So long as you are married, in most states you are responsible for 1/2 of the family unit's debt. If she's on meth, she will unlikely be able to hold a job, and will need to feed her habit.

You'd best be getting to a lawyer and get your family assets protected though a legal separation, and fast.

Rock bottom for her will be swift and hard... If I were in your shoes, I'd get out of the way and let it happen. Once she seeks and finds recovery successfully, you can evaluate your options then.

Today, protect your a$$ets, if you get my drift!

sd

Dude stop being a chump. You are getting played. R is great, but some WS should not be welcomed back. She cheated on you 4 months after the wedding and continues to do so. Now she's doing drugs!! Why do you want this woman back? Count your lucky stars she left and be happy.

I have to agree with the others. Your wife is in a free-fall now and it's not going to get better until she crashes and burns. Meth is a SERIOUS drug that will destroy those in its path. Are you really willing to join her on her destructive path? What's it going to take?

Sledeen,

First request please make paragraphs. It is hard to read your long posts with no breaks in them.

Second, suggestion is that you consider why you are "controlling". I'll offer you something to consider. You are controlling because you don't have boundaries that you are willing to enforce.

IF you had a boundary that said I will not tolerate my W cheating, doing drugs, getting drunk, picking up guys (you pick which ones are YOUR boundaries), then you would not have to try and tell her what to do. You simply state your boundaries, and if they are crossed to take action. In this case divorce seems warrented (no kids, multiple affairs, drugs, etc). You don't threaten, you don't negotiate, you simply do what is right.

IF she changed sought counseling and had a new perspective on you , herself, and her life, the forgiveness and perhaps another chance is warrented. But she has done none of those things.

YOUR JOB is to figure out your boundaries and enforce them, then the need to control is removed. IT is her life, her decisions, and you cannot live her life for her.

My recommendation is that if you want to consider continuing this marriage, go to plan B. Don't give her a key, let her seek legal help to make you do it. Don't talk with her, don't cushion her fall (she will hit bottom, on her bottom very likely). Set your goals for life and start after them, and I would think one goal would to be in a marriage that makes you happy.

Please consider these things.

God Bless,

JL

She's still confusing me. I talked to her today, and it seems like she's scared to try again, mainly cause we've been through everything so many times. She says we need to be friends before we can even think about working things out, yet refuses to give up the OM. Now here's the kicker... when I said I didn't trust other men around her, she said I really didn't trust her. But when OM says he doesn't trust me, she doesn't think twice about what he says. The OM is really insecure, as he got angry when I sent her 1/2 dozen red roses, she liked them, but didn't like him getting angry and asked me not to buy anymore. When she stopped by today to talk for a bit, she said she was supposed to be back in 15 minutes, and since it had been 20, she was having to stop him from coming over. Now, I may have been insecure about my place in her life, but I've never went looking for her when she was late, I trusted her enough to take care of herself. Basically she said about the flowers, OM feels like she will leave him over it. I have no idea where my WS mind is at, one second she says there's no way possible to work things out, next second she says maybe in the future, but not right now. I told her how I didn't appreciate OM mouthing off in the background everytime I talked to her on the phone, she says she doesn't know what his problem is. So far, I asked her to date me to see if we could work things out, she wouldn't cause he didn't want her too. I sent her flowers, twice, and she says don't buy anymore cause he gets mad about it. I invite her over to talk, and he texts her the whole time is here, and she leaves abrubtly cause she tells him she'll only be here X amount of time. And she said I was controlling? How can she possibly view OM any differently than what she was accusing me of? In fact he's worse than I ever was with her, and I'm the one getting counseling? Anyways, just needed to vent a bit...

Hon, she needs professional help to find out why she needs to be treated poorly. No offense to you, but she has definite issues. I'm sure you love her, but...why? I'm not trying to be mean, just to get you thinking about whether you truly love her 'inner being' or just want her. You haven't described many loveworthy traits in her.

