Hi everyone.

I hope this is the best section to post this pretty weird question.

I am in the midst of a VERY VERY difficult marriage. It has really overwhelmed me for the better part of a year. I DO NOT think my wife is being unfaithful, BUT, something keeps grinding at me.

I would like to hear from ANYONE who is going through or has gone through this:

You doubt your spouses infidelity. You snoop. You find NO EVIDENCE. A bit more time passes and it turns out that YES! YOUR SPOUSE IS, IN FACT, HAVING AN AFFAIR.

Did I explain myself correctly? You see, most betrayed posters FOUND something, SOMETHING that exposed the relationship. Has anyone experienced an EXTREMELY cautious, careful spousal affair where there was NO EVIDENCE? I'm not talking about not realizing your spouse was fooling around because you were not looking, but where you ACTIVELY sought out evidence, found none, and then BANG! it turns out that, in fact, an affair WAS going on.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it.

I never, ever saw any clue to infidelity outside of H acting bizarre that began around June of 07. By this I mean a nagging feeling that something was wrong and he'd take lots of long walks by himself, and he began telling me he was having lots of stomach upset and headaches and he thought it was because he'd gained weight. He was going thru a large bottle of Tums in one month. I knew he was feeling a bit down because DD17 was going to graduate and she had plans to move to NY with bf after she turned 18. I figured it was just a midlife crisis and then in Sept. I got the "I don't love you anymore" speech. I put in extraordinary attempts to fix whatever I was doing wrong because he said he wasn't happy in our messy home, and our sex life was blah, etc. He told me that he was happy with the efforts "I" was making on our marriage but still in my heart I knew something still was not right. At Christmas, I snooped thru an old backpack and found receipts for dvds and cards, and on Christmas Day I did not receive those as gifts. Talk about being shocked!! I waited until the day after Christmas so as not to ruin anyone's holiday (and Christmas is MY big holiday!)and I finally got confirmation of a year long A with a woman he'd met on a sex site. To this day I don't know how he pulled it off! I also had searched his car, wallet, coat pockets, etc. while he acted bizarre and there was nothing. He says the guilt of the 2nd life was why he had so many headaches and stomach upset and if only I had realized this, I might have saved myself months of anxiety.

Thanks
I know it must suck to talk about it. No clues at all, huh?

I'll tell you though, that ILYBIANILWY is just about an admission to an affair, isn't it?

I had NO gut feelings that my FWH was doing anything inappropriate. NONE. I just thought that he was under tremendous stress and that it was seriously affecting him...

After my FWH drove my sister and I somewhere and he blew through a stop sign (something he denied doing even tho it was plain as day), my sister said, you'd better go through his phone record, block your caller ID and call each phone number there that you don't know.

I assured her that was unnecessary and he would NEVER do that. Boy, do I wish I followed that advice sooner! (Our MC told me that I am still mourning the loss of trust since I still get pretty emotional when I talk about what a shock it was to me...)

Have you used a voice activated recorder? I seem to recall you asking about that. Also if there is no active A, is it possible she is forming an attachment/attraction to someone else?

Yea, if I had discovered this site sooner, I would've known what was happening months before I found those receipts. The agony of the ILYBINILWY speech would've told me exactly what was happening. Instead I struggled in a zombie state for 3 months trying to figure everything out!

Blowing thru a stop sign made your sis suspicious? Why? Showed something was on his mind? Fill me in.

Yeah, I posted another thread about info on voice recorders. I think that one makes sense because you DEFINATELY feel the safest in your car, don't ya??

I'm sorry you still feel so much pain. I really admire the way all the BS go on even though they are hurting so bad. A lotta guts.

Zombie state. Perfect description.

Like I said, I don't THINK shes messing around, but when she told me that its basically over and we can live together but stay away from her, man, I cried every single friggin day for a good 4 months. I used to judge how bad the previous day had been by the amount of dry salt on my glass lense. In fact, after 7 months, my "unbreakable" frames had been EATEN away from the salt. Had to get new ones. And I didn't even EXPERIENCE AN AFFAIR like you guys.
Its tough when you love someone with everything you got and then you see it slip away. Tough.

Back in Jan 07 my wife and I were having a weird time. Things felt very off. We weren't fighting, we'd never really fought.

I tried talking to her, got nothing, she was distant, just, weird.

I sat up out of a dead sleep a few weeks later with the clear realization in my head "SHE'S HAVING AN AFFAIR!"

I couldn't believe it. I poked around, found nothing, filed it away as it was something that would be so very out of character for her. But it ate at me, because I couldn't figure things out. An A would make everything that was happening make sense, but I couldn't find any evidence to back up my feeling.

