I am a FWS, 7 months post divorce. 17 year relationship, 1 step child (whom I now never see) and three children together. 1 instance of infidelity, 2.5 years of vile court proceedings (not initiated nor wanted by me....)....and it is over. I am not looking for sympathy...and know I will not get it...but I do want it known that I fought for my marriage for years...I grew fatigued, hopeless....all attempts to get consult were rebuffed...and I got caught up in a relationship. I immediately sought counseling, understanding I was in trouble. I am very committed to my family, and wanted to reconcile my feelings for their protection. Shortly after a couple of counseling sessions, my BS found an innocuous email and asked about it...My counselor and I had discussed developing more accountability and honesty, and I admitted that my attraction for this individual was there, that are marriage was in trouble, I had sought counseling, and we needed to enact some repairative work or we would sink. That is the last real conversation we ever had. I was served with very aggressive divorce papers shortly thereafter, including attempting to eliminate me from my children's lives...I am and always have been extremely hands on, involved...as a parent....I understand, especially through my reading on this site....the damage I have caused. And from the moment of revelation until now, I vowed I WOULD NOT be the source of any more unhappiness....There is no one in my life, hasn't been for a very long time. The divorce process, aggressive, vile, destructive, costly...never was desired by me....and I tried repeatedly to try and see what could be done to regroup...rejected every time. I felt I was being dragged along in a process that, once started, couldn't be stopped....

The divorce proceeded....and was finalized. Every day I feel it is a mistake....but I can't get my BS to consider the "ideal scenario", no matter what strategy I use. I have consulted with Steve....the only thing I get, if I get a response at all, is "it's too late." Is one mistake worth 17 years? I know the answer can be yes....I simply continue to live, a sort of perpetual Plan A, always trying to protect and preserve whatever is functional...neutralize what isn't. Should I stop trying to earn my BS back? I miss our family....I wanted reciprocity, kindness, empathy, nurturing...a partner....Out of my missing, I found the intimacy elsewhere...and I was wrong....I want another chance...have walked Plan A for the last 1.5 years....Should I simply accept?

HI - I've walked in your shoes. I know the pain and I'm sorry you are feeling so hopeless. I think I've come to realize that if our marriage had been fundamentally a good one, then we would have been able to recover the marriage. But our marriage didn't have a good foundation - addiction, anger, codependency, narcissism, low self esteem was our foundation. And so no matter how hard I worked to help my XH see that there was enough love for us to work toward recovery - it never happened.

I waited two years for him to come to his senses...but he didn't. I couldn't take it any more and I took steps to finalize the divorce. We've been divorced since December 2007 and we have dinner a couple times a month, text and have nice phone calls. He bought me an expensive Christmas gift and wants to be friends (he'd love to have sex but that won't work for me),

So every week we grow farther apart and every week I become less interested in recovering the marriage.

Hang in there - you can't control another person's feelings...you have to let it go. I know it hurts but you can't make him see the value in your marriage - either he does or he doesn't.

HopefulCis:

Thank you for your kind reply. You know, I took the day off today, pulled my lovely children from school for just a bit...a little "hookey" on a Friday afternoon to enjoy some peacefulness during a tour of our local Aboretum...sitting with them...on a blanket, sun shining...surrounded boy beautiful flowers...I felt alternately very sad...thinking my BS should be with us...yet trying very much to appreciate how beautiful my children are...how innocent...and how I played an integral role in having this whole thing blow up....

I just can't get past it...17 years...I served in the capacity has a supportive, devoted spouse....trying...trying...trying...to get passed the indifference that was displayed...downright cruelty...I couldn't find a way to get into the world of my BS....I failed with my mistake...Does the one mistake cancel out 17 years with such nuclear proportions? Family therapist Frank Pittman says no...it almost never does...so why?

I don't diminish the damage I caused...I accept it. However, I don't believe the mistakes made on the other side were less hurtful....And I am not trying to negate my behavior with a "but my BS did XYZ"...but I do believe the structure of our marriage started to crumble for years....and I begged for counseling....I continued the "status quo"just working, taking care of the kids, and trying to just keep things stable...thinking we would find a way somehow...and, in that classic way, my "incidental" relationship with an aquaintance in my industry grew inappropriately...

Does this mistake trump my BS's? Really? Even in the midst of the drama...I did everything my BS asked...discontinue...start fresh....You know what we were arguing about? Children...I wanted more children...WITH my BS...we had talked about it for years...There was just a time...a clear time...when everything I thought are marriage was... just STOPPED. I noticed that my BS became hostile, cruel, or...at it's best..indifferent. I knew I was in trouble that, following an emergency surgery, I was forced to drive myself home because my BS was "too busy." And I grew very despondent...because we had created this beautiful family that I thought was working so well (including my BS's daughter from a prior marriage....When my BS filed, the two of them left...and I have had no role in my step-daughter's life...whatsoever...this pains me because my decision to marry included deep thought in what I was taking on...the decision to raise...and love a child not my own...and I made the commitment and honored it...without question...Was at every dance recital, school play, parent teacher conference..field trips...you name it...) I am horrified at this...but have no idea how to fix it. She's in trouble now, too...and I truely feel I, as the disciplinarian and more assertive role when it came to these things, helped keep her on course...She's in trouble now...and I am afraid for her.

