Hello all....
I have been divorced since Oct. of 2007, we were separated since 2006.

I have been doing well, got my life together, been doing ok in all aspects of my life.

MEANWHILE,my Ex has been sliding down a slippery slope financially... EXACTLY like when I first met him.

The difference? He is mad at me because I claimed the kids on my taxes, and he did not. Even though he gets them overnight only every second weekend, and I did not take as much CS from him as I could, since he agreed to not take half the equity of the house.

He apparently is in dept up to his eyeballs, and I do not know HOW or WHY he is, it is not my concern.
The only thing is that he called me and left me this message how he is going to have to pay in taxes this year, and how he is going to have to claim bankruptcy.... etc.

AND I FEEL BAD... I ALMOST (almost) wanted to pay his taxes for him.... but he is living with his GF now, and I do not see how he has NO money... He got a new car after we split up, I do not know if that is the problem... BUT....

I talked to him today, and I told him he CHOSE this, he CHOSE to not get a lawyer, he CHOSE to leave, he CHOSE to spend beyond his means.... and he was SO MAD at me.....he told me that he knows now why guys quit their jobs, and work under the table, and on and on, how they no longer see their kids.

I got MAD. I told him that he brought these kids into the world, and he needed to help provide for them. If he did not want to see them, then fine, just send the CS...

He left, but I felt a twinge of guilt. Like if I gave him some money that he would be ok... but then again, everytime I asked him to help me out, he was never there for me. Yet I was always willing to help him out.

It is a pattern that has been broken, but I still feel the need to jump in.

AYE!!! I annoy myself with this! I talked to one of my friends who told me," EX has always been about himself only. Why feel bad when AGAIN, it is about HIM only???"
Which is true. I just wish that I could lose the urge to "help", especially when I KNOW that it is NOT helping!

Sigh.

Hi Sadmo,

Your post reminded me of my WS, Mr. Gray. I have knowledge that he is doing the same thing he did when we were together that helped contribute to the demise of our good credit.

There have been a couple of times that I have felt bad for him, or started to.

The first time was when my Mom mentioned that maybe he was homesick. After waking up the next day with my shoulder injury (that he helped me get when he was stinkin' drunk and drugged out because I was trying to get him up so he wouldn't choke on his own vomit) was hurting badly for the first time in months and I had a monstrous headache.

I learned my lesson! When I started to have that feeling again, just a little bit, I chopped it off and dug out the roots.

I know where he's headed and it's the same place as yours.

I just want to say, don't feel guilty! Don't let him get to you! I know it's hard but you can do it. Chop it off and dig out the roots!

I'm not looking to any reconciliation in my case. (I doubt he will want to talk to me when they self-destruct. Even though he brought all of this on himself.) For all I know Mr. Gray and Slag are still living together and that's fine. They will have to deal with their hang-ups and problems and destruction because when I exposed I purged all of the pus from that boil. I put the responsibility for their A where it belonged, on their heads.

And like all WS's, they didn't like it. Aw, too bad so sad! LOL!

Anyway, I just wanted to drop in. You can give me the boot if you want. LOL!

Take care, Sadmo.

Charlotte

I know how you feel. My ex used to say I was the best thing that every happened to him. And he was right!

Too bad he chose to throw it all away.

If you feel like helping, find some volunteer work. There are lots of deserving people who need a hand.

LMAO, believer!

We had simultaneous postings!!

Great minds think at the same time!

heheh

That's precicely it...

If he's bad at managing his money its not your problem!

I'll bet he's streaching the truth a whole lot so you'll go easy on him and show him some mercy. The minute you do.... he'll do something stupid that will really piss you off like buy a boat for him and his new GF.

He made his choices and now he doesn't want to live with the concequenses.... too bad. Why should you pay for his stupidity?

If I were you I'd be pissed off that he's trying to manipulate me into feeling sorry for him.

Thanks everyone....

I just can be a bleeding heart sometimes, EVEN with the person that never was with me... my EX.

It does make me a little mad. Especially when he starts his talk about how he understands why men just walk away.... He even had the b@lls to tell me that his gf does not get ANY support from her kids fathers, and she does fine. I told him that she was stupid, plain and simple, and that I would never let the guy get off the hook like that. He sarcastically said, "well, good for you" I laughed. Amazing. I then told him that if his gf was doing so well, why doesn't SHE help him out. He told me she can't. So I told him I did not know what to say.

I am not going to give him anything, and it will suck for HIM. Not for me. I am doing ok, and I have a head on my shoulders that I use. Unfortunately, he does not seem to have one...

Hmmm. Interesting situation here.

I'm a man in your H's shoes, except for the fact that I'm the BH who didn't ask for any of what happened.

