I'll start from the beginning. We've been married for 18 yrs together for 20. About 5 yrs ago I had a PA with a co worker which never really got resolved between my wife and I. It kind of just went away so there have been pent up feelings since then. It was compounded by a couple of email contacts that wife found out about after I had told her we disconnected. We were in a different state so contact was impossible not that it matters to her. Since things were never resolved, I got off kind of easy so I never really had to show much remorse and things began to slide. I was wasn't very good in the support department either, as far her career and otherwise. We are both active duty military, she's been in 20 yrs and i've been in 23yrs. Anyway, our awesome marriage began to slide because of my sins. We used to have a text book happy marriage with an unbelievable sex life, no complaints. My affair was purely for male satisfaction and my need for attention not that I was missing this from her. I just needed more, like a teenager, midlife crisis I think. Our relationship began to sour a little but I never thought we were that bad. Sex was the main sticking point for us in the following yrs. She became unhappy because of my lack of support and jealousy. This jealousy and non-support grew afterward because of my decrease in affection from her, I was never a jealous man before. Like I said, I thought our relationship wasn't perfect but not even close to the edge in my mind. I've learned now that she says she was keeping things in and faking happiness to save the family. What a blow. Anyway, last year she deployed to the desert for 7 months, she returned 4 mos ago. We had email communication the whole time and other than the usual spat, I though things were normal. She was happy to be coming home, wanted to plan a vacation, said she missed me but in hindsight, i never noticed any affection toward me. She was different when she got home and I asked her about it. She unloaded everything on me. She's out of love, doesn't think it will ever come back. Too much pain and withholding, i hurt her too much and her time away allowed her to think things out and she wanted to be happy again. This would be without me. I asked her directly if there was someone she met while gone and she said no. Since she was in her moment of honesty, I figured she would've come clean if she needed to. For 3 mos, she was cold. No "i love yous" no touching, no sex. Actually we had 3 encounters that were nothing more than her giving me an outlet and it hasn't happened since. She went on a businees trip to the states (we live out of the US)for 2 weeks. We had talked and she said this would be a good time away to think about things and see if maybe things could start in a positive direction. After a week, she called me up and told me that the military had given her a "no contact" order and that she was to have no contact with this other man. She confessed to having a EA/PA with a man she met while in the desert. He is an military person too and he was in the class she was in, with her. They had planned it that way and he was married too (he lives in another country). They got caught because his wife found emails and called his boss to press charges. My wife and he will face disciplinary charges which are pending. His career is over since he was higher ranking. As soon as she told me about it, I asked her if she wanted our marriage to work and keep our family together or was this it, she said she wanted to stay together and work things out. She actually told me that the two of them had talked about ending their A and seeing about getting their marriages back on track, since they live in different countries, it was most likely the last time they'd see each other anyway. She said he wanted to continue things with her but said she never expressed the desire to leave her family for him. None of that matters anyway. I am totally committed to saving our marriage and have already forgiven her, i did on the spot. I've never had a doubt about loving her and still do despite the affair. I had a instant image of this being a chance to start over and get things back on track. I will say that mental images haunt me from time to time but nothing like i ever imagined, I think the last 3 months have gotten me so scared of losing her that even an affair has made little impact on me. Since she came back from the states, things have improved dramatically from what they were. We actually talk to each other, she says she loves me from time to time and she even snuggles with me once in awhile. Now when I ask, she is still hesitant to commit to saving the relationship. She still says she's unsure of what will happen. She hopes that her feelings will change but is doing nothing to try to change things. Her job is very demanding and since the day after she returned from the states, she has been working a minimum of 12-14 hr days and weekends sometime also. She's worried about her legal actions, she overworked and she is worried about the marriage but says she has little time to think about it much less do anything. I pretty much handle most things around the house because of her work hours and I'm happy to do so, I've been good as far as those kinds of thing go, for years. Plus I just finished being Mr mom for 7 mos. We have 3 kids. We haven't told the kids anything but they know something is different. So, here we are. Things are quiet. We never fight, it's pretty much pointless to fight, we both know that. But things are just...there. Nothing. We did go to dinner on the 31st for our anniversary, it went well. I want to pend time with her alone but don't want to push anything. She is still very distant. I've been doing what I can to give her space, I don't bring anything up. I'm working on myself although I've become somewhat of a codependent and it's really working on me. I've been applying my skills learned from MB and other sources. I think they all have good experience and apply to our situation. But things are just so stagnant. I mean, seldom is there any affection shown. Sometimes she doesn't even aknowledge me when I come in the house. There are many positive "static" things like our vacation that we're planning for the summer. She talks of our future together but sometimes mentions a future apart. I know some of you are thinking that our situation isn't so bad but it's killing me. We used to be so physical and affectionate, the rejection and lack of touch is just tearing me apart. I am showing my affection by hugging her and kissing her when appropriate. I definitely don't push her for anything, mostly good night and goodbye kisses. I haven't even come close to talking about sex at all. She tells me that I'm a perfect man, a perfect father, couldn't ask more from me around the house. Tells me that other people would think her crazy for doing what she's doing. Once in awhile a little mistrust will creep in on me. I keep reminding myself that her actions are hers and I can't do anything about them. Maybe I'm just being impatient. I'm just so optimistic that I'm itching to get going. This idleness is making me fearful of our marriage slipping into the same lull it was in before her deployment. I just want things to be better, not the same as when we were young, but better. She's not spiteful, she's not harassing, just distant and indifferent. Do i just continue as I am and hope for the best or are there things I can do to get things moving? Now that I've written things down, i feel as if I'm just whining and things aren't really that bad. I frequently feel depressed and hurt and cry alot. I try my hardest not to show it in front of her and never in front of the kids. She tells me that when she sees me hurt it makes it even harder on her, but harder how? I haven't cried in front of her in awhile. I slept on the couch a couple of times when I couldn't keep it in. Once she came down in the morning and laid on the couch with me. She actually asked me to come to bed with her once also. Last night I went down stairs till early morning because I couldn't hold it together. Laying next to her and not being able to touch her is a punishment worse than anything. She snuggles occasionally and I'm grateful. I just don't know where to go from here. She says that things may get better when she finds out what's going to happen with the legal things, it could be months from now. Sometimes she says she may never recover from all this. She still hasn't forgiven herself, I just tell her she is a beautiful person who made a terrible mistake just as i did. I've been seeing a counselor for a month and continue to. I've spoken with my chaplain a couple of times. I am constantly on the web looking for info to help. She has gone to the chaplain once. I'm concerned about her emotional health and have let her know that she is welcome to come with me to talk with my counselor if she feels up to it, she refuses, says she's not ready. I've asked her to talk with anyone, anyone, with or without me but she's not ready. I'm really concerned that she's killing herself, she's lost alot of weight, as have I. I just dont know, maybe I'm just looking for some reassurance or someone to tell me that I'm moving in the wrong direction. My counselor seems pretty optimistic but she doesn't get to see my wife and her reactions. I'm just wondering...

