Mimi my H is the ONLY person i have ever been with sexually anyway and since i have been with him (started dating when i was 18) i have ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY never been alone with a man in any kind of setting, I have NEVER put myself in a situation where i could have had anyone else meet my EN (and i mean NEVER). I do not think it is that hard of a thing to do and i expected it from my H and he knew that i expected it for him but he chose to do it anyway so why should i be the butt kisser so to speak.

Read my post before yours...

Don't make assumptions about ALL situations...

My H had a ROMANTIC AFFAIR which MAY be different than a man sleeping with HOOKERS...

Hi Krazy !


I completely agree with you. However, that instinctive and, perhaps even JUST approach is not well indicated to recover a marriage from an affair.

Many / most WS fear eating cr[i][/i]ap sandwiches every day for the rest of their lives and the BS who wants to recover needs to create a CULTURE of non-judgmentalism if the WS is to earn their "F" and work on the M.

No it isn't fair, yes it feels unjust but it is proven to be the most effective approach to recovery.

That old saying is very true " do you want to be right or do you want to be married ?".

Also many many WS when they earn their "F" are devastated at their previous actions and no words or punishment from the BS can match the screaming guilt in their waking dreams.

If the FWS gets fully on board , the BS can look forward to a much improved marriage which surely is more satisfying than going spider monkey on them for cheating ?

Yes, once the decision to attempt R has been made, meaning the A is over, NC is established, and the BS's conditions have been met, yes, I agree then the WS needs to be willing to jump and jump high!

Before that time though, a BS who expects an actively WS to "get" anything is fooling themselves. You see I refer directly to Plan A in my tirade! Plan A is NOT recovery, it is a tactic to GET TO recovery. Sitting around blaming the WS and expecting anything from them when one should be in Plan A is counter productive, that is my point. And I know all BS' go through that, I just didn't want new BS's to come read this and get sucked into sulking instead of DOING something! That's all.

WSTBXH told me he didn't enjoy SF with me and wasn't attracted to me as part of why he had the A. The thing is, it was true (probably one of the few truths he has spoken). Our sex life was boring and infrequent and hadn't changed in years. Upon disection of the M, I have come to realize my part in this. It isn't anything new or unheard of. Just gradually, over time, instead of being affectionate all the time, it was only when he wanted SF. So I began to resent it a little and, rather than communicate my issue with him, resisted affection as well. Eventually we had very little affection (my top EN) and very little SF (his top EN). I became aware of it at some point long before I discovered the A, but by this time it was difficult to talk to him about it. Had I known MB then, things might have turned out much differently.

Now the difference between me and him - I resigned myself to living life without the affection that I wanted and cherishing those moments when he did give it. He went looking for his needs outside of the M. It never, ever occurred to me to fulfil this EN anywhere else.

I can't explain it any better to you guys...

I wish you the best...

I can't relate to your viewpoints...

I AM DEFINITELY NOT A BUTT KISSER...

I LOVE MY HUSBAND and meet his needs 'cause I LOVE HIM...

I don't call it being a BUTT KISSER...

IT'S WHAT I DO...

I'M THANKFUL TO HAVE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY...

From the outside looking in, I'd say that if he loved you so much, why didn't he talk to you? Suggest counseling? Suggest divorce?

I really, really love(d) my W. I would never have cheated on her no matter what. No amount of rejection would've made me flirt, proposition, and get get naked with someone else. Ever. Buyer, renter, homeless, whatever.

It seems like you are on the verge of taking the blame for your H's decision to have an A.

I'm sure many will disagree, but in my opinion if you have an A, you don't care about your family or your marriage enough. No exceptions.

HIS WEAKNESS..like I said before..HE TOOK THE COWARDLY WAY OUT...

Ah Mimi this is where your perception is wrong, i did not say i wasn't trying to meet his EN because i am, i have never stopped even during the A, that is what makes me happy is to be a good wife and mother, that is TRULY what i LIVE for (as i have said on the Goddess thread).

I am just not going to take the blame for him chosing to have an A, i just refuse. And i am not going to try to change myself anymore because of his weakness. It is HIS weakness not mine.

