I am not sure if this is the best place to post this. I chose the infidelity forum because that is what his porn addiction/viewing/lying/hiding...is to me.. It feels to me the same as if he were actually having an affair with these women in real life... I am struggling so hard to deal with things...A few replies-- to let me know if this is the best place to post-- then I will fill in all the blanks.
thanks

I'm not sure where the best place is to post, but wanted to let you know someone is thinking of you and praying for you. I agree that what he is doing is adultery. It's a terrible habit that causes great harm to a marriage.
This board is a bit slow on the weekends, so don't be discouraged if you don't get many replies right away.
I hope you can share more of your story and find the help and support you need here.

I'm not sure that it is "technically" an A, but it certainly is something that MB would address...your spouse is not meeting your EN and therefore, you are in the right place.

As a BS, I don't know that I can grade the severity of your situation with regards to those of us who have experienced a real flesh-related affair, but I personally think that many things can take a similar role to an A...any addiction or activity that comes between you and your spouse will create some of the same emotions and problems. I'm not sure that following the suggestions for a WS would make sense in your situation, though, mainly because WS relationship is one-sided with the porn. I would consider finding support for addictions (maybe instead, maybe in addition to).

Questions: Does your WS hide porn use from you? Does WS use it instead of SF with you? What is the rest of your relationship like?

Thanks... and as time allows, I will get thru the whole story.

To ME, porn is the same as--if in some ways worse than a real Affair; because with another human- I know I can at least stand a chance against her, in porn- it is all fantasy; perfect little bodies-- young, and without any real connection-- how can any woman truly compete with all those perfect little tramps?

The fact that he LIED to me about it- many times- hurts me far worse than the act itself.....

Will keep up with this thread and keep it updated as time and emotion allow.

Thanks

4BorW,

All affairs are based on an element of fantasy, that being said, I understand your position on pornography. It can, and often does, seriously hamper intimacy in the relationship. It is just my opinion, but I think fear of real intimacy is a component in pornography usage as well as live person affairs.

I have known two women who ended their marriages because of pornography. One's husband got to the point where he wouldn't make love to her, but she would catch him masturbating to porn videos in the middle of the night. The other's husband became a different kind of voyeur. He didn't want to make love to her any more. He wanted to watch her masturbate, which escalated to him wanting to watch her have sex with others. That is when the marriage ended. So, I clearly get that pornography isn't the innocuous activity that many in our society claim it to be.

Dr. Harley has written some articles about pornography addiction in the Q&A Columns on this site. There is also a thread in the "negotiating in marriage" section of the message board titled "impact of porn on marriage". There are varying views on the impact, but I think you will find others that agree with you on the seriousness.

I am sorry that pornography is so deeply affecting your marriage. My thoughts are with you, and I'll keep an eye out for your updates.

Thank you, Exodus..
I have been reading that particular thread- and even have a post or two on there myself as well. I was formerly posting under the name "4myself", but due to a computer glitch- i lost my access to that screenname, and now use my current one. If you- or anyone else has time-- there's alot of history throughout my previous posts.

Perhaps, even I should go back and reread some of them, too. Maybe even that can help me to gain more perspective on my relationship.

Right now, I am still hurt, confused and angry...as well as betrayed. My H and I have been talking about the issue this weekend... so at least there is a start. and he has agreed to go to counseling with me...

I will add more details after while- I have to get some house work caught up- or at least started,as DH was called in to work just a bit ago. And- no- I do not hide my MB posting from him- I have actually emailed him links to various threads- including the "impact of porn on marriage", just yesterday...and he has full access to all my internet activity, passwords, everything. I have nothing to hide from him. I just wish that it had been the same with him. He did give me passwords when I asked for them- but was careful to clear his history on the occassions he had been perusing the porn sites.

I need a break from this for a few- before I break down ....

First off I do agree that porn use is a PA. Especially if self satisfation is involved. The fantasy world can be very real to the person involved. I know from my own past involving porn that it was agreed by my W and several counselors that it was a PA. This would also include any trips to a strip club.

Some things to help you. There is an awsome group called Pure Life Ministries. They offer help for men and women to overcome any form of sexual addiction. The group was founded by Steve Gallagher. His wife has written a book that is for the wives of men involved with SA. I highly recomend his series. It has helped me termendously.