Dino69

Can't tell you what to do but be understanding as possible and let here know you're there. I'm in the same boat but for different reasons. I can connect with the struggle to sleep beside her and not make advances. It's counter to our nature and it's killing me.

Good luck bud.

It sounds like you are doing a lot of the right things. May I ask what you are doing to deal with your depression and how that's going? I am pretty new here myself, so I feel a little sheepish offering any advice, but for me personally, I think it would be hard to fall back in love with my husband while he is depressed. Do you think that your wife might be picking up on this at all?

I hope that things will get better soon for you. Be patient and take good care of yourself

Absolutely, and she tells me so. I just can't seem to get over feeling so down around her because of the situation. I try to be as cheery as possible but you can only mask your disappointment so much. I do ok much of the time but she tells me that she sees it and it adds to her already heavy burden. It's the lack of affection that gets me, we used to be so physical, I'm like an addict without a fix. She's been better after the A was found out, she surprises me sometimes with little things, but it makes it worse in a way. I guess I just get my hopes up so high that the fall is worse when I'm disappointed. I need to work on myself, I know that. I don't do the things I do with results as an expected outcome. I do them because I want to be better and get our marriage back but she's not in the right place to even try right now. She's told me that if I made her choose "right now" she would choose to split up. She's says that she can't say how she'll feel a month from now, 6 months? She says it would be hasty to make a decision with all the things weighing on her right now. She even tells me that she hates that feels the way she does and wishes she could flip a switch and change but she can't. I just need to find a way to be patient and to stay positive or I won't last to see a positive result if there winds up being one. I know what I want and am committed, I just need more tools and I'm constantly looking for them, if there is anything anyone has for me, please let me know.

Dino, you might get some better advice if you post this over in Infidelity. That's where all the people who've had experience like yours will be, and can offer you help. Plus, there's a LOT more traffic over there!

