Well, been divorced since November of last year after 4 years of painful affair laden marriage. Near the end of the divorce proceedings (papers were signed and waiting judge) I started dating a woman whom I work with and have known for years.

She has been divorced since 2005 but had just removed her ex-husband from their house in April 2007. He had terrorized her with emotional abuse of varying kinds

When we started dating, we had been talking for several months on the phone and had built a solid friendship. From October to December we had taken 4 days off together and went out on a few other “night” time dates. Just finding time together is difficult due to family, church, work obligations, etc.

In late December, she left to visit her family in Fla and after she came back it was decided to start involving kids in the outings. This was based on the feeling that we were both comfortable that this relationship would last a while and had the potential to lead to higher levels of commitment long term.

Of course, all these decisions were made with her input and blessing. Since January, things have been great except for a few things.

I. She has trouble with her ex wanting to get back together. I have dicussed with her at length and she has no intention doing that regardless of me. She is afraid of him as he was arrested before for being in their home with a gun waiting to shoot her. In addition, she has the highest quality of heart and he uses the children to manipulate her with guilt. Basically, he is a loser, I think
II. Due to her fears somewhat described above, she will not even state that we are dating. Honestly, I do not know what we are doing, I see it as dating and I simply ignore her fear laden response. But, this bothers me in that I love her and it is painful to think that something so beautiful is not the same in her eyes?
III. Due to above, she has really given no direction to the future. I feel like I am walking down a path of destruction with my eyes wide open?? I can not imagine that we are both putting the kids into this with the above issues, but I do not know how to address this without coming off insensitive to her issues?

My ex-wife and I, on the other hand, have an excellent divorce relationship. I do not ever want her back, but I can tolerate her as a friend for the sake of the kids. This is my job as a father. So, it is really all good there.

In general, life is great, daisies and roses with no thorns but I do have some frustrations like everyone else. Thanks for listening

Anyways, there is a lot more but thanks for letting me vent and any input is appreciated

Beware......

I would not have the kids be any more involved with her. I think there are red flags all over the place. An exhusband who did not even leave the house for 2 years after the divorce? One who is still trying to interfere in her life and wanting to get back together. If he had a gun on her, what makes you think you or your kids are safe? And she doesn't call what you do "dating"? Sounds like she is not ready to be dating yet.

I'd definitely heed the signs you are getting. Sounds like she has a lot of drama in her life due to her ex. Personally, I'd step wayyyy back from this situation.

mlhb

I agree with your assessment and I am not afraid to do that. However, how can you do that properly? Do you have a talk with her and explain the fears? Then step back?

I have issues with that because I really am the type that when I disengage, it will be for good. I do not want her to feel I am forcing my way, but, on the flip side, something needs to change.

If you step back, then things change, haven't you changed the relationship by "forcing" the issue?

With respect to the gun, I think the guy is just an idiot. If he had wanted to kill here, he could have. Instead he got caught, in his own house, before she came home. My feeling is he wanted her to know he was there, with a gun, and drive fear into her. Mission accomplished. So, I am not so uneasy about the kids except the potential for him to show up at her house and cause a scene. Of course, she has EPO, so that shouldn't happen but you never know

Regarding the leaving the house for 2 years. I agree, I can't understand or explain it. I think it was a combination of things including her feeling "responsible" for him, fear of him, etc. The only reason he ever left is she got him arrested for DUI (he had a drug problem which he spent 3 months in rehab) This is when she changed locks, etc.

The "dating" thing has to do with a control issue. Her ex had people follow her, taped her, constantly kept watch of her, etc. This is what she explained was her rationale to not want to speak of "dating". Of course, realistically, we act normal like a couple who is dating but she just can't verbalize that. Also, she is very closed normally in that she does not want to make herself vulnerable verbally. So, I am not quite sure what is her normal charachteristic and what is a fear?

well, i guess you have to decide if you want all of the drama and baggage she apparently comes with.

communication is definitely key in all situations. tell her what your needs are and if she cannot meet them, then you know it is time to move on.

mlhb

Beware indeed!!!

