Hi everyone--

This is my first post. I have been reading here for the past few days about plan A and B and stuff and have finally gotten up the nerve to actually post.

Here's my story (long story short-- but feel free to ask for more details if you want... I just don't want to put a 9 page story out to start...):

Hubby and I have been together for 8 years now, been married for 4. No kids, yet (just some cats and a dog).

Right after we first got married, hubby got a job that required that he worked in a different city during the week days-- about a 4.5 hour drive away by car. So, he'd leave every Sunday evening, go to this other city, stay there for the week (in a hotel) and then drive home Friday evening after work. He was home for a total of maybe 48 hours a week. His job was very stressful, and he often worked late hours while out of town, and hardly called, and wouldn't answer when I called. He always claimed to be busy. Now, in hindsight, I wonder if anything ever happened while he was out of town (cheated on me), but he denies it (and I really don't think he'd ever tell me the truth now). He has since taken a new position in the firm (since all of this happened) and is now in town much more often (almost 100% of the time).

Fast forward two years... I was frustrated and lonely, and felt second place to hubby's job. I started hanging out more with people from MY job... and became good friends with a male co-worker. Big mistake. I think after reading here, we all know where this story is going. I think that my emotional affair with this co-worker started in July of 06 (he was engaged, but not married). We ended up fooling around together once- but did not sleep together. Hubby found out shortly later via cell phone bills... and confronted me. I admitted it all... but then I'm ashamed to say I continued the emotional affair part, although we did stop the physical part. When hubby first found out, he was devastated, and wanted to work on things, but would still have bouts where he would yell at me and call me mean names and stonewall me... and that pushed me away further.

Through all of this... hubby started and emotional affair on the internet with another women, traded pictures with her (some of hers were a little racy, I found them on the computer) and went to see her one week (told me he was going on a business trip). He told her he was separated from me, and that we were divorcing (we were having issues, and I was still talking to my co-worker and hanging out with him too much... but we were not separated or looking into divorce). I found out about this a month later via cell phone bills also, and confronted him. He did not come clean at first, tried lying his way out of it. But I finally got the other woman to talk to me, and SHE told me the whole truth-- about his visit and him sending her sappy emails and cards, etc. Nothing physical happened, but he admitted that was because SHE didn't want anything physical to happen, and he probably would have if she would have initiated it. Nice. He has since not talked to her-- but more because she thinks he's scum than because he doesn't want to talk to her. (this was in the fall of 2006).

So... now today. Where are we today? I have (without really knowing it) been in a "plan A" mode since December. My ex-co-worker would still randomly pop into my life and send me desperate emails or whatever (even though I had repeatedly asked him to leave me alone). His most recent email was a few months ago, and after that one, I sent him a very nasty no contact letter (found one on this site). I haven't heard from him since. Everytime he decides to pop into my life my marriage goes into a tailspin though, and I think he knows it so he kept doing it. So, I told him that I would get a restraining order if he ever contacted me again, and sent with one of those "return email" things so I knew he got it.

We have good days and bad days. Yesterday was a bad day. We can go out and have lots of fun... but there are days when my hubby rubs my affair in my face and says very hurtful things. He never apologizes for them later on. He often will scream mean things at me and then leave the house, and I don't know where he goes and he won't answer his phone. Then he comes home later on and blames the whole thing on me. He also refuses to accept responsibility for his own affair, he tells me it was my fault. I have a nagging feeling that he might have had an affair in the past when he was out of town so much, but I have no way to prove that. There were so many red flags that I ignored back then, looking back now. He was very angry and distant with me all the time.

A lot of that anger and distance has came back. I have accepted responsibility for my actions-- while I was upset and not happy in my marriage, there was no excuse for me to go off and have an affair, and certainly no excuse for me to carry on the emotional part for nearly a year. I have spent a lot of time (and paper!) figuring out how I can better myself to make the marriage better. I have accepted that I can't change him or make him want to do the things that would make our marriage stronger. I have learned how to control my own anger, and become a stronger person.

Things are so messed up now, I'm not sure if I have much fight left in me or even want to save this anymore. I can't bear the responsibility for my mistakes and his. I feel beaten down, I feel worthless. Hubby tells me he can't buy me flowers anymore or do anything affectionate because he doesn't feel it for me. But he did that for his other woman. Sometimes he can be nice to me, but then he gets in these moods where he pushes me away, refuses to talk, and will disappear for hours on end. He avoids me most of the time anymore. (He's joined golf leagues and plans things with his work buddies most days after work anymore...)

