I need some advice. WH called asking if I would watch the kids on his days with them because he has to go out of town because of work. I said sure no problem if it is work related. I also said that I would not if it was to go out of town with the OW. He of course got angry. I stated nicely that I would not help his affair in any way but if it is truly work realted I would be glad to help. He got a bit defensive and said forget it he would get a nanny. I said if that's what you want. But I would definately help if it is work related. I stayed calm and even said that it would be helpful if he could show me proof so that I would feel better about it. He wasn't happy..said he had a bad week and now this. I said perhaps we can talk about later when you're in a better mood. First...I'm in a very weak Plan B. I'm trying to be stronger. My question is...if we are seperated do I have the right to ask him who he is going with and ask for some sort of documentation from work proving it? Our last conversation about us was that he's not coming home right now...I asked ever coming home and he would not answer...then answered I'm not ready to come back home right now. Asked again and he said not right now. I then said if he was going out and being with OW then perhaps I should do the same. He replied it would bother him if you went out with someone else but I can't tell you not to because you'll say I'm holding you back. I said why can't you just ever speak the truth. He said it would bother him if I went out with someone else. Anyway, what should I do watch the kids no questions asked or do I ask for some kind of proof?

Ani,

Honestly, you are not in Plan B at all. You are talking relationship stuff, and openly discussing his A, and OW. This is not even close to dim, much less dark.

You need to know this, so that you can work your Plan A, if that is where you intend to stay. In Plan A, you would not be trying to educate or manipulate him, either. As a warning, you are prolonging his A by being a corner in their triangle. I say, EXTRACT YOURSELF!

At this point, he IS going to see the OW, so accept that, and saying you won't take the kids won't stop him. Either take the kids or don't. Don't explain yourself, and don't try to manipulate him.

In Plan B, you would either take the kids or not, you wouln't attach stipulations to it. Now, if you believe that him keeping the kids will hinder his affair, you are underestimating a wayward.

You have not done enough work to detach from this, Ani. You haven't been dark at all, therefore, you've never really entered Plan B. If your WH got your Plan B letter, then he is disrespecting you left and right, and you are allowing it by this behavior.

Ani, pick a plan and do it, not halfway, but as strongly as you can muster. You are losing ground here, for personal recovery, and marital recovery. You are also possibly prolonging the time before you enter recovery, by playing into his hand, playing games. This is a no win situation.

You have the power to make a better life for yourself here, and you are refusing to make it.

Silent- Thanks for responding. I know what you are saying. It is so hard not to talk to him. I feel like I'm the one in withdrawal. I feel better when we talk. I know it's not helping matters. I find it hard to detach. Our anniversary is coming up and it so happens it is the week he will be out of town. He still denies being with OW. Still not sure if he is or isn't. I don't want to go back to the days of checking up. I know I'm past that stage at least. I guess what makes everything so difficult is that I feel like my WH always leaves the door open in our marriage. At this point I'm not sure if he is in some sort of withdrawal or if he is still with OW. He does state he doesn't want to come home ..right now. I know that when I talk to him that I'm meeting some of his needs. I guess he's meeting some of mine too. That's why I find it hard to stop talking. I still feel like there is hope even after all this time. I just want to do the right thing. You're right, I'm not in any Plan. At this point because I don't know if he is with her or not I don't know what Plan to be in.

Ani,

I don't know what to tell you. I also am not trying to be cruel, here.

You sound exactly as you did the last time you posted. YOU are not changing the dynamic. He remains the same. At this point, ASSUME he IS with OW.


Yuppers, it's called cake eating. My WH did that too, along with most WS's. They are hedging their bets, making sure SOMEBODY's door will always be open. I don't know if it's subconsciously that they do this, but many of them do.

Ani, take some time to read the threads on here; your husband is no different than most WH's. When you single him out and make him DIFFERENT or SPECIAL, or your case DIFFERENT or SPECIAL, you start guessing at what to do.
If you recognize that your husband is wayward in much the same way as all the rest, you will see how the Plans can work.

You've already done PlanA, now you are in Plan DOORMAT. YUCK!

Yes, you are going to suffer some withdrawal, but you'd be surprised how much stress you avoid by avoiding the wayward.

I dunno. I can only say that your current plan will equate to more of the same treatment as you are receiving now. You are allowing it to happen. You are showing your husband that he can treat you like this, because you haven't taken a stand.

I think you need to get angry here, Ani. This man has ripped your family apart, irrevocably hurt you, beyond reason, and you are letting your FEELINGS decide what you should do. Think smart, reread the material here. Reread SAA, call the Harleys, get a solid course of action in place.

You are floundering. You have been like this for months. You are drawing out your agony, when you could be healing.

