Several posters have brought up the addiction analogy. You indicated you were worried because alcoholics always crave alcohol. That's not exactly true. I'll tell you about addiction.

I am a smoker. I have smoked for more than 20 years. I smoke a pack a day. I'm also well educated and know the health effects of smoking. I'm basically killing myself one puff at a time. I have quit smoking many times using a variety of techniques, the patch, the gum, Zyban, hypnosis, cold turkey etc. There are pros and cons of each but if you apply them correctly, they all work. And they did. It wasn't easy and withdrawal was very, every painful. I was successful, many times. Successful to the point that I didn't even think about smoking.

So why am I still smoking today? Because at some point after I quit, I would go somewhere or do something that I had once associated with smoking and think "I can handle it - it's just one cigarette." Yeah right. There's never just one.

The affair is just like my smoking addiction. You know it's wrong. You know it will destroy your life. You know you need to end it. Ending it will involve withdrawal which is painful. I can't tell you how much I wished for a cigarette during those times. I would actually walk past places people were smoking just for a whiff of that delicious second hand smoke. (can you see how rediculous that sounds?) But it gradually subsided - very gradually. There is no "aha" moment when you are suddenly not addicted any more. And there's no rushing it either.

But even after withdrawal has ended, you will remain prone for the rest of your life to that addiction. I once went almost 2 years without a cigarette and then one Christmas party where there were smokers was all it took. I bought a pack the next day. This is how important NO CONTACT is. This no contact is for life. This is also how important it is to affair-proof your marriage against potential future OWs. You are prone. You say now that you would never want to go through this pain again. I tell you Bu11$1++!! I can't tell you how many times I said I'd quit for good because the process of quitting is so brutal I never want to go through it again.

Try this - every thought you have of OW, think of it as having a nicotine fit. Imagine yourself smoking a dirty, stinky home-rolled cigarette with no filter and stale tobacco. This is what you are essentially quitting - a vile, disgusting, self-destructive addition. Good luck. I'm going out for a smoke now.

Awesome post, Tabby1!

Yes, Tabby, great post. Excellent analogy. Best one I've heard so far about addictions to OW/OM.

In fact, all the posts on this thread from others I believe are great.

You're in good hands here.

Tabby that was brilliant

esm....this is a great thread with real support. I hope you're listening.

This is my second attempt to respond to your sitch. My first one I ditched because it was way too harsh. I thought I'd try to tone it down a bit.


That's the main reason? Not uh...to help your BW through the worst time in her life? The worst pain that she will probably ever feel and which you caused?


Lucky you.



I thought you were happy?



Do you see how foggy this is?


You are going to have to reconnect with your wife before you can feel real happiness again.What you had during the A was a fantasy.


Uh yeah and apparently this is the way you've been. You've been concerned with only YOUR happiness.


Yes there is a theme...your happiness. You want it and are willing to do what it takes to get it.

My concern is...what if OW called today and said that she wanted you back...would you go? Sounds like she dumped you and that was the only way that your A would have ended. You didn't care how many years you stole from your wife. You were going to remain "happy" as long as you could.

Selfishness is not the word.


Please send your wife here, we might be able to help her.

First, let me say thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond. I'm not great at knowing how to quote things on here, so I'm going to have to repond kind of individually. But, I wanted to respond to those that I perceived as "critical" kind of in a general way,and I hope this doesn't come across as defensive.

I get that I'm self-centered. Its like what was said earlier, by virtue of the fact that I became involved in the affair I was the definition of self-centered. I'm not saying it makes it right. I'm saying I agree with you. That's part of what I know I have to work on. But, I can only relate to you my feelings, and I'm trying to do that as honestly as possible. I wish more than anything else that some of these feelings weren't in my head now or at any time in the last 2 1/2 years. I'm just telling you what I honestly feel in hopes that you can help (which many of you have), and I recognize that it will cause some of you to judge me pretty harshly. But, it won't do me any good to tell you that I'm doing better than I really am.

