Hello. I'm new here, but my wife and I have been going along with the Harley's books for a little while now. Please forgive me for the length, but I need your help.

For background, My wife and I have been married for 8.5 years, and have two children. We had a good marriage, or so I thought, until about two years ago. My wife got increasingly short-tempered after the birth of our second child. Her family and I talked about it, because everyone thought I was the dream husband, yet she was so angry at all of us. We couldn't figure it out, and she wouldn't talk about it. She really changed after children. I was working and taking care of the kids and the house, and she still wasn't satisfied. She wouldn't let me meet her needs. She wasn't angry at me for anything specific, just everything.

The facts as I now know them. She started liking a fellow at work shortly after going back to work from our second child in 4-06, but never acted on it at all until 11-06. By 12-06 they kissed, and 2-07 had sex. In our bed. With my BC. On the one day of the year I was out of town. Only once, because he was afraid I would catch them if I was in town. 7-07 she called me and went through the typical fog speech. Want to see other people. Maybe we need some time apart. If it weren't for the kids. The whole thing. I told her I wasn't leaving, and that there was no reason for our marriage to fail. She admitted that there was an OM, but denied sex. When she couldn't really come up with anything bad about our marriage, I told her she was being selfish and that she needed to reconsider. The only thing she could say was that the spark was gone and that we were more like roommates. (I admit our RC was lacking, but we lived in the middle of nowhere and worked opposite shifts. She was always too tired to go out with me, even when I accommodated her schedule. We even moved to get closer to town, but she started going out with the OM at that time, instead of me. Now it is great because we moved away and spend a lot of time together.) I didn't get angry , but I told her that she had to make a decision within a short period of time. She promised to give us another chance. The next day they went out, but she saw him in a different light. After I caught her lying to me about talking to him a couple of times, she really did break it off, and has been faithful since. I keep very close track of her, and she isn't doing anything.

We have read several books, and she has told me everything. She denied sex until 3-08 when I told her I knew in my heart that she had, at which time she admitted. She was glad to reveal and remove the last deception, and has been extremely honest and open since. She loves me, and wants to make things right. She really is trying, and is a totally different person since the breakup. He didn't treat her well, and would stand her up all the time. That made her try harder to get him. Reading the MB books has helped us a lot, especially her. We are really on our way to recovery. I have told her emphatically that if she ever did it again she would lose everything. She knows, and really does regret what happened.

Here is the problem. I still have a hard time putting the sex with OM away. I know she was not herself exactly, but it is still hard. When we are together, it is spectacular. When she is at work on weekends at night, I can hardly stand it. That is going to end very shortly, as she is going back to school near our new home, but it is still hard now. I think about them when I least expect it, and it haunts me. Sometimes I think that I would love to be finished with her and move on after what has happened. I can't bring myself to do that to our children, and I really do love her. If there was another A, I would expose everything and leave with the kids. However, she really is working at being a great wife and we are meeting our EN's very well. The ONLY thing is me getting over the A.

Can anyone give me any advice or insight. I really appreciate the help that the Harleys have been, and am thankful for what I have read on this board over the last few months. Thanks.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. What you are experiencing are triggers that make you think of the affair, and your wife and OM together. Everyone goes through them, although that doesn't make it any easier.

You are very new in this and it will get better in time.

I'm so glad to see that you are standing for your marriage and children. Hang in there.

Marc,

You have definitely found the right place. Everyone here as been in the same position as you, me included. The veterans here are going to give you great advice on what to do about those triggers and what you need to do about your M.

Keep on coming back here and sharing more information. This is the best place you can be right now. You will learn a lot about how to cope with the worst thing that has ever happened to you.

I don't know, however, that you will ever "forget". The forgiving can happen if she is transparent and is truly repentant. I'm not sure if I will ever truly forget, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to.

Recovery takes two years on average.