Silent

See, I don't understand that at all. By that I mean I DON'T UNDERSTAND. Now, the husband calls, with an obvious lie or he won't have gotten ticked off. She tells him. Yep, I watch the kids FOR WORK, but I wouldn't help this affair. To me, GREAT! PERFECT! I don't see manipulation at all. Manipulation would be "Yeah, I'll watch the kids, ONLY and ONLY IF......." But shes basically "not helping this affair" which is what she should be doing. Whether or not he finds someone else to watch the kids has nothing to do with her.

How should she have handled it? If shes in B and the husband calls, just hang up??

Thanks.

If she is in plan B, GG, she shouldn't be having a conversation with her husband. They should be communicating through her intermediary on this or any other point that needs to be discussed.

She doesn't hang up... she never picks up.

Caller ID??

Ani, as silent pointed out, you are going to go through withdrawl. You have realized how uncomfortable that is. What you are going through is what your WH is trying to avoid. He doesn't want to have to go through the withdrawl from OW or from you and continues to sit on the fence eating his cake.

Why did you decide it was time to go to plan B? Write those reasons down and keep them close when you are tempted to have contact with him.

Yes... if it is a land line. And if he sneaks through somehow, tell him nicely to refer to the plan B letter and hang up the phone.

Its pretty obvious you aren't in a real Plan B Ani, which is why you really aren't reaping the benefits of Plan B, either for yourself or for the impact they could have on your WH.

As far as the request to take the kids, I think you should base that decision solely on whether or not you want to watch the kids. If you don't, don't hesitate to say no. If you do, don't hesitate to say yes, no explaination or discussion about what he's doing or not doing with the time he doesn't have them is necessary. He's gone, out of the house, this weekend, next weekend, whenever, he's with OW whenever he wants to be, so not watching the kids this weekend isnt' really interfering in the A in any meaningful way.

I realize there is naunce to every situation, but my impression is that you have gotten yourself stuck between plans and in doing so have become ineffective in combating the A. These plans, they are more for you, the BS, than anything else. The fact that the plans tend to end As and restore marriages could almost be seen as a byproduct of the process of reclaiming one's dignity, self-esteem, and establishment of real boundaries. Don't do anything now for your WH. Do it for yourself.

Gaba,

First of all, in Plan B, you wouldn't pick up that phone in the first place. You would have already thought out what you would do if the WS called (caller ID, let go to voicemail, don't read the TM, forward email to intermediary without reading, etc.)

Ani is STUCK. She has been in this SAME place for some time now. She is harming herself.

THat fence that her WH is up upon is growing wider and wider, so much so, that it has become a foundation which he could build a house upon. She's part of the equation, and therefore part of the problem. Accepting that is key here.

She has the power to NOT speak to him. She also must realize that she no longer makes decisions for or with the WH. She must make decisions that are in hers and her childrens best interest. If WH asks, via intermediary, that she watch the children, she chooses if that is what SHE wants. Yes or no. That simple.

I know what I typed may have sounded harsh, but this has been going on a looooong time with Ani. I want for her to get to safety, to get to a place of healing and quiet/calm, to extract herself from this triangle. SHOVE HIM OFF THAT FENCE and straight into the reality of separation and divorce.

I have a few thoughts here.

Firstly, no, I don't think it does you any good to say "I'll only take the kids if it is work related". That is a form of control. You cannot and will not be able to control what he does. I used to try that little tactic with my ex and you know what? He just found another baby sitter and spent time with ow anyway. You aren't going to be able to stop him from doing what he is going to do. If I were you, I'd take those kids every single time he doesn't want them and DOCUMENT IT. Then, if it ever comes to it, and you have to decide a custody matter, you show that judge that on 85% of the occasions your h was supposed to have the kids he chose not to. Will work in YOUR favor. You take those kids every time he doesn't want them no questions asked unless you have plans for some reason. AND AGAIN, DOCUMENT IT. He will think you are taking the kids so he can go off and do what he wants. Let him think that. You just smile and say "sure I will take them" and don't even ask him what he is doing. If it ever comes to custody court, it will bite him but big.

Yes, you cannot do Plan AB. It is one or the other.

mlhb

So am I supposed to tell him I want a divorce? We're already seperated. Is that the only way to shove him off the fence? I may have not done things exactly the MB way. Trust me I've tried. I guess not that hard. I love my husband even after everything we've been through. Do I file and either he gets off the fence or the divorce goes through. I guess that might be the only way I'll get an answer. Will Plan B IF executed properly really get him off the fence? I know it will help me heal, but do really think a well executed Plan B could help our marriage get back together? I feel that it is too late for me to do a Plan B and have be effective. I guess that's why when I wasn't successful before I just sort of gave up. I mean I don't talk to him very much. I try to keep my distance and keep things light if I do happen to see him. I do feel more at peace that way. Things don't trigger me.

from what i have seen on here, well executed plan b's after a good strong plan a , does work in many instances. NOT ALL, but a fair amount. you do a completely dark plan b for as long as you can, but my understanding is no longer than about 2 years. you (and he) are still getting a fix by talking to each other once in a while.

plan b does NOT mean you file for divorce.

