Broken, I am glad you found the link useful. I thought it was interesting and would like to look up the research attached to the testimony.

It might help 4BoW if you could share what helped you realize the destructivness of your porn usage.

Cat, we are only talking about 4BoW's husband. I understand and respect that you have a different view, but I don't believe pornography usage is only about a male with an erection that wants to ejaculate. That act can be accomplished without the visual aid of graphic pornography.

Not in this case- I assure you! It seems that I have been the one with the higher sex drive. I love him, find him very attractive, his touch drives me quite mad at times... and he is perfectly fitted to me, and always very satisfying.


Another topic we did discuss this past weekend- How each of grew up and how our parents related the topic of sex, etc. and both were fairly much the SAME. It wasn't discussed. Period. Both of us grew up in very old-fashioned homes...

BOTH of us have previously been married to someone else whom was very actively- if not very addicted to the use of porn.(his 1st wife- my 1st husband).Neither were healthy relationships- hence why each of us moved on. His W bought movies, magazines, posters and subscriptions for him- and sex toys and even went on to attempt to "share" her best female friend with H...

My 1st H-- became so addicted to porn- that he couldn't even attain an erection without it- much less perform and the more he used it- the sicker it got- and the more violent he got with me sexually. *(This is the primary reason I despise porn so vehemently-- and have such vile aversion and horrific reactions to it- scars, raw wounds..BECAUSE of the porn- I was HURT, HUMILIATED,USED,ABUSED, and RAPED in very sick and painful ways.)

My current H was involved in another LTR where porn was acceptable- shared between the two of them; He used it freely without consequence. SHE went on to need more and ended up having an affair with another man... My H was devastated, heartbroken and alone again.

My 2nd H... porn was never an issue- BUT he was VERY controlling, abusive and domineering- in all aspects of our M...

My current- and dearest H; has never been rough, demanding or otherwise with me in bed... He has always been more passive and gentle with me. He has told me several times that he does not want to seem/be demanding of me-- or hurt me--Which has been great-- but has at times also been very difficult...



I have been trying my damnedest to do just that- but he will hardly ever talk to me about the subject, again- back to his childhood I suppose- it was not a subject to discuss...Even when I have asked him- during the course of SF--what he would like or want-- he won't even say it then. But that's another issue we are working on.


That it is.

I agree with Exodus, here. Masturbation is NOT the issue with us--
the use of PORNOGRAPHY is.

Broken, I'd be very interested in hearing more about why you did this, if you are willing to share. I understand how an unintended side effect can be spending less time with your W, but I don't understand specifically using it when you're angry with her. Was it to get back at her because you knew she wouldn't like it? Or was it that you wanted SF and you were angry with her so you didn't want to turn to her for that need? Was it a replacement for SF because you were too angry to have SF with your wife, or were you specifically turning to porn as a release for your anger?

And, what caused you to stop doing that? How did you overcome whatever was keeping you from talking to your W when you were angry?

My stopping came from 2 main reasons religious conviction and fear of seperation or divorce. My w has known of my porn use as a teen since we got serious in dating. But I never told her it was something I still looked at. Even back then it was an occasional thing because time did not allow me do it. We also did not have a computer until we had been married for several years. I never liked having material in the house. I was afraid she would find it or worse one of the kids. It was not long after we got the computer before I started visiting sites. She found them and threatened seperation. I swore to stop and we went back to normal with very little (things that I could sneak around)in the way to stop me from looking again. This happened several times. Until I stopped going to them because I wanted to stop.

My wanting to stop was from my beleifs. I was raised with christian values and was not living up to them. My vows swore to forsake all others. To me this includes images of others. Even though I felt quilty for looking, I would take a view that if I would say I was sorry than I was ok. I finaly got it through my thick head that I was not only hurting my wife but also myself.

As for using it in anger. It was never over her saying no to SF. Most of the time was when she would go out for the evening. I was angry because I was left to the kids by myself and she was having fun. Instead of me being happy that she was getting a well deserved break and having fun. I would be selfish and feel that I was entitled to having fun of my own. So after the kids were in bed I would look. There were also times that I would look for other anger issues but not that often. I learned to express my feelings of her night out. I came to realize that she needed it. She still goes out most weeks. And I have fun with the kids. Instead of being angry at her and being selfish, I took the night to be a time to spend time with the kids. We have read books, watched movies, or played games. I make it a fun time for myself and the kids.

My use of porn was never about my W. She is beautiful beyond measure. Her drive for SF was never an issue. Granted there were times that one of us would want it and we couldn't. After all we have 3 kids and I start work early. Porn use is a selfish desire. It is all about pleasing yourself.

I know of many couples that use porn in there sex lives. While I don't agree that in the long term it is benificial it is something that each couple has to POJA for themselves. If you have clearly stated that it is something that you are not comfortable with then he needs to decide if his desire to look is more important then your happyness.

Hi, I'm new here, but I wanted to jump in on the porn discussion.