If you do, would you mind going through your post and breaking it up into paragraphs? It's really hard to read it this way.

I'm not sure this would be a tool, but for me what helps is watching out for negative thoughts and forcing myself to try and turn my thoughts into something positive. For example, if I caught myself feeling sad that my husband wasn't sure about staying in the marriage, I would say to myself, he's still here so we have a chance, yea me! Ok, you don't have to add the "yea me" if that's too girly for you But basically try to end on a positive note. I think you probably do this naturally at work since you are in the military, so I bet you'd quickly get the hang of it.

Kind of along the same vein, maybe it would help you if you remind yourself that you need to BE positive for your family, not just fake it. Focus on how much you love your wife and family. When you feel sad, you are kind of pulling a "poor me" which means you're not thinking about your family, but just of you.

Something else you could try is making lists of things you are happy for ... I do that when I'm really down in the dumps and it does help me.

Well that's all I can think to suggest for now. What do you think? Don't be too hard on yourself.

I really appreciate it. I guess I'm just on a down swings right now. I know all those things you told me but I slip into a rut and it seems like nothing helps. I keep thinking time will make it better but 4 months down now and I don't feel any better. The last couple of days have been pretty rough, I'm just concentrating on not doing anything to lose any of the little progress we've made. I'm seeing someone about my depression this week, if I could just get pass that part, I should be able to cope much better. Thanks again.

Dino, I'm sending you a big virtual hug ... {{{{{{{DINO}}}}}}}

Keep trying. You might not see results at first, but if you keep plugging away, it'll add up. I know you already know that, but hopefully it helps to hear someone else say it.

Before we got married, my husband (then bf) and I went through a period of separation because he wasn't sure he wanted to stay in the relationship. It's not exactly the same as your situation, but I think it is similar enough that I can understand how you are feeling right now. I remember that I too did not feel any less sad after 4 months. But looking back now, I realize I was getting better ... becoming a better person like you are doing now ... I think it was just such a painful experience it was hard to tell that there was less pain. At about 9 months is when I finally stopped feeling down and ironically that is when my husband decided that he did want us to be together.

One other thing I forgot to mention that helped me was talking to understanding friends. One of my good friends sat patiently through hours and hours of my trying to figure out what went wrong ... I'd feel bad, but she ended up meeting her future husband at the bar we would go to. You can always vent here if you need to.

You'll get past this, don't worry. Yea Dino!!

Snuggle

You have no idea how good it feels to hear you say that. I know my depression is one of our biggest sticking points right now. I'm really trying and can see the differences in her on my good days vs. my bad days. I'm doing alot of the things I need to do to feel better with myself. I'm not really wasting away, still working out and cooking dinner is one of the things we do together quite often. I'll keep you updated on progress, hope to have good news for you during the upcoming weeks.

thanks again...

Sorry Dino....I just need to jump in on your chat with snugglefresh!

Hey Snuggle...are you well? Haven't seen activity from you in a while.

Dino -- as a wife, I can say, keep trying. Just be the man you would want if you were in her shoes. Love her and be patient. It will probably be harder on her to let herself off the hook than it will for you. Hopefully you'll both find peace.

Hi Dino! Hi fiori!

Dino, how's your week going? Are you taking good care of yourself and doing things to keep your spirits up? Do you need chocolate (always works for me ...hee, hee!)?

fiori, I'm doing fine. I just got back from a conference in San Diego so that is why I haven't been here lately. Two of my friends who live right near where the conference was held are getting divorced, so I saw them and spent a lot of time catching up with the wife. I'm friends with the husband too, but being a guy I think it is harder for him to talk about what is going on with him. It made me a little sad I sent a link to this website to the wife, but I she has not really checked it out. I probably should have sent it to the husband because he is the betrayed spouse. She had an emotional affair so she is probably kind of foggy. But I feel like maybe that would be too pushy.

Snuggle
I have a specific question for you. By the way, things have been ok, nothing earthshattering, just moving along. We're still getting along well, I guess I can call it progress.

I get conflicted about something. Sometimes I feel the need to ask a question about something and I find myself getting real anxious because I try to weigh my need to know against the effect it will have on her. I'm already making sure that when I ask, it is during a time that is condusive to cordial talk so that emotins are less likely to effect the conversation. But I get real mixed up on whether it's important enough to risk a step back in our situation. I know I'm the only one who can say whether it's important enough, but is there a point in the recovery period that pointed questions should be avoided? It seems that depending on my mood, some of these questions are more important than when I'm in a better mood. I just want to avoid any unneccessary trouble. What do you think?

