I just re-read the LB of Independent Time and I need clarification. Tst posted on my thread that it can be an enemy to M...here's my question:

Does this mean that to follow MB principles correctly, we should NEVER spend time doing things alone? I don't mean things like going to the bathroom...obviously, we're alone every once in awhile...but activity-wise...is it unwise to pursue our own interests if our S enthusiastically agrees but it doesn't include them?

Example: I recently joined a choir. I would pay my H NOT to sing. He doesn't want to sing with me. But he whole-heartedly supports me in the pursuit because he sees how much I enjoy it.

Example: My FWH loves to mountain bike. I tried it with him twice and failed miserably. I ended up in tears both times and have no desire to EVER do it again. I love the idea of him taking some time to do something he enjoys...even without me.

I get that it could potentially open the door to bonding with someone of the opposite sex, but as long as we distance ourselves from those people and do it for the fun of the activity, isn't it ok?

I also understand that this doesn't replace the fun things we do together...and we have LOTS of those. These things are in addition to those.

Thoughts?

The principal is that if you do spend a minimum of 15 hours a week of undivided attention, (including recreational activities, intimate conversation, affection and sex) that you both enjoy, then you should be in love with each other enough (Love Bank) that other activities that you do not do together will not deprive your marriage. Hunting, watching sports, cars etc for men…

Honestly once an affair has happened in the M, I would not take the risk of "bonding" with a person of the opposite sex in a non M recreational activity. Why not try to limit your RC time to things you both like? 15 hours is hard to do while pursuing separate interests.

I agree with the 15 hour of time together and understand the concern regarding alone time for a FWS.

Who does he mountain bike with? Is it a group of people or does he do it alone or with a male friend? Does he ever stop for a snack or drink after mountain biking with a group? Do you go with him to mountain biking events or races? Do the people he mountain bikes with know you and do you know them? Are you visible in this group in various ways?

Same with your choir--Does he show up at rehearsals or for the events when you sing? Does the group go out together after practise? Is he a part of the group in any way or visible to the group in any way?

Do you both talk to each other about what happens in your groups? It is not a love buster if it does not deplete your love bank. But do you feel confident that you are not setting yourself up for another situation where he becomes involved or connected to another OW? Have the two of you figured out what led to his last affair--how he let down his boundaries--. How is he planning to prevent that from happening again with mountain biking?

I agree, he should not be "bonding" with any woman. He should have no relationships with women in his mountain biking activities. You should also have no bonding relationship with any man in the choir.

The way I see it Independent time should fall under the POJA rule. You should still make sure you are spending the 15 hours together but when it comes to things you do alone it should be POJA.

For example in my marriage I go to a scripture study every week. It is in the day time (I'm a SAHM) so my DH is at work. Sometimes a few of us women go to lunch afterwards. I also like to go for walks during the day and sometimes one of my GF comes along.

DH has 2 independent activities. He is a Knight at our church and runs the pancake breakfasts once a month and a few dinners during the year. He is also in the coast guard aux. This one is his passion, he is a big military fan and helping the public makes him feel great.

In both of our IA are with people of the same sex for the most part. There are a few men in my SS but they are in the same study group. The CG group my DH belongs to is almost all men. Actually on both my DH's IA he is the "baby" at 41!


This cracked me up! My H and my kids would pay ME not to sing! DH and all 4 kids sing so beautiful, I on the other hand could shatter glass.

IMHO, I think a couple separate interests are ok if you are meeting the 15 hours a week, and the activities are POJA'd, and there is protection against bonding with members o the opposite sex, and the spouse is always welcome to come along.

If there's already been an A, then there needs to be even more precautions of accountability at all times.

For the examples of choir and mtn-biking, your H could attend all your performances and even occasionally watch a rehearsal; and you could provide "SAG" support for rides or races. (That's a term for road-biking, I don't know if it is used in mtn-biking; what I mean is, you can drive to the event, provide drink, foodbars, replacement tubes, etc during any pitstops or at the end of the ride; provide a pickup at the end if they ride from point A to point B; and cheer them on during a race.)

So there are ways that you can support your spouse's interests even if you don't enjoy participating directly in the activity. You can at least enjoy watching them have fun and cheer them on. I would think there are huge Love Bank deposits in doing that.

Undivided attention is what must be met first!!!!! 15 hours at a mimimum....it DOESN'T stop when the 15 hours is reached...That is when romantic love begins to show itself. Thats when things begin to grow. Thats where restoration begins.

This isn't {sarcasm} oh well I've met my 15 hours, now I get to do what I want.......COME ON!

This is about restoring the emotional and romantic bonds that the AFFAIR destroyed. Your M must have complete undivided attention if it is to have a fighting chance.

The next 15 SCHEDULED hours belong to the FAMILY, aka-KIDS! They need this as well, they need to heal also! BTW family time is also meeting an emotional need for many.



Undivided Attention Link

If your not spending time with your spouse you are allowing opportunities to make Love Bank deposits slip away....
...............or your allowing others to make those deposits instead of YOU!

Thank you for the responses. I think that some of this will in the end fall to our own personal comfort levels...

I started choir AFTER d-day as a way to help myself fight the depression. It was something that I have always wanted to do and just have never made the time for.