This divorce ironically came at a time when I was offerred a job that literally...was one in a million...Offered security, stability, an exciting move to an area we had always wanted to live...(My career is in law enforcement....and my offer was to work in a capacity with a large, well respected federal agency that would have meant so much with regard to my ability to contribute something to the world that was extraordinary)....The divorce papers came, along with an aggressive custody suit, and I was faced with a choice...leave the state and take a job that meant the world to me (and my BS knew this)....or my children. There was no hesitation...I called my "new" unit chief, and explained what happened. I wouldn't take the job.

What is it? I gave up the dream of my family, met my BS's needs as much as I could...was I resentful at times, sure...but I stuck...and then I didn't...and I am ashamed at myself...Why couldn't my BS work with the team? Why did I choose to slip... I don't value this....any of it...

But, watching my children....the pain is overwhelming because I don't want this for them. It isn't worth it....Yet, this one mistake, cost me my family. I know it can happen...reading the posts on this site....But, and I am going to catch %^&*( for this...but, I don't believe one mistake defines me totally...I have been served up...villified...humiliated....everything in my life destroyed...and I don't think I deserved an onslaught of nuclear proportions...I dont....and I don't understand the magnitude of the response...considering the person I had always been....How come I couldn't even secure an opening?

I am just sad...sorry for the long post...In any case, I appreciate your thoughts....thanks for your response.

Ok, you say that you appreciate my thoughts, so here goes.

You are very good at making your case. But I don't buy it. You remind me of 95 out of 100 men I've met who twist everything in their lives to 'prove' that they were innocent, good-thinking, misunderstood souls who just took one tiny little mis-step and are now suffering unfathomable difficulties as a result of that tiny, explainable mistake.

What didn't I hear? What your wife went through. Tell me about that. Prove to me that you actually cared, heard, and understood the utter devastation of the vulnerability she offered to you and which was destroyed.

I'm usually one of the more temperate persons here, I'm willing to hear what went wrong, who did what, etc. But what I see in your text is supreme re-writing of your story. Maybe you do it for yourself, so you don't feel guilty. Maybe you do it for us, so we will feel sorry for you. No matter. You are rewriting what actually happened, based on what looks best for you.

Let me know when you're ready to admit what you really did.

Well, I don't think I am trying to re write....I am trying to understand from all angles and history does matter. Be clear, I loved my BS so very much and and made very strong commitments early...to my BS and her/our child. I don't think the end defines our total relationship, only a part...and I would like to think this mistake doesn't wipe out 17 years...But perhaps it does and I am SOL and that's all she wrote. There were huge disappointments on both sides...that's all. We had great things, and some not...I don't think I am attempting to disqualify, but perhaps you are seeing something I am not and I def will think about what you said.

I don't defend my mistakes...I made them...I agree it was egregious...I agree it was hurtful. I would really like to know what should have been done differently? Ending it? Attempting to start over in a new place good for ALL of us? Getting into counseling myself, and soliciting my BS to join? Connecting with Steve...attempting to create the "ideal scenario"....What misstep have I made moving forward and what do you think is a good way to go now? If at all?

B;
I feel for you and I am sorry that you are going through this.
You do not have to prove anything to anybody other than your BS.
I know exactly what you are feeling right now I have been there done that.
One thing that is really hard to understand is that everybody has a free will, you can not force your BS to forgive you and come back to you.You say that you did ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING you could to restore your M right? If you TRULY feel that, then you should not be feeling sorry for you nor you should be feeling bad about yourself. I understand that you feel sad, but you should be feeling good about yourself thinking that you made your best effort, you gave it all. The fact that your BS was not able to forgive you is an issue that he has to deal with, that is between your BS and God.
If you TRULY repented and asked God for forgiveness, you are already forgiven, unfortunately there are still consequences to be paid for that.
I feel that you are still feeling guilty for what has happenned. Although the A was 100% your responsability, your BS was reponsible inpart for the state of the M before the A happenned.
Please ask God to teach you how to forgive yourself, until you do that, you will not be a restored person. Do not dwell on the past, or on the things that you could've done or should've done, that won't do you any good, you are only torturing yourself.
I think is time for you to heal and move on. I am going to tell you an analogy that a BS (yes a BS) told me one day.
You and your BS hurt eachother during your M with eveything that you did to one another right? That pain is like a ball of fire, he thew it to you and you thew it back at him. Well, if you keep on holding to that ball of fire what is going to happen? I think is going to burn your hands and that will hurt very much!!! It is better if you throw it away.
Well, all of these emotions (unforgiveness, bitterness, frustration, anger, desilution, betrayal..etc.) that one feels when is going through this A,D situation is like that ball of fire. What are you going to do? are you going to keep on holding to that ball or are you going to throw it away? It's your decision.
As well as is your BS decision to throw it or hold on it. If your BS decides to hold on to it then that is his choice but he can not say in the future that he is bitter or angry or whatever because of what you did. It was his choice to hold on to that ball of fire!!! He could have thrown it away!!
Please do not hold on to it yourself!! You did what you could!
Don't try to get people to understand what you are going through, they do not have to. Because of the fact that they have been BS themselves they are hurt(pretty understandable) and some of them (not all) think that every FWS has not truly repented for the A.
If everything that you say is true, then feel good that you did what your BS told you to. Maybe your BS will one day regret to have divorced you, maby not, you never know.
Remember it was his choice to end the M (for whatever reason, I don't care) it was his choice to not forgive you...not yours!!
Whether it was the right thing to do or not....I do not know....only God knows.
Please take care of yourself.

