.

Jilly

Thanks. I remember reading that about having to report the passport stolen; that must have been why I thought I couldn't use the old one if I found it. It expires next year anyway, so I might as well do it now.

Hi Gaba,

I wish there were more men like you around. My dh is much like you and feels that it's his job to do the honey-do list since I take care of the rest of the house and make sure we have food in the kitchen, and nice things around the rest of the place to use (clean towels, etc).

I've often thought that Cat should shove all of dh's things in the garage and let him deal with it at his leisure.

LOL, but if I did that, I would be worse than him, in some people's eyes. When he came home he asked if I wanted him to make dinner (?!) or heat up leftovers or go out. So I said I needed to work on the taxes, but he should take D17 out, so they did. So when they came home from dinner, he took out another pile of paper and is going through it right now! He even took a pile of the trash and put it in the trash can. So I'm going back to EE's post about what I'm supposed to say to him afterward and memorize it so I can try it.

I also told him that I tried to get a prescription filled today for the ADs and how the pharmacy said they had to get written authorization from the doctor (at which I said, isn't the prescription his written authorization? they said, he has to justify it in writing, or they will refuse it; so I could be waiting up to 5-6 days). Anyway, I made sure I told MrCat about it, so it was a sideways way of saying that I'm depressed and need to be back on ADs. I figured that way, he wouldn't feel like I was connecting it to him in any way (blaming him for my depression), to make sure that it wasn't a DJ or me controlling him. See, EE, I'm trying to understand you.

I'm trying to be more assertive yet fair about it.