Broken, I find your perspective as a porn user very interesting. If you see my post below, I'm currently having an issue with my husband and his porn addiction. Would you ever have considered yourself an addict? I'm trying to understand his perspective, and whether or not my attitude toward it is only making the problem worse.

I've taken the perspective that his porn use allows him an outlet for fantasies that I don't share, but he has crossed the line between what I consider acceptable (just looking) and cheating (contacting other people). For me, it's hard to see porn as a yes/no right/wrong thing, because sometimes I use it too. But then I'd be just as happy to never look at it again, but it's definitely a compulsion for him and I'm not even sure that he would be willing to give it up.

I guess I'm just wondering what your perspective is.

I will work on a response to your thread.

I was trying to talk about the mentality of a teenager. You can bet dollars most, or at least many, teenage boys have passed porn around - in secret - when he's probably not having sex with a girl; or if he is having sex with a girl, he's doing that in secret, too. It is that which may have set his mentality - he equates his first sex and secrecy with the porn. Some men never throw that mindset away after they grow up.

From what you've said, he isn't entirely opposed to stopping, maybe marriage counseling? But he likely won't unless you make it a requirement. He knows by now you won't walk - at least he assumes so, because you keep accepting it. How can you change that?

I have asked him to attend counseling with me- he did agree.
I did point out that it was NOT optional. I told him if he does not follow through, then I will leave.

We have made progress in our talks-- but NOT enough for me to "let it go" and/or "accept" it any longer... I promised him that I will be here for him- will stand by him--ONLY so long as he exhibits full participation in reform, in rebuilding our marriage- and refrains from the use of porn.Although- I think I need to reiterate this point, so as he realizes that "lip-service" will not suffice. He has to not only agree to it- but he has got to actually take an active role in it.


We talked a long time again last night...(Monday night)We covered more indepth on the issues behind his porn use and my aversion to it. WE ARE BOTH HURTING- and looking for ways to rebuild our faith, trust and marriage and maintain our love...

catperson,

First of all I want to say that I really admire your posts to the hurting people here, for the most part they are wise and very helpful and empathetic.

However, I have to disagree on your reasoning of why men use pornography.

I had problems with my H over porn for years and years. He used it before we had a relationship.

He used porn in order to disconnect and stay disconnected. He had abandonment and neglect issues in his life. He was afraid to commit to a relationship. With those issues and a couple of exgf's that disrespected him, told him he was over and useless when he told them his family history, he became a porn addict.

I cannot begin to explain to you the pain and issues it caused in our marriage. He used it to keep himself disconnected from intimacy. He basically was a single guy for the first 14 years of our marriage. He also used phone sex a LOT. He racked up thousands of dollars on the phone bill.

And needless to say it ended up that I did not want to have SF, because I was tired of finding swingers mags that had stuff circled in the area we lived. It would take me about 6 months to get over these episodes, not to mention feeling very inadequate and worthless.

Enter the affair. He had so much fear of abandonment and rejection that he spent 14 years rejecting me, who had loved him unconditionally. He did not understand the reasons why. Yes, I had not been anywhere near perfect, and had my part in our difficulties, but the porn issue was his alone. He was NEVER faithful to me for 14 years.

I consider porn a form of adultery, unfaithfulness, if you will.

Once my H dealt with his abandonment issues and FOO issues, and went to the Lord with it, the porn stopped. Once my H opened up to me about all this stuff and got some help it stopped. I truely believe that God took that desire from him.

He had one relapse about 4 years ago, and there haven't been any problems since.

My H's issues with porn were very deeply rooted in other issues, so it isn't always easy to explain away. Different men have different issues. My H's porn use was tied to some very complicated issues within himself. And it was very serious indeed.

enuf said.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Miss M, I would never try to say that it is not destructive when both parties are not enthusiastic about it, nor would I disagree with your analysis. From what I've read, your example is the most common one. I was just trying to explain the mindset of a teenager/turned adult male, who - from what I have read here and elsewhere - can have a vastly different opinion of what it is than a female can.

I was just advocating trying to understand the male's thinking in each particular instance, because a woman just saying I don't like it will rarely penetrate his ingrained way of looking at it, which most typically started as a teenage boy. He may say he understands you, but he likely will not understand your thinking any more than you understand his. And thus, it might not be a big enough reason for him to quit.

A bad analogy, but that's like continuously fighting over keeping your tv guide on the table or the tv - one of you thinks it should be at arm's reach on the table and one of you thinks it should be out of sight but logically with the tv. If neither of you understands why the other wants it a certain way, neither of you is likely to come around to the other's way of thinking.

The more you understand a person's psychology, the more effectively you can interact with them to achieve a better result. That's all I'm saying.

And your husband may have used it to disconnect - and I certainly empathize with what he put you through, but 10-20 years ago, he probably fit into the description I gave. It may have turned into what he is now, but it likely started in his bedroom, with his best friends giggling over a magazine. And your husband DID deal with his psychological issues, which is why he was able to change.