One question...do you know from any source other than your new girlfriend just what the nature of her ex husband really is?

I only say this because I can just imagine how my WW has described me and our relationship to others...especially to OM.

Things are not always what they seem...

Walk away...well away, until there's significantly more distance, both emotional, chronological and physical from her previous marriage...

I guess that I haven't come to the point where I am ready to have the "talk" and be ready to walk. I let her know how I feel and basically watch to see what her actions are to improve in those areas. As long as there has been constant progress, I am OK. At some point though, enough is enough, and she has to sh@# or get off the pot, so to say.

Of course I don't want the baggage in the relationship, but I realize almost any woman(especially older) is going to have some baggage. She meets many of the key items I am looking for in a woman, but this item has me very leery.

My tentative plan is to have the "talk" and just open the relationship up to dating other people rather than ending it totally. But, I am still undecided, because if she decided to meet those needs after opening up the relationship, what has the relationship lost due to that confrontation? I don't know....

One question...do you know from any source other than your new girlfriend just what the nature of her ex husband really is?

No, this is a great point. I will research and see what I can find out.

I agree with that point because I am sure all of us make out our exes to be pretty bad sometimes. Some of them sure were, but others, maybe not so much.

After dealing with exbf for well over a year, and remembering the things he had said about his ex, by the time the R ended, I could completely understand how that woman must have felt and why she acted as she did sometimes! And I am quite sure she was not nearly as bad as he made her out to be.

mlhb

GF-
I just had a few thoughts....

I think that if she had that horrible of a R, she may be a little
gun shy of getting into a big serious R.

But, you say that you love her. How could you love her, and have the 'talk' with her, and begin to date other people?

Is there someone that you have in mind to date? I think that if you were to break up, and you loved her, you would not want to jump back into dating.

Do you think that she is dating anyone else? If not, what is the hurry?

I would definetly keep the kids out of the situation.

Just my 2 cents...

But, you say that you love her. How could you love her, and have the 'talk' with her, and begin to date other people?

I don't want to date other people.

However, I do not want to go on the way we are either and be controlled by a man I do not even know. I really don't know of another way out without losing my sanity and self respect.

Do you think that she is dating anyone else? If not, what is the hurry?

There is no way she is dating anyone else. I have 100% confidence in her there. (I learned my lesson the first time around and carefully watch others)

There is no real hurry. I have nothing but time. I need some guidance, direction, and acknowedgement that "Yeah, this is good and what I want to do for now". No strings attached, no wedding rings, or anything. Is this too much to ask for?

Also, her fears totally conflict with one of my greatest needs after my M ended. I swore that I would never be in a relationship where I was not the single most important person to that individual. (Of course, until 2 are married the kids, family, etc can come first, but after marriage the spouse relationship is 2nd only to a relationship with Christ) My ex-wife valued her job over our marriage and even after the affair, had she left the job and instilled NC, I would have stayed and tried my hardest to make it work. But, she chose the job over her marriage (It is so sad that someone can actually do that....)

Honestly speaking, I really never intended this relationship and I believe in my heart this is where I am supposed to be (this comes from a number of happenings which lead me to this conclusion). If my purpose is only to help heal her from before, I am OK with that. If her purpose is to help me feel love again for the first time in years, that is OK too. Sooner or later, God will make it clear to me whether her purpose is long term or she is just a needed person in my life right now.

I wish I had it in me to be a "dog" and just be a whore for the rest of my life with no feelings. LOL. Oh well, not me, so I gotta deal with who and what I am.

BTW, I do want to thank all of you for your replies. It is very nice to structure my own thoughts and gain knowledge from the excellent input from others.

