I think talking to Jennifer again is probably a good idea. I do feel the stress of everything and I'm having a difficult time making decisions about what I need to do about my M.

I don't know who I can expose to at this point. I exposed to OWM and also sent an email to OW which now makes me look like a moron. Both letters said that WH had a desire to work on our M. Obviously, that turned out to be a joke. My family knows, but they have no influence over WH. He has said he will never see any of them again because of an email my dad sent to him telling him what a louse he is for ditching me while I don't have a job.

I could expose to his family, but they don't have any influence over him either. They live in England and there isn't a whole lot of contact between them. They aren't a regular part of his life.

When I see some of the details of his life, I wonder how he turned into this empty shell...

KLD,


Believe me, that I do understand. In my situation, I am the bread winner and for the most part, always have been.

In all honesty, if I did a plan A, it was done while my FWH was still in the affair and I didn't know about it. I made a conscious decision to not engage in arguments with him when he was being mean and ugly to me, which was alot during his affair.

What I did do was begin to withdraw from him and for him that was all it took for him to get scared.

I'll be the first to admit that once I knew about the affair, even though it was over by that point, I LB'd the pants off my FWH for nearly 4 years! I don't think that I could have pulled off a even a weak plan A had I discovered the affair while it was still on going.

You seem so strong that I have admired you a great deal. You will know when the time is right to go to plan B and if you need to wait until you find a job, that is probably wise.

It is just my gut feeling that your WH isn't going to stop this affair no matter how good a plan A you do. Don't let him convince you that he is somehow justified in continuing his affair because your plan A doesn't meet his standard. What a load of crap! As I understand it, for most it takes a dark plan B to wake up the wayward.

I hope you find the perfect job soon!

Who

Sorry I wasn't more clear on exposure.

I meant exposure to HIM. Telling him that you had the PI follow him, and that you know he was with OW, and that you know he is lying.

As was said before......... the legal advice makes sense, but it's not the best advice for marriage building. These kinds of things are hard. Your lawyer wants to protect your chances if it does go to D, but that kind of hurts holding the marriage together.

Don't think you are crazy, or that you are doing badly, or that you are falling apart. Sure if feels like it sometimes, but that's how this goes. Look back at your history. Look at your accomplishments, and your ability, and who you really are.

Please believe in your self. OK?

SS

It seems like your resolve is crumbling because he is not doing what you wanted him to, or he should, do, to make everything right for you. He has chosen to continue to lie and see OW. I really believe that many men simply do NOT respond to anything but strength.

I realize your money is tight, but I think for your sanity you need to leave or make him leave, at least for now, unless you can deal with him temporarily. He will never suffer consequences as it is. He's just getting better at cake eating. But I see you getting more and more distressed and it scares me.

I also disagree about telling him what you know. You told him that you THINK he's lying. That carries no weight whatsoever with him. He knows that you're going to THINK he's lying no matter what. The only way he will sit up and listen is if you flat out say 'I KNOW you're lying, and I have proof.' If you want him back, that is. If you don't, just kick him out and file for separation. Are you in an alimony state? Set it up. Scare the pants off of him. A few months ago you were mad as h&ll at him; now you're down to wondering what you're doing wrong and how you can do things better. He has won, IMO. And I hate that. You deserve better.

Have you tried calling United Way? They have a massive amount of agencies under their umbrella, from job placement to counseling to medical to money help. I really wish you would call them. That's what they're there for.

As for Plan B and no job? Just go work at Jack in the Box for now. Who cares? It puts food on your table while you search for a real job, and gives you the mental strength (being on your own) to fight this A.

Finally, who cares if he'd prefer if you didn't cry? He lost the right to preferences when he cheated. He deserves for you to be steaming mad at him. It's the only way he will listen to you.

{{{KLD}}}

My head is spinning just a little bit. I feel like I need to protect any case I might have if this goes to D, but I want to save the M if possible. I won't be married to someone who continues to cheat on me, though. I may be waffling a little bit now, but in the long run I won't stay for this kind of treatment. It seems like I can't have it both ways - just like I'm saying to WH. LOL. I know I've got to tell him I know about Easter weekend. There's that part of me that believes this is going to end in D, so I need to help myself there. Then there's the part that says it can work, so I need to do everything right to recover the M.