LD

LittleDoll, I have never experienced an affair, so I am not a BS trying to get back at WSs. I am, however, a pretty good student of psychology. Let me show you the attempts I saw in his posts to make himself look better and lessen the magnitude of his act and make himself the victim. Granted, his W could have chosen to work with him on the marriage; but it is widely said here - even by Steve - that the BS has every right to just walk away. What I haven't seen yet is why he wasn't getting the good marriage in the first place. I want to know why the marriage was so bad in the first place. If it turns out she's some cold heartless witch who was just using him, then I'll bow out. If it turns out that he helped cause the mess in the first place, I'd like to explore that further so he can learn how he contributed to his own divorce, so it doesn't happen again. Here are his words, his attempt to paint a victim.

1 instance of infidelity - So it only lasted a few minutes and you never saw that person again? Call it what it was, if it lasted 2 times, a week, a month, a year...it was an affair.

2.5 years of vile court proceedings (not initiated nor wanted by me....)....and it is over - It was likely vile to her, too, but you don't mention how it tore her apart.

I fought for my marriage for years... - So you were married to a woman who wanted out of your marriage, since you had to fight for it? In what way did you fight? Did she quit talking to you? Did she throw you out? If so, why? Why would she be so mad at you or indifferent to you that she would not want to be married to you?

I grew fatigued, hopeless.... - Using such words is an attempt to show what a horrible lot in life you had being married to someone who could tear you down, she literally drove you to affairage because you were so beaten down by her rebuffing your efforts. See how the words you use tell me what you're doing?

all attempts to get consult were rebuffed... - So you asked repeatedly for her to go to counseling with you and she refused? Did she pretend not to hear you? Did she say nothing was wrong? Did she say she had already given up and nothing would get better? What was her side of why your marriage was suffering?

and I got caught up in a relationship. - Using that word is an attempt to make you a victim, while still admitting the A. As though, you, weakened, fatigued rebuffed, you just couldn't help yourself, after the cold, heartless, unfixable marriage you'd been in. More words.

I immediately sought counseling - So you slept with another woman, woke up the next morning and called a therapist? You called it a relationship. So which was it? A one-night stand after which you immediately sought counseling, or a relationship? How long between the time you first slept with the OW and your therapy? You say that after 2 counseling sessions your wife found an email. So you were going to therapy - by yourself, as you said she refused to go - and THEN she discovered your affair because you were trying to develop accountability?


I was served with very aggressive divorce papers - Another attempt to show you as the victim. What a mean heartless woman to be aggressive in the way she divorces you. What exactly is aggressive? Taking all your money? You said 'eliminate' me from your kids' lives - how could she do that? Having the kids live with her?

And from the moment of revelation until now, I vowed I WOULD NOT be the source of any more unhappiness.... - Words to show how valiant and ethical you're being.

The divorce process, aggressive, vile, destructive, costly...never was desired by me....and I tried repeatedly to try and see what could be done to regroup...rejected every time. I felt I was being dragged along in a process that, once started, couldn't be stopped.... - More victim words.

I took the day off today, pulled my lovely children from school for just a bit...a little "hookey" on a Friday afternoon to enjoy some peacefulness during a tour of our local Aboretum...sitting with them...on a blanket, sun shining...surrounded boy beautiful flowers...I felt alternately very sad...thinking my BS should be with us...yet trying very much to appreciate how beautiful my children are...how innocent...and how I played an integral role in having this whole thing blow up.... - Who knows, maybe you just write that way naturally? If not, you're trying to paint this wonderful, sad picture of how tortured you are now.

I just can't get past it...17 years...I served in the capacity has a supportive, devoted spouse....trying...trying...trying...to get passed the indifference that was displayed...downright cruelty...I couldn't find a way to get into the world of my BS....I failed with my mistake... - So you're this honorable, steadfast man, suffering silently against cruelty and indifference, trying...trying...trying (puh-lease) to reach your wife?

Does the one mistake cancel out 17 years with such nuclear proportions? Family therapist Frank Pittman says no...it almost never does...so why? - Exactly. Why was she ready to walk away from you? What has she said in the past is why she was distant from you? If you've got a great reason, like you were this saint who showered her with love and attention and she just blew you off for no reason and hated you, then I can understand your confusion. But I repeat there has to be a reason she was distant to begin with. What was it?

I don't diminish the damage I caused...I accept it. However, I don't believe the mistakes made on the other side were less hurtful.... - What mistakes?