At this time it seems that he does not see it as a problem and has no desire to stop visiting any sites. If he shares a computer with you or he decises to stop there is a filter that works great. It is called B-Safe. I use it and have had no problems with it. It will also send emails to an accountability partner if an attempt is made to access a blocked site. It keeps a log of all websites that are accessed that is independent of his browsers history. This can also be emailed to you on a weekly basis. There is also a function that records all IM's and puts a disclamier before the first message that it is being recorded. This works great if you have any kids that use IM. If the program is turned off it simply will not allow internet access. So unless he has the password he can't get around it.

Hope this helps.

Broken...
Thank you for your gentle words.At least I know that I am NOT the only who relates to porn/mB'ing as a PA... Thanks.

The program seems very helpful. We do share a computer, but we each have our own laptops as well- though mine is personal, his is from and for work. That was the one from which he last pulled up the porn sites.

* He had used his personal log on that is universal, to check emails, browse, etc.--- that is how I was able to find it on the history.* (Yes- he had given me the passwords and I had told him last time that I would check from time to time- so I did not do that without his prior knowledge)

In some ways- I have seriously thought about installing a blocking program, and even a high tech keylogger. But that is also just a crutch. We need for the habit to be broken-- and share 100% trust and honesty between us.

I love my H very dearly...and I am certain he loves me, as well...We just have a few MAJOR obstacles to overcome. All I really want is for us to be honest, faithful and happy in a good healthy marriage.

I am sure that there are many people that don't think that it was a PA. My take on it is there was just as much of an emotional fix as there was a physical one. So if it equals an EA why not a PA. Another thing that matters is how you as the BS see it. He needs to do the work that makes you feel safe. So if that means viewing it as a PA than thats where he needs to start.

Your right that a filter is not a fix to the problem. If he has access from a work computer you can't install it there anyway. Or at least not on the ones from my job. The IT dept. frowns on adding additional software.

I could get by without the filter now. And really I didn't need it when I installed it. I found other ways to spend my time. I also found the root issue for why I would look. Once I addressed that, the desire quickly feel to the wayside.

One plus is we have 3 kids so I will continue the service. I no longer fear what they may find when doing honest internet searches. It is scary the stuff that can so easily be found.

I've tried to stay out of this, because I have conroversial views, but I have to say that this topic really isn't about porn. It is about your relationship. It is about conversation. It is about staying best friends. It is about finding how/when your marriage changed from being best friends to becoming about protecting your own wants/needs/assets against your spouse's. It is about feeling safe to say what you feel and KNOWING that your spouse loves you enough to consider your feelings and weigh them against what he/she wants. It's not about porn.

I don't know your views well enough to consider them controversal. Everyone is entitled to their own views. For my wife and for me it was a problem. It took away from our relationship. If it is a LB for either spouse than it is something that needs to change.

For me porn was a symptom of other things. I used it instead of spending time with my wife and meeting her needs. I usually looked at it when I was angry with her for something. What I should have done, and what I currently do is talk to her or to a male friend when I get angry. Either way porn is out as an option for me.

Broken...
My thoughts exactly.. I just really hope that He can, will, does see things with a different POV, now, since he knows where I stand with it--- tho, dang-- I feel like a broken record here.



If you don't mind, would you please tell me what that was???
Perhaps it would give me further insight to the workings of the desire for the porn...

My husband has stated that "all the guys do it/have it/ look at it" at work- ""It's always there, always so readily available, so in your face everywhere- magazines at the grocery store- billboards along the highways, TV, every internet page there is--there is some kind of sex-sells pictures,ads,etc.You can't get away from it""

--Unfortunately- the latter quote is so very true... But that does not mean that he has to succumb to it. Drugs are rampant, so many of the guys in his line of work- use drugs... BUT HE DOES NOT.What is the difference with porn? If all the guys all jumped off the bridge-- would he do that too? PEER PRESSURE. CONSTANT BOMBARDMENT WITH IMAGES FROM EVERY POSSIBLE SOURCE...I can definately see the temptation...

But like I told him--there is just as much temptation out there for WOMEN as well, and it's SO much more likely- and common for a woman to be directly propositioned-- I run into that at work every day-- BUT again- I DO NOT SUCCUMB TO IT. If I can be strong enough to resist and turn away from it; why can't he???

We went together to the PO to get our mail Saturday from the po box- I went in while he sat in the car, again-- there it is!!!
An advertisement from PLAYBOY addressed to him, inviting him to order a subscription. HIS POINT MAGNIFIED-about the prevalence of it. It's has already caused a downfall in the society, where sex is so explicitly and freely displayed-- no one knows what is right or wrong, moral or immoral anymore. It's sickening...