Its interesting that several have said that I sound very immature. I don't disagree with that either, at all. Just to provide some context, before I met my wife, my longest relationship was about 6 months. Then, my wife and I were together for 6 years before I began the affair. I know this sounds like the stereotype, but I just felt like we had fallen out of love with one another. It was the first time I had ever advanced past the "in love" stage in a relationship and it was all new to me. I'm not saying that in any way it makes what I've done anything other than terrible, I'm just saying that it was absolutely immature. So, yes, I know now after educating myself that by definition being "in love" is an immature feeling. Participating in an affair, falling "in love" with another woman, etc. is immature. That doesn't mean that I'm going to all of a sudden mature just because someone tells me to. Its a process that I have to go through, and that's why I am here. I'm looking for help doing that.

The fortunate part for me is that I could recognize that immaturity even during the affair. While I was in the affair, I kept telling myself that I wanted to be with the other woman now, but I knew five years from now that I would want to be with my wife again. I felt like I was being entirely immature, and when I was ready for a mature relationship I knew I would want that to be with my wife. That's one of the main reasons I didn't leave. I knew that I needed to grow up. I just didn't want to. To be honest, I want to now. I just want to know that its as satisfying. Everything that I've read from those that have been through it says that it is. I just haven't gotten to experience that yet. I want to experience that level of happiness that it sounds like many of you have found on the other side of an affair. I hope that makes sense.

Finally, I know I'm lucky. I don't know why I've gotten so lucky to still have a chance at "maturing" and still have the opportunity to be with my wife. I don't deserve to be that fortunate. I'm very lucky.

esm,

I you want to use the quote function, it's gotten much easier in the new format. On the top of the reply window, there are a row of buttons. One of them looks like this: ".
Push that button and this will appear: [quote][/quote]. The first part opens the quote, the second part with the slash...closes the quote. So once you see the brackets, you will copy and paste what you want to quote in between those two bracketed symbols (it helps to have another window open so you can find all the type you want to use without using the back button). Right here: [ quote ] * [ /quote].

Another easy way is to copy paste anthing you want to quote....and just manually type those same symbols. This in front: [ quote ] (without the space), and this in back: [ /quote ] (no space).

Resonance,

For me the affair wasn't anything at all about being secret. The other woman and I were in public constantly. It was a true double life. I didn't get any kind of high off of that. One side of the city, I would go out with the other woman and see an entirely different group of "friends." The other side of the city, I would take my wife out on dates on the weekend. If anything, it was about the newness of the affair, which I know was bound to wear off eventually. But, I couldn't break out of the affair because the newness never did. I can blame the other woman for some of the tactics that she used to keep me in the affair, but thats just an excuse. I wanted to go back, whether it was because I missed her, wanted the excitement, or just simply got horny. It was my own weakness that allowed her tactics to work. I know the newness would have worn off eventually (even though she told me it wouldn't), and then I would have been right back to where I was when I began the affair. But, that's not exactly the kind of logical thinking that I was able to apply while I was still involved. If I had a dime for every time the other woman told me "This is what real love feels like." And based on my immaturity, I believed her.

You're right about the other woman not being able to do all of the things I would have wanted her to do by herself. When we would go away for weekends, it always ended in a fight. The reality was NEVER as great as I had fantasized it would be leading up to it. I would always run home to my wife as quickly as possible and be so happy that she was there. Even though the "fantasy" wasn't as great as I had pictured it being, much like I'm sure my life with her wouldn't have been as great as I've fantasized about, it was still better than my reality in my mind. Having two very desirable women love you and adore you is a very intoxicating feeling. I don't want that to be the case anymore. I want my reality to be with my wife and to be better than any fantasy.

I'm slowly rebuilding my support system. They're doing a very good job of letting me know how lucky I am right now. My real friends aren't good at beating around the bush.

I know I need to start acting like a loving and devoted husband. We spend more time together at home now than we have in years. I would love to take her out on dates, but I feel somewhat trapped in our home. I don't want to take the chance that we could bump into the other woman or anyone that knows about it. I just feel trapped. We're looking at moving to another city.