There are many that decide to divorce after an A. It is a perfectly reasonable action to take imo.

Do you know that Harley says that the person most likely to have an A is the person who says:

"I would never have cheated on her no matter what. No amount of rejection would've made me flirt, proposition, and get get naked with someone else."

Just thought that was worth noting.

The fact is that WS's have failed. They have failed thier spouse, thier family's, and themselves.

The fact that this board exists illustrates just how common this failure is among people.

I don't think mimi is taking responsibility for her H's A. Not at all. She is however taking responsibility for the problems within her marriage that made an A possible. That doesn't justify or excuse the A. If you are saying that nothing can justify the decision to have an A, then yes, you are right. But recognizing that doesn't solve any problems does it? Because despite valid justifications, affairs HAPPEN. And when they do, you better figure out what is wrong in your MARRIAGE. Not just what is wrong with WS, but what is wrong with the whole dynamic. Treating the WS as the sole problem is going to get you right back into another A.

I totally relate to this. I realized that there were flat spots in our relationship, but it NEVER occurred to me that I would step outside of our marriage to have that need fulfilled. I wanted to feel cherished and he just didn't do it for me. But, I felt that was a small price to pay considering the rest seemed great. Hmmm...me thinks I was wrong. Anyway, now I realize it's just not so. I deserve to be cherished and I will be, no matter how hard it is for him. He'll say things about how he was never that way before and I quickly remind him that the recovery process is about stepping Outside of your comfort zone and creating a new US, not resusitating the old US.

I disagree. Mimi is taking the responsibility for her part of the recovery efforts that will hopefully end in a recovered marriage, with God as the central focus, not "me" as the central focus.

Not all affairs are a result of a BS who "did something wrong," and none of them are a result of anything other than the WS CHOOSING adultery as the "way" to address their perceived problems with the marriage.

But in many cases, the BS "contributed to the maritial atmosphere" that led a WS to "consider" getting perceived needs met outside of the marriage. Addressing those issues IS the responsibility of the BS as part of "their part" of the recovery efforts. BOTH spouses need to make needed changes that will enhance the marriage and the growth and maintenance of love between them.

jmho.

I DO NOT ACCEPT THE BLAME FOR MY H'S DECISION TO HAVE AN AFFAIR and I've come to definitely think of it as a DECISION that HE MADE.

I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for MY PART in the PROBLEMS in OUR MARRIAGE at THAT TIME.

We had MANY EARLIER YEARS of HAVING a GOOD ENOUGH if not GREAT MARRIAGE.

My HUSBAND WAS MOST DEFINITELY VERY MUCH IN LOVE WITH ME...for MANY YEARS prior to his AFFAIR of TWO YEARS...

HE CHOSE to PLAY AROUND with A YOUNG WOMAN as an escape, as an answer for HIS PROBLEMS...it was due to HIS WEAKNESS, his FLAWS in CHARACTER or WHATEVER...I DO NOT OWN WHAT'S HIS....I have told him so and still talk about it occasionally/very seldom..IT'S HIS JUNK..not MINE...

I own MY OWN PART in OUR MARITAL destruction at THAT TIME...

After nearly 2 years of this infidelity-related nonsense, I've come to one conclusion that works for me...it's not for everyone.

I simply do not buy that the BS could do anything to "set the stage" for an A. I've seen and read about too many instances where a WS in a GOOD MARRIAGE went ahead and cheated...for the fun of it, no doubt.

To me, it doesn't matter how bad the marriage is, or what the BS has or hasn't done. If NOTHING justifies an A, that means the conditions in the marriage prior to the A are also a moot point.



It reminds me of a morbidly obese person filing a lawsuit against McDonald's for making them fat. Sure, McDonald's prepares fattening, unhealthy food. Sure, it's cheap. Maybe it's the only eatery for miles, and you're short on time.

The bottom line is that you choose to eat that crap or not. There is no acceptable excuse. Go hungry if you must, but don't gorge yourself on the stuff for years on end, then whine about the way McDonald's prepares its food, or how they could've offered more healthy menu items.

