Thanks everyone. All very good advice. Will this do? I added a sentence that I thought would empower him to deal with it. Will it work?

Dear H,
I'm sorry that his emails hurt you--it never feels good to be criticized.

I know you’ll straighten everything out when you get back.

I love you,
Catperson

Cat, I'm glad to see that you are heeding the advice of your IC and finding ways to be honest with your H. I think this is an important dynamic for you in your M. I also think this is a good opportunity for honesty.

I like the idea of a short response to him. I think supporting his negative slant is the wrong thing to do - as you've said it has never helped him get better.

I do think it would be better to ask later if he's had a chance to think more about the co-worker's comments. I agree with Jayne that some of the hardest things to hear are some of the things we often need the most. With your H, this is a touchy situation, though. I think you will have to be careful in your approach when you ask him later - if you decide to do that.

Do you think he would respond to your willingness to brainstorm with him about ways he can try a more positive approach?

Another thing you may consider is asking him how he thinks he should handle this email from his co-worker. Since you say to him in your short email that you know he will handle it, it may be an avenue to starting the conversation with him.

Cat

My point is that IF you are CLEAR in your LOVE for your husband, you telling him how to better himself is THE RIGHT THING TO DO. If your husband reacts negatively, ITS ON HIM, not you. But, I stress, he HAS to know you are IN LOVE WITH HIM.

Now, since Im an old fashioned Italian male, I think PUBLICLY, spouses should ALWAYS back each other up, whether rightfully or wrongly. IN PUBLIC. If my wife is wrong as wrong can be, I've got her back against EVERYONE. She can be wrong as hellll, I don't care. I am her spouse and I WILL ALWAYS BACK HER. But in private, I thing it YOUR DUTY to TRY and get your spouse to be the best person he can be. Its a responsibily that comes with the territory. Look at your situation. YOU think your husband is this way, the other CO WORKER thinks your husband is this way. Like your room analogy, chances are YOU are right. ANd this behavior will continue having negative results in his life, for the REST of his life. And if it effects HIS life, guess who else gets effected.

You said "i love you". I take it you aren't lying. So, ANYTHING you say, you can rest easy that you only want GOOD things to happen to your husband. And for that to happen, he HAS GOT TO CHANGE HIS BEHAVIOR. Now, whether or not he changes his behavior or gets ticked at you telling him that.....thats on him.

I think the shorter letter will be easier for your husband to take, for sure. But will it REALLY make a difference? Now, if this attitude your husband has is not bugging you to any degree, thats fine, the first letter really isn't neccesary. But if you think this trait of his is a MAJOR issue in your RELATIONSHIP going forward and thriving, well, then, its really important to get on with it.

But, Cat, I know how tiresome constant battling can be. I really ALL DEPENDS on whether or not it is worth it to you. The second letter will keep the peace. Thats for sure. And there is NO CHANCE your husband will change. If you can live with that, well its really a no brainer.

Many men are not in touch with their emotions. I used to think that I didn't have any. I was intellectually and philosophically oriented to logic and reason with a generally suspicious view of emotions and their importance. Life has been working on me and I have changed my POV.

Also two books that are good are Emotional Intelligence (really good read for the emotionally tone-deaf). The other is "I Don't Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression" by Terrence Real. This book covers what Real calls "covert depression" - not the clinical depression that everybody can recognize, but the underlying depression (often from childhood and even passed on through generations of men) that manifests itself as other things, self medicating, alcohol, anger, etc.

One good thing about your husband's situation is that if it really is his fault, then he can fix it. That makes him much more powerful to deal with his situation.

Best of luck.

Thanks, BR. I have added the books to my list.

Cat, I wanted to repeat something to you that you told me very recently when I really needed it.

Nothing that you do today is going to make or break things in the big picture.

I want to add that both you and your H are in the care of a Higher Power. That He has plans for you, plans to prosper you and not harm you. I forgot the verse for that one. I hope that doesn't offend you if I say that. Please let me know if it does, and I won't say something like that to you again.

I also want to remind you that it's not in any way your fault that your H struggles with this. Like RL said, you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.

When I am unsure what to do, something that helps me also is to check my intent. It sounds like you are doing this, too.

Like jayne said, I'm really excited at the growth opportunity you all are presented with today.

I really have to agree with Telly on this, Cat...

I used to find myself always trying to fix things for my husband. He'd come home from work and tell me what a crappy day he'd had with this person or that person, and I'd comb my mind madly for a solution. Talk about pressure. And what I later realized is that it was a pressure I was putting on myself, unnecessarily.

Cat...changing how you deal with this sort of thing could be a very liberating thing for you.

I learned to validate and then allow him to fix his own issue with statements like "So...what do you think you'll do about that?" However...howEVER...I have to reMIND myself continually to do it this way. It's a habit - over many years - to fix things for others - including the kids - so watch and see if you aren't doing this with your daughter as well.

