I apologize for the length, but I really need as much help as I can get...

Background:

I am 29 years old, married for nearly 5 years. Father of one (fantastic 11-month-old boy). My relationship with my wife is my first long-term romantic relationship

48% of me wants a divorce for many reasons including the institution itself, her idiosyncrasies (know-it-allism and always rightism), her family's idiosyncrasies (the same as her), and overall feeling of no control of my life and no space for myself... I feel like most of the time she runs my life and when I am in control of something... I have to run my decisions by her for approval. Whenever I assert myself, I am met with resistance and a fight. I'm tired of fighting. (I'm talking about the little stuff that keeps coming up day-after-day for the past 5 years... what time we go to bed, her using her reading lamp when I'm trying to sleep, what our plans are each day, etc.)

I am a classic introvert, she is a classic extrovert. I want to be alone at the end of a long day; she wants to be with me (we’re both teachers… different schools). She insists that we eat every meal together, go to bed at the same time, wake up at the same time or else she feels "lonely". Whenever I suggest or insist that we divert from her preferences I'm met with either "puppy dog eyes", a guilt trip, or resentment. When I try get alone time, she finds a reason to become a part of it. She'll even seek me out in the bathroom and try to engage me in a conversation through the closed door. These things, as isolated incidents, are quite trivial. However, when added up, they have gotten pretty nerve-racking. I've talked to her about my feelings on several occasions, but she doesn't get it.

48% of me wants to stay with her because I still love her, my son's benefit, and the avoidance of future issues such as her remarrying and another man becoming a father figure to my son.

4% of me wants to try some sort of unorthodox ways of staying together... living in separate houses or at least rooms but staying married. However, she is very conservative and “gets sick to her stomach” (in her words) at the mere mention of such things.

When we decided to have a child, we were in good shape. That was nearly two years ago and things have changed.

I don't know. I'm still very much in love with her and I believe that counseling is the way to go. We'll see what happens.

2 years ago, we discussed the topic of divorce for the first time very seriously. She became extremely emotional and heartbroken and told me she'd do anything to stay together. I became overcome as well and the topic hasn't come up again until now.

Now she states that she still loves me, but doesn't like me most of the time. The feeling is mutual. She told me that she considers divorce, but wants another child and it to be from the same father. She said that she doesn't want to be alone and that she doesn't want to go through the time and energy of learning how to live with a new husband and his sh*t. When I suggest counseling, she says she'll do it because I want it, but she is not particularly interested in it. Her take is that if we don't talk about divorce as an option, then it won't be one.

I just want to do the right thing for her, me, and most of all, my son... even if it is not easy. I just don't know what the "right thing" is. Any insight would be appreciated.

I think the two of you should read His Needs, Her Needs and fill out the Emotional Needs Questionnaire

Also, is this her first marriage?

Yes it is, but she has been in one long-term relationship after another since she was 14 (except for 9 month hiatus in her senior year of college right before she dated me).

You should consider fixing your current marriage and working together toward building a life for your family.
All the tools are here on the site, or in the book.

The best investment you can make in yourself or your family is to work through your current situation. Read, read, and read.

I applaud you for looking for help. This is the right place, and most posters do not advocate divorce lightly. This site teaches you to become the best spouse you can be, so take the time and learn how to make it work - for the benefit of all of you.

She's not the problem.

Pariah,
A little more feedback please? What do you mean?

You want to divorce your wife for being herself, you knew how she was when you married her.

You are rejecting your wife because the problem is you, she wants your attention and you are rejecting her.

This is a bad situation.

You go and do something stupid like divorce her, you will be back here in no time whining about what a mistake you have made and beg for info on how to get her back.

Y'all nee counseling and quick.

I do appreciate the candid feedback. That's why I'm on here. I am looking to make a decision I won't regret. Judging by the posts on this thread and others, I'm convinced that counseling is the way to go and that this marriage may not be as doomed as I sometimes feel.

No, your marriage isn't doomed and from your description, your wife is receptive to counseling.

However you are going to have to accept changes in yourself.