Cat - I understand what you're saying about being mad. I have been very angry. I'm still angry when I stop and think about it. I just can't live day by day in an angry state. It's not who I am and I'm not comfortable staying mad. I'm still hurt more than I can put into words, and still mad sometimes. The hurt is constant, but the anger isn't. I know he knows how hurt I am. He can't miss it. I've said it to him a million times and he sees it.

I appreciate all your support and advice. It helps more than I can express. I know that deep down inside I am strong, but it's very hard to maintain it when things are so rocky in many areas of my life.

I'm making some preparations for plan B, even though I really don't think of it on those terms. I probably should be honest with myself about that!!! I'm stashing cash in a safe deposit box as I can. I've got all the details of his A in case I need it for the lawyer in the safe deposit box. I've got a journal with events detailed stashed there, too. I've got a budget prepared and I've done some research on apartments in case I need to move myself. I've also made a list of temp agencies that I can go to for temp work if I don't have a job by the middle of April. My severence stops at the end of April.

SS - thanks for the reminder that I am worth believing in. I needed to hear that.

I appreciate the poem, too. It helped.

I am struggling still with the right thing for me. If I wasn't without a job, I'd probably be more certain and sure. It would be easy to just do a plan b or even file for D at this point since there's been a second d day.

Thanks for the reality check, Who. I think you're right that he will continue with the A no matter how good a plan a I do. I didn't think so at first, but he's proven it to me by this latest episode.

I know I need to get my head out of the sand, and I have done that to a degree. I recognized his return to bad behavior and verified it by hiring the PI again. But now I need to follow through with the second part.

I hope you don't think I was criticizing the way you're handling things. I think you're amazing. It's just that the way you describe your conversations with him, you sound weaker than it seems you should be - and no disrespect here, just what it sounds like, clinically. I guess what I mean is that when I read what/how you talk to him, I get this picture of him silently thinking, 'yeah, go right ahead and wonder. You're so snowed I can just start doing even more now.' If that's not how your conversations are going, I apologize. It just sounds like it, and logically to me, that would make him think you're just an emotional female, someone he can get around.

When I say mad, I guess I really mean...calm, cold, and strong. If you can. Cos I would think that that is what would scare him most into complying. Best wishes.

I understand about saving the proof for the divorce, but it doesn't make sense to me. You already have the proof; whether he knows about it will make no difference on what you can turn in at court. It may affect his future actions, but then, maybe that's what he needs - to know that you will continue to check on him so he'd better straighten out, ya know? Right now he has no incentive. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't glad you lost your job, cos he'd be thinking (1) you can't afford to be hiring any more PIs and (2) it puts you in the weaker position. JMO

KLD,

I LOVE the word "cold". That is what I have menat all along when I say "mad". Cold, withholding, uncommunicative. I do not believe he will get anything until you at least do THAT and do it until he gives it up to you. Completely.

Why don't you write a Plan B letter and post it her? You don't have to give it to him. Write it assuming you will get a good job soon. It might help you clarify your thoughts and what you really want here. Maybe you'll find out you WANT to stay married. Maybe you'll find out you don't.

Have you read the posts called "I'm Cheating and Here's My Story"? It is near the top of the GQII section right now. This guy almost sounds like he could be your WH. I know he isn't but maybe you would get some insight from his thoughts. He still seems very foggy even though he is admirably posting.

Praying
WH2LE

Hi KLD, I just saw your thread, and wanted to come by and give you some hugs. ((((KLD)))) I am SO proud of you for keeping part of the real world - Easter service, time with your sister, BiL and niece, to help you stay grounded, to give you support in your belief that your life is bigger than your WH and his actions.

Are you doing alot of networking? The last time I was out of work, I found locally that we have an unemployment office that has classes and other networking opportunities and ideas, and that's how I found this place I'm at. It made a world of difference to me schedule appointments out of the house every day and setting a goal of practice giving my 30 second introduction to 5 new people every day.

Are you looking locally, or where your H's new job is?

EO, thanks for the job search reminders. I am networking, though probably not enough. I have an interview Wednesday that I got because of networking. There's actually an open position there, so the interview will actually be for a job, not just for potential future ones.