It is hard to say about triggers. What wouldn't be a trigger? The telephone I bought her was used to call and text him daily. She kept it with her every moment of her life waiting for him. When she leaves for work, it is tough. She still works the same place, but they no longer work the same shift. When we have sex in our bed with my BC, he comes to mind. When I sit on the couch they made out on... It isn't really so much those things, they are just some thoughts. It is everything. They were behaving like they were dating or married, and she lied about what she was doing for a long time. I recall times that I talked to her and she told me what she was doing, that were total lies. I talked to her several times the day she had sex with him. They were doing their thing within a five mile radius of where I worked, which includes our house. I guess there are just a lot of memories to get past. It is better now that we have moved away, but it is still hard. I may just be driving around town, or sitting at home, or anything random, and BAM!!! there it is. Thanks for the reply.

Welcome! Well you are ahead of most newbies since your FWW is remorseful and you are working the Harley plan. Good for both of you! Since you just recently found about the truth about the PA part of the affair, you just had yourself another Dday (discovery day). Give yourself a break. You need time to turn off the movies in your head about them together. In the meantime, can you buy a new bed and a new couch?

I second this. I literally threw the couch into the front yard, and paid to have it hauled away.

Luckily we were able to get new furniture, but I was ready to sit on the floor if necessary.

Ok, I give up - what's a "BC"?

Concerning the "triggers", they will fade at time. And BTW, my FWW had SF with the OM for the first time in our bed too. And less than a week after getting a new wedding ring from me to replace the one she lost. They also had SF on our couches, one of which used to be in our bedroom - until she let me know what it was used for. We kept the bed though. Every now and then I'm still triggered by the thought of what they did, or what they might have done, on our bed.

The triggers will fade, but getting rid of the reminders will make them fade a bit faster.

Marc, sorry you are here, friend, but you are in the right place. There is hope.

You should have a hard time putting that away. That was a devastating blow that will not go away over night. You have to HEAL. And your wound is FRESH. You are looking at 18+ months. Not only is the wound fresh, but it was compounded by years of lying.


Well yes, it was HER. And she needs to accept that. If that wasn't HER, then it won't HER who fixes the problems that led to this. She must take accountability for her actions in order to repair the damage.


Here is the thing, Marc, the conditions that led to the affair have to CHANGE to ensure this doesn't happen again. That means not working different shifts again and not putting yourselves in situations that make you vulnerable to an affair.

It will be important to learn to meet each others needs and spend 15 hours a week - just the two of you - meeting each others needs. That is what it will take to recover.

And most importantly, she should never EVER have contact with that OM for life. Is she willing to do that?

And will she come here and post to us?

p.s. burn that stinking, filthy bed. Go buy another bed even if you have to finance it.

Wow, thanks everyone for the great replies. First, I know that my wife was "herself", but she wasn't really herself. After DD #2, we have done a lot more talking and she admitted herself and to me where a lot of the problems came from. Her father, who she was extremely close to, died about five years ago. He and I were very much alike, and that was great for both her and I. He died horribly, and we were there with him. She emotionally distanced herself from everyone after that. It was slow, but she eventually built walls that shielded her from all of us, including the children. She was terrified that she would go through that pain again, and it was made worse by how much he and I were alike. That is absolutely not an excuse, because it was a bad decision on her part, but it does give you insight as to how important it is to deal with emotional issues before they blow up in your face. She is totally accepting responsibility for what happened, and can't believe that she would do something so selfish and uncaring. She wouldn't allow me to meet the needs I was trying so hard to meet, so she eventually found another source for a few of them to be met.

She is a changed woman now. She is back to the woman I married and enjoyed for the first four years of our marriage. She is quitting work next month to start school where we live now, and will be in school during the day and home in the evenings. I can tell you for a fact that if you are on a different shift or working different days than your spouse, you are asking for trouble. She is done with the OM, and has no interest in him anymore. He really had very little interest in her the whole time they were together, and she really told me about him as a cry for help. She really wanted out, but couldn't give him up by herself. She finally told me after he skipped out on a special date, and was desperate to be done with what had become an addiction.

Thanks again, and I really appreciate everything.

Oh, BTW, BC=birth control...