And I am not trying to negate my behavior with a "but my BS did XYZ"...but I do believe the structure of our marriage started to crumble for years....and I begged for counseling.... - So you literally begged her to see MC and she told you...what?

I continued the "status quo"just working, taking care of the kids, and trying to just keep things stable... - So you were the only person taking care of the kids? If not, why did you use that statement? To show that you do more than the average husband? She was creating instability and you were trying to make things better? More words to prop you up.

thinking we would find a way somehow...and, in that classic way, my "incidental" relationship with an aquaintance in my industry grew inappropriately... - Victim words.

everything I thought are marriage was... just STOPPED. I noticed that my BS became hostile, cruel, or...at it's best..indifferent. - Again, why?

When my BS filed, the two of them left... - So your 3 kids are your kids and not hers? Why else would she move out without them? I'm confused.

my decision to marry included deep thought in what I was taking on...the decision to raise...and love a child not my own...and I made the commitment and honored it...without question...Was at every dance recital, school play, parent teacher conference..field trips...you name it...) - Selfless prop-up words.

my offer was to work in a capacity with a large, well respected federal agency that would have meant so much with regard to my ability to contribute something to the world that was extraordinary).... So you're really a humanitarian more than just a plain old law enforcement officer?

The divorce papers came, along with an aggressive custody suit, and I was faced with a choice...leave the state and take a job that meant the world to me (and my BS knew this)....or my children. There was no hesitation... -
I called my "new" unit chief, and explained what happened. I wouldn't take the job. - Victim words, selfless words, you've given up your dreams because of her heartlessness.

but, I don't believe one mistake defines me totally...I have been served up...villified...humiliated....everything in my life destroyed...and I don't think I deserved an onslaught of nuclear proportions...I dont....and I don't understand the magnitude of the response...considering the person I had always been....How come I couldn't even secure an opening? - Which is why I'm trying to work with you here. Something made her unwilling to work with you. Something convinced her that you are not worth saving or sacrificing for. And from what you say, it happened long before the affair. That is what I'm trying to get you to see. Unless she's just some nut job who just used you to get children, something happened. You need to look at that, so you can see your part in that, so you don't do it again. If you do this discovering - and fixing - there is always a possibility that she will see that you are what she wanted to begin with, and re-establish relations with her.

Granted, she may just be messed up herself, given two failed marriage, and you were screwed before you got married. But you'll never know if you don't look into it. And stop using the pity-me-cos-I'm-such-a-martyr talk so that you can get to the real you.

Dude...what cat said.

Your posts indicate that you are still not accepting full accountability for your choices and actions.

Affairs are simply NOT permitted in marriage. Period. For some (I'd like to believe "most"), the affair is unacceptable.

You shot yourself in the foot. Deal with it.

Yeah, I'd say it's past time to give it a rest and accept the consequences of your actions.

Did your wife's XH cheat on her too? That might explain a lot. Fool me once...

I think that you may be missing the question cat has...

Something was already gone when you had the A. It sounds like your W was angry/hurt/despondent BEFORE your A. What did you do to try to work on THOSE problems? Or, did you just react to them by finding another woman? There must be reasons why your BW was so unhappy to begin with. It sounds to me like the A was the straw that broke the camel's back, but not the first straw.

What other things happened BEFORE the A that created the environment to allow an A and to disallow her ability to recover?

When you can answer those questions, you might understand more of WHY she is not willing to reconcile.

Ok maybe I'm reading and seeing something else from this but it seems to me that his ex took the loaded gun he handed her and used it to finished off their marriage, I know that cheating is wrong and NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT to take that action to hurt their family.

But for her to go full steamed ahead with the one/two punch of a divorce when he claimed that he was attracted to another woman and that their marriage was in trouble seems to me she was just looking for an out herself.

He told her the truth instead of lying to her he was in IC and was coached by him/her for being honest and truthful to his spouse only for her to file on him, only heand his ex-wife knows what state their marriage was in during and before this.


Sorry, but I do not see him making excuses or justifying, in his post but where his mindset was when this occured in his marriage.

That's what I was trying to say. There had to be something wrong before the affair. He says he'd been asking for closeness for years, so there was a disconnect, which 'led' him toward affairage. But the million dollar question - was she just some cold witch who never really loved him? Quite possible, maybe she just needed a sugar daddy; which is why I asked him for more details.

But if that's NOT the case, then he pretty much had to have had a hand in her coldness, her eagerness to jump ship; so what was it? I'm asking him to look inside himself and find out.

MB is all about reinventing yourself. If he is honest with himself, and not just trying to lessen the impact of what he did, he has somewhat of a chance of removing whatever LBs he may have been doing that may have caused her to withdraw. Once he does that, there is always the possibility that she will notice, and see the man she married again, and be interested in a reconciliation. But if he continues to just cover for himself and describe how selfless, fatigued, and earnest he is, he will never achieve that introspection - and grow.