I would give any amount of money for that to be right. I just wish it would be that way tomorrow when I wake up. I know I have a lot of work to do before I can get there, but I can't tell you how much I hope you're right. I hear all of you say it, and I read about it, so I know that you're right. But, until I actually experience it for myself, I still deal with it.

The logic that faithful follower used is the same logic I used in deciding to stay in the marriage. But, I still couldn't break away from the affair. It was nothing other than selfish and weak. Like I said, I never doubted who was the better person. I just couldn't get away from the "high."

I knew that there was never going to be a happy ending with the other woman. I knew that my life wasn't going to be happy as long as I was leading a double life. I really just didn't know which road I wanted to go down. I felt like it was a choice between safe and secure vs. fun and chaotic. That seems so easy on its face. But, in the moment, its not so easy.

star*fish,

That was great. Thank you. As I've been going through this withdrawal process, I had created an index card that I carry with me to look at when I would start feeling bad or emotional. It just has some thoughts, ideas, etc. that I have picked up along the way. Your post pretty much just filled up the back side of that card.

Thank you so much.

I really think moving away would be the best thing in the world that we can do. I have so many memories here that cause me to think about the other woman, even when I don't want to. Really, my home (which she has never been in) is my only safe refuge. I think if my wife and I can get to a new place, and start creating our own new memories, things will really be headed in the right direction.

Tabby,

That's a great analogy. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I've never smoked, so I can't really relate to the last paragraph. But, it does help me to understand better what I had read in HNHN.

I've spoken with my individual counselor about how I just can't get the idea out of my head that this particular addiction was bad. Smoking or drugs comes with the obvious health problems that make them so obviously bad. Its not so obvious when you are dealing with the concept of love. It was bad because of the hurt that I caused my wife, and to a lesser extent the other woman and myself. But, simply being "in love" with someone is not in and of itself bad. So, that is something that I have definitely been struggling with.

Your analogy gives me an idea of how the addiction may not necessarily be something that I want, but merely am prone to in the future. That really does help.

Thank you.

What I want for you and especially your W is to avoid what my H put me through after his first A. He pined away for the OW for nearly two years and was angry with me for "interfering" with his fun. I exposed to OWH which is how the A ended. His immaturity that grew during that A continued and he was nearly as foggy as if he was in contact for nearly 2 years! It took the 2nd A (blech) to pull him out of that. I don't want you to follow that path which is why we are trying so hard to get you to see that this was not "love" and what you and OW did was ugly. You are going to have to work at pulling yourself out of that fog AND you are going to have to work at falling in love with your wife. REAL love is an action word, not a flutter in your stomach feeling.

MicheleG,

I can take the criticism, but there are a couple of things that I think are important.


I'm sorry, but that is not the reason I want to stay married. I don't want to stay married because I feel like it is a punishment for what I have done. I want to stay married and make my marriage work so that my wife has the kind of marriage that she deserves to have. She hasn't had that for 2 1/2 years, and if I can't give it to her then she deserves the opportunity to find it with someone else. So, if I'm not happy, and I'm not providing her happiness, then both of us would be staying in a marriage that is less than either of us deserve to be in.


I didn't say we were perfect. I said we were happy. We had problems, but they were relatively minor. It was my own terrible decision that caused this enormous trauma. If it weren't for that, we'd still be very happy. Just like everyone else, we would have had things that we needed to work on every day, but we were happy. I took that from us. Its now my goal to bring that back.


You're right. That is the only way that it would have ended. I tried to get away from her and couldn't break the addiction on my own terms. I don't know if that makes selfish, weak, or both, and possibly many more things. But, to directly answer your question, I wouldn't go back if she called me today simply because I can't put my wife through any more trauma. That might not be the best answer or the answer you want to hear, but it is the honest answer as I type this message. I want to get to a point to where if the other woman called, I wouldn't even find anything about her call, her voice, or anything even remotely appealing. I'm not there yet. I want to get there, but I'm not, and that's just me being honest.

esm,


Try hard to look at it this way. Doing the right thing is satisfying, treating the person to whom you took vows to love, cherish, honor and be faithful to is satisfying, not feeling shame for your actions is satisfying.

