I'm sorry. But you know more than ever that you have to leave.

Thank you... Yes I know that... His life is full of lies...He decided to throw everything away for a divorced woman with three kids who are not his...All I have to say is that God sees everything, and ultimately that who he has to explain himself to.

lilag...

to deconstruct and rebuild sometimes you have to step away and look at things differently...

I see a lot in your posting about you being a strong independant person....

so then I wonder and question if these characteristics serve you well in marriage...where the goal is an equal loving partnership...

it sounds to me like you have a marriage with two adults engaging in very independant behaviors...

he goes out and away from you and the family a lot..

you take on many roles in the home...

the questions in rebuilding...come to things like..

how do you both change to create a partnership marriage...

what are your husbands needs...
are you so independant that he feels uneeded, unloved, un-appreciated etc....

a huge goal in plan a...which is where you should be...is re-aligning your thought and communication process...

WS speak a very confusing language...
they are far removed from speaking truthfuly to the point to that some lying is a habit more than even a thought process..their brains are wired to lie...since they did so much to engage and maintain an affair...

BS have a great burdon of speaking carefully and truthfully and really watching what they are saying...in order to help the WS learn how to talk logically again as well...

here's where your communication is confusing to your husband...and probably makes him feel like it is futile to speak with you.

watch this communication you have with him as you posted it..

On various occasions I have asked him what lead him to the affair,

that's a great question....
so the question for you is why are asking him this....

because when he gives you an anwer....(and yes you are correct it doesn't excuse an affair...but remember here...YOU asked him what lead him to an affair...

he says...


and the answer he has is that I haven't been affectionate to him and that everytime something needs to be done I always take my time to do it...

so there's your chance to address that...
to enquire deeply in to why he feels that way..
not defending yourself
but just listening...
teaching him that it is safe to talk to you...

that's the goal here to open up communication..

not shut it down
not shut him off...

this is the babble testing the waters fluff that has to be gone through to get to the real issues...

issues in which both take ownership...

are you unaffectionate...
or
are his expectation of affaction over the top...
these are building issues...

you asked...
he answered...
and then you shut the door on him and communication by telling him....

nothing he can tell me I've done wrong will ever excuse what he did...


the question you asked him originally wasn't what was his excuse...

BUT

what were his perceived reasons for the affair...

and when he shared with you...
slam...

do you see what I am saying....

what are the reasons you haven't gotten married yet...
who's holding out on that...

do you think not being married plays a role in fidelity...

can you give your husband any validation and any places that are safe for him to begin to really open up and really really communicate....

I don't see why you are planning to leave right now...
it seems to me you two haven't worked together on a relationship for a long time...if ever...

always hope...

ARK

ARK,

Thank You for your advise, it's always so helpfull. I come from a family of 8 where I was kind of forced to grow up quickly. I've been working since I can remember. That is why I think I became independent and in the beginning of the relationship it wouldn't bother me for him to go out and do his thing on his own.
I take on all the roles @ home because I always wanted to show him that I can keep up with that. I thought that would make him happy. My way of showing love to him was by catering to him. He's the kind of man that expects a hot meal when he comes home. I gladly cook for him. It becomes a problem when he makes it seem like it's my resposibility to make sure he is fed. There are times when I'm not home and he will wait until I get home to feed him. I know he expressed the fact that I wasn't affectionate and since he hold me I've changed that. The problem is that I don't get a response to my affection. And rejection is a horrible feeling.The reason why I asked him about what lead him to the affair is because I wanted to change what was pushing him away from me.He did respond and I've worked on my affection since. It's only hard to do it and see no improvement or reaction from him. When we talk I do all the talking because he never says anything. Maybe I should just step away and let him figure things on his own. I really don't know what always held him off from marrying me.. I ask myself that too.. I knew that he was really exposed to having an affair because of his ways.. Always out, living the independent life that he always did. And I addressed this to him.. He just didn't stop or care. I feel maybe I was always the one to try to make it happen and I focused on EN that maybe were not his priorities and I thought they were.. and vise versa... Maybe it's too late in the relationship to save it... As much as I love him finding new information about the A just makes me wonder if I;m doing the right thing by staying.

I'll leave it in gods hands.. It's all I can do..

I'll leave it in gods hands.. It's all I can do..


there is plenty you can do....

contact the OW and ask her if she is pregnant and claiming your live in to be the father.

you start there....