Thank you sincerely
-Grindnfool

Honestly speaking, I really never intended this relationship and I believe in my heart this is where I am supposed to be (this comes from a number of happenings which lead me to this conclusion). If my purpose is only to help heal her from before, I am OK with that. If her purpose is to help me feel love again for the first time in years, that is OK too. Sooner or later, God will make it clear to me whether her purpose is long term or she is just a needed person in my life right now.

boy, i can relate to that statement. and,yes God will certainly let you know... He may be letting you know right now by her actions. listen carefully. i did not listen in the beginning because i didn't want it to be so, so got used a sledgehammer on me to bring it home! it would have been less painful had i headed in the beginning....

mlhb

G, If your girlfriend was abused by her husband, and only was healthy enough to get him out of the house a year ago, I really question her ability to be a full emotional partner in a romantic relationship right now.

Some recent studies have found that abuse of adults creates the same problems that children who have survived abuse experience. In other words, problems with trusting, problems with boundaries, problems with honesty and handling conflict, issues with self-worth, neediness, and others. Not everyone experiences all of these issues, of course. However, even a couple can create big problems in a romantic relationship.

I'm not sure this is something you can talk to her about with an expectation she can make anything but minor changes right now. There is also a possiblity that this relationship is based more on the circumstances than on serious long-term compatibility.

Consider that you started the friendship before your divorce was finalized. She still hadn't been able to separate completely from her husband. (NOTE: I'm not suggested that she wanted to be married to him, just that she was still emotionally engaged through fear and guilt.) If I read this right, neither of you had much time to be really alone and grow comfortable with being being alone.

I really question her ability to be a full emotional partner in a romantic relationship right now.
I do too. It seems there are two choices, leave or stay and understand she has issues which she needs to work through. I chose the latter along time ago, but I am coming to the point where her issues have started to negatively impact my own self worth. Now, I am confused and do not know how to handle it without negatively impacting the relationship.

I'm not sure this is something you can talk to her about with an expectation she can make anything but minor changes right now.
This is really all I am asking for.
One sticking point seems to be the ability to verbalize we are in any kind of relationship. Sounds wierd, I know, but it bothers her to admit that and make herself vulnerable to me. Myself, I am stuck on that issue because her not acknowedging it violates one thing I vowed not to repeat which is get involved to someone who did not care about me. (**Note** - I believe she does really care, want to be there, etc. but there is something about verbally reinforcing that which is comforting to me) I am a baby, I guess?

The other sticking point is closure with her ex. He moved closer to her house and has her entirely freaked out. I can certainly understand yet she will not address the fact I am coming over and there could be a potential confrontation. I do not want this for her kids or mine (I will isolate my kids until she does something here). This is kinda catch 22, stop going over there and be controlled by him or go over there and risk confrontation/potentail damage to her and the kids.

Consider that you started the friendship before your divorce was finalized. She still hadn't been able to separate completely from her husband.
I am sorry but I do not follow you here. I have been friends with her since before she or I was divorced. But only friends. I did not approach her about dating until near the end of my divorce.

I do not know or understand how she could have lived with him, divorced, for 2 years in the same house? This blows my mind

"run forrest, run!"

mlhb

My point about when you started to date was that you both were recovering from prior relationships. In my experience, and from what I've observed in others, the recovery often has two components: time alone and begining new relationships.

Sometimes, people are in so much pain, they turn to others, but it's not really healthy because they haven't healed. Also, if the relationship was bad, sometimes, we reach out for someone who can fill one or two particular needs, and as we grow stronger these needs go away. And sometimes, so does the relationship.

FWIW, I don't think you're over-reacting to her refusal to call your relationship, a relationship. It's her way of keeping you at arms' length and all that entails.

Does she even view your relationship as a "relationship"? Or does she consider it more of a friendship with romantic overtones that she'll leave behind in time? She may not even know the answer.

However, if I were in your shoes, I seriously consider ending the relationship now rather than getting more involved.