Our anniversary is coming up in 2 months, and I planned a getaway for us over that weekend... but now I'm not even sure if we'll make it that long (I already paid for the plane tickets, etc). I don't know if I can save this alone-- or even keep fighting for it alone anymore. He wants nothing to do with me unless I have something to offer him-- like he needs me to show up at a office function or something so he doesn't look bad going without his wife. Even our sex life is non-existent. He has no interest in me.

Sorry, I said I was going to make this short, but I didn't... I just don't even know what to do anymore-- and once I start it all just comes pouring out.

What do you suggest?

Janie

This is a pretty broken situation and I don't know what real advice to give you.

He's obviously no healed over your infidelity and is EA appears to be a revenge affair.

Could he have cheated on his trips? Perhaps. But you have no solid proof, do you?

His EA was 2 years ago and it was a response to the pain you caused him. Unjustifiable on both sides.

So what to suggest?

I recommend writing him a letter. Apologize to him for the very deep pain you caused him. Own up to it. Recognize that he is obviously still hurt and angry over what you did and that you know it because of things he says.

Tell him how much you love him and tell him how much you want to restore your marriage and build a new one that is much better than the one you had.

Tell him you're willing to start over and forgive his wrongs and set aside the past.

I don't know what else to suggest to you other than that. I don't think your situation is hopeless and it seems like the two of you are not involved in any affairs right now.

Nevertheless, things are broken and you must heal your marriage because the wounds caused by your affair have festered on both sides.

Others will jump in with their two cents.

You have no kids, which is a big plus and one less set of victims to get caught in this crossfire.

You have your work cut out for you.

I wish you the best.

My suggestion would be to give him the emotional needs and lovebusters questionaires and see if he will fill them out. If not fill one out yourself as you think he would respond. It is often said that most marriages fail because each spouse was waiting for the other one to fix things. If you want a better marriage, you need to take the initiative yourself, not expect much at first, but slowly reap the fruits of your labor.


For most men, the path to a man's heart is not through his stomach, it's through another organ. How do you know he has no interest in you? Because he doesn't initiate? I was conditioned not to initiate with my wife because she always turned me down and I didn't like being rejected. Could that be the case with you? Why don't you try seducing him? Who cares if he rejected you the first few times? If there is one thing that I know, it is that ultimately, it is very hard for men to turn down sex. They can maybe do it once or twice, but if you repeatedly try to seduce him, he will eventually take the bait. And when he does, he will feel closer to you, and be more willing to meet your needs. You two conditioned yourselves into certain behaviors (likely from when he was gone all the time), and now you need to develop new habits and ways of dealing with each other. It will take time, but I am confident you can do it.

Thank you for your replies.

Pombd3- Funny you suggest I write him a letter. I actually DID write him a letter, back in December, saying almost verbatim what you suggested (from my own heart, of course). I hand wrote it, and took several days doing it... Didn't seem to affect him much-- he read it and it sat on a coffee table in the living room for weeks after he was done reading it before I took it myself. He never asked what happened to it or seemed to care, or even brought it up.

Jim- We do have a lot of bad habits from when he was out of town, and there are changes we both need to make.

I will try seducing him this weekend. I have tried, but he usually pushes me away, but admittedly, they have been half hearted attempts on my part. I promise I'll pull out all the stops and try once this weekend.

I'll try with the questionnaires too. I don't see him being too open to doing that right now, but I can ask. Pretty much he wants nothing to do with anything that might better our marriage.

I guess why I am so frustrated now-- and why I am here-- is because I feel like I have really taken the initiative, really bit down and got to the root of MY problems that contributed to the marriage, and did the hard work to change them (this took some counseling on my own. He refuses to go to marital counseling). At this point, some of the things that were "so hard" for me in the first place, are sort of second nature to me now. I feel like my changes have been taken advantage of though, and I feel like he hasn't changed at all (and has reverted back to the angry, mean person he was when he was out of town all the time) because he has "no reason" to. Is this where I should do plan B? What about the trip I planned for us in June (he knows about it).