That is a really good question and I can definitely relate. The other day I was listening to the rebroadcast of Dr. Harley's radio show and he talked with a woman caller who asked a similar question and one thing he said that really hit home for me was that you should never bring up an issue when you are still mad about it and then he laughed and said he knew that what we are thinking is "but later it won't bother me and I might not bring it up." Which is exactly the point, right? OMG, I can't tell you how many times I fell into that trap!!

So similarly, when you realize that a question is only important when you are in a certain mood, then maybe it's not the question driving you, but your mood. I think you answered your own question when you said "I just want to avoid any unneccessary trouble"

I know mastering bad moods is easier said than done. I do think it's worth putting effort into though because it makes you a better person, especially for others. I've had a few bosses who were moody and they sucked! So when I need motivation I remind myself of what I don't want to be like ... LOL! And of course being moody at home is even more damaging, so that is a good motivator too. What about you? Any similar experiences?

Yea, I know what you mean.

The thing is, I'm very good at not letting moods get to me at work. It's this situation that's got me all out of whack. Most of us have never had to deal with anything like this so there's experience to fall back on. I'm starting to get my bearings though. Like I said, if I can fight through that initial "need" to know something, I can usually get by. I'm just making sure that I'm being true to myself also, that's where I hit the conflict. Can I or can I not live with the thing in question? I always used to ask my wife that. I'd say, "if you can live with it, why bring it up?". There may have been some fault in that logic though, it may have contributed to our current situation after all these years of "living with it".

Thanks again Snuggle

Dino,
Do yourself a favor...lean on Snuggle. I'm not quite sure how or why, but her words are comforting at just the right time. I'm quite sure she never went through what I did, but knowing that she would offer me a virtual hug and kind supportive words was enough to keep me coming back here and keep me sane.

Thanks Fiori

God knows I need some help right now. I just can't seem to come to grips with my baby of 20 yrs not loving me anymore. I can barely get through each day without a breakdown (on my own, not in front of her). I have an appt tomorrow to try and get a handle on my depression but I just can't see the light right now. The pain is tearing out my insides. The A is just an afterthought, not being able to touch or feel the love from my wife is unbearable. It's affecting everything I do, I can't keep my thoughts straight, why is it affecting me so bad and why can't I just get over it?

Dino I'm sorry you are still hurting so much. I know you can't see the light right now, but it IS there. Believe it! How are you managing your breakdowns right now? Do you have a strategy to get yourself back on track when you feel one coming on?

Please don't be so hard on yourself. It's obvious you love your wife very much so of course you're not just going to "get over" the fear that she no longer loves you. But recognize that it is fear. What do you do in the military to deal with fear? I've always been curious about this! Maybe that will help you reframe what you are feeling in a way that you can handle more easily.

Remember that you can reignite the spark in your marriage. This board is full of stories of people who have done and are doing that. The common denominator seems to be patience and selfless service to the marriage. It's been a lesson to me seeing how people (like fiori) put their ego aside (especially their anger and fear which are such powerful emotions) and focus on bettering their marriage and taking care of their spouse and how much stronger their marriages are for it. Are you following any of the other threads on here?

Fiori, thanks for the kind words. I don't think I deserve them, but I'm glad if I helped a little and even gladder that you and your husband are working things out.

Snuggle
I don't know where the breakdowns come from, but the last couple of days haven't been good. If I don't think about the situation, I manage well. But seeing her everyday is a reminder of how she doesn't love me and it is killing me. Bedtime is the worst, I get real anxious everynight because I want to lay with her so bad but there is no physical contact at all. I'm really trying but keeping my mind clear is easier said than done. I'm going to the states this weekend for 2 weeks and I'm not sure if it will be a good thing or not.

I know fear is the key. She just seems so convinced that our love is gone. She just doesn't comprehend that love and marriage need work to keep alive. She's still in the mindset that if you don't feel it, it isn't here and she wants to give it up. I am scared. I know I can't tell the future but the pain is real, and it's affecting my entire existence right now. I'm doing really good with the marriage building and all that but it's taking a toll. I'm trying to be strong. It was all so sudden that I don't think I've stopped spinning yet. How does someone change overnight like that? This is another one of the war "casualties" that never gets talked about in the news. Time away is a marriage killer for us military people. The stress of being in that dangerous place breeds an environment of need that gets fulfilled by the first person to fit the bill. Those of us at home are left to deal with the carnage that was once our marriage.