I find myself in financial ruin but not for the reason your ex has.

But, your H is the one who strayed and didn't get his head out. Let him suffer and eat pie he baked.

He created this situation by seeking someone other than his wife. Let him reap the rewards of his poor decisions.

You sounded like you were fair in your treatment of him in the D (then again, my ex feels the same way, despite keeping everything we owned except for a table that was falling apart and some of my bachelor furniture).

You're a fair woman. Don't feel guilty.

Perhaps you could arrange it so that you both claim one child each year?

SadMo, good to see you again. Thanks for sharing. You know what I thought when I read your post? Good thing that's not your problem anymore.

So he doesn't mind supporting his live in's kids, but he does mind supporting his own. Interesting.

He thinks that you should support your kids 100% so he can continue supporting his live in and her kids. Is this about how he doesn't like making waves with anyone but you?

Sadmo, when are you going to change your screen name I love how you stay a woman of integrity and your values stay the same regardless of his actions or your feelings. I'm proud of you for deciding not to follow his lead and take money from your household with your kids to give to him to squander.

To be honest, I'm really sorry to read your post. I'd hoped that he would hit bottom by now and revive a great relationship with you and the kids. Even if it came too late to revive the marriage and your good times together were limited to when you guys exchange the kids.

Is he at least nice to the kids?

Pom-
The reason that he is so poor is that he spent a LOT of money, money that he did NOT have foolishly... he was HIGH on being single....
I actually would consider letting him claim one child each year.... EXCEPT... every rime I REALLY, REALLY needed him to help me with the kids, he flat out would refuse. Two of those times were when I was at work, and our youngest was having severe asthma attacks. The babysitter could not get them under control, I was trying to leave work, and he was 10 MINUTES away from the house. I was 50 mins. away, IF I left immediately, which I was waiting for relief so I could leave. The pediatrician told me to take her to the ER, and I told him this, and he went to the house, walked my DD up and down the stairs, and determined that she was fine. AND HE LEFT. I rushed home, and I had to rush her to the hospital, where I was chastised about 'waiting so long'. We were there for 7 hours, and they finally got her into the clear. The second time, similar incident, except I was working farther away. This time our DD was admitted to a hospital for 2 days.

Both times, he did not care. He did not want to be bothered. I have also asked him to take them to some of their doctor appointments, so I would not have to miss as much work (my bosses were getting a little annoyed), and he refused. I had no one else that was willing to help me.

SO... like I told him, if he had been there to help me out, I would have relaxed it A LITTLE, and probably let him claim one child. BUT... considering that he is unwilling to help out at all, it does not make me want to help him out either, BUT, it makes me feel guilty!!! Silly me. I even told him as much... did he help more? No. There was a doctor appointment for my kids on Monday, and I asked him to take them. He said he would. Then I had to scramble and find someone to take them. My dad finally got them from my sitters house (Bless my wonderful Dad!). EXH called me later, claimed I never told him the time. It goes on and on....
Did not mean to vent... BUT... I am frustrated with what a selfish person he is.

Ears-
Hello!!! I am glad you responded to my post!
Thank you for your kind words... I SHOULD change my name, but this is how I am... once I become USED to something, it is hard to let it go!! LOL!

He is a good father, usually, when he is with the kids. The funny thing is that his gf actually seems like a pretty good mom to her kids, and she is good to my kids... she plans little outings, they have picnics, she makes little gift bags for them (from HIM, of course) for the kids for the holidays. So, that is good at least.

But it IS sad. He watches her kids all of the time, he is there all of the time for them.

And I kind of feel that he would be fine without the kids, but he is close to our oldest D. The little one, not so much. Which breaks my heart, for her.

We usually get along ok, just he started trying to get me to drop off the kids, pick them up, etc. and I finally had to put my foot down, because he was taking advantage of me trying to get along well. After the last incident with my DD, I told him that I lost all respect for him, and that I did not want to even act friendly to him at all anymore. He lost my respect. Ever since then, he seems MAD at me. And now the money thing came up. Of course THAT is my fault too.

But, other than that, I would never want to have a great R with him again, much less reconcile. He is TOO TOO selfish. I have dated a little, and there are guys out there that seem to have a MUCH better clue on how to be in a R. I am just hoping that I find one that I have IT with, when I am ready. Right now, I am TOO busy....

Thanks for your comments!

Sadmo, I have never posted to you before and I am not a board vet or even a regular here. But I think that you should not feel any guilt because of your ex's bad choices. You are not responsible for them. You are responsible for looking after your childrens interests and it is not in their interest to give out money so that your ex can waste them or support some other children. You are also responsible for looking after your own interests which includes not feeling guilty for something which is out of your control.