IMO, IF you wanted her back, I would refuse to LET her back until she has learned to live on her own for at least 6 months to a year. That's what we tell people with codependency issues. If you were to take her back right now, she would have learned nothing, you would have learned nothing, and you would be right back in the same position in 6 months. From what I can tell, she REacts, based on feeling, based on her FOO needs for getting feedback from males, to prove her loveability and worth. If I had to guess, she had a bad relationship with her father. What that means, though, is that unless you stay on top of your game - for the rest of your life! - she'll decide you don't feed that need well enough, and keep looking for more and more guys to 'do it' for her.

Can I just be blunt and rude? Get over her, move on, and find a woman who deserves you. You deserve better. JMHO

Alright, first of all, I was never one for grammer so excuse the non existant paragraphs. This is what has happened since the last post. We talked for like 45 minutes last Wednesday, going over why she was scared to come back and try again, at one point she said we might as well give up, but later said we might try again in the future. She said we needed to be friends before we could be husband and wife, but she won't leave OM cause she is happy where she is at. I'm thinking, how can you be happy, when everytime you are on the phone with someone, he's bitching, wanting attention. How can you be happy when he doesn't trust you to go anywhere by yourself, she was over here 20 mins that day and he was wanting to come over. She says he doesn't trust me, but if that were the case, he wouldn't have told her he felt like he was going to lose her when I sent her roses. How can she be happy, right now her only form of income is babysitting our niece, which doesn't bring in but maybe 40 dollars a week, so she's broke constantly, asking people to borrow money. In fact, she just asked me today to borrow money, this would make the 3rd time she's tried and I told her I didn't have it, which I don't cause I just paid bills. Anyways, she just found out the truth about OM's children and child support, cause he was claiming he only had one kid that was adopted out by state and didn't have to pay child support. But he's on probation for non-support, has 3 kids and has been hiding bank accounts from the courts which the courts just found out and froze them. Anyways, somebody printed off all this info and sent her, some distant friends of hers of some sort, I don't know them myself, but inside I'm laughing about it. They must've worked through that or she's stewing over it till they get in a fight, cause things seem to be snafu over there. Anyways, she's talking to me off and on, but pretty much refuses to talk about us right now, or even come over, even though she says she misses the dogs a lot and wants to be able to see them whenever she wants. I'm not sure what she wants exactly, I'm thinking I'm more of a safety net or something, cause she has shown she cares about my health within the last couple days, and still trys to talk to me from time to time, like she doesn't want to lose me completely. Safety net like I said, she knows I would take her back if it came down to it, so she's playing her game with the OM till he hurts her. Which he's gotten ahold of an ex recently trying to get her number and make plans (kinda stupid to leave the comments on his ex's profile), and this happens to be a girl that my WS hates cause the girl hit on me in front of her one night in the bar. What possible reason could OM have to get ahold of an ex his current gf hates, not to mention the reputation both have of being promiscuous? Anyways, I would point this out to my WS, but she would probably say I'm butting in where I don't belong. Basically what it boils down to right now, OM seems to be wanting to play the field again, looking at possible jailtime from what I hear. As far as my WS goes, she's trying hard not to piss him off, and get things to work with him, but is going downhill fast. As far as her with me goes, she's keeping me in her life, shows concern for me from time to time, but refuses to work things out "right now"... actual words are "I can't right now" when asked about it. I've been going to counseling, finally started eating more, still smoking like a chimney though, but have decided to start a small workout regimine to try to get to looking better. I bought a motorcycle from my father as well, which I know she likes just as much as I do, which is why it's setting outside where she can see it, kinda to rub it in, so to speak. I don't see things working out between WS and OM much longer, its all about sex and attention right now, but money will cause a lot of stress as well as his attitude towards her. Basically she seems to be putting up with love busters from him, that I admit I was doing until she left, which I've been working on eliminating. After everything that has happened, I pretty much can guess 3 of her top 5 emotional needs, which are all things I'm willing to work at if she comes back. She has admitted we are talking better right now than before she left. I'll give plan A some more time, but not sure how much more, it's starting to look like if things don't end soon between them, I may need to switch to plan B. Again, sorry for the long post, and for the lack of paragraphs.