Now, like I said, if she was just a golddigger, or something else wrong with her, this is all moot. But if not, wouldn't it behoove him to improve himself? Even if he doesn't get his exwife back, he'll be a better person for a possible future relationship. But you never get there if you don't stop with the 'oh I'm such a selfless saint' act.

blackntwrk,

I agree that "it's too late" in the sense that it's too late to go back but why would you want to? If the situation was bad enough that you went outside the marriage looking for warmth and affection, why would you ever want to go back? There were problems in the marriage that led you to be ripe for an affair.

However, I think it's not too late in the sense that you can build a new and better relationship with your ex. What you're currently doing is not working. I think you may need to start by backing off for a while and quit trying so hard. She's been badly hurt and betrayed by your words and actions and it will take some time but if you are serious about it, that shouldn't matter. Now is the time for action, not just words. She needs to SEE that you are a different man than the one she decided to divorce. Focus on yourself and your kids for now.

At the least, you can develop a successful coparenting relationship with her.

Hi All...

Thanks for all the posts...I have been reading and thinking...and appreciate all the comments.

To cat, I wish I could answer all your questions. Let me start by saying I am not trying to paint myself as anything other than a total individual, with both assets and deficiencies...I don't own the fact that this act defines me. There is a wider view that falls outside the scope of this portion of our lives together, one in which I brought a lot to the relationship. I do accept I committed an act that is against whom I am and what I believe and I am trying to 1)reconcile that with myself and my family and 2)educate myself so that it doesn't happen in the future. I may simply have blown it and that's it. I don't believe my BS made my choice for me...

There are a lot of issues in this marriage that I WISH I had answers to...There was a subtle but clear decline. My BS seemed to experience a shift in direction, one in which I didn't understand. For some reason, I could solicit the information from my BS. And I always had before. I was very concerned because my BS wasn't talking. I of course asked, but I seemed to get only vague answers of "I don't know" ...I don't know if my BS really KNEW...only that there was some internal angst there....Involvement in us (and our family) decreased, participation decreased, intimacy became non-existent, goals shifted (especially with re: to increasing the size of our family, careers, and the parenting of our daughter (my step) whom was experiencing a host of difficulties). We had difficulty resolving on our own...we would outline the disagreement...and it would sort of "hang" there...action steps to enhance the relationship were put out there...but no actual work got done. Knowing I wasn't able to support my BS through whatever was happening for us, I suggested counseling. My BS didn't want to go...

So, when I refer to status quo, I think I got to a point where I just hoped it would "pass". You know, you just fall into a pattern of walking through your day...but, the disagreements were becoming life altering...and I started to become angry and more confrontive with re: to the inaction to get back on track...I am a "get it done" type of person...and I exhibited a fair amount of impatience with what I saw as a serious deterioration in the state of our family...At this time, I DID feel as if I was being treated badly and unfairly, though it doesn't excuse what I did. Never will. I KNOW this cat...and I know I contributed to the decline as I was not handling my BS well...there virtually was no communication at this point...other than the "I don't really know"...

The marriage grew more and more difficult You only have my side, and it's only my perspective...and I know where my weaknesses were, now, looking back...including defensiveness and withdrawal from my BS. I felt like I couldn't move with my BS...if I couldn't help, I thought, let's get some. BS wouldn't go, so resolve to continue to try to work it...kind of a perpetual spin going nowhere. I was extremely frustrated...and really sad. Dreams were coming to an end for me, and I am sure for my BS because I clearly didn't seem to be the source of happiness, unfortunately. And yes, I became resentful...

I was in a space where I was contemplating a separation...but, I was thinking through..."is it bad enough"...these are some issues, from my perspective only...but it can give you a flavor of what I believed was happening...

1) a fair amount of disparagement entered this relationship. I was referred to as "white trash" frequently. Seems harmless except I came from a humble background, my BS from significant wealth. (No cat, my BS didn't marry me for my money A class difference was present in this marriage, and I felt like I was made to feel it every day with complaints that I didn't make enough as compared to my BS's family (we humanitarian, law enforcement types tend not too...it's the satisfaction in the job, cat, and yes...it is true as evidenced by my community involvement and choice of careers designed to HELP people)....

2) cruelty and indifference...upon learning about the upcoming birth of my son, delivered at a family function with my parents, our friends...I made the announcement...to the great delight of my family (and yes cat, I do write this way...sorry if it offends)...and my BS added, "but it isn't yours. Just kidding." Around the same time, and knowing my growing family needed more protection...esp. in the line of work I am in, I consulted a life insurance specialist to discuss options. At the table, together, my BS informed the agent it was a silly conversationt have because I was an "economic liability...not making enough to make it worthwhile." I think you get the point. These commments, and they were FREQUENT were followed by a "just kidding"...but they were caustic and did have an effect. After recovering from a difficult surgery, my BS couldn't find the time to pick me up from the hospital...plans. Involvement with the kiddos declined significantly...and we spent a lot of time doing things, without my BS. My job afforded me the luxury of being present a lot...so I WAS and AM involved a lot....but it was just weird. From decorating the tree at Christmas, to heading out to a movie....couldn't get my BS on board.