He talks to me like we have this future, but then in the same sentence tells me "he's not sure what he wants or if he still loves me". But then in the same sentence will make plans with me to go see his parents in the Fall! He tells me over and over again that he's filing for divorce... at least once or twice a week he says that... although never does it. I just feel like at this point I'm being taken advantage of, and he's reaping the benefits of my changes, and making me feel guilty while doing none of the work himself.

He finds things to do outside of the house (without me) all the time anymore, and when he is home, he just works on his computer and is snappy and mean with me most of the time. Occasionally he can be nice... but usually it is shortlived and only after I go through extraordinary measures to "keep him happy". He'll be nice for an evening after I've exhausted myself doing all sorts of stuff for him or buying him something, or making him something. And then the next day it is like it never happened and it is right back ot him being mean and ignoring me. I feel like I have to be "superwife" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week or he gets mad at me anymore. I am not allowed to have feelings... if I tell him I am upset or angry over something (even without any love busters)-- he gets mad at me. Its like I'm not allowed to have feelings at all.

He makes promises and tells me he is going to do things that he never does. Or makes plans with me then cancels them for whatever random reason.

He's just so disrespectful and mean anymore. He's no different than what he was when he was out of town... its just now it is constantly in my face all the time, since he's here most of the time. For awhile, I saw glimpses of hope that he could change, but it seems now that he knows "he has me back"... that he's not interested in changing anymore.

Sorry this has turned into such a long rant. I just have a lot of pent up anger and resentment, and it is all coming out here.

Janie

Try as hard as you possibly can for six months without expecting much at all in return, and then reevaluate your situation. Changes for a week or two with expectations that it will ultimately change your spouse will only lead to disappointment, frustration, and resentment.

Also, when he does things to hurt you, instead of just taking it, tell him that you won't be treated like that, and walk away. He'll learn how to interact with you, and what he can no longer get away with.

I wonder how many BH in recovery could be helped a great deal if the FWW would simply try to seduce them?

Even if the BH didn't feel up to it at that moment, it would likely help him a great deal.

I'd probably cry tears of happiness if my FWW would willingly try, just because she wants to...with no hints or goading from me of any kind.


Maybe it should be a whole new topic.

Sorry to be graphic, but seduce him with oral sex. Just go for it if you get an easily accessible moment - like when he is using a towel to dry his hair. If he accepts it for a few minutes - your choice to finish it, invite him to the bedroom for more or just smile and walk away to tease him. Just my 2 cents.

Wow, this seems to be the way to go here...

When I was "fresh" at this, still had a lot of stamina in me... one day, I got home from work early, spread rose petals all over our bed, lit some candles... then put on make up, did my hair, and put on one of my skimpy lil' lingere pieces. And stilletos. And went down stairs and made dinner... and when he came in (he came in via the basement door into the kitchen) I was there, in my stilettos, lingere, and all made up... making him dinner. I figured that would be a man's fantasy. I told him that he just had to make it through dinner before the dessert. I was teasing... I half expected to not actually get to finish cooking dinner.

But... he really treated me no differently as if I was downstairs in sweats cooking dinner. He waited until after dinner, and even then, I had to initiate (which I did) and he wasn't that into it.

That was a huge discouragement. And now I guess anytime I think about really going all out, I think about how I was just outright rejected on that occasion. Later I asked him about it and he said "well, I was just tired".

I don't know too many men that would turn down some sex in that case... but mine did. Sigh.

Made me feel very unattractive (even though I am a good proportional height/weight, and am very active so I am very fit... I would say my look are above average... I don't think I'm the hottest thing out there, but I defintely think that if I paraded around in front of the average man in stilettos and lingere, they'd be turned on!).

Yeah, so I wish it would work. I guess now I've just lost steam. I've tried approaching this from all angles... and it just seems like they work... maybe for a little. But the next day... or even a few hours later... it is back to the same ol' same ol.

Gonna try the lingere again this weekend. We'll see how this goes!

Janie

I'll work some oral sex in there too!! I know he (used to) enjoy that a lot. I like the whole surprising him aspect.

I have been trying recently to "tease" him for later... ie, in the morning I'll "rub" him and make innuendoes about "later tonight". He just says "we'll see" as if I am asking him whether or not he wants spaghetti for dinner. I've heard the "I'm too tired" excuse more times in the past 6 months than I've ever heard it in the 8 years we've been together. He used to be an "anytime anywhere" kinda man. Used to joke around that 3x daily was the right amount of times to have sex. Well-- I'm LUCKY if I get it three times a month now. Sigh. And those are pretty lacking experiences.