i'm not the best to give plan a and b advice honestly. by the time i found this board i was so "indifferent" to my marriage i didn't have much strength in me for either plan. i did a kind of plan a for awhile and he did notice the changes but his fog talk told me it was "too little too late". then i found out about a bunch more affairs he had had and all the lies he was telling and enough was enough. my ex did not deserve a plan a. but he is an extreme case of a very anger filled narcissist. i had other issues to worry about with him besides just his infidelities.

mlhb

This will be going on for two years come this July. After Plan A for a year husband did return home for 4 or so months. I spoke to his best friend who said my WH was exicited about moving home and working on our marriage. WH then moved back out saying he wasn't sure if he did the right thing. He has since been back out since October. He doesn't appear happy, and content. He appears to be tired. (When he was in the affair before he always seemed happy, etc) That's why I'm not sure if he is with OW or not. I would assume if he was and was happy it would show on face. He appears worn out. Anyway, not sure still if they are together or not. I once spoke to the OW in October and she told me she was through with it all. She was crying and said he had lied to her etc. I am not sure if they are back or not.

You don't do anything with his actions or inactions in mind. Plan B is about protecting your feelings before all love is lost. Plan B is also about acceptance that you can't control him but you can control you and protect yourself from further hurt.

Your biggest difficulty with any of Marriage Builders plans is that everything you do is for an impact and response from him, rather than just bettering yourself and healing yourself. That's why you struggle and hurt worse.

I'll be happy to help you learn who you are and what you want to become, without him in mind, but I can't support you in trying to figure out what's going to break his attraction to the OW. That's wrong-headed. And wrong-hearted. You'll come across as needy and dependent on him, instead of being who you really are.

Ani, PLEASE listen to Kayla

You are trying to manipulate and control your husband, instead of truly focusing on yourself, what is within your control.

Plan B is FOR YOU, not to woo your husband back. You also do not file for a divorce to see if he will jump; you file for a divorce if that is what you really want, NOT HIM.

You are seemingly hyperfocused on him, by your posts.

That is why I suggested you reread SAA.

mlhb is right in that MB doesn't guarantee you success toward marital recovery; it does, however, give you one of the best shots at it, IF YOU FOLLOW THE PLANS.

Thanks for all your help everyone. I really have come a long way believe it or not. I don't go back to the days of checking if he's with OW or not. I care but don't really because I know I can't control it. I haven't spoken to him in 2 days. I know that doesn't seem like much but I feel better when I don't. I think you're right about me being focused too much on my WH. I can't even do a great Plan B because I know it'not going to make him too happy (he thinks it's childish) and thus I feel like I would be just pushing him away. Out of sight out of mind. He picked the kids up tonight and I had everything waiting out front and sent them on their way. We had a great weekend. Went to the beach all day with friends and then out to dinner. Today I cleaned my house and got ready for the work week. I bought the book You're Best Life Now/ Joel Osteen. I hope it's good. I plan on reading it tonight. I've been at a new job for a month now. It's going really well. It's keeping me busy so I don't have a lot of extra time to think about my situation. I get a lot of my friends telling me to "move on" and that "it's been a while why don't I just divorce him." It's tough stuff to hear. I guess I still have hope for us. I guess I just believed the things my WH was telling me, about coming back home, if "we" were through we could have been divorced long time ago. I believed him so I just thought I would wait out this affair. Wait for him to realize that it isn't what it seems. I'm not sure that I'm not contributing to his fence sitting. I make it very clear to him that I love him and want him to come home. I've been pleasant to him and make no demands. I feel like he thinks he has all the time in the world to decide what he wants. I do believe him when he says there are days that I want to come home, and days I'm not sure. I guess I just distance myself, concentrate on the positive things in my life and let it go.

Kayla- Thank you for your offer to help me. I really need it. You're right...I do try to get a response out of my husband. That's all I have left is his respose. That's how I try to gauge where he's at...and whether he's done with our marriage. I know that's not I am supposed to say, but that's how it is. Help me move from that frame of mind to a healthier one if you have the patience.

Someone here once said to a person in your situation (I'm paraphrasing, forgive me for not exact words): "Pretend that your H died. Say he had a heart attack. Now envision yourself, a few months after the funeral. WHAT would you be doing? What decisions would you make - for yourself? How would you spend your time? Would you change the course of your life? Stay the same? What would you do?"

Do that for yourself. Pretend he isn't even around - for now. And make the decisions for yourself that you would make if he wasn't around.

Once you do that, you start to become more attractive. He will see you getting on with your life and I can tell you, from a psychological aspect, if you get on with your life...it will DRIVE HIM CRAZY!

I'm not guaranteeing it will drive him back to you, but it will do two things: Make you look like the woman he once loved and let you start a life that's full of good for you. If he comes back, fine; if he doesn't, you've already started down the path toward having a good life.

I'm in an abusive situation, not an affair situation. But I have found that this exercise is equally beneficial for both situations.