3) Disagreements about expanding our family. I am an Irish Catholic, we like em' big! We spoke a lot about this prior to marriage, and I believed we had reached an agreement of 6. And, it was important to me...more important than you can know. I simply love kids and wanted a life with a bunch of them in it. After my son was born, my BS said "I don't want any more." Now, I was trying to understand...and we had three of our own and one of hers...but I felt like this shift in course was unfair as we had a prior agreement. I also grew resentful because I felt like I assumed responsibility for her child, and now I was being cheated. There...honest, but out there. I fought against this feeling and KNOW I worked hard at loving my step-daughter as my own and caring for her...my resentment was extended to my BS. It was a great source of upset...and compromised our sexual intimacy because it became a power struggle...me wanting, my BS using birth control...

4) Major disagreements re: the parenting of my BS's daughter. I believed there was an abdication of responsibility when it came to her, and she was losing ground and getting into trouble. I felt a pretty classic "splitting" scenario was occurring, and I just became the giant ***hole. I was the "no you can't go out at all hours,use drugs and alcohol, skip school, and generally act disrespectfully" and my BS was the "see ya' later...have a good time". I had no power to parent, or discipline, and the things coming into the house were troublesome. I, of course, wanted to keep things smooth for the other, little guys in the house. Now, my BS isn't aware of what is happening with her...because of my connections and my prior involvement, I know my step is involved in drugs and alcohol...and I am worried about her. Even my BS's ex and I have begun to talk and share concerns. The concern made greater by the fact that the ex-spouse has addiction issues...I have shared what I know...only to be met, now, with silence. And this one is hard for me...I spend 16 years parenting this child...and I have been kicked out of her life summararily....as if it never mattered.

5) Career: around the time of my involvement with the OP, I was offered a position, out of State ( a place we had always wanted to move, actually)....When I applied, my BS was all for it. My BS's position could be transferred...it increased my salary to more "acceptable levels"....offered security...life in a beautiful area...It came at a time when we were really struggling...and I thought it was an opportunity for a fresh start...and I really thought, since we weren't going to have any more children, maybe this was a way for me to have some joy in a career that could overcome some of the other things going on in the marriage. I explained that the OP was history, that getting this distance would be good for us, we could start over, I could meet needs for more $ coming in....I got the D papers 3-weeks later.

As for my involvement with the OP. Started through my work...friends, although different but related industry. I started enjoying seeing the OP a little too much when I did..which was infrequently. Started to get to know each other...still considered it friends....OP asked to stay for a drink after a work-related function in which that person had been invited....and ended with a kiss...and then a few more. I got in my car, and my thought was, "I am in trouble." I was completely captivated...A friend knew of a local therapist with whom I went to speak...and I relayed what had happened. I didn't reveal my attraction to my BS right then, which probably was a mistake. I thought, if I could process this, and settle where I was, then I could take this information to my BS and we would deal with it then. She started educating me about LB's, the nature of infidelity, how to manage it...

After our second meeting, the infamous text came through. It truly didn't really say anything, but I said, after coaching from the therapist, that our marriage was in crisis and we had a real problem because of my attraction to this person. I wanted to discuss, in conjunction with the therapist, what was happening. Silence.

However, a swirl of destructivness was on its way. My BS sent letters to my boss alleging I engaging inbehavior "on the job" (untrue)...which resulted in an investigation. Dismissed because it was baseless, yet...when you ring the bell....The exposure started...calling friends, colleagues, neighbors....My parents were told, while my BS was drunk ( an issue we struggled with over the years..not an alcoholic...but a bad example to my step who had a parent with an addiction problem) at my daughter's birthday party. The D papers were filed pretty soon after I disclosed...seeking full custody on the grounds of adultery etc...etc...etc...I basically was supposed to take my car and go. Joint accounts emptied, including one containing an inheritance from my grandparents...I had put my BS on the account in case something happened to me...I learned of this when I went to buy shoes for my kids for school and the account had a balance of 0. And it got worse from there. And then she and my step were gone...

My first priority was to address the myriad of legal issues that had developed...I was forced to hire an attorney to address timelines....and..I was pissed. I really was...and I was scared to death of losing my kids. So, it began...I met my BS at one point...said the OP was history...let's go to Virginia...it will be okay...start over...don't do this....this was a great opportunity to just settle down...The threat of the loss of my kids was enough...no one was worth it....I wasn't going to be a part time parent...My BS said, "why would I do that." I said it would be good for us to get distance from this place, the OP, and just go...my BS said no. I was crying at this point...which I don't do normally...and I said...we need to go...give me the job...just give me the job..it will save me...save us...I was so sad...I just wanted to go, get out...and hold on to the kids I did have...the rest didn't even matter....just stay together with the kids and it will be okay....but I needed something, I felt...and the job and the family would be enough...if my BS and I could work toward something...even better..."no."

Over the next year or so, the court proceedings dragged on...i of course had no money with which to fight...the case is 200k in legal fees right now. The "social studies" happened (gross, vile, esp. for me...3 trials...all mean to villify me....but, my OVERALL reputation stood for something....as it should of. Some of the other things, too lengthy to go into here...actually backfired. I rec'd custody, my BS visitation. Less than my BS would have gotten had we just mediated it and moved on, if that is what my BS really wanted...