Gonna really try to put it out of my mind and ramp it up a bit this weekend though!

Janie

Jim said: Also, when he does things to hurt you, instead of just taking it, tell him that you won't be treated like that, and walk away. He'll learn how to interact with you, and what he can no longer get away with.

(Dont know how to do quotes, sorry)

This is something I will try. I have tried it in the past, and it seems that sometime it works him up MORE when I won't put up with his stuff. And then later on, it somehow all becomes my fault because "I discount his feelings" (I don't discount his feelings... its just how he deals with them... screaming and yelling nasty things... nothing gets resolved that way, it just makes me feel like crap, and makes him more angry!).

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Janie

I had wondered about your appearance but did not want to ask. I mean if it needed improvement, a 'sexy' nighty isn't going to do much.

Is he depressed? How is his food appetite? Does he do anything activity-wise? Does he sleep enough / too much? He is not on medication that would explain this? That is the only thing I can think of other than him being involved with someone. Maybe he self-pleasures instead?

All that aside, if none of those explanations fit, keep trying. Use positive reinforcement when he does something right. If he won't or doesn't want to have sex, don't make a big deal about it but ask him for something pleasurable. Say "Fine, but at least give me a long sexy kiss". or "Well, can you scratch / rub my back a few minutes. I'll be glad to return the favor". or "Can you rub your fingers in my hair. That feels really good."

For something really desperate - Again I hate to be graphic, but if worst comes to worst tell him you have needs whether he meets them or not and do to yourself in his presence what will meet those needs. And don't keep it quiet. Do it after the lights are out for a few minutes so he is less likely to just leave the room. This will maybe shame him into meeting his responsibilities and maybe spark some interest. Who knows? Hope this one doesn't offend anyone.

Just say in a calm but firm voice, "Listen, I understand that you are upset, frustrated, etc., and I am not trying to discount your feelings, but I'm not going to be treated this way because it hurts me. If you want to talk about your feelings, I would appreciate to do it in a way that does not hurt me." Just be calm and firm and do not let allow him to provoke you into an escalating argument. Just detach yourself from the situation, be firm and calm, and your husband will take notice. It's just like a child, when you no longer react to them throwing a fit, they will stop throwing them.

Yeah, I really don't think it is my appearance. I'm 5'4 and 120 lbs-- and I run about 20 miles a week and play on a softball team, so I'm pretty lean. Long hair.. (hubby likes long hair-- although tends to prefer blondes, and my hair is just about jet black, so there's no way its getting blonde without looking ridiculous on me...).

Anyways, I feel like I'm writing a personal ad now.. haha.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am "pleasuring" myself in front of him... I was thinking I might be a little more comfortable trying something like that in the shower, when he's in ear shot or something. I dunno... I am not exactly a prude, but that is pushing it a little even for me... but I'll keep it in the back of my mind as a card I can pull if I get really desperate.

Lets see... he's gained a bit of weight recently, and I know he's unhappy about that. His pants fit really tightly on him. He's still proportional though... about 6'2 and 195 lbs. He goes to the gym too, although isn't as active as I am.

He's not on any medicine. He sleeps quite a bit anymore, more than he used to. On the weekends about 10 hours, on the week days, there's been several days where I left for work and he's not even out of bed yet. (even tho he got in trouble for being late to work consistently a few weeks ago).

Usually anymore if I "ask" for anything, anything at all-- not even in bed-- it turns into something he DOESN'T give me, on purpose, just to make a point. If I ask him to cuddle me, he will say no, or make up an excuse. If I tell him that something would mean something to me, he doesn't do it because "he doesn't feel it". Or he does it, but makes it BLATANTLY apparent he really didn't want to and has no interest in doing it.

Why are men so difficult?!?!

Janie

Sorry to any blondes out there, but dark hair is where it is at. My wife was a dishwater blonde in college, but it turned dark after her first child and I love it.

From your description it sounds highly unlikely a normal man would turn down the display you gave regardless of his feelings for you. You're there, you look good, you're ready, it's legitimate. Men don't get hung up on whether they have feelings or not. It's the feelings below the belt that matter. There is something wrong with him. The extra sleep and being late for work tell me he is at least mildly depressed. Maybe go to the health store and get some natural remedies. Ask them, but maybe at least vitamin B complex and some St. John's wart?