WE need to find good healthy ways to direct our energies and attentions.

I understand- and yes- this is true- this is what it boils down to, ultimately. BUT the PORN very well is a major issue here--

IT HURTS ME; IT TAKES AWAY FROM MY RESPECT AND VALUE OF MY HUSBAND; PORN MAKES ME FEEL LESS SAFE AND COMFORTABLE WITH MY HUSBAND, IT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE, SAD AND DISGUSTED AS WELL.PORN IS DAMAGING TO OUR RELATIONSHIP. JUST AS WOULD ANY OTHER ADDICTION/ESCAPE BE.

I am not yelling here- just trying to emphasize the importance of the subject--to me.

It is in our face everyday. TV, billboards, non porn magazines, even sports radio. Every where you go sex is around. I am constanty on the look for ways to get away from it. For us my copmuter is in the kitchen and the screen can be seen from the living room as well. It's kinda hard to do something in private if everyone can see my screen.

When does he look? Is it daily? Does he do it after a stressful day?

I only followed the other thread for a couple of pages, 4BoW, but I will go back and look for your story.

You are not alone in your reactions to this situation. The following link is a statement to a senate subcommittee arguing the impact of internet pornography on marriages and families.

http://www.heritage.org/research/family/tst111405a.cfm

When I am not around, mostly. Yes- a stressful day will do it- He is often on "location" (an oil or gas well out in the middle of nowhere)for 14-18 hours at a time... from way before dawn, 3-4 am, until late at night. He has told me that it is an outlet for stress, frustration at work. I do understand that- the release, the boost of "feel good" endorphins... But- that still does not make it "better" for me.

I don't think that it's a daily thing-- he said maybe once a month or even longer sometimes..sometimes one or two times a month....

Okay- this is kinda long-- but here's a history if incidents;

Back in December- I was looking for a disk to burn some pix onto for our family Christmas cards- the disk I used said "disk full"--it had no writing or any kind of label- was in with other blank disks..so I did a file search to see what it had- PORN!
About 40 different short videos- ALL DOWNLOADED FROM THE INTERNET -and all with the same "theme".

I was very upset-- but figured- hey, this was an old disk- maybe it's just one he's forgotten was there... I tried to let it go. I erased it and used the disk anyway. When he came home later that pm, even though I was trying not to let it show- he knew there was something bothering me- he has a knack for that, and kept asking until I told him. He said "yeah- it was an OLD one- from way before we even met- and he thought he'd gotten rid of all it". I ASKED HIM POINT BLANK-""Is this something that you are still engaged with?- Do you still look for it? Is it something I should be concerned with?"" His answer was of course, "NO". He said it was a past thing no longer needed.

Fast forward a month- January, We had been at home alone most all afternoon, and I had suggested a "little afternoon delight"--and he had refused--stating he didn't feel good. He sat at the computer playing a video game. I went out to run a quick errand-- 10 minutes tops- and came home and walked in on him- watching online porn and MB'ing. I WAS DEVASTATED! He immediately stopped and tried to "hold" me and apologize- I couldn't let him touch me. I cried, I yelled some- I cried some more. We talked about it- and I pointed out that it hurt me- that it made me feel useless, worthless, (because he'd turned to it instead of me)- and because he had lied to me about it, when I asked him point blank in December. I told him that it made me feel terrible- it hurt- and to ME it was THE SAME AS IF HE WERE CHEATING. He said he'd never looked at it that way- but that my explanation gave him a different perspective on the subject. HE PROMISED ME- that he would never do it again- that he did not want to hurt me, and I meant the world to him. I demanded all his computer passwords, and told him I would probably check it on occassion... He agreed to that without hesitation.

Earlier this month- we were in almost the same scenario- he was on the computer (and the phone with a family member)and again- I had to run a short errand- the same one as before-- I had gotten no more than a half a mile away from th ehouse when it struck me that this was exactly as it was in January when I walked in on the porn video & him... Well- I had a major panic attack- I got scared and sick as a dog, had to even pull off the road for a minute..but I managed to pull out of it. I was just being paranoid, maybe, I thought.