I think that my feelings may end up going against the advice of some. I agree NO relationships with opposite sex outside of our M. I agree that both H and I need to be visible to the people in our activities (although I don't think that precludes the possibility of an A...I knew the OW and she STILL felt it was ok). I agree that it has to follow the POJA rule. I agree that we both need to find ways to support one another (attending races/performances).

I know that 15 hours is important, and something that we are still struggling to meet...but I feel that there is value in a SMALL AMOUNT of independent activity as long as it follows the rules.

WHY? I'm just wondering about THE VALUE that you are speaking about. I thought you were struggling to find time for the 15 hours given your small children.

My H and I used to have our SMALL AMOUNT of INDEPENDENT TIME. You know how we ended up..YUCK...

I hope you take Mimi's post to heart. It is indeed the TRUTH.

Living by your "feelings" will get you no where but possibly divorced.

My W and I are still working this out post A.

I definitely agree that the 15 hour minimum is the priority, and also think it should be noted that it says "15 hour MINIMUM!!" So it doesn't mean you're done with each other once you hit 15 hours!

However, I also don't think ALL IB has to cease. I just think you both have to recognize how the love bank works, what the undivided attention time does for you both, and realign you priorities.

My W and I just had some discussions about this topic this week. We are going on a trip with another couple, long time friends of ours with a child the same age as ours. We're going down to a resort area known mainly for golf and kids attractions. The plan has been for the guys to go golfing while the ladies take the kids to the attractions. Now, keep in mind I did NOT set these plans, the ladies did. I voiced my concerns about there being relatively little family time scheduled into the trip and asked her why this was ok whereas she had complained in the past about us not doing enough together.

She told me that she felt ok with how the trip was scheduled, that she now felt like she was a priority in my life and didn't mind us going our separate ways during the day for a couple days during the trip. What she said makes sense to me, I guess, but it still leaves me kinda scratching my head and I'm still not sure I'm going to go along with the plan 100%.

Golf has been our biggest cause of time apart. I am an avid golfer, and will spend pretty much whatever free time I have on the course. Post-A, I've changed my schedule around some to where I do not play nearly as often when that time could instead be spent with my W, I am also spending more of the non-golf time with her as well, and in addition, we got her a set of clubs and she has been joining me on the course and at the practice range, turning what used to be IB into undivided attention time!

A COUPLE OF DAYS? If you are EARLY into RECOVERY, be forewarned about going back into your old patterns...

Be forwarned, that your FWW is still somewhat foggy and a part of her wants you to go back into OLD PATTERNS...

STAND TALL..this DOES NOT MAKE SENSE..and I would not go along with it...

OUR NEW MARRIAGE is totally OPPOSITE from our OLD MARRIAGE in this regard...

Thanks Mimi, I hear ya! There's actually ALOT different in our lives now compared to pre A, so different that it would take pages to detail. But yes, I do agree and have voiced my concerns about this a couple times. There's really no frame of reference comparing the plans for this trip with the past, as we've never really done anything like it before.

I think the good thing is that we're both aware of the situation, how it fits in with the MB plan we are incorporating into our lives, and are willing and able to discuss the issues as they arise. So that in itself is ALOT of progress.

When I say "couple days" I don't mean days and nights. The plan has been for the women and kids to go the amusement parks during the day while the guys golf, then meet back up late afternoon for swimming/dinner/family time. So it isn't like we'll be spending ALL the time apart. Alot of the plans are not really our doing, we're travelling with another couple and it is thier place we're staying at, we're kind of just tagging along in a way, so we're not really at complete liberty to dictate plans (not that they are unreasonable people or anything, they're good friends, just that it really isn't "all about us" and we have to recognize that).

We're still talking about it though, so things may change, seems the plans change every day anyway!

Tyk,

I think that for me the idea you hit on about feeling a priority is key. My FWH and I both know that we are the priority for each other in our M. When I go to choir practice (something that I have never done in our pre-A M), he knows that if he wants to come with me, he's invited. He knows that if I need to skip it for him, I will. It is NOT the priority. Kind of like your golf.

It's the same thing with FWH activities (which he hasn't been doing at all since d-day). He invites me with him, he will skip it if I ask, and it is NOT the priority. I am.

I respect Mimi's advice immensely, but I still hold on to the idea that as long as it goes along with POJA and is kept in perspective, some independent activities can be enriching to both of us. This may be ignorance...stubbornness...stupidity...but I really have a hard time with the idea that small amounts of independent activities, when kept in check with MB principles, are bad.

I'm not saying it's BAD..but right now, for YOU, not at the COST of the 15 HOURS..PRIORITY should be given to the RECOVERY RULES...

And I guess, everybody's different...

I was just so CLUELESS prior to the AFFAIR...

I'm moreso an INTROVERT and LOVE to ENTERTAIN myself..whereas my H LOVES ATTENTION..and did not have a CLUE how much BEING WITH ME means to him..I'm not sure what that's all about for ME..still trying to figure that out...

He loves for me to BE with him..

I read, though, in the book LOVE AND RESPECT that men LOVE for their WIVES to be ARMCHAIR BUDDIES..that's how they FEEL LOVED..

I've learned so much since my H's affair and we've been married over 30 years..took the affair for me to figure alot of this out..