As for his lame "he doesn't feel it", tell him you are the one that wants the pleasure and he doesn't have to feel it. If you were dying of thirst and asked him to get you some water, would he wonder if he was having feelings for you? Tell him you have needs that are the same as being thirsty or hungry and there is no harm in him meeting them. The incredible selfishness again leads me to the depression or an OW.

If he isn't having an A with an OW and not depressed, then I think he is having an A with himself and maybe it is time for a good Plan B to address that. Ok, that was an emotional outburst on my part. I don't want to give you bad advice but your H seems to be a tough nut to crack.

No offense meant, but just a word of caution. It can become dangerous territory to trade sexual advice in mixed company. Even well-meaning counsel can become a breeding ground for blurred boundary lines.

keepitreal,

Point well taken. I was not completely comfortable bringing these things up, but given the fact we are on an infidelity board where sexual reference is a foundation to the concept, I felt a further sexual reference would not matter. I tried to be as least graphic as possible. Thanks for the concern. I will consider it in future writing.

Agreed. I think we'd better keep it at a less explicit level from now on. Sorry everyone, I'm new.

Last night hubby freaked out again, and wrote me this note on the kitchen counter about 'how I would make a wonderful wife to someone else, and he wishes that it could have been him, that we could have met later, blah blah blah... and ended it with "love and regrets". He's so melodramatic. This is the kind of stuff that I get from him all the time.

And-- without getting to explicit, I did try to seduce him. And-- I got pushed away once (which made me cry... I can't handle the constant rejection anymore-- to which he got angry with me and started yelling at me...). The other time we did end up having sex, but he was not really into it. I'm really at a loss here.

He told me last night (again) that he "just doesn't feel the same way" about me anymore. And that it can never get back to the way it used to be. He says he can't change anything himself. And he claimed that he talked to some online counselor... that was "free" twice... but I don't believe him. What kind of counselor do you find on the internet that is free? That sounds shady to me. And when I asked more questions about it, he got all angry and stopped answering my questions.

We used to have this stupid little game we'd play where we'd "fight" over who loved who more. Someone would say "I love you" and then the other would say "Love you MORE!" etc, etc... it was a stupid little game. And last night, after he got really upset and was mad at me he went and locked himself in the guest bedroom to go to bed. I let him go for awhile, then unlocked the door with a hanger and went in and laid down with him. I told him "I can't do this without you, and you can't do this without me". He said "I don't need your help". I just responded "I still love you"... he said he loved me too, I said I loved him more... starting the game. He said back to me "probably". Ouch. Then I started crying in bed again. And then he (very angrily) said to me "are you just going to cry all night long and keep me up?".

Why does he do this? He hurts my feelings so bad... and on purpose.

This morning I got up and packed his lunch and got his coffee ready, etc. I packed a hardboiled egg as part of his lunch, and on the egg shell, I wrote "I (heart) you".

I don't understand why he acts this way. It seems that anytime I start to "withdraw" though, he is all nice for a day or two... until I come back out of my shell, then he goes back to this monster. I don't know what happened to my husband. This isn't him though. He says that the old him "died" and that I killed him, that this is who he is now. He's so inconsiderate and mean and self-centered.

I'd really like some opinions on what I should do. This has been going on (and getting worse, not better-- probably about 6 months ago, he told me he would "try" and was my old husband for a few days... until I found a weird message on our computer from a girl... I don't know what it was, and he denied it all, said he didn't know who it was... but when I asked him about it he flipped out and then decided he couldn't "try" anymore). I feel like I'm being manipulated.

What should I do? I know I am supposed to "try" with no expectations for awhile. I have been working on myself and doing the things I know he appreciates. But-- while I don't expect anything in return, is it wrong to expect to be treated with decency and respect? He says he can treat me however he wants because "he doesn't know if he wants the marriage or not". He flips out and says mean things-- and I feel like he says them just to break my heart. I am so tired of feeling punished when he's had an affair and does his share of damage too. Why do I get punished and he gets off scot free?

So what do I do? My birthday is coming up soon... although, nice enough, my brother-in-law (my hubby's brother) planned his wedding... on my birthday. So that will overshadow my birthday, I'm sure, and give hubby an excuse for not doing anything for my birthday. He already made a comment about me not expecting anything for it so I won't be disappointed when I said I was kinda upset that his brother's wedding was on my birthday (it is an out of town wedding that will require travel...).

