I would love to get a couple of opinions on strip clubs being involved in marriages. Here is the story:
When my husband and i were engaged, he went to a strip club overseas (he's in the military). I was very upset that he felt he had to go and watch naked women dance around him while he spent our money for them to do so. He has visited a lot of stip clubs while he was single in the military and sees the strip clubs and strippers as no big deal. I, on the otherhand, see it as a very big deal. I do not see one good thing that can come out of a strip club. Well, he finally saw my side, apologized, said it would never happen again and i left it alone.
Well, we have now been married for five years and three weeks ago i caught him at another strip club. This time i was BEYOND pissed!!! The one thing that most bothered me is that he KNOWS how i feel about this subject and he still chose to go to the strip club. I aked him what happened and he said he just hung out. I then asked if he recieved a lap dance and he said no. I believed him. Then this past weekend i was looking at our credit card bill and found a $152.00 charge from the strip club. I AGAIN went off!!! Now, not only was i mad that he spent $152.00 on a lap dance, but that he LIED to me about it. How would he not think i would find out? I always look at our credit card statements. And thinking about another girl dancing for him half naked (or naked, not sure) is driving me crazy. He again said the strip clubs are no big deal and i had nothing to worry about...that he came home to me. I don't see how he sees it as no big deal when he can see how much it bothers me. We obviously have different views on this subject and thats fine but why did he still choose to do something that he knows upsets me so much. It bothers me that he knew i would be mad and hurt about him going and did it anyways. And i feel betrayed that he has to go to a strange girl to get turned on. I am a pretty attractive thin woman (with breast enhancements) that gets quite a bit of attention from other men when i go out. I would glady give him lap dances daily if he wanted, but he has never asked. We have an amazing sex life. He is a lucky hubby who has sex daily (sometimes twice a day), so I DON"T GET IT!!! Is he right for thinking its no big deal or do i have a right to be mad and forbid him from going ever again?
Any advice on this subject would be great.

Thank you very much!!!

Definitely not ok. He is not working within POJA, is exhibiting Independent Behavior, no matter what it is he's doing. Marriages don't survive that way. Tell him you want marriage counseling, or you'll have to set some sort of boundary for him lying and doing what he said he wouldn't do. Don't make it about the club. Make it about his commitment to the marriage.

You have every right to be angry, upset, and hurt. He has no business in those establishments. It takes a bigger man to walk past them than into them.

And you might ask him why he is willing to disrespect you by going. Why he is so shortsighted to be willing to weaken the fabric of your marriage...his marriage.

And being in the military is no excuse. I am former Navy and one of my best friends was a CB. We had many good times without ever darkening the doorway of such places. And so can your husband. It's all about making better choices regarding the use of leisure time. It is a big deal if for no other reason than you have asked him not to and told him how it makes you feel.

Tell him I said he's a thief and a liar. Every time he goes into one of those pits he steals a little more of your trust and then has to lie to cover the theft.

Personally, it hurts me that he is being so foolish. I hope he will come around and do the manly thing in the near future. For his sake and yours and the wellbeing of your marriage.

My best regards.....

*****************************************

I totally agree w/ cat.
I UNDERSTAND that it feels personal TO you because it's a strip club w/ naked OWs prancing around your H.....but, I don't think he is understanding that at all.
He continually disrespects you by ignoring your concerns so he can have his cake and eat it too.
THAT is a big problem in marriage and the one you need to tackle first.
You do not deserve to be treated w/ that kind of disrespect.
Set some boundaries and if he keeps dismissing you....leave him.

I think you are being an enabler here. I have now doubt he understands. He doesn't care and is being selfish. But he understands.

*************************************

What I don't think he understands is that it IS personal to his wife.....he feels entitled to indulge in sexual fantasy w/ other women and thinks his wife should accept that as a normal part of marriage.

I am not saying he isn't being selfish...it is obvious he cares more about his needs and wants.....he is not good husband material.

Ok. You could be correct. That said, I can't convince myself that he doesn't KNOW his conduct is hurting his wife; doesn't meet with her approval; is detrimental to their relationship. This assumes, of course, he isn't mentally challenged in some way.

An example; I come home having spent the evening at a 'Gentlemen's Club'. Unknown to me my wife had called my office to see when I would be coming home so she could have dinner ready. A coworker lets it slip that I and a couple others were headed out to the club for a few drinks and a little 'entertainment'.

Unless I am six muffins short of a dozen .the moment I see the hurt, anger and disappointment in my wife's eyes, I received the best answer she could give me as to how she feels about what I had done. How it effected her 'personally'.

Were I to repeat my self-centered, selfish act again in the future it wouldn't be in ignorance of what it is doing to my wife, our relationship and ultimately our marriage.