Now, in my conversations with Steve, during the trial(s), I made a second mistake by re-connecting with the OP. That certainly didn't help matters...and my anger got the best of me. I felt like, well, you left, filed for D, whatever....I was just tanked.
Coaching with Steve showed that I had to re-group, re-initiate a Plan A, and just continue to work it...see what happens. I did do that...up until and after the D.

Which is where find myself now....it just nags at me. This isn't right...the kids are hurting...my step needs help....I'll never have more kids, my career and life are in ruins...I would put up with anything, I feel, just to try and turn this...because I feel like the BS I married is still there somewhere...or I'd like to hope. I didn't like how the relationship developed...and I do feel like there was destructiveness there...My mistakes involved impatience, demandingness, falling into power struggles...not dealing with loss well, failure to protect us all, ultimate withdrawal...not responding to the D process well....

Not sure if any of this can guide your thinking....let me know...

Hi again...this board is hard for people like us...but we stay because we want to learn, we want to repent and we want another chance.

It's always hard when people say "you blew it" and "you did the worse thing possible" - because we know they are right.

When I read your post I recall a private message I got after I told another board that I had come clean with my H. The message was - "you did the right thing" and "if your marriage was good before the A - it can be good again". That stopped me cold, because I was so hoping for this terrible event in our lives to be a defining moment where we would recommit to each other BUT there were so many problems prior to the A and it wasn't good and maybe was never "good" in the sense it was a loving and supportive marriage.

You sound like me - you soldier on, you don't want to fail, you love your family - even when it's not perfect. I fantasized about separation and divorce for years prior to the A - I was afraid and it made me too sad and I hated failure.

And in my desperate state, I did the worse - I let another man (really so inappropirate it makes me look like a nut case - which I think I was) seduce me with words - and the comfort of feeling cared for and loved (false to the core) made me do the unspeakable...

So now I get to decide how to live the rest of my life. Do I want to spend it in paralizing regret? Sometime I feel some posters here would like that....
But I hope to emerge a better person. I'm 3 years post D day - 4 months post divorce. I work very hard to be nice to my XH - our divorce was amicable as I wanted him to see the best in me.

But the one thing I know for sure - my husband will never forgive, he himself will never come clean, and our relationship is/was unhealthy. So even though I still love him, and wish we were not apart - I've got to believe the he doesn't love me enough.

So my friend....love your children, love your work, love your faith, love your life - the hurt does subside... and I think you're right - she was looking for a justification to leave the marriage.

Take care
Cis

Sometimes I think that people are looking for a good enough reason to end the marriage and almost universally, the only socially acceptable reasons for ending a marriage are abuse, addictions, some forms of mental illness and infidelity. From what you describe, your wife had probably already emotionally left the marriage before your A. All you did was hand her a 'get out of jail' free pass.

Let me explain....when my marriage started to tank and things got nearly as bad as you describe, there were times when I almost wished that my husband was having an affair (and please understand that I am not minimizing the pain that BS's feel - I won't wish that on my worst enemy.) The reason that I would sometimes vaguely wish for this is that it would allow me to leave the marriage as the 'victim' so to speak rather than the leaver. So yes, I was hoping to abdicate responsibility for choosing to end a painful marriage.

Of course I realize how naive and immature this thought was - although I do know it is a normal thought process for some people who feel 'trapped' in really bad marriages.

The point I am trying to make is you are trying to understand why she decided to end the marriage over your A without giving it another chance. That, of course, was her prerogative. But the good people here are testimony to the fact that a lot of BS are so committed that they are willing to slog through the pain to recover their marriages. The reality may be that she was looking for a reason to end the marriage and the A gave her the ammunition she needed. So maybe the affair was the straw the broke the camel's back but it wasn't the sole reason for her ending the marriage.

Should you stop trying and accept? I think at a certain point it is counterproductive to your life to hold onto a false sense of hope. As pointed out, accepting responsibility for your part of the demise of the marriage, learning and applying the MB concepts and focusing on becoming a better human being are all things we do for ourselves. So to that end, I would say never stop trying but as for hoping she will change her mind...you will eventually have to decide that it is time to let go and move on.

Thanks for more explanation. It makes it easier for us to see what went on. I agree you got railroaded. She wanted out, she stopped liking you years before, and you just handed her the way to get out without making HER look bad. If you look on Emotional Needs, you'll see quite a few men in your position (pre-affair), where the wife withdraws and the men are stuck scratching their heads. Look for gabagool's thread, for one. You'll probably never know what you contributed to her lack of love, the way you describe her, but please realize that it's highly unlikely that it was just some mental deviation on her part. Something about you turned her off. If I had to guess based on the little we know, it would be that (1) you didn't live up to her expectations - when she was 'in love' with you, she thought she could get over her disdain for your lower-class status, but she was wrong. And (2), if I had to guess, your need, not your desire but your need, for 6 kids, probably had a big big effect. People from upper class societies, from what I know, simply don't do that. They have 1 or 2 kids; more than that makes them look like...well, like lower-class citizens. Sad but true. I'd bet that your strong need for that many kids just personified for her how wrong you were for her.