Also, I highly recommend the book Baby Proof Your Marriage. It has many of the same techniques that His Needs/Her Needs has.

Consider carefully that you said you all were in good shape until you started talking about having a family. Having a child changes the dynamics in a marriage in ways no one can ever convey to the uninitiated. If marriage amplifies the good and the bad 10 times, children amplify the good and the bad by 100. Part of the problem is sleep deprivation and stress. It gets much better as the children get older and you all gain some confidence.

And, to me, it doesn't sound like you need to divorce now.... It seems like you all need a plan and to work the plan.

Ramp up your communication. Talk about everything. Be honest, but not judgmental. Own your own problems. Reinvigorate your relationship by making sure you have time together (15 hours per week) that's just for you two; hire a babysitter if you have to. Go to www.bettermen.org and read about being a man and a husband and a father at the same time; one of the ideas it stresses is that you spend time with other men so that you don't start resenting your wife, like you sound.

Finally, ask your wife what you could be doing to make her life as a new mother easier. She may be struggling but not willing to tell you she needs help. Have you picked up half the housework or babywork? You should.

Thanks for all the input everyone. You've given me a great jumping off point to improve my marriage and you've reminded me of something I had forgotten: I have no control of other people's behavior (my wife specifically), I only have control of my own behavior and how I perceive others. I've been trying to change her, when I should be changing myself.

Give the man a prize. You have no idea how much you've saved in counseling to learn that lesson.

Now, work on it. Babies change everything. If you had a good foundation, you can recover it. Work hard on your marriage, it's worth it.

BigMac,

I'm wondering whether your wife is just desparate for some adult conversation after all day at school taking care of other people's kids, and then home taking care your own child.

I'm an extrovert, so I can understand about your wife hounding your for attention, lol. If you start giving your wife quality attention (be fully engaged talking or doing something together) she will probably feel less need to have every second of your time.

Its kind of like eating junk food. You can eat bags of it because it doesn't give your body the nutrition that it really needs. Too much ends up being never enough.

Try to negotiate an hour break when you first come home, and try to be present in a major way in your interactions after that.

My mother used to say that to mention divorce is to open pandora's box. To mention it, makes it a possibility - an option.

So...don't talk about it. Ban it from your conversations.

Instead...talk about staying together and what it's going to take for both of you to be happy.

Fill out the love buster questionnaires first. Exchange them, and work on eliminating those things that irritate the two of you. Do this knowing they are permanent changes and will benefit the marriage greatly.

Then, when you have the LBs eliminated, fill out the emotional needs questionnaires, and exchange those. Start fulfilling each others' emotional needs. And...be just as serious about making these permanent changes as well.

Read about POJA and radical honesty. Read everything you can on here. It's free information and worth the time.

Get her on board with MB. I see a lot of hope in your situation. Those first few years with children are challenging, but it's so worth struggling through.

A strong marriage doesn't just 'happen.' Marriage takes work, and struggling through certain areas/phases in your life together is what is going to make the marriage strong and resilient.

You should stay the grass is not greener on the other side. You think you want to be alone, all the hurt is not worth it. She just want to spend time with you. My wife wants to spend time away you are lucky

Let me sum your situation up for you: you got into something you didn't understand (marriage) and then failed to do anything to maintain it, or understand the person you married and her needs.

That's the summation of your situation.


So?


Please explain this one. If you have issues with the institution of marriage, why did you get into a marriage?


These are disrespectful judgments, which are Love Busters. I suggest you get the book "Love Busters" and read it thoroughly. Think of it as a marriage (or any long-term relationship) handbook.


Did they not have them when you married her? Has her family suddenly changed or something? There is nothing either of you can do to change her family, although there are ways to handle family.

You also need a real sense of perspective, here. I'm betting you have some idiosynchrocies of your own, as does your family. These are normal issues in any marriage, and dealing with these issues is what both of you said, "I do," to.