You made yourself fat. It is 100% your fault. Period. McDonald's should share none of the blame. They never claimed to be a health food store, and you knew what you were doing when you chose that slop. You made yourself a human slug, not Mickey D's. It doesn't matter that they set the table. YOU shoveled it into your cakehole like there was no tomorrow.



I understand that any problems the BS was a part of should be fixed in order to have a better marriage, but I see that as completely separate from A-related issues...because nothing justifies an A, and any WS who doesn't learn the first time is simply being an [censored] at that point. They know what not to do, and do it anyway.

I'm using Fiori's post to make a point..notice the word "ME" in "it never occurred to ME"..

The point is: YOU are not your SPOUSE...because it never occurred to YOU doesn't mean that it hasn't occurred to THEM..

I've really struggled over the past 4 YEARS and more of RECOVERY to try to come to really UNDERSTAND my HUSBAND. Who HE is..not whom I need for HIM to be...or not from MY OWN UNDERSTANDING of HIM or MANHOOD..notice the books in the other thread about MANHOOD that I've read...about what it means to be a HUSBAND vs. being a WIFE..being a MAN vs. being a WOMAN...being a FATHER vs. being a MOTHER..DIFFERENCES..we can't come out of our OWN PERSPECTIVE in order to get a FULL, DEEP UNDERSTANDING of OUR SPOUSE, IMO...

I was so CLUELESS before about WHO HE REALLY WAS...

That's MY STORY, though..not saying that it is necessarily TRUE for anyone else...

You know Mimi...you do seem to have achieved 'fabulocity'. Does your H appreciate this?

I fully agree with this. This is something I have learned from MB. BUT, very few marriages are problem free. Whatever issues are going on in the M are due to both spouses to some extent or another. This is true for happy marriages, broken marriages, recovered marriages - heck, even arranged marriages. But there is no marital problem for which the solution is infidelity. The responsibility for that lies with the WS alone.

I don't believe anybody is taking responsibility for their WS's A at all here. MB is about more than just support for BS's, it's about building a strong marriage whether infidelity enters into it or not.

(disclaimer - I'm not one to talk since my M did fail but I'm here learning now so I don't repeat the same mistakes in the future)

I am AMAZED almost DAILY at how much he LOVES me...

Do you know the story about how he traveled hours to pick me up after I wrecked my car...hit a dog..will never live that one down around here...

Today I've been trying to convince him that I DO NOT NEED A NEW CAR!

He's WORRIED about me driving the car that's been wrecked.

Well i did and still do make a point of trying to KNOW my husband, he would tell you that i know him better than he knows himself.

When i said that SF was an issue of his i knew this too, it was an issue with me as well because i could not get him to understand that his "perceived" issue of our SF problem was just that "PERCEIVED". I had a lot of female problems and had to have a complete hysterectomy at age 31. When this happened my hormone levels plummeted and i had vaginal dryness, due to the dryness my H believed that i no longer desired him. No matter how much i told him that was not the case he would not believe me. How is this my fault in any way?

When we had a family member living with us (for three years ind you), i asked him every day to have this person leave our house because i did not want to be around this person therefore i will not be around you because you are with this person (MY family member, not HIS). Once again, how is this MY fault in any way?

I am and always have been a giver and i know that this board does not think you should be a giver, but i REALLY love my giver, it is what makes ME happy.

Still:

I do not think your H's affair was YOUR FAULT nor do I think my H's affair was MY FAULT.

You did have PROBLEMS in YOUR MARRIAGE, though.

NO MARRIAGE IS PERFECT.

You can not be a PERFECT WIFE.

Yes, HE CHOSE to deal with whatever HIS ISSUES were by having AN AFFAIR...rather than TALKING to you or going to COUNSELING or whatever...

But KNOWING what you KNOW now about the importance of the SF NEED for most men..would YOU have done anything differently?

What could YOU have done?

NOT that this would have kept HIM from having an affair..

BUT what could YOU have done to remedy this particular MARITAL PROBLEM...