I'll grant that satisfacation gleened from honor isn't always as fun as just doing what you feel like. Being mature involves many responsibilities and acceptance of and fulfillment of those responsibilities often involves doing what needs to be done and what is right rather than doing what is easiest or what is the most fun.

You admit that you felt that five years from now, you would probably want to be back with your wife. Try thinking about everything that has happended and how your wife might feel about it, about how much it just might hurt.

Imagine that you left your wife and married the OW and then OW decided that life with you wasn't fun any more and that she didn't want to be mature, so she moved on and found someone else, someone whose company she preferred to yours.

You have already indicated that OW comes from a family that condones infidelity. Why would you expect the OW to be faithful to you?

You have gotten some really great advice here and I will second the suggestion that you consider moving far away from the OW and starting out fresh with your wife. I think that once the fog clears for you and you are no longer obsessing about how great the OW was, you may once again see all of the qualities within your wife that made you fall in love with her all those years ago.

The only way you are going to find out whether or not it is satisfying or not is to successfully recover your marriage.

I caution you that recovery is not for the faint-hearted and it will be very challenging for not only your wife but for you as well.

IMHO, only couples who are both completely committed to recovering their marriage following an affair are actually successful.

However, I can state from personal experience that a recovered marriage is usually far more satisfying and happy than the pre-affair marriage was so the effort is well worth the outcome.

Who

Just so you know (so you don't think you are any different), the "newness" of the affair would have worn off once you started experiencing the consequences of the affair (i.e. get fired for having an affair with your coworker, lose your wife, move out of your house and lose half your income, having family and friends berate you for what you are doing, etc). Generally, the affairs that are better insulated from those consequences (you already were isolated from family and friends, you don't get in trouble at work, your betrayed spouse doesn't force you to make any decisions, etc.) last longer for that reason. Trust me, if you would have divorced your wife and been with OW, you two wouldn't have lasted long at all. That is a promise. Don't fool yourself into thinking that you may have given up a happy life to stay with your wife. Dr. Harley has statistics that say 95% of affairs never make it to marriage, and of those that do, 4 out of 5 fail within five years. Do the math. 99% of affairs end. You had a 99% chance of NOT being happy with OW.

Trust me and other BS's on this board - it's just as bad. Affairs aren't about love, they are about deception. You have even decieved yourself by thinking that it was about love. It wasn't. Affairs destroy lives. Your life. Your BW. Your children if you have them. It also greatly affects your extended families, your friends - everyone you know. Again, imagine the worst type of addict you know - that is who you are and OW is your drug. When you can see her in this light, you'll be able to start forgetting her.

Is it common to have regressions during this withdrawal period? Its been right at the 3 months now. I was miserable for the first part of January. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't work. Then for about 6 weeks, things gradually got better. I was afraid I would get really sad for her on Valentine's Day, but I handled that fine. Her birthday was in late February, and I did not contact her. I knew by doing that that I would never hear from her again, and I was able to get through that. I didn't get upset or emotional, and actually took some level of satisfaction in being able to do that.

For whatever reason, the last half of March has been very difficult. I've thought about her a lot more. When I would think about her in the past, I would almost always just think about our physical affair, but I wouldn't really miss just hanging out with her. (As I've stated, that part of the affair was incredibly intense.) But, for the last few weeks, I've really missed just spending time with her and hanging out with her. That's what led me to here. I just felt like I was getting somewhere, and now I feel like I've backtracked. In some ways, I feel like its even worse, because I'm missing her emotionally moreso than physically. At least when I was missing her physically, it allowed me to tell myself that my longing for her was superficial. So, in some ways this feels worse.