Couple months later she dropped the "I love you but not 'in love' with you" bomb on me. I kept snooping, and kept finding tidbits, but nothing concrete. The truth did not come out until I contracted VD.

The rest of my story is available in the links in my sig.

However, as it turns out, I was right all along, and I picked up on the A while it was in its formative stages. She was having an A with a co-worker, at his apt. close to thier work during thier lunch hour. Had I acted on my gut at the time, I could have perhaps prevented the EA from turning into a 4 month long PA. Who knows?

I'm a big fan of trusting one's gut, needless to say.

Oh man, Tyk....sorry.

You think gut, huh? And I admit, never in a million, zillion, years would I have thought she would mess around. But.......like you,it would explain this desire of hers to just make me disappear if she could. Thanks for the info.

The blowing of the stop sign didn't exist in a vacuum (to my sister). I had been talking to her about his stress level and how distant he seemed. She didn't make much of it until that night.

During the ride, he just seemed very distracted and tense. After it happened(stop sign incident and it was a very busy intersection btw) and he was completely oblivious to what he had done, she was very concerned about the state of mind he was in.

She is really perceptive, but I am still surprised she suspected an A right away. This is one of the few times I didn't listen to her...

I am doing well now, but the experience is definitely something that changes you...for the better in a lot of ways but the sadness still catches me offguard sometimes. A double-edged sword I guess you could say.

Good luck with your snooping. Are you prepping a Plan A regardless? Keep us posted!

Thanks Bitterpill

I will!

oh yeah... and felt completely stupid when proof finally fell into my lap...especially since about 6 months earlier...I could not find a lick of evidence.

I felt stupid the first time ....not finding any proof...and having to concede...even though my GUT was telling me yes..yes...yes.

I know my H didn't get caught because he got sloppy...he needed to get caught. The train was running so out of control...getting caught was his only way off.

Gabagool,
I am ashamed to admit that I treated my husband like crap for years.

But I did NOT have an affair!

I was so sick of him going out to bars and acting like a single guy instead of coming home and helping me with our toddler that the last thing I had on my mind was being nice to him or having sex with him.

He kept up his single lifestyle and I kept treating him like crap, I think if either one of us had taken the first step to stop treating each other bad then he may have never turned to other women.

I was one of those man bashing women like your wife is friends with. I felt like I did not need to put up with my husbands childish behavior, but I was so sick of men that I did not want any other man either. I figured that since he was the father of my child and I didn't want any other man I might as well just stay married and live like roommates. He was the one who decided he did not want to live that way any longer and walked out on me. Of course a few months later all the details of the OW came out.

My point is, your wife may not be having an affair and may just be sick of men period. I've read a lot of your posts, but I can't recall right now if your wife has had an affair before?

Do you think she could just be sick of men?

Vic

I think you may have hit it right on the head. She wasn't always like that. Regardless of how selfish I think she is right now, I am ashamed that I WAS the one to make her hate men. I NEVER, in a trillion years thought I could ever be that bad of a husband. I STILL don't know, but I feel pretty guilty about it. My wife was a beautiful, wonderful person. She should have been able to rely on her husband. I guess I let her down. No matter what happens, I will ALWAYS bear that burden.

PS. If your hub would rather go out than act like a husband, you have every right to not put up with it.

Thanks for all your thoughts.

I really appreciate you reading my posts. I am surprised you know about my wifes friend. She was a great gal at one time. Another lost relationship. SOmetimes the sadness just goes on and on.

I read your post about your wife's friend and the whole Easter thing and thought that is how I used to feel.

As for my husband, our lives changed dramatically last year, we almost divorced, we did not like each other very much at that point, we both blamed each other for the state of our marriage. But then I began look at my part in our marriage failing and had a real life changing realization which I shared with him, shortly after that he seemed to have a sort of mental breakdown. It's a long story, if you want more details let me know. But basically we have spent the last year rebuilding our marriage. He has become a wonderful husband and father, and I am working on being the best wife and mother that I can.

I wonder what advice the Harleys would have about what you could do to change things in your marriage with a wife that is just sick of men. Trust me on this, she is not happy being that way.

You should not blame yourself entirely, you both let it get to this point. It can't change unless she realizes how damaging her attitude is for your marriage and for herself.

Do you know what it is that you have done that contributed to her feeling this way?

Yeah, I have plenty of blame. Its all listed in my thread, mostly in the first 6 or 7 pages.