When you say you feel he doesn't understand that it's personal with her....first, I am not sure what you are saying....second, if I could see what you are seeing that I am not , I don't think it would alter his behavior.

When you say you feel he doesn't understand that it's personal with her....first, I am not sure what you are saying....second, if I could see what you are seeing that I am not , I don't think it would alter his behavior.
**************************************

I haven't explained myself well.
It's a touchy subject for me and probably responded too quickly.
I KNOW how personal it feels, but he has depersonalized it..he is trying to make it seem as simple as watching a football game.
I don't think explaining her feelings is going to make any difference to him.
anyway..
I think he knows he's hurting his wife but he has managed to block out her feelings (and his own compassion) so he can gets what he wants.

I don't think he is emotionally mature enough to relate to his wifes feelings of disappointment that way you described.
He is too busy justifying what he thinks he is entitled to.
The only thing I can think of that might alter his behavior would be for her to leave him if he continues to dismiss her concerns the way he has been.

This helps me some to more clearly see what it is you are saying. We are complex beings aren't we.

I don't want to sound scary here but I think it's a deep core personal in question. Maybe as I think on this better words will come.


Yes. It's the damnable nature of pornography. It destroys the sensativity we should develop toward one another as well as the compassion we should cultivate toward the feelings of another. We know it's wrong. Our conscience tells us it is. We tell conscience to mind its own business and eventually our conscience is seared. It stops warning us of the danger. We become calloused. And then like you said, it is seen just as if it were nothing more than a 'football game'.

Pornography is pernicious.

This helps me some to more clearly see what it is you are saying. We are complex beings aren't we.

I don't want to sound scary here but I think it's a deep core personal in question. Maybe as I think on this better words will come.
*********************************

I was thinking the same thing.....maybe I should think on this a bit and better words will come.
I get a little tongue tied when I feel threatened and strip clubs bring back some bad memories for me.

The claim that strip clubs are "no big deal" yet he chooses to go to them knowing how that hurts you makes no sense. What does he mean by "no big deal". If he means it is such a no big deal that he is bored to tears and could take a nap in the club, then why go? By choosing to hurt you, he makes it a big deal. He chooses to pay $150 instead of taking you out on the town in style. He chooses to spend time with other women he does not know instead of being with you. I'm sure his marriage vows included something about honoring and cherishing you. It is a big deal to break that.

If he said, "I know it hurts and I slipped back into a bad habit I formed when I was single and I'm sorry" I would not be so angry. But I don't even know your H and his callous brush off answer ticks me off.

If he still insists on going he needs to own up to his choice and tell you "I know this hurts you very much, but I'm choosing my own pleasure over your needs".

Honestly, you have to set up a strong boundary, i.e. 'You are telling me that your needs are more important than my needs by going. Therefore, I have to protect myself - you stop going to them, or the next time it happens, you will be living someewhere else' But don't do that unless you are willing to kick him out. Sometimes people don't wake up until they lose what they thought was an easy catch.

--4betterorworse--

This is the essesence, I think, of what marriage is to be insofar as mutual exclusiveness is concerned. We channel all of our all toward our chosen companion. At it's best we begin with no prior experience. We enjoy the initial clumsiness and awkwardness and the mutual excitement of discovery. With the passage of time, we learn what each of us enjoys or doesn't. But what we learn and what we discover is ours to keep and share.


For me, the more I think how this was the design and the best path to follow, the more I can see how such things as pornography , so-called 'gentleman's clubs', and prostitution are so destructive; both to the people involved and to those who are sucked in by their false promises. That they have 'been around since the beginning of man' makes them no less pernicious and destructive. Makes them no less indefensible.


Personally, I am sorry you have been wounded and have those memories to contend with. For me that is testamonial enough against any defense of such things. Especially, but not exclusively,they have no valid place in marriage.

If you don't think they are ok, then they are not. YOU have to decide what you will and will not accept in your marriage.

As for forbidding him to go, I doubt that will be a successful approach. If you explain to him how it makes you feel, without AO or DJ, it might work. I can't guarantee that it will, but if you tell him you FORBID it, I can guarantee it won't.

********EDIT**********

*********EDIT*************

As for forbidding him to go, I doubt that will be a successful approach. If you explain to him how it makes you feel, without AO or DJ, it might work. I can't guarantee that it will, but if you tell him you FORBID it, I can guarantee it won't.
*******************************************

It sounds to me like she has tried to explain how she feels and he dismisses her.
Actually, I think it is time for her to forbid him to go.....but, she has to be willing to walk away from the marriage if he continues to ignore and disrespect her.

********EDIT************

You might be right. I agree that if she does forbid him, she should be ready to walk away. Telling someone what they can and cannot do will usually result in defiance.

*********EDIT********

Stop the personal attacks!