Sounds to me like you need to read Love Busters a LOT, and get some perspective in life. Some emotional maturity wouldn't hurt, either. When you marry, every little thing you do (including speaking and not speaking) affects your spouse, and - therefore - your marriage. EVERYTHING. Thus, every decision you make must take its effect on your wife and marriage into account. Just like when you are a parent, you have to make your decisions with your children in mind, so it is with having a spouse and marriage.


Of course you do. Dr. Harley calls this the Policy of Joint Agreement, and it is a must for a marriage (no matter what you call it). She also has to do the same with you.


Define "assert myself", because (in the context of your post) it sounds like "do what I want to do no matter what her opinion is". If that is the case, yes, you have started a fight.


Of course she does. It is called family/couple time. The opposite of these isn't a marriage - it is two people living in the same house and flopping down in the same bed at different times. You cannot have a marriage by yourself. You cannot have a marriage while dedicating no time and effort to it.


Then I suggest that you don't fight, and instead sit down and discuss the problems safely together to find solutions that you can mutually agree upon.


Yes, your wife wants - actually needs - to connect with you on this level for her to experience intimacy with you. This intimacy is a pre-requisite for many things, but sex is one of them. Watch ONE romantic movie. Read one romance novel. Do you see anything in them about women being happy with a man who doesn't have a conversation with her and goes into isolation all the time? The reason is that this is not what women need to be in love, and it isn't what they want in a relationship. The only time you will see this type of relationship in a romantic movie or novel is when it is the relationship the woman breaks free from to finally find real love.


You are not meeting her emotional needs for Affection and Conversation (and probably quite a few other things). When do you make time to meet these needs?


Actually, I think you are the one who doesn't get it. She needs this connection with you. It isn't optional for her. You are in a relationship with a woman, and you have to maintain that relationship with her. You don't do that by going into isolation mode all the time.

If you need some alone time, that's quite fine. But you also have to make time and take the effort to give her the connection time, Affection, and Conversation that she needs. Her love for you is based upon (and dependent upon) that. It simply isn't optional. Women are like that.


Exactly 48%, huh? I don't see this as a future 'issue'. It is the future that will happen if you and your wife split up. She won't stay single.


I don't know of any woman (barring extenuating financial circumstances) that will agree to such an arrangement if there is no hope of her getting what she needs emotionally from the relationship. Those few I know who have done it (extenuating financial ciricumstances) date. No one goes without their emotional needs being met on a long-term basis like what you are suggesting. Your suggestion has no basis in reality, because you need her to agree to such an arrangement.



Ok, so things have changed. What went wrong, when, and how do you fix it? (Note that I didn't say how you fix her.)


You will need to make some real changes, and find ways to get your alone time without neglecting her emotional needs. Right now, your wife is emotionally neglected.


Well, the good news is that she still loves you. I doubt it is romantic love, though. Most guys in your situation get, "I love you, but I'm not in love with you," and it is generally accompanied by an affair.

Of course she doesn't like you. You neglect her emotional needs and cause her great pain by doing so.



Expand upon this, please. You have yet to tell us anything specific she does beyond trying to get you to meet her emotional needs - which she should do. If she stops trying, that means that she no longer wants you to meet her needs. She is essentially emotionally divorced from you. An affair often comes right on the heels of this.

She told me that she considers divorce, but wants another child and it to be from the same father. She said that she doesn't want to be alone and that she doesn't want to go through the time and energy of learning how to live with a new husband and his sh*t.


Honestly, at this point, I think it is because she thinks you want counseling to "straighten her out", and it will do no good unless you make some real changes, too. In fact, she'd be right on the last part.


The right thing is also the least easy thing, so you are in luck. You need to fix your marriage. This is hard. It takes real introspection, self-awareness, compassion, understanding, discipline, paradigm shifts, and change of habits. You haven't done anything that I can see to try to fix your marriage (no counseling, no behavioral changes on your part, certainly no understanding of her needs, why she needs them, and how important they are...you are very dismissive in regards to that). This is hard.

You should consider divorce after you have done everything you can to save your marriage. Until then, I don't think you should be considering breaking your child's family apart. (No abuse, no addiction, no affairs...)