Hi all. I don’t come on here much anymore but today I am in need of some advice.
My WH has had NC for almost 2 years now but has planned something that has all my red flags out.
He went on one of those former classmates sites (don’t us BS’s loathe those?!) and found that a former girlfriend of his had looked at his profile. WH sent her a message, they exchanged a few back and forth, and they are meeting for lunch tomorrow. I am livid, to say the least. WH told me last night, and said (you’ll love this one) that he wants me to be able to trust him – and that’s why he told me!! What?? I informed WH that if he wanted me to trust him, he should not be going to lunch to begin with! I mean, look at my signature – it’s obvious WH has some issues with being faithful.
As it stands now, I am not speaking to WH and told him I would not be joining him this weekend (we have plans with friends on Fri and Sat) – I told him not to go to lunch, I told him this was asking for trouble, etc. but he is not cancelling his plans as far as I know. What am I supposed to do here??? Ugh – I am so sick of this!

If he has not learned, then you have to make a decision.

Do you continue with him, and hope that he will learn someday?

Or do you do something drastic, that will (hopefully) get his attention? Like plan B.

Or do you finally kick him to the curb, and file for D?

I always recommend you call the Harleys for counseling. Working with this weekly gives them an edge in dealing with it.

So sorry he doesn't "get" it yet.

Or maybe he does, but doesn't care. What do you think?

SS

Hi,
I'm sorry you are back here after two years. It is a hard place for all of us to be. Have you set your boundaries in your own head? Did you explain those boundaries to him?
When my FWH and I began our recovery I told him that NC with OW meant NC. It meant that if she ran in front of his vehicle and he hit her, he could pull over and call 911 only if he knew that she was not capable of getting up. Harsh? His affair showed me that he did not realize how a cup of coffee with OW could lead to an affair.
We also agreed that we would never expose our marriage to that again. Neither of us. No lunch or anything else alone with someone of the opposite sex. (Read Hedges) If you have not established that boundary you really need to do that now. Do it calmly and quietly with no DJs or LB.
My H knows that I will never tolerate another slip up of any kind.
Say

I think you're 100% right. Your radar is up for good reason. He shouldn't have lunch with her if it bothered you. He should at least schedule it for a time you could come too. What happened to POJA?

I'm afraid all my advice is not marriage friendly, so I'll sit on my hands.

Thanks...i think WH does get it and doesn't care, frankly. I think because i didn't set my boundaries in the beginning and i did take him back after 2 affairs that he thinks this is no big deal - and by my actions in the past, who can blame him? I am sure he thinks I will be mad for a few days and this will just blow over.

I feel for you in your situation, MPELE. It's so hard to think that the person you're married to doesn't care.

I understand where you are and why it's possible your WH thinks his bad behavior will blow over. I think I'm in a similar place in my M. My WH has continued to lie and I've not been true to my boundaries. I now have a plan for Plan B, though it is dependent on a few things falling into place (a job for me since I lost my job in Feb).

For you, though. What do you think your next steps should be? Have you developed a plan to determine what your boundaries are and how you'll enforce them? I think you owe that to yourself and your WH needs to see this change in full action mode.

He may decide to continue to be a serial cheater, and then again he may realize that what he has is worth saving if he sees that his bad decisions will cause his M to end.

And just one more thought... If you change how you deal with your husband's infidelity by enforcing your boundaries he will have no choice but to react to the change. There's no guarantee that your M will be saved, but it surely won't make it if the current dance between you continues.

My FWH and I have agreed that in order for me to trust him, I must feel safe. I do not feel safe with him having ANY relationships with other women outside of work-related women. And even then, we've been clear that their conversations should NEVER venture into the personal.

I don't think that this will be necessary forever, but he and I agree that there is NOTHING more important than our marriage and if giving up minor friendships with people of the opposite sex can strengthen and protect our marriage, then that's what we'll do. This is even MORE true of an ex. It is NOT ACCEPTABLE to be friends with someone you have had an intimate relationship with if you are trying to recover your M.