Also, please don't feel guilty for not letting him claim the children. He must show some responsible thinking and that he is 100% prepared to take care of them. I don't know if it is possible to explain that to him in some way. To me it speaks volumes that he did not take your daughter to the ER when she needed it. It is not about "helping" with the kids, it is about taking care of your own child as a responsible father.

WU-
I know, I really KNOW that I should not feel guilty, but sometimes I do....
That is why I was annoyed with myself.
I hear you, I hear MYSELF... I just sometimes get the guilt thing, and it won't let go!
But thanks for reinforcing what I know too... it is good to hear it from other people....

But, other than my silly guilt, I am doing great. I am glad to not be meshed in his selfishness any more. It is a GOOD thing....

Thanks for your input!

Is it guilt, or do you just feel sorry for him, and hate to see anybody suffering?

I don't really feel guilt when it comes to PWC needing things for his apartment, but the old relationship still has me thinking, "I could send some of DS's clothes over and leave them there, and just buy him some new ones." PWC can buy him clothes here and there, but I feel some strange need to HELP. I don't help him, but the urge is there. I'm pretty sure, as with all things, that will fade with time, too.

SL-
it is probably a combo of both... I hate to see anyone suffering, yet I know that he could have gotten more from me during the D...

I sometimes feel that I have to 'help' out people, and I now know when I should stop, because it is not benefiting them, or they take advantage... and I know that is what would be the case with him.

I know what you mean with the clothes and such. I was the same way. I would send clothes with the kids for the whole weekend, plus extras, and HE finally said, "what, you think that I do not know how to dress my kids?" And I stopped. He then started to buy clothes for them.
I hope that you are still doing well! It will get better.

Thanks Sadmo. I am doing well. There are some things that still haven't hit yet, but I know from experience what they are, and I've learned a lot about grief, so I know I'll be fine. I have tons to keep me busy at home and friends to go out with, so I won't be bored much.

I really do hate to see people struggle, but also have learned that we struggle for a reason, and we must sometimes struggle alone. PWC is not a lost puppy dog, and has told me so. He will take care of DS, and get him set up in his digs with DS's own stuff, so that DS won't have to lug all this crap back and forth.

MO, it was his choice to accept what he accepted in the divorce. I don't see how his decision was your fault at all. It was your job to ensure that you and your kids got the best shake possible, so IMO you did right by them and yourself.

What do you think about making friends with some neighbors and parents of your kids' school friends who would be willing to help in a medical emergency? I have a great SAHM neighbor who has been a great help to me, and I've been able to help her out, too.

I'm glad to hear that there are good things for your kids where their dad is concerned, too. But I totally understand that he isn't good "friend" material for you.

The best place for you to be is to get to the point where you don't expect anything and it doesn't surprise you for him to not act.

The worst part of this battle that goes on between exes is that the kids are caught in the crossfire.

It's as if the kids are in a lake drowning while the parents stand on the peer arguing over who'se fault it is that they fell in.

I'm sure my ex feels as you do about some things. I know that I feel that way about her.

There was one day where I was running a fever and was throwing up. I was overwhelmed and having a tough time taking care of the kids on one of "my" weekends with them.

I called the ex, expecting that she'd be willing to help, simply for the kids.

She didn't. So I found myself trying to find a way to manage.

This was over a year ago and a big lesson for me. Instead of being worried that the kids weren't being watched as closely as they should be watched, she worried about cancelling her plans with her new boyfriend and gave me a lecture about "being a parent".

It was a huge lesson. I learned from that day that I had to hire sitters or have people I could call to help because my ex would always see what I did as helping me when in reality it is helping the kids.

So now I have no expectations of help from her.

I called another morning because I was worried I might have strep. My mentality was that I didn't want the kids to be exposed to it if I did and felt I should go get a test just to be safe. I called and asked her if she'd be willing to take the kids while I ran to the clinic. The difference then was that I knew what her answer would be.

So I prayed I didn't have strep and took some pain killers and crossed my fingers. The kids did get sick, but it wasn't strep.

There was one day she made me leave the kids with her boyfriend after church when she was sick and trying to stay away from them. She much rather risked exposing them to her illness than put their needs ahead of letting me see them more. She would rather they be around a sick parent and exposed than think of their needs first.

I use these examples not to threadjack. I use it as an example of the petty squabbles that our kids get caught up by. They are the ones that ultimately suffer.

Saying that you would let him claim a child on his taxes if he helped you more is using the kids as a weapon.

Rise above that. Be the bigger person.

He's a scumbag. He doesn't deserve help. But I'll call a spade a spade and say that "I'd let him do this or that with the kids IF...." is using them as a weapon.