Can you afford to call the Harley's? Sounds like plan B will push her off the fence.

Alright, here I am again, kinda confused. Today started out, I texted her asking how babysitting out neice was going, she said fine, but she was tired. Then turned around and said when we cashed the federal tax check, that would be it. I asked her why she was treating me this way, she said what way, I said like she was mad and wanted nothing to do with me. She told me that everytime she comes over I try to get her to come back. That's when things started getting interesting. I told her that Marraige isn't always easy, but it's no reason to give up and run away, that it's a serious commitment. She said she was scared I would get pissed off and hit her sometime, and I told her that I never done that before, but as far as getting pissed, that's why I was getting counseling. She told me about the marriage thing, "What if one person isn't "in love" with the other" I told her that it was possible to get those feelings back, she said she wasn't so sure. I told her that I did. She asked me what I meant, I told her that when she cheated on me and I left cause I wasn't sure how I felt about her anymore, but I came back. She asked if I felt that way, why did I come back... I told her that I realized what a mistake I was making, that I knew she cared about me and i hurt her and felt awful for it, and that I knew how much she meant to me and how much more she meant when she took me back. She said, So what do you want me to say. I said, that's up to you, but you know I don't want to treat you bad anymore, I don't want to hurt you anymore, I love you. She then said she didn't know what to say or do anymore. I said well give it some thought, do you really want to give up this easily? no reply... so I said, I want a future with you, and am willing to do whatever it takes, including counseling. She said, I don't know. Well later on she showed up to the bank, but seemed kinda pissy, cause apparently her sister told her she wouldn't be able to come over after the bank, cause I had plans. I had said that about last night, not today... and she said something about how I wouldn't back off enough whenever we talked, which is why she was upset. I told her that I loved her and missed her, which is why I tried... she means everything to me... well, she left. I then talked to a friend, actually a neighbor of theirs... and he said OM and WS was in front yard fighting over the news OM had knocked up some girl, and WS was really angry, yesterday. The neighbor turned down his TV and watched them thinking this was entertainment and thought they were going to get in a fist fight... 45 min arguement. Apparently this is a usual occurance anymore... every 2 to 3 days, so I don't see how WS says she is happy where she is at. I think she's just being stubborn and doesn't want to admit in the long run, cause then she would be wrong. Between arguing, lack of money, finding about his string of children, him complaining about everytime she's on the phone, including people she doesn't even know... well, I just don't see how it's going to last, much less how she can claim to be happy. That's just me... most affairs don't last, I know that... just wish this would end already. Well, I'm eating, then going over to a friends, so I'll let everyone go for now, will keep informed as things progress or erupt, whichever happens.

sledeen, would you do me a favor? Write a list of pros and cons about your W and post it here. I'd like to see it.

If I did a list of pros and cons, I'm sure that you would think the cons outweigh the pros... so I just don't feel like doing it. I'm not sure what's going to end up happening... I'm having to back off, cut most contact with her off unless she gets ahold of me, and even then keep it short. OM's past works against him even now, as he's had at least 6 gf's in 8 months now, not to mention 5 kids that have been confirmed, when he was only claiming to WS to have one. I think it's just a matter of time before OM starts to move on, and play the field so to speak. So as long as I back off, treat her with respect when we do talk, and talk nicely, I'll give her less reason to "hate" me. She basically says I'm being too pushy and not respecting her decision, even though I think we both know it's not going to work. I hear they get in arguements almost daily anymore. Even WS and I didn't get into that many arguements, maybe once or twice a month. As the website suggests, he might be meeting a couple of her emotional needs, but he's not meeting all of them. She knows I've been going to counseling to work on my problems, and to eliminate the love busters as this website would put it. I'm not sure what else to do anymore, other than back off and let her hit rock bottom so to speak. She's burnt so many bridges in the past couple months, I'm not sure where she will go when things don't work with him. I have explained that when I left for 2 months about 3 years ago, I felt much the same way she does right now. I came back though, realizing what a mistake I was making and how much she meant to me. I told her I know it's possible to get the feelings back, if given a chance... just like I told her if she had talked to me before this all happened, I would've been more than willing to go see a marriage counselor. When she first left and I suggested marriage counseling, she said "No, it would bring up too many issues", now she says, "I told you I don't need help or want it"... so, I'm left to myself for now, and trying to cope the best I can, until it blows up. Even one of her friends says that this is more of a rebound and it won't last, especially knowing OM. It's a timebomb waiting to explode on her, and I'll be here for her when she needs me, if she chooses to come back. She's not the best person in the world, I know that, and can accept it. I still love her and miss her.