I think you need to show him that this is going to cost more than a few days of anger. My FWH says that he used to do things knowing that it would make me mad, but weighing what he would get out of it against how long he'd have to deal with my anger. He was totally cake-eating and I didn't know it. Show your WH that it is unacceptable. Make an enforceable statement like: If you have lunch with OW, I need you to find another place to live by this weekend. Then follow-through.

If he leaves and doesn't come back, don't you think that while it's painful, it may have saved you more future pain? If he doesn't meet with the ex...great. If he does but then begs forgiveness, follow-through and make him move until he can EARN your trust again. Plan B.

KLD is exactly right.

Before you act, you must decide what it is that you want. If you want change enough that you are willing to D if you don't get it......... then it will force the issue. You have to be willing to live with whatever happen though. Many people on MB have reported that the change never came until they made the decision to force it no matter what the outcome.

SS

From being here before, you probably know the four rules.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html

He is breaking the The Rule of Care and The Rule of Protection outright, and probably the The Rule of Time also.

The only rule he is not breaking is The Rule of Honesty.

Reading up on the rules, and then explaining them to him may help, but I bet you have to get his attention first. Something on the order of a 2x4 or a fire hose, or plan B. You know him best, you think on it and tell us what you think.

My opinion is that if just talking would work, he wouldn't be doing this in the first place.

It takes all four rules for the relationship to be what it should be. I think if he was to read the material, he would agree, but until there is real interest on his part, he won't read it or want to do anything about it. (hence the suggestion to take drastic action.)

SS

Hi MPELE...Good to hear from you, though not for the reasons that you are here...UGH is right!

Holy Cow, what a NIGHTMARE...Alarm bells and whistles are going off in my head as I type! This is EXACTLY how my affair began...Ex Boyfriend contacted me through one of those classmate sites, and Mr. W knew from the get go too...That is NOT reassuring and does NOT prevent an affair! I want to slap your F?WH silly myself! Does he know anything of MB or the concepts within? What he is doing is a recipe for DISASTER as you know...ANY ex is OFF LIMITS...It goes along with what Dr. Harley speaks of when he talks of there forever being a low burning flame between people that were romantically involved...that flame can be reignited at any time...Another Ex Boyfriend of mine tried to contact me by emailing me through our business website...That email went IGNORED...Luckily, he gave up...No way would I play with fire again...My marriage and family simply mean too much to me to EVER risk them again...NAH UH! Could you bring your husband here and let us have a few words with him? He is playing Russian Roulette!

Can you go to this lunch with him MPELE? It's time to draw some boundaries...You can't and should not have to live like this...

I am very sorry...((((MPELE))))

Mrs. W

I know I need to grow a pair and set my boundaries once and for all. This has been the crix of my problem for as long as WH and I have been together. I try to do it, then cave.

I would like to just tell WH that if he does go through with the lunch that we need to separate and he needs to move out. I don't think I am ready to file for D but I do totally agree that just ignoring him for a few days is not going to do much.

It just amazes me that after everything we've gone through that some part of him thinks this is okay. I told him last night that even if we had a normal marriage, even if there hadn't been infidelity, that I would have had a problem in him having lunch with a woman from his past. His sense of entitlement is disgusting to me.

From Mrs. Wondering:

My marriage and family simply mean too much to me to EVER risk them again.

EXACTLY. That's what hurts, alot, because you would think that WH felt this way...but apparently he doesn't.

I am thinking the same thing that mrs. wondering put....go to lunch with them. if it is no big deal you would think he would want his old high school friend to meet you! since he told you when the lunch was did you he tell you where? You tell him that if he doesn't change his mind than fine, you are going to lunch with them. AND MAKE SURE YOU DO IT.

mlhb

Right MPELE, one of the reasons that I get this is BECAUSE of being here on the forums at MB...That is why I asked you if you could bring your husband here...Have him read what Dr. Harley, the professional, has to say...Let those of us that have been down this road talk to him...I wonder if your husband just doesn't GET this and perhaps being here could help??? What do you think?

Also, what about going to lunch with them? I still think it is a relationship that cannot be pursued and maintained...too much history there...BUT, in the event that he insists on going, make sure you are there too, k?