Learn to withdraw from the conflict and learn which battles are worth fighting and which aren't.

I'll give you one last example:

My ex called me one night to chew me out over the fact that my boys still drink a bottle at bed time at my house.

I could have gone 12 rounds with her about it. I simply asked her, "Do you have anything important that you wish to discuss?"

She said, "This is important. It's about the kids!"

She continued to chew me out about the bottle thing. I simply hung up.

I have accepted that she will do things that I don't agree with, which, in my opinion, hurt the kids. Moving them away from their dad, getting them pets and then taking them away, dissolving our marriage, moving a man in with her, and many other things are examples of things I've simply had to let go of.

Discussing them with her is a waste of time and breath and it doesn't help the kids because I'm not the one that will make her see the light.

I've accepted that I can only control the things I can control and that I can't influence her in any way.

My motivation is my kids. Doing what is best for them is the only criteria I use now.

So ask yourself this question, and it's a hard one:

Do you feel the children would suffer if their father was broke?

Would giving him the tax break help him financially to deal with the debt?

Would he still be an idiot in terms of finances even with the help?

These are all tough questions and I'm not telling you what the answers are. I'm merely encouraging you to think at a higher level and never ever use your kids as a weapon.

He's a cheating SOB and life will pay him back in spades for it. But he's also the father of your children and the children love him deeply.

The two people they love the most in this world can't get along and talk to each other. That's a terrible place to be. I've been there with my own parents and was very happy recently when they both stayed in my home, laughing and joking with each other and simply here to support me as I went to court.

It's very easy for us, as the betrayed, to have feelings of anger towards our WSes. But there comes a point where that anger has to be set aside and we must function at a higher plane than them in terms of our kids.

Never expect him to help you. Never expect him to want to help you. Be pleasantly pleased if he does so and simply function from a standpoint where you inform him of things he should know about, but don't expect him to act on any of that knowledge.

One final example of how the kids suffer because of parental spite:

My daughter got an award at school. I wasn't there because I didn't know about it because the school mailed the notice out to the home of record. My ex never told me and I didn't go.

My daughter excitedly told me about her award the next time she saw me. She told me about how mommy, grandma and granpa were there. She then asked me why I wasn't there.

I had no answer for her other than I didn't know about it.

So who is the one who suffered by me not showing up? It wasn't me. It was my daughter who wondered why daddy wasn't there to see her get her award.

That's an example of how my ex is not functioning at a higher plane in terms of the children's needs, but what can you expect from a vindictive mentality?

I could provide many other examples such as denying my parents the right to see the kids, and tons of others, but this is your thread and I would be threadjacking at that point and this is long enough!

I wish you the best and merely wish to provide you with something to chew on. It's not an attack so please don't take it that way.

ears-
actually, in my neighborhood, it is mostly people that work, or their kids are grown, and they work. There is NO ONE around a lot of the time.

I have made some friends of neighbors, but they are not people that I would really want to rely on, or have them with my kids. I am not THAT close to them.

I have my one friend, who unfortunately is 25 mins. away who recently became a SAHM, and she said that she would help out. I just hate to bother her, but I know I could if I needed to.

Thanks!

Pom-
No, I am not taking it as an attack. Not at all.

But, on the same vein, I am not using the kids as a weapon. I do not legally have to let him claim the kids on his taxes. My point to him was that if he had been there for them, I would be more willing to help him out. Not a weapon, just a fact. Kind of a 'you scratch my back, I will scratch yours' approach. But the medical incidents with the kids REALLY upset me. That he would not help THEM.

Would they be hurt if he is in financial ruin? NO. He lives with his gf, he can get another job if he had to, he can do a lot. But he chooses not to.
The fact of the matter is this: He keeps telling me that he is going to be 'forced' to claim bankruptcy. All of his friends have just done it, and he knows that I think it is tacky to do, when it was for frivolous things. And he thinks that if he claims bankruptcy, then he will not have to pay CS. Silly guy. So, he is trying to guilt me into feeling bad, and making him HAVE to claim bankruptcy. He is trying to manipulate me, and I am just not buying it. I am also the type that has my financial ducks in a row, I spend wisely, I always have savings, and he knows this. He is the opposite, which is why I handled our money.

I actually took less CS than I could have, knowing that he was having trouble making ends meet. He did not take the equity in the house. We agreed on this. Now he is acting like I duped him.

But, I know what you are saying, I just wanted to make myself clear, I will not use them as a weapon, I always let him know anything that he needs to (like with school, doctors, etc.) I would NEVER take that away from either him or the kids. I WANT them to know their dad, and I want him to know his kids. I do not sit there yelling at him in front of them, or anything. We get along ok. These are 'behind the scenes' conversations.

Do you know what I mean?