We women have a lot of pull with our kids and our husbands, and I honestly believe they take whatever confidence, displeasure, etc., we feel in them to heart and that it deeply affects how they function on a daily basis.

There have been times when he has heeded my advice and he's said that it was a good idea, but yeah...I have to agree with Telly. Men really aren't usually looking for someone to fix their problems, per say, as much as a sounding board and a vote of confidence that we know they can handle it.

I don't think this means you can never contribute, but I think it's important to establish if the person is actually asking for advice or not first.

Women are compelled to make everything better on an emotional level, but sometimes it isn't for the best.

Thanks eo. No worries.

Soolee, that is exactly who I am. Thanks for reminding me. We actually got to know each other under those circumstances - working at the same store, he would come to me and gripe about the other guys stealing his sales, etc., and I would give him advice. Then he would ignore it, and then he would come back a week later with the same problem! *smacks forehead with palm*

You'd think that I'd learn after all those years.

I'm trying really hard this week to step back from everything, and re-analyze what I need and don't need, do and don't do. All the old habits. Maybe that's the ADs starting to work; we upped the dosage this week. So this will be a good one to work on. Listen, validate, and ask him how he plans to fix it.

On a lighter note, you all know my issue with clutter. Well, I've been watching a lot of a show called Clean House lately, and I'm here to tell ya, I don't feel nearly as bad as I used to. Holy cow! I can't believe people live like that! In every episode, you can't even see the floor, in the whole house! So I am trying to make myself relax a little about it.

I did get my office and H's office cleaned out this week. I didn't touch any of his papers, they were all on his desk, not the floor. I brought in a dresser and organized all his cords and connectors and put them away in the drawers, and found a spot for all the old electronics and computer pieces. He'll probably gripe, but all our filing is done in that room, so I feel like I have a right to be able to get to the filing cabinets.

Cat - I think it's good for both of you if you can figure out how not to try and fix things.

I didn't realize how much pressure I was putting on myself by thinking I had to fix the family's problems, you know?

I think it's just one of those unhealthy but well-meaning habits we fall into as caregivers. We actually enable people to be dependent on us, and in the process produce more stress for ourselves.

Hey Cat!

Just how many books have you put on your list lately?

Here's another one:

Getting Things Done, by David Allen

It's a business oriented book, but you can apply it to anything. The man is a genius in declutter.

Here's one example: your email inbox. If you dare, see how many are there. The weight of all this gets you flustered and you can't do ANYHING.

Take the time to categorize everything according to the following system:

1) Is it of any use to anyone? NO - delete YES got to step 2
2) Does it require action? YES - 2a NO - 3)
2a) Am I the one to do it? YES - 2b NO - delegate it
2b) Can it be done in two minutes? YES - DO IT No DEFER IT
to a time when you have the time and tools
3) If you made it here, there is no action to be performed, but it has some use in the future, so file it in a system that makes sense to you.

Am I a fan? Yes, it has increased my productivity greatly.

My wife is a social worker. The key is that you don't allow somone to give you ownership of a problem. It will wear you out emotionally and you burn out.

So when a student brings a problem, she helps them find a solution. The students think she's a genius, supporting, caring, etc. She is. But the students are the ones doing the work, not her.

So the same thing with your husband. If he feels wronged, don't own the solution. Be sympathetic, empathetic, "Was that hard to read?" "How did that make you feel?" "What are you going to do?"

Everything is turned back to him. You acknowledge how he feels, but you don't own changing the feeling or even the scenario.

If he asks for help, you can help if you would like. However, there is nothing that says you have to help on his terms. There is nothing wrong with saying, "I can't help you in that fashion. I am willing to do X, Y and/or Z, would you like me to do any of those?"

But don't allow him to hand over personal problems, dumping them with you.

I just want to say thank you to everyone who's helped today. It has really lifted a load off of my heart. I've been so intertwined in doing this help pattern for so long, that I feel like I'm sinking with him as he makes mistakes. Just hearing from everyone that I don't need to be that way, that I shouldn't be that way for both our sakes, really helps me see things in perspective. I don't doubt that once I stop solving everything for him, but allow him to brainstorm his own ideas with me, he will start to develop more self-confidence, too.

And I'll try that email thing, thanks.

I'll second that: Getting Things Done, by David Allen

It's sitting on my desk right now and I'm halfway through it and its already helped me quite a bit.

Hey thanks! This is the most helpful thing for me that I've encountered (here or elsewhere) all week!

This book is going on my list too, and I'm going to put that list on a sticky or pop-up window or something on my computer.

I'm depressed tonight. D17 had her school dance recital tonight, and one of her friends from dance class invited us to go eat afterwards. Us, her friend and her boyfriend, their two mothers, and another friend. As I sat there, watching them all converse together (they all knew each other), talk about all the stuff they do, trips they take, stuff they're going to do, shopping trips, things the two women do on their own...I just had this profound sadness, that that was the way regular people live, and we have never been that way. We've been insulated, our own little party of 3. H rarely even wanted to spend time with family, even though they lived in the same town, so D17 doesn't even have that slice of normalcy.