I am practicing my 30 second intro, though I'm not giving it to new people like I should. That's a great idea and I'm going to try it. I am trying to at least leave the house every day even if I only run errands.

I made a goal at the start of my search that I'd make 10 contacts every day related to networking or sending a resume. That was a very aggressive goal and I haven't reached it most days. I decided to do the best I could do every day and instead of counting contacts, I now have a schedule and try to keep to the schedule as much as possible.

I also have a couple of other possibilities that I hope to hear about this week from contacts I made last week. Things on the job front are looking up just a bit.

This weekend was difficult. I told him I knew he'd seen her the previous weekend and he kept wanting to know how I know. I stuck by my story that it didn't matter how I know. He did admit that he'd seen her. He said he is very mixed up and that he has no idea what he wants for his life. He said he knows he doesn't want to be with OW and he knows it was a mistake to see her again.

I went way outside of MB concepts and lit into him about his A and how it's devastated me, him, and our M. OW just goes on her merry way, on to the other married men she's got already on the string or in her plan. I went off about her - the fact that all the info I found out about her and what a real life loser she is and how she played him and took money from US, not just from him. I said she may not have come out and asked you for money, but somehow she let you know that a little help from you would be "appreciated."

I told him that it really hurt that I did everything I could do to help him get his business off the ground last year and then when he decided to find a job I helped with that. I never fussed at him to get any job just to bring in some money. He was never satisfied with the help I gave - whatever I did or offered was wrong. He just carried on with his A and treated me like crap. Now that I need the encouragement and support while in a job search after the confirmation that he was in an A, he wants a D. For over a year I worried about his depression and self esteem over his career and he was in an A and pushing me away the whole time. There is so much more I said to him. I was so very emotional. I know it's not attractive or strong, but I didn't care if he saw how vulnerable and hurt I am because of his actions.

He said he understood how and why I felt the way I do. He said he knows he was wrong and that he regrets every second of what he's done. He said he knows he's in very bad condition and that he needs to get straightened out. He said that if he could go back he never would have gotten involved with her.

I told him on Sunday that he will never, ever get straightened out if he doesn't get rid of this OW. She is poison and she will wring him out even more if he allows it. He finally told me that he did a background check on her himself this past week and found out alot of the info I told him was true. He asked her about it and she lied to him.

I told him that getting healthy starts with his next step. He can choose to get himself together and get help or he can choose to stay in a tail spin. I don't know what will happen next.

Cat, I didn't think you were critical at all. Even if you were, I know you only mean the best. No worries...

I do think I go back and forth between being weak and being strong. Sometimes that happens even in the same conversation.

WH's actions have been typical of a WH - selfish, dishonest, mean, thoughtless. I think the A has screwed him up. I think he may have already been damaged when I married him.

We may end up in D, but I discovered this weekend that I'm not really ready to throw in the towel yet. We may get to D very soon, but I think there's more for us to say to each other before we file any paperwork. I know that many here will think I'm a mess for not kicking him to the curb, but I'm the one who has to live with my decisions. To be honest, when my family finds out that I didn't see my lawyer this week, they will be upset with me.

Bravo, KLD! You really, really needed to have that talk with him, IMO. He needed to hear it. Even if you've said it before, remember the 11-times rule, or whatever it is. You have to say something, according to research, at least 11 times before it sinks in.

But he really needed to hear all that, especially that part about how you supported him, never griped, never expected anything, and now that YOU need help, he wants to leave. Very strong stuff.

I know how you feel about the family. My family has always wanted me to get rid of H, he's so toxic. And they see so much of the bad, because much of it was directed at them, LOL. So I've lived with their disappointment in me for at least 20-25 years. But you have to just say 'I know how you all feel; you may be right. But the right thing for ME right now is to make sure I've done everything I can in this situation. If it still ends up bad and he doesn't improve, then I'll leave. But I have to make sure I try my best, or I'll always kick myself for giving up.' Something like that.