I take on all the roles @ home because I always wanted to show him that I can keep up with that.

so maybe it's time to stop those roles..but not by bolaming him for making you feel you had to do this to make him happy...but maybe you stop by opening up discussion how that perhaps you taking on all those roles...actually pushed him out and away..instead of drawing you two together to work together on things.....and that you what you desire in a mate is a partnership and not independant living and tasks so much...

what about that...
what would he say...

what do you say,,,,

also can you realistically live your life with a non communicative man...

me I couldn't...nor could I live with a man that never ever shuts up...I like the middle area in that arena..,.

so now you two talk about your need for communication and whether he is willing to learn to talk and open up more,,..or if it is a deal breaker...

will he go to counseling with you .....

what does he say about that....

have you asked...

ask him why he hasnt' married you..
ask him...

ask yourself why you havent married him.....

lilag....only you can decide when enough is enough,,,,but always believe that one should try before walking away..

ark

You're an angel,

I;ve thought about contacting this other woman, I just wasn't shure it was a good idea. I wanted him to tell me the truth..

The thing is ARK that I've expressed all this to him the lack of communication from both parts, the lack of quality time together as a couple or even as a family. We've talked about how I take on all the house roles and he excuses himself by saying that he works hard, leading me to understand that I have to do this to reward him for all his hard work.

I would love nothing more than to do things together and when we talk about it he seems to understand, but he falls right back to where he was.

Because he doesn't communicate with me it is the reason why I'm ready to drop everything and just let it go.

When I asked him if he was willing to go to counseling. He said he didn't need a shrink.

I asked him last night why he hasn't marry me and he doesn;t have an answer.

Thank you ARK

so lilag..

what do you think..

does he want this relationship enough to work on it....
or not

you may need to go plan B....

ark

ark, that's what I was saying. She describes how she has tried to move out not once, but several times. He has incredible Independent Behavior and has apparently no interest in changing that, won't work on the affair issue, and refuses to take any blame! He obviously is very good at talking to her, to 'convince' her that it was all just a misunderstanding, or that he's better now, or he'll change...whatever he keeps telling her every time it all comes to a head, and he obviously has no intention of ever changing ('I don't need a shrink') and it seems to me like he just considers this something that guys do - put up with their partner's female crap and play the game to keep her in line so he gets what he wants.

IMO, the only way she can save this relationship is to make him earn it back.

Ark & catperson,

At this point, I know what I need to do. I have to go to plan B.
It has been apparent to me for a long time that he has no intentions on changing. He changes only when he feels threatened that I'm going to walk. Then that's when he tries to be a family man. Then goes back to the same thing. It's not that he convinces me to stay, it was always my belief that as long as I had the energy to work the relationship and learn from our experiences that things would be ok. That we would grow old together etc etc. I never wanted to give up. Now it's gone way farther than I thought it ever would. I wish you guys would know this guy.. He's not a person with a bad heart. He just makes alot of bad choices, I always wanted to help him through that. He now holds a good position because I always pushed him to do well. In a way I think he sees this like a normal lifestyle because the same exact situation happened to his mother and father. Now that he's older his father has another woman for about 24yrs but spends everyweeked and part of weekdays with his mom.

I now know that I can count on my family and that I won't go through this alone...

Thank you for allyour support it always makes me feel better and sort out my mind a little.

Hi guys,

It's been a while since I have posted but I need some advise... I've been following plan A, and for the most part it seems like I've been the only one trying. There are days when he's lovable and spends time with me and the kids, and we've been alot more intimate than ever before. But then there's those days when He shows he doesn't care, comes home late @ night and our arguments are worse than before. I know he still has contact with the OW. Two days ago we had a huge argument because I questioned what's happening to all the money, he didn't have enough for the mortgage. He got really upset and left the house. Told me he was going to work to make money... Well Yesterday I didn't go to work. He left a check on top of the table to show that he was really working, however when I was doing laundry I found a receipt of a restaurant where he had dinner the previous night. Well this restaurant is right by where the OW lives. I left the receipt on top of the table so he can know I saw it.. He also left his phone @ home because it wasn't charged. Well I charged it. The OW called 4 times until I finally picked up.. She was pretty nasty to me in the beginning. I told her to look for him somewhere Else because he wasn't there. Hung up, well she called back and said she wanted to talk.