I'm starting to get tired of the emotional roller coaster she's putting me through. For the last week, she's been acting confused. When I explained to her why I left 3 years ago for a couple months, which is basically cause I wasn't sure how I felt about her after she had cheated on me, she asked me why I came back. I told her in the long run, I realized what a mistake I was making, that I was hurting someone that cared about me, and I realized how much she did mean to me. Her only response to this was, What do you want me to say, I don't know what to say or do anymore. When I said I still wanted a future with her, and was willing to do whatever it takes, including counseling; she said, "I don't know"

Well, we've been talking off and on, though it seems more like when she wants something anymore. A couple days ago, she showed up unexpectedly, asking what we had in the apartment to eat. I was thinking, great, she acts like this is a grocery store. But I started a conversation with her.

It started off with me telling her I missed her, and I couldn't help it, she said she knows. I asked her if she wanted to give up and divorce, or if we were going to work things out? She said,"I don't know." She said I was realizing things too late, I told her better late than never, and that it's never too late, and it's all in her mind. I asked her if she loved me, she said she loves me, isn't "in" love with me, but will always love me. I said it's possible to get those feelings back, I did. She got mad that I didn't listen to her about the friends she would complain about cause they always pressured me and tried to get me to leave her. She also got mad that I reverted back in October after she came back from being gone a week. Asked me why, I told her that she made it seem like she didn't want me to have my friends, she replied, well i gave up some friends for you, and I told you what they were doing. I admitted I was wrong about it, and said I was sorry, I should've listened all along. As far as reverting, I'm not sure, I know I was wrong and I'm sorry that I put her through it again. She said she couldn't try right now, won't put herself through it again, I said I wouldn't put her through it again, that I'm getting counseling so that I won't treat her the same way. I told her I was being honest and sincere, that her whole family knows it, why doesn't she?. I then said I don't want to end up this way, what will it take to work things out? She said I don't know. I said I was trying my hardest to change those behaviors, and she said she knew. I asked her why she doesn't believe in me, and she said she never said that, that she does believe in me, she knows I'm trying, she knows I'm sorry. She started crying about that time, said she she hurts and is upset that I didn't listen before, I told her that I'm hurting too, knowing that I put her through that, that she's scared of me, also for knowing what's going on. She said she has to forgive me, that it's hard for her to do, but she needs time and space to do it. I asked her if we are going to be alright, if she will be able to forgive me for the past, and focus on the present and future? she said she didn't know. As she was leaving and crying, I was crying and said I'm sorry if I made you upset, I'm sorry if I made you cry, I'm sorry about the past, I don't want to treat you that way again, she said I know, that she had to go, and I said as she left, I love you and miss you... she said yeah and shut the door.

Well then today, she calls me up, asks me to borrow money to buy lunchmeat and bread, cause she was out of food. I said I could pick up the stuff for her, if she would stop by while I was on lunch. She did, and said "Thank you for doing this for me, I appreciate it", looked me in the eyes, looked away and looked back like she was thinking about saying something, or doing something. She then stepped in, kissed me on the cheek, and said she had to go. I told her I love her as she left, and she said I know.