This isn't a blame party or a gripe fest, because it's as much my fault as H's. It's just sadness. It's like that one poster this week who was abused, and we helped her see that it wasn't normal. She said that she had a hard time realizing that everyone doesn't deal with abuse, she just figured it was what was normal.

I'm ready to change, but I'm still so sad at what we've missed out on, especially now that I've only got another year or so with D17. We've just been sinking into this quicksand, getting in worse and worse shape every year, both financially and situationally. I wish I could just change everything right now.

{{{{{ cat }}}}}

But cat, you are working to change. Sure you missed out on some things in the past, but realizing it now is so much better than wasting another 5, 10 years.

And whatever happened these past years, that's what's brought you to where you are now. And that's a pretty awesome person!

Your DD too. You never know how things might have been if things had been different; things might have been worse too. You're here now, you've raised a wonderful D, you're smart and know what you want your life to be, and you're working toward that.

Besides, you don't know what pain they've been through too. Didn't I read here the other day, something like, "Everyone appears normal until you get to know them"?

Things are looking up for you. Look forward, and up.

Thanks, jayne. You're always there for me.

I think I'm just starting to tense up, because MrCat is coming home tomorrow.

Cat, I'm so sorry things hit you hard last night. I wish I'd seen it last night while you were still up and writing. I don't know if I can help, but I definitely understand. I often feel the same way and have felt that way even before I was married.

My WH has traveled for so much of our M that our social life has been almost non-existent. We don't have friends to do fun things with. We haven't taken many vacations because WH always has a reason to nix those kind of plans. I have so many regrets about the loneliness I've felt before marriage and since.

One thing keeps sounding in my head, though. On YAL's thread you told her to think positive and to basically recite the good things about her plan to herself every day. Is this something that might work for you? Okay, so you're not in the same situation as her and your plan is completely different, but it is a plan that is working for you. You're making progress and you're taking action. There's much to be thankful for there - and it's all because you're doing the work to move forward. You've decided to no longer accept the status quo and you're making changes in yourself that will (and already have) shape your future.

Also, stop thinking that you only have a short time left with D17. That's simply not true. Even though she'll be away at college soon, that doesn't mean you won't have her in your life. Whatever your relationship with her is, it will be shaped and directed by the role you choose to take in her life. You've raised a very intelligent and loving daughter. She will continue to be just that. I look back on my R with my mother. I'm 48 years old and have a great mom. She was always present in my life and she was always a strong resource for me. She still is those things, but she's also a friend now. It's funny, because I think she actually learns some things from me now. I picture your relationship with D17 as a similar one. I actually do think you're more in touch than my mom was and that would have made a big difference for me when I was in my teens. You've got so much to be proud of for how you've parented your D and she isn't going to leave your life. Things will change, but I believe the changes will be good ones because you've laid the right groundwork for that.

As for all the things you feel you've missed because of your M, you can't change any of that. It's the past. It's done. What you can change is the path to your future. You can have the happiness and full life you want, though it may be a little different than you want. You can make friendships more important and even make new friends. You can let DH figure his own stuff out while being supportive and loving. There are so many changes you're contemplating and working toward. That's so good and so positive. You're not in the grave yet, so there's a whole life ahead of you that can be wonderful. Easier said than done, I know. You truly are headed in the right direction.

Cat, I don't think you realize how special you are. You don't hear that from the people who mean the most to you, but you are an amazing woman. You have so much insight and understanding that you're willing to share with others. You do have the power to use that insight and understanding in your own life. You can do this. I know you can. As you know, it starts with a single step and momentum builds from there. You're already on your way.

I hope this post isn't all jumbled - I just started typing my thoughts and I hope it makes sense.

{{{KLD}}} I shouldn't be reading this at work, you're making me cry! Thank you. I was thinking last night on the way home about who on my street I could invite out. Can't invite them over til the house is cleaner, but we could go out. So that will be one of my steps, which will clearly be outside of my comfort zone, both asking someone to go somewhere (Hold, you hear me? I'm just like you), and telling H I'm going out. He always says he wants me to do stuff like that, so I'll take that and run with it.

Wow, cat, I'm sorry to hear how painful it was last night. Are you feeling better today? I'd like to second what jayne and KLD said about there being so much good, too, and being so much opportunity ahead of you.

I've been working recently on resentments, too. I find some, work thorough them, go along peacefully, and then find that there were still more that become clear as my life changes more and more from the one I used to have.

I've had to take a little time to mourn the time that my H and I lost to bickering and fighting. Not sitting on the pity pot. But really looking with awareness on my part, like you are, to apologize to myself and plan what amends I wanted to make. I believe that moving forward with the plans that we have is an effective way to make amends to ourselves for what we gave away. Like you said, the missed opportunities. So I can move forward without resentment.