These inner feelings of conflict are the battle within yourself of trying to force something to be acceptable that isn't acceptable to you at all.

Pay attention to those feelings. They are telling you something that you should not ignore. Ignoring them is DENIAL.



Again...please focus your efforts on things you can actually control.

funny - gave him the letter. His response? He didn't get married to be checked up on. He made the conscious decision that he was not going to live like most married people and he didn't have to answer to me for anything or tell me anything that he was doing. He can do what he wants when he wants and he doesn't have to answer to me. I know what everyone is going to say, but I'd like something to empower me because I really don't think I've been the person who he really feels like going out of his way for so I need to change too.

If you're going to change, change for yourself. Make changes that you can be proud of and will help you feel better about yourself, not changes that you hope will make WH 'go out of his way' for you.

Your WH's attitude is IB and has no place in a marriage. If he wants to do what he wants when he wants and not answer to you, then he shouldn't be married, he should be single. Remember that you can't change him.

Ahhh, I see. So you think that if you are something better, he will deem you worthy enough to change for?

You are making the assumption that his poor choices have something to do with you. They don't. His poor choices are not because you are lacking as a person. He is making these choices because HE is lacking as a person.

Why are you looking for excuses to tolerate abusive behavior from him?

well it's obviously been a while, but at least I can say that some days he is now at least trying. He did say he screwed up but I still get no sense of true remorse and that makes it harder. And she is finally not working with him anymore. The thing is I still can't stop replaying everything that has happened in my mind. I know I need to because it's not helping but I haven't been able to yet. It still blows my mind that all this happened - and it doesn't help that the people he works with still thinks it's funny. To be a Christian organization and then think something that was anything but Christian is funny just is crazy. There are days that I just want to ask them to their face if it would be all right with them if I rubbed my leg across their husband's butt or if it was ok that I do other things that she did. Or instead of them going on their vacation this summer that I would be going with him and they wouldn't get to go - and that still doesn't equal a honeymoon or the week after you get married! So anyway, obviously I'm still angry so I'm looking for any suggestions as to how to talk myself out of it and how to get the instant replay to stop in my mind. Thanks again.

You're angry because you have subjugated yourself to him. You are treating your marriage as something he gets to give you. If he feels like it. Every human who gets treated like a doormat eventually gets angry.

I promise you, if he is this way about the marriage:
how is he in all other aspects of your life? I'm asking, because you are teaching your children to behave just like him - abusive and controlling and selfish - or just like you - meak, no self-esteem, asking to be kicked. Your children will turn out just like one of you, and from what I see, neither is a good prospect. Is that the legacy you want to give to them?

btw, this?:
Is straight out of every book on abuse I've ever read. He has you thinking that if you just try harder, just figure out what pleases him the most, just look prettier, give better SF, don't ask for anything, look the other way, keep from getting him upset with you, you'll be able to turn him around, turn him into the man of your dreams.

Here's some homework. Go to the library and check out "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men," written by Bancroft (a man). See if you don't start recognizing him in those pages.

You're worth more than this. If you don't establish some boundaries, why should he? Go to IC and learn to respect yourself, so your kids don't turn out the same way.

ok, yeah the truth hurts sometimes is all I can say. I think that's pretty much it to a T. The only thing really to add is that I do stand up for myself but it gets us nowhere other than an arguement or gets me told how inadequate I am or how I make such poor use of my time that I don't sufficiently get my work done. I get mad because I do see him doing this - and I know it's not all me. So I know it sounds stupid, but obviously I don't know how - how do you demand that someone respects you and demand certain things for your marriage from them? I try to tell him what I want and need but it doesn't accomplish anything other than me getting upset.

How? You leave. And tell him until he has sufficiently proven himself to you through counseling and other means, he doesn't get to have you in his life. This is Plan B, and so very many people just blow it off, and take whatever the WS is willing to give. And then they go back down that very same road. He probably is already having another affair, or at least keeping his eyes open, because you have proven, through your acceptance of him with such low expectations, that he can cake eat.

You, on the other hand, are falling further and further into the depths of abuse victim h&ll, from which you will never get out, unless you enforce boundaries through Plan B or, better yet, find someone who WILL love and respect you.

Standing up doesn't mean just saying what you think; it means holding fast to that belief until he is willing to concede that there needs to be a compromise. Every single thing you have said about him screams abuser.

Please read "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Bancroft (a man). You will recognize your H in there. And see the horror stories of women who stay with them.

Sorry for the 2x4, but you need to hear it.

And he's going to hurt the kids more when he betrays you again. Who cares if this is your second marriage or not? That's no reason to be in a marriage with someone who is cheating on you so soon into it.