But, wow, what a great talk! And I lurved how you just said 'you don't need to know how I know.' Priceless. Keep him scared.

hi sweet kld,

i am just catching up .... so sorrrryyyy to hear of the recent events. i too am here giving you a huge standing ovation for letting him know how this has rocked you to the depths of your soul. bravo to you!

it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks or would do in the same sitch. you are the only one who can make the final decision to what you need for you. and you will make the right choice for you when it is the right time for you.

you are an amazing lady who deserves all the best!

i love that you have him twisting in the wind as to how you know about the last contact with that thing.

good work!!!

Thanks for the support and encouragement. WH and I talked again on Monday night. I was much calmer since I'd really released my negativity on him the night before.

I told him that his life is out of control and he is making terrible decisions about his life. He agreed that he is out of control, but he doesn't know how to get things back in line.

I told him that he has got to get counseling and see if he needs to be on ADs. I also said that he can stop the bad decisions right this minute - he can choose to not be a liar from right now forward. He says he doesn't know what he wants for his life.

I asked if I'm even the kind of person he wants to be married to and he said "sometimes." I couldn't believe that answer. I just said "wow" when he gave that reply. I don't know if he really thinks that lowly of me or if that's part of his fogspeak. I shouldn't have asked the question if I couldn't handle the answer, but I truly expected him to say that he at least believes that I'm a good person and that he wants to be married to a good person.

So, for the moment we are in limbo. He hasn't said that he wants the M and I fully expect that he will still decide to D. I decided that I have to protect myself financially and I can't do that if I have to dig into savings or count on him to support 2 households. I'm not doing a plan b until I get a job and can financially support myself and pursue a D from a point of strength if it gets to that.

I know many would think this is crazy, but I've actually thought about it alot and I think this is the way I can get through this. Things between us are not angry and uncomfortable. I don't see signs of him continuing communication with OW while he's at home. So, I'm going to get a job first and then be prepared to move on Plan B or D. If WH comes around before I get a job and wants to work on our M, then fine. If not, I'll be ready to make a move when I'm financially stable again. If things between us were tense and nasty, this obviously wouldn't be an option. But though we aren't affectionate and loving with each other right now, we are pleasant and able to have normal conversations so life isn't a bucket of misery when we're in the same house. I have asked that he not "rub my nose" in his A. He says he's not in contact now. I don't believe him, but have realized I can't make him do or not do anything.

Anyone else who has decided to accept status quo for specific reasons for a short time? How did it work out for you?

i accepted status quo for a few years and it sucked quite frankly. i built up soooo many resentments that at one point i just blew and i finally told him to get out.

we didn't argue really either, just lived separate lives in separate rooms,etc. it was hell on the kids to live that way. and i could have gotten on with my life much sooner if i had not accepted status quo.

i was in college full time and only working part time. it was financially devastating to make him leave. but 3 years later i am in a really good place that a lot of very hard work has brought me.

just my 2cents with what i went through...

mlhb

Thanks for sharing your experience, mlhb. I thought about the fact that my life is on hold in a sense and I'm not getting any younger (who is??).

I am doing some other things to move my life forward - I decided yesterday to include other areas besides where I live now in my job search. That will open up additional opportunities for me and the decision to at least look at moving to a new city was a step forward towards making a new life for me.

I'm also studying for a certification that will enhance my credentials which should also help my career. I am able to study any time I want - I'd put this off because I wanted to be available to spend time with WH at night and I was working during the day.

I hope that this period only lasts a few more months - my plan is to start plan b when I get a job unless we've somehow been able to start recovery. I don't think WH or I can keep something like this up for years.

It sounds like a great plan, probably the best you can hope for. You're doing so well!

fwiw, if you're really considering moving, may I recommend Houston? We have thousands upon thousands of job openings here. It's not the prettiest city in the world - very flat, but we're getting there - tons of parks, great culture, one of the most 'tree filled' cities (and our mayor's been planting thousands more trees the past couple of years), many industries, great airport. Just a thought.

Good luck with your certification and job search!

Cat - I did put Houston on my list of possibilities. I also included Dallas/Ft. Worth. I don't want to move north of Atlanta - 12 years of St. Louis winters made me value the southern winters I grew up with!

It's funny that when I sent out the first resume yesterday outside of Atlanta I felt alot more in control than I have in a while. I may not end up moving, but I have options. That makes me feel in control.

I haven't shared the info with my WH that I've widened my search area. I will let him know when/if something comes of it.