And our anniversary is coming up soon. I planned a "mystery vacation" for us for our anniversary. I just told him he had to call off work... and I took care of the plans. But I don't even WANT to go on vacation with this man that kidnapped my husband.

Half of me thinks I should go plan B (I've been doing this plan A stuff since September... really solidly since December)... and just tell him if he wants vacation, etc, that he's going to have to commit to the marriage and stop the destructiveness. Half of me thinks I should maintain my plan A until after the vacation, re-evaluate and then go plan B if nothing has changed then. I've already paid for this vacation so if I go plan B and he backs out... well, I'm out about 3K. I guess I could go alone, but that's not really the point...

Part of me thinks he's just being so destructive to get me to leave because he doesn't have the b*lls to leave himself, and he wants me to leave so he can blame it all on me.

If I could get some opinions on what I should do about all of this... I'd really appreciate it.

Janie

Oh-- and what does the little magnifying glass next to my thread mean? Anyone? No one else's seems to have that. Everyone else's seems to have flames or nothing at all-- mine is the only one I see that has a magnifying glass...

Janie

Janie - Was your husband a good husband BEFORE your affair, or were there lots of problems then? It just seems strange to me that he could change so completely.

Hi Believer-

Before my affair, he was emotionally neglectful, I'd say. He worked in a different city than I lived in, so he wasn't in the same city from Monday to Friday. The reason we didn't just move is because it was 3 different cities he worked out of... all in a 4 hour radius, so even moving to one of those other cities would mean that he would still have 2 other "out of town" cities to go to. He is a corporate auditor, so his clients were in those three cities (one being ours).

He would frequently "disappear" even though he knew it bothered me. There would sometimes be days at a time I wouldn't hear from him and he wouldn't answer his phone if I called. He claimed he was "too busy". I said if he had time to pee and eat during the day, he could have called his wife for a lousy 5 minutes to just say hi and "I love you". Now, he claims the main reason he didn't want to talk to me while he was out of town was because I always yelled at him and nagged him. This is a new one, that he just started claiming in the past few months.

Now, I will admit that I had my fair share of communication problems... I've gone to great lengths to address how I communicate with him and not get angry and yell anymore. And I think he's exaggerating a bit when he says the reason he never called was because I would always yell at him.

When he was home on the weekends, he could be really sweet, or he could be a jerk. It was like living with Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. But, the thing was, when the "bad" one would come out, most of the time he'd at least apologize later and recognize that he was not right in saying or doing what he had done or said. Now he just says I deserve it. And it is worse than before too.

Once I told him about the other guy-- he did a 180 on me, and became the man that I always wanted-- but that didn't last long. He would for a bit, then he'd lose it and scream and yell nasty things at me again. And then he had his affair. But all this time he was telling everyone how much he was "fighting for our marriage".

So, I guess that is a long answer. The point is, he can be a good man. But before all of this, I guess he wasn't a "model" husband either. I would say he was emotionally neglectful, at best. For example, once I was in a car accident, and I called him (he was in the other city). He asked if I was OK-- I said I was, other than a few bruises and a cut from the seatbelt. He asked if the car was OK-- I said no (it was totaled..., it was pretty bad-- the entire back of it was smashed in, I was rear-ended). That was the first accident I'd ever been in-- so I didn't really "know" what to do. Well once he found out I was OK, he got annoyed that I had called him, said call the police and the insurance company-- and said verbatim (I'll never forget these words or how much they stung at the time) "Well, what do you want me to do about it?! I have to get back to a meeting" He sounded ANNOYED that I even called him to tell him that. I figured that he could at least talk to me for five minutes (I was pretty shaken up)-- and that if he went back into the meeting and told them that his wife was just in a bad car accident-- that they should understand! But he was just annoyed.

And he used to admit that that was wrong, that what he did in instances like that was wrong-- before when this all first started and he went through his 180. But it was like everytime I started to trust him again, he'd freak out again or I'd catch him lying again or something.... (that's the other thing... I've caught him lying a lot in our marriage, about a host of things... both before and after all of this...but it seems now that he has no problems whatsoever lying to cover his own [censored]...)

Sorry for such a long answer to a short question. I just have so much pent up... and no real release for it that once i get started, it all comes tumbling out....

Janie