After putting it off for several days due to a lot of commitments and circumstances, last night I had a talk with FWW. She wasn't excited to think about it again, as she wants it to be over and done with. Pretty normal. She wants to help me, though. She answered my questions, despite the fact that the answers weren't fun to hear. I just had to clear up a few details... She feels really stupid for the whole thing, but especially for the SF. She even felt like it was a mistake during...I appreciate that, but it still didn't get me more than a couple of hours of sleep last night. I suppose I am pretty thankful he treated her like last week's trash from the start and isn't good looking and smokes, or we might not be having this conversation.

Anyway, I told her that I loved her, but that if it wasn't for the kids I would be a lot less inclined to make it work right now. The kids are amazing, and I just can't imagine doing that to them. If there was ever another A, it would be exposed and instant Plan D. I hope and pray that never happens. I think that the whole family deserves a chance to try to recover. I really think we will recover, but I think the shock has finally worn off and I am having to begin dealing with the emotional and psychological fallout from the A nuke. I think that's probably why I have been so much more negative and hurt lately. It is very nice that she is trying to help, even though I don't believe she really understands how hard it is, yet.

I am really thinking about doing some sessions with the Harley's, but I'm going to have to take a very close look at the finances, first. I am not working right now since we moved, with remodeling and taking care of the kids. She is going to be starting school soon, so I am going to have to start working again very shortly. Parenthetically, I still believe that if the whole truth were known, the reason for the business I ran being sold was due to issues that revolved around her behaviour during the A. I haven't told her that because I don't have any real proof, but I think the family responsibilities I was having to bear were a real influence in the absentee owner's decision. I just think that I, and probably we, need to talk to someone who has our best interests at heart and actually can provide good advice. It really is amazing how much bad marital advice there is out there, isn't it?

For those of you who have used the Harley's, how did things work out, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks.

I talked to my wife about how I am having a harder time with resentment right now than I have before. We had a open and honest set of conversations over the past two days, and it really helped. She finally opened up about some issues we had in our marriage that she never rationally talked about before. I remember her yelling about them before, but I never actually heard them over the anger and judgment. You sure can resolve a lot in a short period of time when both parties are rational! I actually screwed up with the same issue yesterday and she called me on it. It is vital that both parties communicate the way the Harley's advocate. I have been, being that I have communications education, but she always had anger an yelling issues, as that is what her parents modeled for her.

What I am seeing is that a lot of the problems on her side revolve around her asking me to do something while I am in the middle of something else that we both agree is important and what I should be doing. She will mention something she wants done, and I will acknowledge her, and then may or may not do it. She saw it as procrastination, and to some degree it may well have been, but we both agree that it isn't intentional. It revolves around my being overwhelmed with to do's. We agreed that both of us needed to work on it, because she is really bad about mentioning something once in passing or incompletely while I am doing something that requires concentration or when I am very busy working. She will never mention it again until she blows up about it not being done. We are both going to take several steps to resolve that issue.

I also talked to her about her lack of desire to deal with the kids and home. She generally expects me to take care of them. During the A, she was having me take them to and pick them up from the babysitter on her days off. That was always an issue with me, and helped bring things to a head with her fessing up. I also cook, clean, and do the laundry. Don't get me wrong, she does an amazing job when she does something, but I do the regular daily grunt work. I was doing it after coming home from work. She would get overwhelmed with life and work that needed doing, and would find a way to avoid starting a task. Then she would spend a tremendous amount of time doing everything perfect, and would be angry at the world for some time. We had a real problem with our perception of the division of labour in our home. We are working on that now. It didn't matter to her that I worked from daylight to dark at work and home, doing the vast majority of the child care and cleaning, and all of the cooking. She only worked three days a week. I was getting bitter over her input. It got even worse during her A. If the job wasn't up to her standard, in her mind it was never done. I suppose that is what happens when you are involved in quality control and had a very critical father. Anyway, she has been a lot better about giving me credit for what I do lately, and is helping more around the house so that I can do a better job on any given task. I think now that she is not trying to be critical of me in order to distance herself emotionally, she is really transforming. She is much more like she was prior to her father's death. The positive reinforcement she now gives is very helpful to me.

Anyway, I just wanted to provide an update for anyone who might be interested, and am hopeful for a good recovery over time, despite the pain that has been brought into our M.

Thanks for reading and posting.

I probably need to change the title of this thread, and may need to move it. I'll figure that out.