Mrs. W

In my naivity 6 years ago I introduced my husband to 'Friends Reunited'! It really was the start of so many problems for us. I'd gone to an all girls school and he went to an all boys school, so it didn't occur to me that there would be any potential problems.

His first girlfriend came out of the woodwork. An EA started before I knew what an EA was! Before too long, he got himself embroiled in a PA with a different woman, but I believe the catalyst was the first girlfriend.

The sad thing is that you can go to the lunch and sit there and make them both uncomfortable; or perhaps the three of you will get along fabulously. But the fact that the lunch is happening at all just shows that he doesn't 'get it'. He is a gambler and is prepared to lose you because he doesn't value you enough to cancel this 'harmless' little venture. The fact that these two people share some history is enough to get the ball rolling. And what a cheek for him to expect you to trust him???

Good luck. It's a stinky situation.

YES, tell him you ar going to lunch with him!!! I had this old HS girlfriend crap myself. Nip it now, It took almost 2 yrs for my FWH to get rid of his old flame. They think they have a history, they think "what if?" They don't realize that the "love" they shared was born of raging hormones and the lack of mature decision making. They don't reconcile in their brains that what broke them up way back when, will get them again.
And...somebody in the group wants "some closure" for whatever happened way back then. Good Grief!! They want that simpler, no responsibility teenage feeling they had back in the day. It's a disaster waiting to happen. Please, stop it now, before he starts playing "Steppenwolf" in his head non-stop. Best of luck to you GF

Ho did it go? Did you end up going to the lunch with him? Did he cancel?

I hope that whatever happened you are doing ok. Please know that you have our support regardless of the outcome.

HTM

MPELE,

Wow. That lunch is incredibly inappropriate for a spouse who's never been unfaithful, and completely unacceptable for a spouse that has.

On those "reunion" sites, you've got to pay a fee to see who's looked at your profile. He shouldn't even have a profile, let alone be a paid member.

Would he be so eager to go to lunch with her if you were there, too? Invite yourself and see how he reacts. If it's so "innocent", he should have no problem with that.

I would completely lose it if my W put me in this situation. He isn't putting you through this for nothing more than idle chit-chat about the past...but maybe a fling with an old flame would be worth it to him.

You shouldn't tolerate it. Unless he really stupid, he knows he shouldn't be having lunch with her, either.

I'd find out if she's married. If she is, work on finding out how to contact her husband.

He should respect that you're uncomfortable with this.

When I was married I kept minimal contact with my female friends, who lived in other states and were friends with me for years before our marriage.

I informed my wife of any emails I'd get from them and limited my contact to emails only and only on rare occasions.

I kept things transparent and hid nothing from my W.

But I would have drawn the line at meeting with those women for lunch if my W objected.

I feel I pushed the issue once when I told her I wanted to meet with a friend I had known for years and was only a friend and had never been anything else.

It's a fine line with people who have only been friends, but it's a totally different issue with ex's.

My mom says that where there was once a fire embers remain and I think this is very true of exes. There was obviously an attraction there once and things could rekindle under the right circumstances.

I say that you don't have children with this man and I would make sure not to have any in the near future.

You could bail right now and lose nothing in the process and come away with lessons learned.

He's already violated your trust once and it's inexcusable for him to behave in a way that has him playing with fire.

Set your foot down on this and let him know you're not happy about it or insist that you come along.

Any friend that your spouse has should be out in the open and should be a mutual friend.

You all are wonderful.
I didn't ask to go to the lunch, because I knew what the answer would have been. WH even wanted to know if I planned on 'showing up and causing a scene'. I didn't answer him on that one, lol...let him think about that and wonder the entire time if I am lurking in the parking lot!
WH was kind (laugh) enough to send me all sorts of 'i love you' emails this morning....but as far as I know he is as I type this having his 'friendly lunch' with this woman.
I told him last night if he went, that i was done. I have continued to repeat the mantra 'i meant what i said' to anything he attempts to tell me.

The guy is clueless, seriously. I am sitting here hoping he chokes on his salad or something.