I have no idea what she is thinking, seems to refuse to leave him, but at the same time I hear they are arguing more and more frequently. In fact I hear last Thursday they were arguing, she went to leave, he grabbed her arm to stop her and she spun around and slapped him. That would be about the time she started acting confused about me. 4 weeks ago, she said there was no way we can work things out, but now it's changed to a maybe. I don't know how much longer I can take this, I can try plan A for awhile longer, but the longer I have to wait on an answer, the closer to plan B or even D I come. I still love her, that's not the problem... it's the up and down effect of the emotional rollercoaster she's put me on. There's that, and I'm beginning to get scared that she's just building up my hopes about working things out, and is just going to end up crushing them, and I won't know what to do if that happens. Anyways, that's enough for tonight, I gotta get to bed. I'll c ya all later...lol, most likely tomorrow, as I check the website daily, re-reading everything and checking the forum.

sledeen, I really wish you could think about this more logically. Your wife cheated on you as soon as you got married! She cheated on you again! She lied. She uses you for a grocery store.

And you apologize? Look, I get that you're trying to be the great person so she can recognize what she's missing. But there's a difference between being a good man and turning yourself into the cause of all her actions. How will she respect you - and your marriage - if you don't respect yourself? Please consider taking another look at your marriage and your role in it.

Maybe I forgot, but what happened after the first affair? Were there any consequences? Did you ask her to prove to you that she was being faithful? Did she apologize? Did you sit down and talk about what happened? If not, she just learned that she can cake eat.

I think you're sabotaging your chances of recovering your marriage by continuing to be there for her to mosey on over and grab some food whenever she's broke. You are PAYING for her affair! People, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this situation call for Plan B? To remove her access to sledeen until she gives up the affair? Because if you just do what you're doing, you're helping her have her affair. And when this affair goes sour and she's got no place else to go, sure she'll come back. But it will only be until she finds another guy she likes better. And she's going to expect you to bankroll that one, too.

Unless you start doing things differently.

IMO I think it calls for a permanent "Plan B". The longer Sledeen keeps that cheating cake-eater in his life, less opportunity he would have to meet someone who truly cares about him.

Sledeen, you can't force her to change, but you can change YOU. Extract yourself from that situation - that would be my advice.

One of the primary rules for a BS is to NOT enable the affair, in Plan A, or Plan B.

Your WW has moved out, she has left the M. She has left the benefits the marriage provided. The comfort, the companionship, and apparently even the food, sad as that is.

While she continues to make these choices, you have to stop supporting her. If she wants to spend time with you, eat with you, that's fine. If you are attempting Plan A while she is moved out, I would say that would involve telling her "I'm sorry you don't have money for food, come by and have lunch/dinner/breakfast with me whenever you want." It does not involve taking her grocery shopping for her to bring food to whomever, wherever. See, she gets to choose what is important. She is choosing now to be somewhere where basic things such as food aren't easily available to her. She is choosing that over the marriage. Allow her to choose that, but don't HELP her choose that by sending whatever she needs; food, money, whatever, somewhere else.

It is part bringing reality (I have in the past referred to it as wielding the 'reality hammer'!) She is choosing life without the benefits you provide, so stop providing the benefits.