Listen, if you believe he went on a trip alone with a woman for several days and "nothing happened", especially when she's so open about her feelings for him, then you are truly a lost soul.

You have a fog of your own. It blinds all of us. We don't want to believe that this person we love so much could betray us. But they do.

This will eat you up inside for years if you don't handle it and get the truth out immediately.

A person can tell you half truths that can seem like full truths and you believe them because you WANT to believe them vs having them deserve the right to be believed.

He's foglighting you. Don't fall for it.

Get out of your fog and protect your children. They will be hurt in the long run if he cheats on you again.

It's just hard to accept when you've already had a 2x4 and left that one and then to be back in it again. And really didn't see it this way because he doesn't scare me like the other one did. But I feel his constant criticism and it definitely fits. I'm ordering the book tomorrow (funny - he works at a bookstore) when the person who does the ordering is in. Read reviews and excerpts I found online - seems to fit exactly.

maybe i need a 4x4 . . . . . .

One of the big reasons second marriages fail is that people repeat the same mistakes made in the first marriages.

You're attracted to a certain type of man. Men like him are "exciting" and make life exciting. I'm sure he's a "bad boy".

Well, bad boys make bad husbands.

Granted, we're only getting your take on things, but you're repeating a pattern of abuse.

I use to do the same thing. I was (and in some ways still am) attracted to women with problems.

It's a cycle you have to consciously break.

You see, I'm sure that "nice guys" are boring to you. My therapist deals with women like you all the time. They're attracted to abusive and controlling types and find normal guys boring.

Well, don't be with someone just for the sake of being with someone. I know a few women who divorced and jumped right into the arms of another man right away, with no time to digest why their marriage failed and simply go on a journey to be alone.

You do need a 4x4.

And men don't respond to "hints". We only respond to 2x4s. I bet you'll get a different song and dance from him when you let him know you're serious about leaving if things don't change.

"Hints" aren't going to cut it.

There's a thread over in Emotional Needs called "Why Does He Do That" - it's by one of the people I recommended the book to, telling how helpful it is, it changed her life, etc. Well, another old poster came on, who was also in an abusive relationship, who we tried to help leave the man last year (he threw hot coffee on her, he strangled her, he kept her from leaving a room, etc.). Guess what? She's still with him!

That is how insidious abuse is. It strips away every shred of yourself that you once had, piece by piece, until you don't trust your own thoughts any more. He criticizes, belittles, makes fun of, ignores, threatens, manipulates, always keeps you guessing, keeps you wondering what you've done wrong, so that you come to trust only what he says. If you stay in it long enough, you come to a point where you CAN'T leave. There's no more YOU left.

I'm so glad you're going to read the book. Best of luck!

pom's right, but I'd add this:
Most women who choose bad boys do it because they were taught in family of origin that they deserve nothing better than abuse, not cos other men are boring. We subconsciously look for little, subtle signals that tell us this man will dominate us, like we deserve.

Plad,

OK, so what do you want and how do you plan on getting it? You see, doing nothing isn't going to change anything and your WH isn't going to change anything because he isn't the one who is unhappy with the status quo.

His attitude towards you and your marriage is so disrespectful and his indifference towards you is very revealing. He isn't going to respect you if you don't insist on it.

And by the way, his wayward mindset, lack of boundaries and sense of entitlement will lead him straight into another EA or PA, so in the end it won't matter if OW #1 is no longer in the picture.

Who

all I can say is he can be classified as a good guy. Thought he was totally opposite of the last which was definitely a bad boy. . . . . . . where's that 4x4?

Plad,




Please read the quotes from your earlier posts, and think about the above statement. What exactly is it about your WH that qualifies him (has earned him the right) as a nice guy?

Well yeah - i do sound kindof dumb huh? Guess though i meant on the surface and what he shows other people. He doesn't go out to bars, was brought up in a Christian home, is active in church, that kind of stuff.

Plad,

No you don't sound dumb! You know, very, very few people would have ever imagined that my FWH would ever be unfaithful.

The public face he showed to everyone was that he absolutely adored me. I thought he was the kindest most moral considerate man in the world ... and then I found out what he had hidden from everyone including me.

Even after all these years, I am still stunned that I was so completely fooled. Once you know, it becomes all too obvious.

There is nothing wrong with believing that your H is a good man, you just have to understand the difference between your husband and your wayward husband because they are not the same person.

Who

I can understand that - and that's part of why it's been so hard to get over. I never expected it from him in a million years - and it still blows my mind that that's how he treated me.