I know you said that "she is not happy" not liking men in general, but you could have fooled me. It seems just fine with her to live together, without interactions. She seems to genuinely DISLIKE me. In return a go back and forth between grief and anger. About a year ago she told me that we can stay together, but don't talk to her, bother her, give her a hard time. Just stay away. So I do. Just this evening. Both our boys are away. It was just her and I. She spent it UPSTAIRS watching TV and I spent it downstairs reading. No attempt to have conversation, nothing. I know I could have gone upstairs, but, like so many other times, the conversations would be forced and unpleasant. About 3 months ago she surprised me by agreeing to go into counseling to try and save this "marriage" because her parents and my children were bugging her to try again. I think she is in counseling just to get them off her back. While she is going to a MC, she does NOTHING during the rest of the week.

Anytime you want to tell me ANYTHING about your situation, you go right ahead. I know how awful it is to be the spouse who wants a better marriage, but is met or WAS met with deceit or resistance.

Okay my attention span is low today as my husband has been out of town for 2 nights and I do not sleep much while he is gone.

Your response to my question about what you did wrong was that you listed it on your other thread, but I can't focus enough to read all of your posts on your other thread. So I will just assume that you do know what you have done wrong and you have changed. The real reason I asked the question was to get you to think about your contribution to your marriage being in this state.

I'm sorry I really do not have much advice as to what you could do to help change how your wife feels about men. I can tell you what triggered the change for me, but I do not recommend it for you because although it triggered the change for me it has also left scars that seem like they will never go away.

My husband had an affair and left me. I really thought that no matter how bad I treated him he would never leave me. So this rocked me to my core. I began to really look at myself and my behavior and I did not like what I saw. This was the catalyst for my change. I broke down and told my husband all the things that I realized I had done wrong in our marriage. This was the catalyst for his change. This happened one year ago and we have both grown so much as marriage partners that it is scary, good but scary.

The only reason I tell you this is because I think it is going to take something major and life changing before your marriage will change.

You mentioned that you and your wife are going to MC. Do you like the MC? Do they use the MB principles? It sounds like neither of you is getting much out of the MC. If that is so then maybe you need to spend some time researching MC's and finding one that is a better fit for you both. It sounds like neither of you is getting your needs met and that your wife is unwilling to let you try to meet her needs. Have you tried to meet her needs in a subtle way, so that the change is not sudden and overwhelming? Have you tried to meet her needs without expecting anything in return?

Yep. Unwilling to let me meet her needs.

That sentance really bothers me, I have to admit. To me, thats childish and immature. And I feel strongly enough about it to make a stand and not budge. She KNOWS that things are different now. And she will take a chance on a 25 year relationship and two childrens future by being stubborn and vindictive. I realize I made mistakes. I realize that she was unhappy. But she DENIED the unhappiness for close to 5 years. And all the time I was asking her if something was the matter, she not only denied that the love was dying she called me PARANOID AND AN EMOTIONAL GUINEA!!!.

So, you can see why her not ALLOWING me to get close really ticks me off. I know that does me no good and I know that it doesn't help the situation by being this way. BUt wrong is wrong and she wrong right now. Period. But, I keep this to myself and vent here.
And I also realize that when shes NORMAL, shes one of the 7 wonders of the world. ANd I mean that as much as I mean the part that I am so ticked at her for. I mean, when God made her, he looked at here and said to himself, "Man, I am on my game today, this is the best one yet". And he looked around and decided I was the lucky one to get to be with her. And somehow I ruined it. But that is in the past and I want to make it work. I would have done it sooner if she just admitted to her unhappiness. But I guess she just thought it was a temp thing, I don't know.
I just wish she could find a forgiving heart somewhere. I need it right now. But slowly I realize that it might never happen, regardless how nice I am. And while shes in the wrong right now, this REALLY IS MY DOING, MY JUST DESSERTS.

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY believe in gut feelings. My FWH swore up and down that there was no A for two years. Then after ending a "friendship" that I deemed inappropriate, he continued on his merry way for another two years with me completely oblivious. I wasn't sneaky about snooping either. I asked him point-blank many times if he had even SEEN OW and he denied. I always felt like there was something there, but had NO PROOF.

Then, one night, he decided to change our lives by telling me that I had been right all along and that not only had the first two years been a PA, he had continued it for another two years after that.

TRUST YOUR GUTS! Yes, it's a tricky spot to be in, but she's gaslighting you if she's making you feel like you're the problem for bringing up suspicions. If you have nothing to hide, you have no problem with someone looking.

Gabagool,
It seems like you avoid answering my questions.
Victoria