Just telling a guy you don't like it probably won't make him stop, no matter how much he loves you, because in his mind - because he was doing it - it wasn't the dealbreaker it was to you. (meaning any 'you') That's why getting down to the core of why they turn to it is usually the only answer.

4BoW,

How are you doing today? Has the talks continued and more importantly have you made any progress?

I agree with you, Cat. I think what 4BoW is wanting is for the behavior to stop, and then to deal with the psychology behind it in counseling. This is in line with the way other "affairs" are dealt with... stop the contact... then figure out how to meet the need that was being met through the porn usage. That need may have to be met by the spouse being willing to be more available for SF. There is also a possibility that it may be a different issue that stems from youth or FOO, that the user needs to work through on their own.

I really do understand where you are coming from and your feelings on this. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but if I have been understanding your posts, you see porn usage as being more akin to an annoying habit. I think those who see it as being more akin to an affair are looking at the impact it has on intimacy, trust, and sexual expression within the relationship, since sex should be exclusively between the spouses. Either way, I think we are all in agreement that the spouses need to communicate to find a solution.

As you stated earlier, it really is a complex topic. I am just glad that 4BoW's husband is in agreement about the counseling and hope that they can work through the stress it is causing in their relationship.

No, not at all. But thanks for trying to understand me!

I think it can be as big or bigger of a problem as adultery, death, or debilitation. But what it is, depends on each two people. For some families, it may be an annoying habit, I suppose. For others, it's a dealbreaker. For others, it's something the wife just doesn't want to know about as long as her marriage is working. It is impossible to quantify what it is, because it differs every time two people get married.

And in the end, it really isn't the issue, anyway. It is a symptom of what the two people are feeling and what they're doing to each other. It's a symptom of POJA or not-POJA. You could have some woman who has a horrible aversion to blonde women for some strange FOO issue; maybe her dad left her mom for a blonde or something; it makes her instantly sick to her stomach to see her husband talk to a blonde. It makes her feel abandoned, walked on, cheated on, even though he really loves her very much. If he develops an addiction where he 'needs' to talk to blonde women , knowing what it will do to his wife but not understanding how she could be bothered with something he's done all his life, and stops talking as much to his wife cos he's busy talking to blondes, he's got a decision to make: honor his wife's feelings and stop, or think he has every right to look at blondes. A bad analogy, but my point is any feeling is a valid feeling - and the spouse has to honor and respect it, for the sake of the marriage.

Today, I am coping. Trying to clarify a few things in my mind. Working at deciding exactly where some of my boundaries- old and new ones, need to be. Trying to figure out what my next step will/should be.

We have talked more... gotten a little more "progress"- if you can call it that... We've delved into our pasts a bit, how we were raised in regards to sex, how my XH abused me--geesh- that was a bag of bones better left buried- but if digging it up and facing it anew is what it takes, then so be it.

I still feel like he is trying to justify his actions and negate the severity of my reactions and feelings... I honestly do not know just what really is on his mind, in his heart and whether or not he is being truthful, and if so- to what extent.

We've made a different appt with a different counselor- so that we both will be there each and every time. (the 1st one wanted to see us each individually- H first, then me before he would see us together.) I still fell like he is trying to evade this, though... But I can't move forward with any trust issues until it happens- until he SHOWS me PROOF THRU HIS ACTIONS that he really IS committed to me and to making our marriage work for the best.

I am struggling with this whole thing on 2 very different levels- okay maybe three: one being the porn itself, two being his lies and deception and betrayal and third being how I personally deal with both of the above along with the resurrection of terrible memories and details of my past....

Then there are his past demons that he has got to face as well.

I did email him the link to the "impact of porn on marriage " thread- I have as yet to find out if he has read it and how much.

I am debating as to whether or not to send him the link to this one as well- and if so, when. Or maybe I should just print it all out and ask him to read it with me. I dunno. Any thoughts here would be appreciated.

He keeps wanting and pushing me to delve more into my past... but I need him to do the same and bring everything out into the open as well. I keep feeling as if he is avoiding doing such. But- I have to find a way to get him to open up to me as well. That's a real tough one, I know. Opening up leaves one feeling very naked, vulnerable and on stage to be judged. It's hard..and dammed near impossible for some people. But even though its a painful thing- it's the only way to truly get over it and heal. At least that's MVHO...

I truly appreciate everyone's input- please keep posting to me-- right now I desperatly need all the help I can get!

Just a quick note for right now...

Your past does not change the fact that today porn is an issue. It is his to own. He needs to find out why he can't live with out it. Not why you can't learn to accept it.

What is more important a happy wife and a good marriage or jerking off to a computer screen!

Agreed. Why isn't he coming over to meet YOUR needs? Does that happen a lot, with other things, too?

Broken... I agree totally!!!!

will write more this afternoon, gotta get to work!

Cat...I have asked myself that same question...In most other areas of our life he does. Just that in SF, things are different.... trying to get to the bottom of it..