I would think all you can do at this point is be grateful you've got your 3 kids to bond with and make the best life possible for them.

at this point in time, you should accept. . . work on yourself, be the best father to the kids that you can be, and focus on learning from your mistake. What you are missing is that as an equal adult, your X had at any time, the ability to decide to divorce, without a good reason. . . my X's were, "I talked about money too much", quoted from my daughter. . . If i tried to talk about money, investments, retirement, etc, my X refused to discuss. . . she should have told me from the beginning that money was a non discussable topic. . but she didn't, she made up whatever rules she wants to live by.

So, i suggest that you start to accept reality, and that even in a good marriage, a spouse can leave for a better marriage. .. its a free country, just expensive at times. the other point to remember is that some people, as you read on here, have black and white views of life, actions and reactions. You may not, I don't. some people do marry again after divorce and infidelity. . . there are infinite possibilities, just most have very, very low to infinitessimal probabilities. In your case, the probabilities are very small so acceptance is most likely the easier path to a fully healed life. . .

good luck.

wiftty

Thanks you guys. I think I am going to continue in counseling. You know. We had everything. I just can't get out it out of my head. You know? My BS's ex had a substance abuse problem, and was neglectful to our daughter. To the point police were called. My BS, to this day, has a sort of twisted involvement with this individual. It used to bother me, and I spoke much about this. Lot's of "closed door" phone conversations about how the individual's life was screwed up with the latest crisis. I asserted myself and said, really, unless it's about our daughter, then these intimate conversations were unnecessary and frankly bothered me. Hard to imagine I didn't have at least a leg up on this person...at least have a conversation. Any way, I could go on.

I am confident enough to know that, if what cat says is true, despite the fear, my humble origins and "simple" career. does not guarantee a life of squalor...and believe it or not I could hold a conversation with a Senator and choose the right fork at a formal event. I can distinguish between John Singer Sargent and John McCain. What was SO WRONG?

What shocks me the most is I cannot understand the destructiveness. I understand the "exposure" strategies...but Steve said they need to be coupled with the Plan A...he thought perhaps someone was giving bad advice to my BS. I had already spoken to my Mom. A real touchstone, that one. Told her where I was at. She told me I should be ashamed of myself and get my head straight! We talked a lot, and I shared my perspective. She grew more worried....Mom's and son's. In any case, she already knew, so it wasn't a big revelation. She was extremely upset that these allegations to the Chief threatened my career...

I believe I have PTSD. Everytime I see legal paperwork. My BS's phone number pop up. I want to throw up. I have spent the last 2.5 years fighting to remain a Dad...and it wasn't easy. I prayed a lot then...for forgiveness, mostly, for my family, always. Nothing else really matters. I just didn't want to lose my kids. My lawyer told me I was an idiot for being honest. I think my honesty is what saved me. And always will.

I have a question. When all of this happened, my BS told my step daughter. Most of what she said was untrue, though of course the damage has been done. This also may be a consequence I have to live with. I just told her that I loved her, that BS and I would deal with what was in front of us...My relationship with her was on shaky ground anyway...as the disciplinarian I wasn't the favorite...My counselor said not to reveal all the gory details, simply reassure her. This hasn't worked. She basically has told me to &^%# off....I continue to put it out there that she can come to me if she needs me, I am available...I also have confronted her on what I know (drugs and alcohol) and coached her to go a different way. Is there a way to salvage this? I of course worry when my guys are there with them because I know she is under the influence...and it scares me to death.

And, what do you advise telling my little guys one day? They are pretty little yet....just be honest?

I really didn't want much. and I am so sorry for it all....

Hon, your SD really needs a moral rock. You can become that for her, but you will have to be it...from afar. That's cool. With a D17 and knowing all about all her friends, they are absorbing EVERYTHING! They may not acknowledge it - yet - but they are listening.

Our best friends installed locks on their windows...to keep the daughter from sneaking out at night! We tried to tell them it wouldn't work, they wouldn't listen. Ten years later, after she sold all her stuff for drugs and to fly to Hawaii with her 'true love,' she remarried a nice guy. But it was the stability her stepfather (our friend} exhibited, the friendship we extended, and the patience we all exhibited, waiting for her to realize her own mistakes.

Bottom line, be the STRONG, SMART, CORRECT one in her life. Eventually, she will see the truth.

As for the young'ns? Just set a good example. That's what matters most. That and unconditional love.

That is soo true. I agree.
And also, you need to communicate to your guys, talk to them a lot. They are going to need your presence, your love and your advice more than ever as they start feeling your BS absence. And never say anything bad about your BS infront of them I don't care what she did, she is still their mother, and that is the way they see her.
It is good that you want to keep going to your counseling sessions, that will help you a lot. Now, it's time for you to take care of you. I know you can not stop thinking about her and everything that has happenned but don't dwell on it too much, instead, focus on whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things (phillipians 4)
Take care of your guys and take care of you.
Blessings
LD