She apologized to me for putting us through this and said that she's been in my shoes before. She said she didn't mean it to happen this way. Long story short she gave me details about the A and told me what he says to her about me... I kept my cool the whole time, but made it very clear that I have something to fight for to keep our family together. She just kept saying that they love each other... When he got home he was trying to act smart about the receipt.. told me I should frame it... I told him I was moving out.. He laughed and said to keep having my family give me advise.. When I told him I talked to the OW he didn't believe me. He said Why are you calling her? I said no honey she called here.. He was shocked... I told him everything she said to me and that he was with her the nigh before.He had nothing to say..
He then started telling me that the reason he looked elsewhere was because I wasn't meeting his needs. I told him we've had this talk before and that I've chnaged my ways but he just doesn't see the changes because he's not around... He swore to me he never slept with her and that he wants to work things out with me, but he doesn't know if that can be possible because he knows what he did was wrong and he just doesn't want it to hunt him later on... We didn't come to a conclusion about anything because my daughte came home and we didn't want to dscuss in front of her. We are going to sit and talk today. I just need some advise, what should I do????

Meaning, he doesn't want you holding the affair over his head for the rest of his life.

Hon, I know you love him and want to keep him, but he seems to have a very independent spirit. So to get him back, wean him off the affair, go through the withdrawal, make him make concessions and humble himself...that's a really long road ahead of you. I just want to make sure you realize that he will continue to do only enough to get you to 'stop nagging' him. In his mind, he seems to have more right to his wants than you do.

So...you have to prove to him that you value yourself as much as he values himself. In other words, stay mad! I have told that to a couple other people here, and life gets in the way, emotions...and they come back and say that he's back to Independent Behavior and lying and sneaking to see OW and basically doing whatever the h&ll he wants to, because he knows she won't demand repayment. I say demand, and I've gotten trashed for saying it, as it's not MB politically correct, but from a psychological standpoint, he's a man, you're a woman, and men instinctively grab what they want unless a stronger person keeps them in line. You have to be the stronger person - just for this while until he sees what he's done; you have to stay mad, or he'll think he's entitled and you'll never leave him.

I don't have specific advice for the talk, the experts here can help you with that, I just want to make sure you keep your half of the marriage up at the same level as his half.

Good luck.

Hello to everyone,

I haven't posted for a while now, but I know this is a good place to go to when you need some good advice. Well, since I posted last, things only got worse. I tried plan A until one week ago. I couldn't bear with him treating me like dirt so I decided to leave the house. We didn't have any contact for four days. He then called to ask for the kids. We spoke for about two hrs and he asked me to come home that he wants to work things out. So I didn't go back. But three days after that I had to stay to work overtime @ work so he was watching the kids. I got off work late and when I went to his house to pick them he asked me to stay because it was late already for me to drive.

About and hr later someone was knocking in the front door and it was the other woman. He was very upset because she was there. She didn't feel like she was disrespecting because she tought I didn't live there anymore. So I confronted both of them.
She said he told her he didn't miss me and he wanted to be with her..Al this time he's telling me the opposite. She mentioned she was pregnant and lost the baby because of stress. He says he doesn't know that (she could be lying) he always told me he never slept with her.

To make a long story short, he told her that he wanted to work things out with me. She left and sayd "GOOD LUCK"

The problem is that now I'm not sure I want to stay with him.. I love him to death but I don't know if I can trust him.

PLEASE HELP! I need some Advice.

I would let hubby know that needs to end the affair and write a no contact letter to the OW, which you approve and send. It should say the affair was a mistake and he loves you and wants to stay married.

Then he needs to be an open book and let you have his passwords, phone records, and account for his time.

You might also mention that he dodged a big bullet - 18 years of child support, and he'd best stick to no contact.

Hello Believer,

Before I saw the woman, I had told him that the only way I would go back home is if he would contact her in front of me or if he wrote a letter to her to end everythig. He didn't want to. On Tues when she showed up, he probably felt trapped and had no choice but to say that he wanted to work things out with me. The thing is that I don't know if I can trust that it is really over. This other woman looked really in love and has put up with him being with someone else for over a year. I have asked him to give me time and he says he can't. He tells me that how can he prove me that he's gonna change if I'm not there for him to show me. I just know that I don't ever want to go through this ever again.

I know that he's having some financial issues, can't keep up with the payments, now he has to do everything I use to do for him, and I kinda feel like he wants me back for those reasons and because he misses his kids not me.

Stick with Plan B until all your demands are met; if not, do without him.

Catperson,

That is exactly what I want to do. The few days that I was without him I was ok, I missed him less than I thought I would. Besides I think now he is really questioning what he's done becuase I have lost alot of weight and I'm doing well. I don't cry anymore and I do things to keep me busy.. I have gotten so much attention from other men that I don't get from him, He's heard it himself. How can I stick to a good plan B.

It really doesn't matter why the two of you get back together. But you need to be together to work on the marriage.

Affairs never last. I think you would do well to give this a try.