However, for about a week, I couldn't eat normally, or work normally, or sleep normally again. I'm gradually getting out of that, and I tell myself now that it will get better because it got better in January when I went through this.

My wife knows why I'm depressed and it obviously disgusts her. I do everything I can to reassure her that I don't have any doubts, and I don't. But, I would really, really love to never have this other woman ever pop into my head again. It just seems like after 3 months I should be better. Am I just really messed up or is this somewhat common? I feel like I've taken 3 steps forward and 2 steps back in the last few weeks, and I want more than anything to take 100 steps forward and get all of this behind me so that I can start putting my marriage back together. I just don't know how much more my wife can take.

es,

You've gotten great advice already...I want to address your choice of thoughts.

Each time you think of OW, you are choosing to think of her. If you are serious about not thinking of her, as you stated, then you can get there.

First, listen to your thoughts...if you catch yourself thinking of her, seeing an image of her in the first five seconds and firmly state to yourself, "That's not what I want" and immediately envision your BW's face...sound of her voice...from a joyful, connected conversation or moment...then your brain will stop handing you thoughts of OW.

Our brains cannot tell reality from fantasy. They really can't. Your brain has been trained...by you...your previous focus...to hand you thoughts of OW. You can retrain it.

I haven't read your thread...I'm not up to it right now...that pain I think I would feel...just this page alone hurt. Still, you say you were happy with BW pre-A. Have you gotten to your actual whys of choosing to trash what you cherished? Could part of it be that you stopped cherishing your marriage?

A part of cherishing is where you focus...just like the exercise above...where your thoughts dwell, there is your treasure...trains your brain what to treasure. Within your control, your power.

If your dear desire is to recover your marriage, to heal your BW's trauma, to live free and with integrity, prizing your marriage, then direct your thoughts to dwell on her, to cherish.

You can fall head over heels in love with your BW. She's real. She really knows you...and she has chosen to attempt to recover the marriage...she's gold. Not tin. Not a distraction, a false stimulus...more reward is within your commitment to her than I believe you can dream of...not because she deserves it...because you want to be the man you once were...and see that man again reflected in her loyal eyes.

That can never be with OW...I believe you understand that. Like it was with your BW at first, OW reflected only the best parts of you...she didn't know all of you...that takes time, commitment and reality.

Remind yourself...choose not to think or dwell...and when you feel the urge, consider why...if you're feeling stress from guilt or shame, work or obligations...old stuff...letting people down...trace your own stuff...and you'll own it. Know it. Then share it with BW. Tell her you're no longer allowing the drug in your mind...that you refocus on her...her face, her love and care.

You can do this...you're not alone.

LA

I have not had an affair, but as a nicotine addict I can tell you that withdrawal symptoms do come and go. There are lots of triggers as well. For me as a smoker, alcohol is a big trigger. Once when I quit, I convinced myself that I could smoke when I drank and that would be ok. Within a month I was stopping by the pub every single day after work. If I didn't start smoking for real, I was going to wind up an alcoholic as well. Caffiene is another trigger but I've managed to beat that one before. One of the things that makes smoking hard to quit is it is often accompanied by other addictions which have to be quit at the same time.

You will have triggers as well. Some you probably already know but some will surprise you along the way. This is one good reason to move to another city. You may have to avoid the triggers as well, at least for a while, and introduce them back one at a time. And try what LovingAnyway suggested to refocus your mind. Your BW deserves it.

LA is absolutely correct in saying that you can have some control over your own thoughts.

For a long time following my FWH's A, even though my FWH was thrilled to be rid of the OW and almost never gave her a thought, I was constantly thinking about her.

I had to make a conscious effort to not obsess about her. Over time not only could I limit the duration of time I spent wondering how she was feeling, and hoping that she was hurting as much or more than I was. Eventually, I was able to stop thinking about her.

You too can train yourself to not spend so much time thinking about the OW. As you reconnect with your BW by following the MB principles, I think you will find that the memories of OW and the time you spent with her will start to fade.

Who