I've started excusing off why I can't help her, mainly cause I'm not sure how she will react outright. She asks for money, I act like I'm going over my bank balance, figure up what I still need to get and what bills are paid or need paid, etc... and tell her, I'm sorry, I would help you if I could, but I'm barely making it myself. So, I'm trying to find a way to cut the supply line, at least she hasn't come over for anything in the last few days... not sure what to do about that. She's playing both sides from the sounds of things, trying to reassure him she's not going to leave, because he keeps telling her he feels like she will. Also, he's getting mad at her for going out with her friends without him. Basically, it's everything that took us 6 1/2 years to get to, and it's happening in 2 months. She asked him to trust her again... not sure what that was about. I don't see it lasting much longer between him, given his past, and her excuses for leaving me. Meanwhile, she's acting confused about me. I bought tickets for a concert, buying an extra one for her just in case. I already have someone lined up to buy it if she doesn't go, so it's not like I'm out of the money or anything, but they know the situation. I asked her about going, and she says I don't know. I actually asked her the other day, "Do you want to give up and divorce, or are we going to work things out?" Her reply was "I don't know"... that wasn't the only question about working things out that received an I don't know as an answer. Her excuse for now as far as not working things out is twofold...first part, she has to be able to forgive me, second part is she is with him. Well the second part is about to go out the window it seems. 5 arguements in the last 2 weeks, him telling her that he feels like she's going to leave, her beginning to feel like he doesn't trust her, I heard during one arguement she even slapped him. It's nice knowing the neighbor to them, keeps me informed about what's happening, especially since it seems they take their arguements outside. As far as forgiving me, it's a pretty weak excuse right now, considering she says she knows I'm sorry, knows I'm trying, knows how I feel about her, and when I asked her why she doesn't believe in me, she said "I never said that I don't believe in you, I do". I think she's just waiting to see where it goes between her and OM, and when it doesn't work out, she'll try coming back. I guess in the long run, I'm trying to decide what's best when that happens. Because it feels like she'll be back cause she thinks she has no choice, and I don't want her to come back for that reason, I want her to come back because she wants to. I'm thinking she needs to go stay with her mom for awhile, we can still talk, but she needs to have the time to think and decide what she actually wants to do. I feel that if she comes back by choice, she'll be more willing to work things out. If she comes back cause she feels she has no choice, then the chances of this happening again increase greatly, no matter how well I try to treat her. I've read up on the site about EN and LB, and realize what needs to be done, as well as going to counseling. I've had 8 weeks to learn from my mistakes, cause I know it's not all her, that some of her complaints had basis in reality, but at the same time I know it's not all me. I can't be a doormat, but at the same time I will be there trying to fill her EN, everything except finacially, I cannot support her while she is with him, cause it supports them both in the long run. In fact she's starting a job at a local factory soon, problem there is, she lost her last job for several reasons, and that job was lax in their rules compared to this local factory. She claims to have carpel tunnel as well, so between that, no cell phones allowed at all, limited breaks, the fast pace at this factory and not being able to leave the line whenever she wants, I doubt it will last long. I give it a week and a half tops. You are right though, she chose this lifestyle, she'll have to deal with the consequences of it.

I have been reading your posts she has to be able to forgive you is a odd responce doesn't sound like you are the one that needs to be forgiven She is cake eating she knows youlle be there it sounds like you are starting to get fed up with her ways I hope things work out in your favor but remmember this is something i just recently discovered myself You can't Make some one want you.

Eventually her selfishness will wither and she may find her self alone I feel for ya hope it changes for the better.


U.

sledeen, here is my 2X4. Look, I get that you love her. But you really really really need to ask yourself why.

Why do you feel you deserve someone who has multiple affairs within a short period, is completely f'd up as far as life skills, jobs, drugs, morals, and then tells you that she needs to learn HOW TO FORGIVE YOU?!

If you had a brother who had a wife doing all these things, what would you be telling him to do? Would you tell him to keep eating his soul out every time she dumps him or sneaks and lies behind his back for another man? When she supposedly is in love with him and wants to be married to him for 50 more years? Of course you wouldn't. You wouldn't want to see him plastering himself on the floor so that she has a clean place to walk, all the while patting him on the head and saying, 'hmmm, yeah, I'll let you know if I think you're doing enough for me to make me want to stay with you.'

Do you see how ludicrous this is? If it was one affair, I'd be right behind you, supporting you all the way. But she is seriously messed up! She doesn't love you. She's not mature enough to know what love is. She is entirely into me-me-me mode and NOBODY matters in that little world except her. Do you see that you being nice to her will only teach her it's even easier than she thought to cake eat? She's probably already looking around, to see which next guy she can leech off of.