Hey Dino! How did your appointment go today? I hope it was helpful to you.

So what is your wife doing to make you think she is convinced love is gone? I am wondering if maybe you are reading too much into things. After all, she is still with you, so to me it indicates that at worst, she is not sure, and not at all that she is convinced love is gone. That would make no sense to me. If she was truly convinced, it would be easy for her to leave. So, is she saying this to you on a daily basis? Or are you assuming this is what she is thinking?

Is your wife not allowing any physical contact at all? No hugs even? What would she do if you just maybe patted her on the shoulder? Just in a comforting way, not in a way that would indicate you want more than just to be a friend. I mean, I know you want more, but right now it's a friend she needs and if you are what she needs that's how you get back to being her love too.

I'm not sure how you can lower your anxiety at bedtime. But here is something I see that maybe you can work with. I feel like I am hearing too much "I" on this topic. You see your wife and you start thinking about ... YOU ... how you really want to lay down with her. I know as always this is easier said than done, but can you turn to thinking about her? How is she feeling? Did she have a rough day? Is she lonely? Is she stressed out from work? What can you do to ease things for her or make her more comfortable? Does she need an extra blanket? The window open? If your mind is filled by thoughts of caring for her, it might keep your other thoughts at bay. I know if I were her and you started to do little things to care for me like that, it would make a difference in how I felt about you. Ok, at first I might be suspicious that you are faking it, but I'd be watching to see if it sticks. This is basically what they call Plan A on this board. You know your wife better than I of course and maybe you think she wouldn't respond the same way. Do you think she's different?

Ok, I'm rambling today so sorry about that! Last thing ... you are strong and you are going to make it through this. I'm pulling for you so you better

Snuggle
The appointment went great, I felt alot better after just talking. Funny thing is, she was saying all the same things I've read about here on MB. WW is just in a bad place right now, I know that. As for your question, there's no doubt all those things about love being gone are in my head. She tells me she loves me (but not in love) when we have our discussions, but I truly believe she does love me. I'm hoping it's the fog that's got her. The thing that worries me about her "still being here" is that since were in the UK, it's harder to split housing costs. She's told me that if we were in the states, she would've moved out. I've actually asked her if she wanted me to move out with friends and she said no, uses the kids as an excuse. I don't want to move out but I would do it if it would help in anyway. I do make alot of assumptions and I need to stop, luckily I keep those to myself so it doesn't hurt any progress, if there is any.

As for physical contact, I feel like such a s#@t because I probably have it alot better than some in my position. She does hug me sometimes and pats me on the head or leans over in the morning and puts her head on my shoulder. I get to kiss her on the cheek or forehead and sometimes she kisses me on top of the head. So I should be happy and I am. i just get impatient sometimes, I can't help it. I just know down deep that things can be great if we just get moving. But we are moving I guess, I should be satisfied.

As for the bedtime thing, I do take care of her. I have to be careful about smothering her though. There is a fine line between being thoughtful and being overbearing, you know? Once she goes up to bed, I wait for awhile, then I go up and give her a kiss on the cheek and tell her I love her and let her sleep. I'm trying to give her the space she says she needs. Her work is gringding her into the floor and all the events of the past few weeks are on top of all that. She is really in a tough spot and it tears at me to see her in all that pain, so I do what I can to ease that. She does say thank you all the time, but she's still seems a little stand offish. I don't think she feels that all of this is genuine. She's told me before she doesn't think I'll be able to change things, she doesn't think I'll be able to forgive her or look at her the same way again. She thinks I'll always mistrust her and smother her with questions and snooping and stuff like that. Time will tell I guess. I have told her that it's disrespectful towards me to try to tell me how I will act in the future and that she should let my actions dictate her feelings about me. I don't know if she'll ever let herself open up to me again but I can't help that.

Believe me Snuggle, I only have thoughts of caring for her, the guilt of all the things I've done in the past rips at my heart. I can't believe I treated her the way I've done in the past, I just want to care for her and make her healthy and happy again. I do get overwhelmed sometimes with the feeling of rejection but those times are getting farther apart. They do hurt but I'll manage.

Thanks for your thoughts, I hope to bring you goods news one day. Keep an eye out for me, I value your comments, they help more than you know.