Fast forward the 9th of March... I was at work, started not feeling too well- shaky, nervous- anxious... It got much worse- turned into a full blown panic attack by the time I got home. I waited until he phoned me from work to tell me he was driving in (home)--it's usually an hour to hour & 1/2 from then til he makes it in... I was still very anxious--so I logged onto his email/web account and pulled recent history-- There were searches and viewed results from several porn websites from that afternoon (while he was still at work). i was so angry! Hurt, pissed, BETRAYED--ALL OVER AGAIN... *(BUT- I saved a copy of his history and printed it out with the date and time of the search/views)

HE Lied to me about giving it up, he lied to me point blank. He then broke his promise to me to not use again.

When he got home- I was finally a little calmer. I waited til after he'd showered and we ate dinner- I barely nibbled- then when we were alone in our room- I asked him point blank-- ""How honest are you with me??"" Of course he said totally... I asked him again, and told him that I didn't think he was being truthful with me- again, he claimed he was being totally honest with me. There is where I called him a liar- and handed him the printout of his web history from earlier in the day. I had solid physical proof that he could not deny.............

The rest of the conversation is for a later post. NUMBER ONE BETRAYAL -- HE LIED TO ME !!!

Now...it's one hell of a long rough road back to a happy healthy relationship.

Great link! Thank you for posting it.

It's a shame that some people feel that it is there right to look at it, but I don't have the right to do a search and not have it pop up.

Well, I know that I lied about how often I viewed it. I denyed it when she showed me the internet history. Anything to take the heat off me. I would make up reasons that it was there. I didn't intend to go to that site and once it opened I immediatly closed the window. Stuf like that.

I understand long days at work. There are other ways to releive stress. He could go for a walk. That will also release the feel good endorphins.

To use it instead of SF with you is selfish. It's all about him. So not only did he hurt you by looking, but he also failed to meet your own need for SF. If you read the Love Busters book it talks about our Taker. It does what ever feels good to us and does not care if it hurts another. This fits him.

Just so you know it has nothing to do with you. Nothing you did or did not do is to blame for his issues. This is his to own.

Can you help him overcome this addiction? I think you can. Try and spend the 15 hrs together that MB suggests. Between this and his long work days he should have little time to spend looking while at home. Be clear that it bothers you but don't LB while doing it. Read and have him read if he is willing from the Pure Life Ministries. There are others that you can use. New Life has a book series called "Every Man's Battle".

Here are links to their sites.
http://www.purelifeministries.org/index.cfm
http://www.everymansbattle.com/

4, I am in NO WAY trying to mitigate the pain you've experienced. I'm only trying to help you see that you see things completely differently - the way men do. And that that is the reason your marriage is suffering.

Please try to pretend that you are a 12 year old boy, getting his first erection, wondering what is going on with him, afraid, shameful, inexperienced. Unless he has a really well-balanced father who walks him through this, he grows up with a boatload of issues. Including shame, secrecy, needs and wants, acknowledged understanding of what's expected of him.

Fast forward to a 20 year old, or a 30 year old, even a 40 year old. This subject has STILL never come up. He still has the urges to have more ejaculations than his wife is providing. He reverts back to what got him through in his childhood. He has to relieve that sexual need to ejaculate. It's not happening like he expected during dating. So his brain picks out the most logical step...ejaculate to his porn stash.

This subject is VERY VERY VERY complicated. You may feel it's all about whether you are worthwhile, sexy, loveable, etc. But I am here to tell you it isn't!

I'm not trying to make excuses for y'all's husbands - just trying to get you to see there is something going on in HIS mind, and not just yours. And if you want to save the M, you will have to consider what HE is thinking.

4BoW,

I went back and looked at the other thread. I think one issue that you and your husband are having to deal with is confusion... his and yours. I'm not discounting your hurt in this situation, but when I read your story, it appears that you married him knowing that he had lied on this topic and that he was already crossing your boundaries.

You said that when you first started dating he said that he didn't need it/use it/care for it, and that you expressed your intolerance for it. You set the boundary, which was good.

Moving in with him, you found porn, which he told you to throw away, but it verified that he was lying when he said that he didn't need it/use it/care for it. You still moved in with him. Boundary crossed.

While living with him, the internet porn situation came to light. You stayed. More steps across your boundary of no porn.

You then married him, and are now faced with your present situation. I don't think he understands where the boundary is anymore because he is so far past it and you have allowed that by not being clear on it and enforcing it from the beginning.

I am not negating your feelings in this, I am just trying to help you see why he may be confused by it being such an issue for you now.

Would he be willing to go to marriage counseling with you, so that you can both reach some understanding on this situation?