Sorry I'm so harsh, but you are in serious self-destruct mode. You can't even tell her NO, even after everything she has done. You can't just say 'no, I won't give you money.' You have to lie and say 'no, I don't have any money this week' - which implies that if you did have the money, you'd be giving it to her. If you can't even tell her that one little no, how the h&ll will you ever stand up to her future selfish demands, which will be twice as big as this time, given that you've proved to her that you will be her doormat, kiss her toes, and ask her how high you should jump. Did you grow up thinking you wanted to be a person who would lie? Did you grow up thinking you would give up yourself, your core, just to keep this woman - or any woman - when you're not part of an equal equation? That is not love, sledeen. That is a very dysfunctional relationship, and nobody thinks you should be in one. Is that what your mother would want?

You have GOT to stop this! Ask yourself why you feel such a need to be 'loved' by such a person. I promise you, the answer is all about you. Your self-esteem issues. Your family of origin issues.

Get yourself to a good IC, and start working on why you are like this, so you can protect yourself from marrying women who treat you like an ATM machine.

Again, sorry for the 2X4, but it's painful reading this. I have a suggestion. Go over to Emotional Needs section, and find a post by youngandlearning. She's going through the same sort of thing, kind of, though hers is physical abuse as well as mental abuse, like you're going through. Might be an eye opener.

Stop making excuses to her for not supporting her. When she asks for money, you tell her "I will not give you money while you are deliberately destroying our marriage. I will use OUR money responsibly and protect our assets for when you decide to end your A and begin to work on our M." Same thing with buying groceries, gas, anything. It will make her mad, sure. It will also cause her to begin to respect you when she realizes that you won't be walked on any longer.

You have to ALLOW her to hit rock bottom on her own. She is not going to come to her senses until she does, and it is not in your best interests to cushion the fall. What's the worst that happens? She lives broke and jobless while OM gets sick of supporting her and dealing with her crap? Meanwhile, you're sitting pretty, rebuilding your life with your finances intact. Suddenly you start to look pretty good when the reality of her choices hits her in the face, doesn't it?

There's no reason to lie to her or pretend that this is anything other than what it is sledeen. Doing that actually hurts you and your chances for recovering this. You might reach a point where you don't care if she comes back or not. That's ok too, but until you do, work the plans the RIGHT way.

Work on yourself, make yourself a better husband, better person. Establish firm boundaries and resolve not to support her in her painful decisions. You know all you can control is you. She's shown time and again that you cannot MAKE her do what you want. Thats ok, you don't want to make her do anything at this point anyway do you? Either she chooses to come back, or she doesn't, either way, you come out better from following a plan.

Sledeen,

Interesting reading. You know why? Your W is smarter than you. She knows something you don't know and that is you have NOT changed one bit. Oh! the exact acts may have changed, but motivation and excuses continue.

Sounds odd doesn't it? Sounds like a 2X12 doesn't it? Well it is.

The same logic that allows you to continue to grovel, make excuses for your failure to act, for your failure to maintain boundaries, are essentially the excuses you used to excuse YOUR violations of her boundaries and yours as well.

She KNOWS you have not changed one bit, because your behavior has not changed one bit. You left and came back. She left and you continue to grovel to get her back. There is a huge difference between groveling and plan A. One is that you quit making excuses and start protecting your boundaries.

You either don't have boundaries, part of the problem in the past, or you don't have the will/strength/honesty to protect also a problem in the past.

She'll come back to use you, but she will NOT come back to stay as long as you don't change. You have not changed one bit.

Heck you don't even change when people ask you to hit a return button from time to time so it makes it easier for us to read your story and help you. IF you ever decide to actually change, discover and enforce your boundaries, YOU MIGHT have a chance at a marriage with this woman, if you don't...new day, same ****.

You need to do some serious thinking and do some searching internally for what YOU want out of life, and what boundaries you need to enforce to obtain them.

Think about it.

JL